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Post by jlenwood on Mar 17, 2015 5:28:27 GMT -6
Chris Borland has decided to retire from the NFL at the age of 24 due to concussion concerns. While I don't think it will have any immediate impact on the NFL and what the fans think of it, I can see a lot of parents now using this as another mark against their kid playing youth or HS ball. Anyone else think this, and if so what is your plan to address the fears of parents when they bring this up. link
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dman54
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Post by dman54 on Mar 17, 2015 5:48:52 GMT -6
IMHO, get the example from rugby. They don't tackle with the same intensity, of course, but they don't use any kind of protection too, and still almost don't have concussion issues. I seriously believe that the problem is with the techinque of tackle. I can't believe in a technique that puts your head in the middle of the hit! My point is, the next step to safety of players is teaching the rubgy tackle. coachhuey.com/thread/68140/opinions-seahawks-tackling-rugby-style?page=1&scrollTo=695965
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Post by agap on Mar 17, 2015 7:10:59 GMT -6
I'll tell them everyone should think more like Bobby Wagner. And I would tell them that Borland had two concussions: one in football and one in soccer, so they're son won't necessarily be safer playing other sports.
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dman54
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Post by dman54 on Mar 17, 2015 8:32:03 GMT -6
I'll tell them everyone should think more like Bobby Wagner. And I would tell them that Borland had two concussions: one in football and one in soccer, so they're son won't necessarily be safer playing other sports. Right on agap. I guess some people are more sensitive to concussions too. MMA figthers get hit way more in the head (knees and elbows to the head make huge damage) and don't have all this concussions. Boxing in other way are a lot more dangerous, because they get hit 10x more, because the gloves absorbs the superficial hits, but not the inside shake of the brain. But all of this is crap. Every sport in the world has its dangerous parts. I have seen it happen in soccer before, Goalkeepers hitting the head in the goal post, players head to head, etc. Have seen it in handball (european), Elbows to the head, fists to the head, etc. Man, even in tennis!!! A ball going that fast to the head is a obviously concussion probability. And this could go on and on....
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Post by fantom on Mar 17, 2015 8:35:09 GMT -6
Chris Borland has decided to retire from the NFL at the age of 24 due to concussion concerns. While I don't think it will have any immediate impact on the NFL and what the fans think of it, I can see a lot of parents now using this as another mark against their kid playing youth or HS ball. Anyone else think this, and if so what is your plan to address the fears of parents when they bring this up. linkI point out that this is an NFL thing, not a football thing. I'm 61 and played HS, college, and semi-pro football. I'm OK and so are my former teammates. My former coaches, a generation older than me, are OK too. This, of course, is minus the guys who had substance issues or who weren't right before they ever played a football game (and every team I was on had a couple of each). So, point out examples of people that the kids know-coaches, grandfathers, uncles, etc.- who played football and didn't end up drooling idiots.
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Post by coachstepp on Mar 17, 2015 8:48:26 GMT -6
I'll tell them everyone should think more like Bobby Wagner. And I would tell them that Borland had two concussions: one in football and one in soccer, so they're son won't necessarily be safer playing other sports. Think more like Bobby Wagner? Explain, please.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 17, 2015 9:42:00 GMT -6
Chris Borland has decided to retire from the NFL at the age of 24 due to concussion concerns. While I don't think it will have any immediate impact on the NFL and what the fans think of it, I can see a lot of parents now using this as another mark against their kid playing youth or HS ball. Anyone else think this, and if so what is your plan to address the fears of parents when they bring this up. Ems linkI point out that this is an NFL thing, not a football thing. I'm 61 and played HS, college, and semi-pro football. I'm OK and so are my former teammates. My former coaches, a generation older than me, are OK too. This, of course, is minus the guys who had substance issues or who weren't right before they ever played a football game (and every team I was on had a couple of each). So, point out examples of people that the kids know-coaches, grandfathers, uncles, etc.- who played football and didn't end up drooling idiots. Amen. This is where the media distorts everything and gets people all worked up. They do not understand the difference between playing football through high school and being a professional football player. This guy stepped away after a year because he was worried about what if... As far as I know he wasn't symptomatic at all and all power to him for doing what he feels is right for him. But it will lead back to all the players who have problems. But the media never points out for this guys who were in the league for 10 years or however long that they probably played more football in one year than most HS kids play in their careers! When you factor in middle school, high school, college, pros for those guys you're talking decades of playing compared to 5-6 at most for a kidmwhomplays through high school. But the media never talks about that. Because there is a war on football no matter what you think.
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Post by fantom on Mar 17, 2015 9:45:08 GMT -6
I point out that this is an NFL thing, not a football thing. I'm 61 and played HS, college, and semi-pro football. I'm OK and so are my former teammates. My former coaches, a generation older than me, are OK too. This, of course, is minus the guys who had substance issues or who weren't right before they ever played a football game (and every team I was on had a couple of each). So, point out examples of people that the kids know-coaches, grandfathers, uncles, etc.- who played football and didn't end up drooling idiots. Amen. This is where the media distorts everything and gets people all worked up. They do not understand the difference between playing football through high school and being a professional football player. This guy stepped away after a year because he was worried about what if... As far as I know he wasn't symptomatic at all and all power to him for doing what he feels is right for him. But it will lead back to all the players who have problems. But the media never points out for this guys who were in the league for 10 years or however long that they probably played more football in one year than most HS kids play in their careers! When you factor in middle school, high school, college, pros for those guys you're talking decades of playing compared to 5-6 at most for a kidmwhomplays through high school. But the media never talks about that. Because there is a war on football no matter what you think. I'm all for young guys getting out of the NFL early. Play some football, make some money, then get on with your life. That's what supposed to happen.
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dman54
Sophomore Member
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Post by dman54 on Mar 17, 2015 9:56:07 GMT -6
Amen. This is where the media distorts everything and gets people all worked up. They do not understand the difference between playing football through high school and being a professional football player. This guy stepped away after a year because he was worried about what if... As far as I know he wasn't symptomatic at all and all power to him for doing what he feels is right for him. But it will lead back to all the players who have problems. But the media never points out for this guys who were in the league for 10 years or however long that they probably played more football in one year than most HS kids play in their careers! When you factor in middle school, high school, college, pros for those guys you're talking decades of playing compared to 5-6 at most for a kidmwhomplays through high school. But the media never talks about that. Because there is a war on football no matter what you think. I'm all for young guys getting out of the NFL early. Play some football, make some money, then get on with your life. That's what supposed to happen. I think what Patrick Willis did was the perfect balance. Played good years, earned a lot of money, will be mentioned to the HOF, and now just walked away while in good shape and health. Smart guy.
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Post by agap on Mar 17, 2015 9:56:15 GMT -6
Bobby Wagner just said he's going to keep playing because he loves the game too much, or something like that. I read his tweet last night so I don't remember exactly what he said, but it's close to that.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 17, 2015 10:04:01 GMT -6
Bobby Wagner just said he's going to keep playing because he loves the game too much, or something like that. I read his tweet last night so I don't remember exactly what he said, but it's close to that. Keep in mind that some of these athletes really don't have ANYTHING else going for them... and some absolutely do. I have no idea which applies to Bobby Wagner.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 17, 2015 10:05:42 GMT -6
Just one more punch in the gut for our Sport.
If a Parent has to ask any of us about safety...we most likely have already lost them.
Football is under siege...at every level.
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Post by doubletight305 on Mar 17, 2015 10:42:30 GMT -6
My greatest fear with all of this is a drastic knee-jerk reaction from the NFL. Football will never be 100% totally safe; no sport is, but the NFL cannot come out and say that.
If a young marquee player or two (Russell Wilson, Cam Newton etc.) decides to call it quits early then the NFL will have to react from a PR perspective and that could be scary, like sport-altering scary.
My best guess is that they will try to regulate the max length of NFL careers and force players out after 4-5 years. Sounds completely stupid to us.. but to the general masses it could be seen as "the NFL taking a step in the right direction".
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 17, 2015 10:51:18 GMT -6
Honestly, and it will be a highly unpopular opinion, I would like it if pre HS football were to go away.
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Post by mariner42 on Mar 17, 2015 11:15:12 GMT -6
Honestly, and it will be a highly unpopular opinion, I would like it if pre HS football were to go away. If/When I have sons, they won't play contact football until HS. Watch an episode of Friday Night Tykes or whatever that show is and tell me you want those guys teaching your kids how to hit. I don't think that they're nearly representative of what youth coaching is, but I don't have much confidence. Flag football is good enough, imo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 11:44:30 GMT -6
NFL |= Youth Football.
The sheer physics behind the impact of a 6'3'' 260 pound linebacker that moves at 22 mph versus the impact of a 5'10'' 185 pound linebacker that moves at 18 mph...I mean the numbers aren't even in the same ballpark. But in this helicopter parenting society we have going on right now, you can't begin to get that through their skulls.
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 17, 2015 12:08:13 GMT -6
I say this in the weight room but it can apply to football too.. Dont talk to me about safety until you wear a seatbelt every time you drive, don't drink, dont drink and drive, dont ride with people who drink and drive, dont smoke, dont hang around people who smoke, dont use drugs, dont use drugs and drive, dont ride with people who use drugs and then drive, dont have sex with untold numbers of people that you have no idea about and even if you do what about the people they had sex with, don't ride 4 wheelers, dont drive above the speed limit, dont hang out with gangs, don't hang out with people with guns, dont hang out with drug dealers and dont do many of the other things that kids do that most parents really don't give a crap about.
I had one parent that wouldn't let her son take creatine but he owned and shot an AR-15. Thats insane to me.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 17, 2015 12:16:57 GMT -6
If you know what you're doing, an AR-15 is way safer than creatine.
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 17, 2015 12:28:40 GMT -6
Honestly, and it will be a highly unpopular opinion, I would like it if pre HS football were to go away. If/When I have sons, they won't play contact football until HS. Watch an episode of Friday Night Tykes or whatever that show is and tell me you want those guys teaching your kids how to hit. I don't think that they're nearly representative of what youth coaching is, but I don't have much confidence. Flag football is good enough, imo. This is interesting from a number of points of view. Safety - there are far, far fewer injuries in youth football than HS football. And there are chuckleheads coaching at every level. My son's two concussions came as a direct result of bad HS coaching, he had no issues in the 7 years he played youth football. Then I look at what football does that, IMO, other sports don't. There is a lot of value and character that can be imparted playing football. The problem is that personality characteristics are largely locked in by HS, so you aren't making nearly as much difference at that age as can be made when they are younger. The 7 years my son played youth football had a lasting and profound impact on him as a person, far more than the 4 years of HS football. Youth football made him a different and better person. Then you look at competitiveness - around here (which is all I can speak to), if you first step on a field as a freshman, it's very likely you ain't ever getting on the field, because you're so far behind the youth players you may never catch up. Have seen it happen time and time again, very good athletes going out for football for the first time as freshman or sophomores and not lasting because they can't keep up with kids who have been playing for years. Of course, some of that may be because the HS coaches have gotten used to kids coming in with experience so they don't focus as much (or at all) on fundamentals. If you evened the playing field so everyone was starting as a freshman, that would obviously go away.
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 17, 2015 12:37:33 GMT -6
If you know what you're doing, an AR-15 is way safer than creatine. ha
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Post by mahonz on Mar 17, 2015 12:42:49 GMT -6
Honestly, and it will be a highly unpopular opinion, I would like it if pre HS football were to go away. Your statement only adds to the current problem with Football in general....whether you realize this or not....Im thinking not.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 17, 2015 12:53:38 GMT -6
If you know what you're doing, an AR-15 is way safer than creatine. ha True story. I'd be willing to bet that creatine has done more harm to causal users than an AR-15 has done in the hands of a trained, knowledgeable user.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 17, 2015 12:55:40 GMT -6
Honestly, and it will be a highly unpopular opinion, I would like it if pre HS football were to go away. Your statement only adds to the current problem with Football in general....whether you realize this or not....Im thinking not. How does it do that? I think eliminating a focus on football at an age where kids are physically unable to play it would eliminate a lot of burn out in the sport and numbers at the HS level would increase instead of continuing to decline as they have for the past 2 decades plus. I don't think it's a coincidence that numbers have decreased in High Schools as youth programs have become more prevalent.
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 17, 2015 13:10:37 GMT -6
True story. I'd be willing to bet that creatine has done more harm to causal users than an AR-15 has done in the hands of a trained, knowledgeable user. I would take that bet. The safety of creatine has been established for some time now. No offense, but that is an uninformed statement. It is even being touted for its health benefits now. The safety of creatine has been long established as safe. Off topic for this discussion though.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 17, 2015 13:12:21 GMT -6
Your statement only adds to the current problem with Football in general....whether you realize this or not....Im thinking not. How does it do that? I think eliminating a focus on football at an age where kids are physically unable to play it would eliminate a lot of burn out in the sport and numbers at the HS level would increase instead of continuing to decline as they have for the past 2 decades plus. I don't think it's a coincidence that numbers have decreased in High Schools as youth programs have become more prevalent. The Youth Football Programs do battle endlessly with Baseball, Basketball, LAX and Soccer for Registrants. The reason youth sports is growing exponentially is all Sports are now ignoring traditional Seasons...including Football to some degree. That is why HS FB numbers are steadily shrinking. Has NOTHING to do with Youth Football per say....it has everything to do with kids getting sucked into a year round Sport. Youth Sports is also a cash cow but only if run year round. HUGE problem for the HS Programs. A 10 year old kid can play Baseball year round and never play in one single League Game. They are Tournament Teams. They play 60 games in the Spring and 30 in the Fall and practice all winter in the Cage with a Trainer. Same thing with Soccer and LAX and now Basketball....while Football becomes less important because its....dangerous and more expensive to manage. That is the reality at the youth levels....its not Coaching or FNT's or burnout or whatever other reason you might come up with that makes sense. Its money and the ability other Sports have over Football when it comes to training the young....physically, technically, mentally and emotionally 365 days per year. A kid that plays Tournament Baseball for 3 or 4 years, for example isn't even going to give Football a second thought once he hits the 9th grade. That has been going on in my town since my kids played youth Baseball 20 years ago. And since these Tournament Teams travel to other States or host Teams from other States....its going on there too. So...if you kill off youth football....you eventually kill of football as you know it.
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Post by cqmiller on Mar 17, 2015 13:19:36 GMT -6
Don't forget that he thought it WAS worth the risk to get a free education and to earn a very large sum of money (by most people's standards) before he turned 24 years old...
Because he doesn't think the rest of his career is worth it shouldn't shock anyone or have an impact on youth football if parents have a brain in their heads... If a parent doesn't want their kid to play football and rather than having him spend the time and energy going to practices, games, lifting, etc... from age 8 to 18 and instead makes them work just as hard at reading, math, science, history, etc... they will be receiving "full-ride" in academics instead. Football is a means to an end for some people... for others it is not.
I am sure the lessons learned in his time as a football player will positively impact his life from here on out in a way that you cannot directly link to money. The attack football is under from the physical aspect, completely ignores all of the other positive things you learn from the experience. What will be the excuse when all of these kids are being kept in their basements their entire lives and never have to "risk" any physical damage by participating in sports?
A hell of a lot more people in this country are dying from lack of physical activity than from CTE and concussion-related issues, but its okay for their kids to eat fast foods and play video games for 13 hours a day when that is just as dangerous for little Johnny's long-term health as the slight possibility your kid will suffer the right sequence of events to have serious long-term issues from football.
My little brother had to give up football from number of concussions he received in high school. Sat out his SR year and the last 8 games his JR year... every single day he wishes he could have continued playing, but the correct decision was to hang it up. It was not football's fault... just bad luck for him in a sequence of events that nobody could have seen coming before they happened.
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Post by sneakyben on Mar 17, 2015 13:44:41 GMT -6
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Post by jlenwood on Mar 17, 2015 14:45:44 GMT -6
Chris Borland has decided to retire from the NFL at the age of 24 due to concussion concerns. While I don't think it will have any immediate impact on the NFL and what the fans think of it, I can see a lot of parents now using this as another mark against their kid playing youth or HS ball. Anyone else think this, and if so what is your plan to address the fears of parents when they bring this up. linkI point out that this is an NFL thing, not a football thing. I'm 61 and played HS, college, and semi-pro football. I'm OK and so are my former teammates. My former coaches, a generation older than me, are OK too. This, of course, is minus the guys who had substance issues or who weren't right before they ever played a football game (and every team I was on had a couple of each). So, point out examples of people that the kids know-coaches, grandfathers, uncles, etc.- who played football and didn't end up drooling idiots. And if I am a parent making an informed decision, I would point out that I can probably provide just as many anecdotal examples as you are. This isn't a very good counter point, in my opinion, to answer a parents concerns. I still contend that at some point the research needs to be done that lays out what position players get the most head injuries, when they happen and during what activity. For instance, if we know that most concussions happen to LBrs, during practice, during inside run, now we have something to address and lessen the chance of injury. I really tried to research this a year or so ago and could find no such information. So take this a step further, a parent comes to me and says what are you doing about my sons safety. I can answer with, well we have found that most brain injuries occur doing _______, and they happen at _____ time. So we have taken steps to alleviate that high risk. Now there will always be a risk/reward decision to be made, but why not have hard numbers at our disposal to use to make our argument FOR football and everyhting great that goes with it, as well as making things safer as we go.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 17, 2015 16:08:07 GMT -6
I point out that this is an NFL thing, not a football thing. I'm 61 and played HS, college, and semi-pro football. I'm OK and so are my former teammates. My former coaches, a generation older than me, are OK too. This, of course, is minus the guys who had substance issues or who weren't right before they ever played a football game (and every team I was on had a couple of each). So, point out examples of people that the kids know-coaches, grandfathers, uncles, etc.- who played football and didn't end up drooling idiots. And if I am a parent making an informed decision, I would point out that I can probably provide just as many anecdotal examples as you are. This isn't a very good counter point, in my opinion, to answer a parents concerns. I still contend that at some point the research needs to be done that lays out what position players get the most head injuries, when they happen and during what activity. For instance, if we know that most concussions happen to LBrs, during practice, during inside run, now we have something to address and lessen the chance of injury. I really tried to research this a year or so ago and could find no such information. So take this a step further, a parent comes to me and says what are you doing about my sons safety. I can answer with, well we have found that most brain injuries occur doing _______, and they happen at _____ time. So we have taken steps to alleviate that high risk. Now there will always be a risk/reward decision to be made, but why not have hard numbers at our disposal to use to make our argument FOR football and everyhting great that goes with it, as well as making things safer as we go. I do agree with the NFL angle on this subject to a certain degree. In the NFL... Players are paid to preform...so preform or get replaced. No hard cup chinstraps as the norm...but this is changing. No molded mouthpieces...but you are seeing them more and more. Undersized helmets, shoulder pads and pants. And above all else...speed of the game. These are the items I bring up with pre HS Parents. That helps but only if their Son's have played before. If I am recruiting rookies and have to address this issue...I have already lost them more times than not. They are not all that interested in the facts or data or even how we are all working to become better coaches by doing this and that. They just see articles like this one and have made up their minds....as Jr begs them too play.
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Post by spartandefense on Mar 17, 2015 17:30:19 GMT -6
Just curious as to how many guys on here have actually coached youth football or pop warner?
My experience helping out a youth football team (and I am not in texas or in a football crazy area) was very close to Friday Night Tykes minus all the glitz and glamor. In fact we did the exact same drills that I see them doing - especially the two lines creating a tunnel to hit from a 10 yard head start.
Why would anyone want the least educated and least experienced coaches coaching our most vulnerable football players is beyond me. Why do we have contact rules and time limits for adults and we don't for youth football?
I am a DC in HS and we hit WAY less than what I saw in pop warner. I never once saw tackling of bags, form tackling progressions, or thud.
If you don't think that Friday Night Tykes is representative, ask your self this: If the cameras weren't around what would be going on? My guess is much worse.
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