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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 17, 2015 17:37:24 GMT -6
a thought to ponder ...
"without actual data, you're just another person with an opinion."
So, to me, the anecdotal stuff is not very relevant. the media is not very relevant. If I want a strong and valid argument I need valid data - backed up by scientific research.
well, not much is out there either way in regards to high school football.
so, on 1 hand, you can use the above statement in your favor ... "where's YOUR data?"
or .... start scouring medical journals or get involved in research yourself to develop the data so you can say "here's the data that says _____"
otherwise, we're pretty much pi$$ing in the wind. My ability to "convince" a parent to let a kid play ball comes down to either a strawman argument or smoke & mirrors or all my "i'm fine, bob's fine, my grandpa is fine"...
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 17, 2015 18:07:39 GMT -6
I point out that this is an NFL thing, not a football thing. I'm 61 and played HS, college, and semi-pro football. I'm OK and so are my former teammates. My former coaches, a generation older than me, are OK too. This, of course, is minus the guys who had substance issues or who weren't right before they ever played a football game (and every team I was on had a couple of each). So, point out examples of people that the kids know-coaches, grandfathers, uncles, etc.- who played football and didn't end up drooling idiots. And if I am a parent making an informed decision, I would point out that I can probably provide just as many anecdotal examples as you are. This isn't a very good counter point, in my opinion, to answer a parents concerns. I still contend that at some point the research needs to be done that lays out what position players get the most head injuries, when they happen and during what activity. For instance, if we know that most concussions happen to LBrs, during practice, during inside run, now we have something to address and lessen the chance of injury. I really tried to research this a year or so ago and could find no such information. So take this a step further, a parent comes to me and says what are you doing about my sons safety. I can answer with, well we have found that most brain injuries occur doing _______, and they happen at _____ time. So we have taken steps to alleviate that high risk. Now there will always be a risk/reward decision to be made, but why not have hard numbers at our disposal to use to make our argument FOR football and everyhting great that goes with it, as well as making things safer as we go. But again, "concussions"--the acute trauma aren't necessarily the issue. Repeated subconcussive blows seem to be as dangerous, if not more so. Also, I don't think one could ever compile the data you are discussing...while it sounds great, it just doesn't seem realistic.
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Post by s73 on Mar 17, 2015 18:28:56 GMT -6
I personally believe with no evidence at all whatsoever, I acknowledge this, just a gut feeling, like Huey says, just pissing in the wind, that concussions has been an EASY WAY OUT for what I like to call the "fence riders" of our sport.
Any kid who could take it or leave it, maybe took it in the past b/c his buddies wanted him to play or dad did. Now those guys have the excuse.
I also believe, with no evidence at all whatsoever, that some NFL players who are a little burnt & have some $$ in the bank now have a great excuse to walk away w/o being called nuts like Ricky Williams was years ago. Again, it's an easy out.
I don't think that will change anytime soon b/c it's an out some of these guys always wanted & now they have it.
Again, JMO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 18:51:41 GMT -6
Chris Borland has decided to retire from the NFL at the age of 24 due to concussion concerns. While I don't think it will have any immediate impact on the NFL and what the fans think of it, I can see a lot of parents now using this as another mark against their kid playing youth or HS ball. Anyone else think this, and if so what is your plan to address the fears of parents when they bring this up. linkRight or wrong, I do not know, but this is the unintended consequence of poor leadership from Roger Goodell. He opened the flood gates and their is no putting that water behind the damn. That and quitting is now more acceptable than ever.I will not go further on the subject.
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Post by fantom on Mar 17, 2015 19:24:51 GMT -6
I point out that this is an NFL thing, not a football thing. I'm 61 and played HS, college, and semi-pro football. I'm OK and so are my former teammates. My former coaches, a generation older than me, are OK too. This, of course, is minus the guys who had substance issues or who weren't right before they ever played a football game (and every team I was on had a couple of each). So, point out examples of people that the kids know-coaches, grandfathers, uncles, etc.- who played football and didn't end up drooling idiots. And if I am a parent making an informed decision, I would point out that I can probably provide just as many anecdotal examples as you are. This isn't a very good counter point, in my opinion, to answer a parents concerns. I still contend that at some point the research needs to be done that lays out what position players get the most head injuries, when they happen and during what activity. For instance, if we know that most concussions happen to LBrs, during practice, during inside run, now we have something to address and lessen the chance of injury. I really tried to research this a year or so ago and could find no such information. So take this a step further, a parent comes to me and says what are you doing about my sons safety. I can answer with, well we have found that most brain injuries occur doing _______, and they happen at _____ time. So we have taken steps to alleviate that high risk. Now there will always be a risk/reward decision to be made, but why not have hard numbers at our disposal to use to make our argument FOR football and everyhting great that goes with it, as well as making things safer as we go. If I'm wrong our game dies and it should.
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Post by jlenwood on Mar 17, 2015 19:53:17 GMT -6
And if I am a parent making an informed decision, I would point out that I can probably provide just as many anecdotal examples as you are. This isn't a very good counter point, in my opinion, to answer a parents concerns. I still contend that at some point the research needs to be done that lays out what position players get the most head injuries, when they happen and during what activity. For instance, if we know that most concussions happen to LBrs, during practice, during inside run, now we have something to address and lessen the chance of injury. I really tried to research this a year or so ago and could find no such information. So take this a step further, a parent comes to me and says what are you doing about my sons safety. I can answer with, well we have found that most brain injuries occur doing _______, and they happen at _____ time. So we have taken steps to alleviate that high risk. Now there will always be a risk/reward decision to be made, but why not have hard numbers at our disposal to use to make our argument FOR football and everyhting great that goes with it, as well as making things safer as we go. If I'm wrong our game dies and it should. I am not saying you are right or wrong, I am just suggesting that someone is going to have a counter point to your "evidence". I also think the sport isn't going to die, or fade away or whatever other doom and gloom we want to say. With technology of helmets and equipment, along with better coaching techniques, I think safety can be at the forefront of football. There will always be some risk, there is in anything we do. One other point that I find disturbing, why is there no national voice coming out in support of football, and the benefits we all agree come from playing this game. Why aren't the AFCA and other national association's coming out as hard as they can to counter the argument against football. We need a NRA type of advocate for the sport. If anybody even mentions bullets or guns, the NRA is all over TV. Why can't some organization for football do the same. Maybe some of them are doing some things, but I sure never see it on ESPN when they run their stories on concussions. Maybe the national organizations are afraid to get on board with this for fear that there is truly long term issues that can't be denied. I would hope that some coaches association would start to organize and get out in front of the media and start controlling some of the conversation instead of everything being so one sided all the time. No wonder parents are afraid to let their kids play.
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Post by 42falcon on Mar 17, 2015 20:43:44 GMT -6
I've posted here before on the approach our program takes. I think we are a leader in the field here in Canada for sure potentially in North America.
Does our game have safety issues? YES you would be remised to deny that. In fact you would perpetuate the problem. Yes some of this has gripped the media and makes headlines in the 24-7 news world. That doesn't make it any less true. I lost a friend recently to CTE, he was a bobsleigh athlete high number of crashes, committed suicide.
I fundamentally believe part of this is education: educate coaches. & kids in how to tackle. / teach tackling. You get fewer head to head impacts, coaches practice differently and that results in fewer opportunities for head to head high-speed collisions.
In our program for the last two years we have put an impact sensor in every single helmet. That impact sensor measures the velocity and force of every hit that a student takes regardless of how small or how large. The data is sent real-time to an iPad that is held by a student trainer and a certified athletic therapist. If the impact or collision is greater than a certain number of G forces the iPad sends off an alert to that trainer. That athlete is then automatically pulled aside and assessed against their baseline data. We found that we assess far more than we ever have in the past. In year one we discovered that a very high percentage close to 20% of the students involved in our program at some point in time had a head injury while playing football that season.
We felt and thought that data was a little bit skewed and a little bit high so this year we made modifications to our program as well as to our practices. Students are now assessed more frequently versus the one time assessment as well other factors are taken into consideration things like does the student have a cold or did the student have a headache prior to practice or prior to the game. We adapted the way that we practiced and the way that we can contact. Lastly we purchased over 100 guardian caps and put them on every single helmet during practice. This reduced the mount of force registered with each hit.
This year I think our numbers for concussions are we down on our senior team I did not sustain a one concussion at all throughout practices.
Once again it's education, & preparedness. We take every step to protect our kids. If our game is to survive we all need to protect our kids.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 17, 2015 21:20:25 GMT -6
Just curious as to how many guys on here have actually coached youth football or pop warner? My experience helping out a youth football team (and I am not in texas or in a football crazy area) was very close to Friday Night Tykes minus all the glitz and glamor. In fact we did the exact same drills that I see them doing - especially the two lines creating a tunnel to hit from a 10 yard head start. Why would anyone want the least educated and least experienced coaches coaching our most vulnerable football players is beyond me. Why do we have contact rules and time limits for adults and we don't for youth football? I am a DC in HS and we hit WAY less than what I saw in pop warner. I never once saw tackling of bags, form tackling progressions, or thud. If you don't think that Friday Night Tykes is representative, ask your self this: If the cameras weren't around what would be going on? My guess is much worse. Good points. Its all about the Youth Football Organization itself and how they are structured. As far as FNT's...in 30 years of coaching youth football I have never not once been part of a Staff that acts or coaches as poorly as some of those guys. Ask yourself this: if a Camera Crew and a Producer followed you around all season long and then edited for ratings...how would you look at the end of the day? My guess is much worse than you'd like to think. Its all hyperbole designed to put more seats in the seats.
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Post by tog on Mar 17, 2015 21:21:28 GMT -6
I am so sad for this country and world that football will be dead in 10/15 years because of this sort of thing
The slide into the idiocracy will happen faster due to it.
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Post by coachmonkey on Mar 17, 2015 21:31:56 GMT -6
I point out that this is an NFL thing, not a football thing. I'm 61 and played HS, college, and semi-pro football. I'm OK and so are my former teammates. My former coaches, a generation older than me, are OK too. This, of course, is minus the guys who had substance issues or who weren't right before they ever played a football game (and every team I was on had a couple of each). So, point out examples of people that the kids know-coaches, grandfathers, uncles, etc.- who played football and didn't end up drooling idiots. And if I am a parent making an informed decision, I would point out that I can probably provide just as many anecdotal examples as you are. This isn't a very good counter point, in my opinion, to answer a parents concerns. I still contend that at some point the research needs to be done that lays out what position players get the most head injuries, when they happen and during what activity. For instance, if we know that most concussions happen to LBrs, during practice, during inside run, now we have something to address and lessen the chance of injury. I really tried to research this a year or so ago and could find no such information. So take this a step further, a parent comes to me and says what are you doing about my sons safety. I can answer with, well we have found that most brain injuries occur doing _______, and they happen at _____ time. So we have taken steps to alleviate that high risk. Now there will always be a risk/reward decision to be made, but why not have hard numbers at our disposal to use to make our argument FOR football and everyhting great that goes with it, as well as making things safer as we go. This makes me giggle.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 17, 2015 21:38:34 GMT -6
I personally believe with no evidence at all whatsoever, I acknowledge this, just a gut feeling, like Huey says, just pissing in the wind, that concussions has been an EASY WAY OUT for what I like to call the "fence riders" of our sport. Any kid who could take it or leave it, maybe took it in the past b/c his buddies wanted him to play or dad did. Now those guys have the excuse. I also believe, with no evidence at all whatsoever, that some NFL players who are a little burnt & have some $$ in the bank now have a great excuse to walk away w/o being called nuts like Ricky Williams was years ago. Again, it's an easy out. I don't think that will change anytime soon b/c it's an out some of these guys always wanted & now they have it. Again, JMO. I agree. Football is hard work and not for everyone. I see this at the youth level. Kids are lazy and dont want to put in the work. I hear it all the time.....playing baseball is fun because its all games with less practice sessions....football is the polar opposite.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 17, 2015 21:40:29 GMT -6
I am so sad for this country and world that football will be dead in 10/15 years because of this sort of thing The slide into the idiocracy will happen faster due to it. I hope Im dead when that happens.
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Post by spartandefense on Mar 17, 2015 21:56:02 GMT -6
I agree with a lot of the points made.
The NFL and College levels had made adjustments to make the game safer. I know at the HS level I see coaches teaching tackling without pads or with bags. I also see tackling progressions taught.
The original title referenced youth football. This where is where our most vulnerable players are and they need to be protected. Why not institute limits on contact, force coaches to take classes on safety, limit size differentials, and limit the separation between players in tackling drills etc. If they guys on FNT who have cameras on them all the time have no adjusted their drills in the face of media outcry and the CTE hysteria, then some of this stuff has to be legislated to force them to chance.
I think we all need to recognize that we are 1 major lawsuit away from losing football at the HS or Youth level. Its time to be proactive. Why should we wait for hard evidence. We all know that banging kids with 10 yd head starts into each other is not a good way to teach the game. We also know for sure our youngest players should be protected the most and the coaching at those levels is the worst with regards to safety.
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Post by tothehouse on Mar 18, 2015 0:12:26 GMT -6
Give me the number of NFL players that went on beyond football and lived life "normally". I guess that means...brain wise. Knees, shoulders, etc. were probably shot.
My point is...it's like the bird flu. Concussions are a big deal and I'm not making lite of them. My point is...there are probably more people doing fine than people are going around killing people (or themselves) because they got knocked in the head.
My oldest son is a freshman QB. He has a chance to start for the varsity as a sophomore...and his O line has ZERO career starts. We also play in one of the toughest conferences in California. I'm looking forward to it actually.
If I sit there and think..."his poor little noggin" then we're all playing scared and making us vulnerable. Think about it...how many more times has a kid got hurt going slower?
I'll just get his ass in the weight room more and prepare him for these games.
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Post by tiger46 on Mar 18, 2015 4:07:59 GMT -6
Just curious as to how many guys on here have actually coached youth football or pop warner? My experience helping out a youth football team (and I am not in texas or in a football crazy area) was very close to Friday Night Tykes minus all the glitz and glamor. In fact we did the exact same drills that I see them doing - especially the two lines creating a tunnel to hit from a 10 yard head start. Why would anyone want the least educated and least experienced coaches coaching our most vulnerable football players is beyond me. Why do we have contact rules and time limits for adults and we don't for youth football? I am a DC in HS and we hit WAY less than what I saw in pop warner. I never once saw tackling of bags, form tackling progressions, or thud. If you don't think that Friday Night Tykes is representative, ask your self this: If the cameras weren't around what would be going on? My guess is much worse. This attitude right there is what creates a separation between youth football coaches and HS football coaches. I think sooner, or later, the separation is going to contribute to killing the sport that we all like so much. You assume that since your were a crappy youth coach and part of an even crappier staff, that it is indicative of the majority of youth football organizations. That is not necessarily true. Youth coaches are the ones that foster the love of the game in kids. I also think the 'burnout' excuse is just that; an excuse. Or, for those coaches that believe the kid when he says he's burnt out on football because of his youth playing days; have you ever just considered that maybe that kid thinks you're an a$$hole and he just doesn't want to play for you? Or, maybe your program sucks and he doesn't want to be a part of it. He may be using the burn out excuse as a polite, acceptable way of saying no. Now, I'm certainly not calling anyone here an a-hole or, saying that their football program sucks. It's just that there's no telling what is really going through a teen-aged boy's mind sometimes. As anyone can tell you, football just isn't for all kids. That's true at youth level, also. My league limits practices to three days a week. Two hour practices. We can only hit in full pads two days out of the three days that we are allowed to practice. A rule that I don't necessarily agree with; but, I have to deal with it. We teach tackling progression, use tackle dummies, form tackle, etc... We've even been known to occasionally give the starting players a drink of water. Heck, if that ain't exemplary coaching in a top notch program, I don't know what is. As far as experience goes, I've been a youth coach for 9yrs. My HC has been a coach for 15yrs. I can always learn more. I can always increase my knowledge. I feel it is my responsibility to do so. That's why I frequent football sites and buy materials, etc... I freely admit that I have never watched an episode of FNT. Just from what I hear from other coaches, it would be too cringe-worthy for me to watch. I was a terrible coach my first season and even I would have never done some of the stupid things that I've been told that goes on in that show. It's my time and money. I like that I spend both working with kids. But, I am not a professional coach. Great job. But, I don't want it. I like that I am a volunteer. I can walk away anytime that I so please and not worry about my mortgage or car payment. I don't know how you guys manage to put up with the bureaucracy, administrators, the politics of HS football and not want to punch somebody's teeth out.
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Post by jlenwood on Mar 18, 2015 5:26:37 GMT -6
And if I am a parent making an informed decision, I would point out that I can probably provide just as many anecdotal examples as you are. This isn't a very good counter point, in my opinion, to answer a parents concerns. I still contend that at some point the research needs to be done that lays out what position players get the most head injuries, when they happen and during what activity. For instance, if we know that most concussions happen to LBrs, during practice, during inside run, now we have something to address and lessen the chance of injury. I really tried to research this a year or so ago and could find no such information. So take this a step further, a parent comes to me and says what are you doing about my sons safety. I can answer with, well we have found that most brain injuries occur doing _______, and they happen at _____ time. So we have taken steps to alleviate that high risk. Now there will always be a risk/reward decision to be made, but why not have hard numbers at our disposal to use to make our argument FOR football and everyhting great that goes with it, as well as making things safer as we go. This makes me giggle. I guess I fell into the trap of thinking in a perfect world what might happen! However, I feel as though I was one of those parents. My oldest son had an opportunity to play college ball for a very good program. He probably had 2-3 concussions over his playing days. One of the deciding factors in him not playing was the brain injury issue. He loved the game and was very good at what he did, but bottom line, as a family decision (mostly his) he did not want to take the chance.
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Post by coachorm on Mar 18, 2015 7:13:01 GMT -6
A thought.... I coach football, played football, love football. Even occasionally watch some football that isn't an opponent or my team. When I heard that Chris Boreland retired my first response was... Who? Point being that I don't think this will effect Youth football as much as some think. This was not Aaron Rodgers, Richard Sherman, Tom Brady, or Payton Manning. This was a guy that although probably very good hadn't reached that elite status of the guys mentioned. I would imagine that parents of youth players for the most part won't pay much attention to this or even realize what happened.
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Post by jlenwood on Mar 18, 2015 7:23:13 GMT -6
A thought.... I coach football, played football, love football. Even occasionally watch some football that isn't an opponent or my team. When I heard that Chris Boreland retired my first response was... Who? Point being that I don't think this will effect Youth football as much as some think. This was not Aaron Rodgers, Richard Sherman, Tom Brady, or Payton Manning. This was a guy that although probably very good hadn't reached that elite status of the guys mentioned. I would imagine that parents of youth players for the most part won't pay much attention to this or even realize what happened. If they watch ESPN they will know who he is. Yesterday was wall to wall with this story.
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Post by Rooster on Mar 18, 2015 7:29:08 GMT -6
This will have a huge effect. Just like the Michael Vick incident has affected all the people like us farmers.
Rooster
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Post by fantom on Mar 18, 2015 8:04:39 GMT -6
a thought to ponder ... "without actual data, you're just another person with an opinion." So, to me, the anecdotal stuff is not very relevant. the media is not very relevant. If I want a strong and valid argument I need valid data - backed up by scientific research. well, not much is out there either way in regards to high school football. so, on 1 hand, you can use the above statement in your favor ... "where's YOUR data?" or .... start scouring medical journals or get involved in research yourself to develop the data so you can say "here's the data that says _____" otherwise, we're pretty much pi$$ing in the wind. My ability to "convince" a parent to let a kid play ball comes down to either a strawman argument or smoke & mirrors or all my "i'm fine, bob's fine, my grandpa is fine"... Other that anecdotal "evidence" what evidence is there?
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Post by natenator on Mar 18, 2015 8:27:55 GMT -6
I've posted here before on the approach our program takes. I think we are a leader in the field here in Canada for sure potentially in North America. Does our game have safety issues? YES you would be remised to deny that. In fact you would perpetuate the problem. Yes some of this has gripped the media and makes headlines in the 24-7 news world. That doesn't make it any less true. I lost a friend recently to CTE, he was a bobsleigh athlete high number of crashes, committed suicide. I fundamentally believe part of this is education: educate coaches. & kids in how to tackle. / teach tackling. You get fewer head to head impacts, coaches practice differently and that results in fewer opportunities for head to head high-speed collisions. In our program for the last two years we have put an impact sensor in every single helmet. That impact sensor measures the velocity and force of every hit that a student takes regardless of how small or how large. The data is sent real-time to an iPad that is held by a student trainer and a certified athletic therapist. If the impact or collision is greater than a certain number of G forces the iPad sends off an alert to that trainer. That athlete is then automatically pulled aside and assessed against their baseline data. We found that we assess far more than we ever have in the past. In year one we discovered that a very high percentage close to 20% of the students involved in our program at some point in time had a head injury while playing football that season. We felt and thought that data was a little bit skewed and a little bit high so this year we made modifications to our program as well as to our practices. Students are now assessed more frequently versus the one time assessment as well other factors are taken into consideration things like does the student have a cold or did the student have a headache prior to practice or prior to the game. We adapted the way that we practiced and the way that we can contact. Lastly we purchased over 100 guardian caps and put them on every single helmet during practice. This reduced the mount of force registered with each hit. This year I think our numbers for concussions are we down on our senior team I did not sustain a one concussion at all throughout practices. Once again it's education, & preparedness. We take every step to protect our kids. If our game is to survive we all need to protect our kids. What sensor system do you use? I've looked at the shock box system and at $175/each that would be financially difficult to manage but not impossible.
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Post by agap on Mar 18, 2015 8:52:25 GMT -6
This will have a huge effect. Just like the Michael Vick incident has affected all the people like us farmers. Rooster Or it's quickly forgotten like so many other things. The media talks about Adrian Peterson quite a bit now and where he'll play next season, but they rarely bring up what he did last fall anymore.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 18, 2015 8:57:21 GMT -6
True story. I'd be willing to bet that creatine has done more harm to causal users than an AR-15 has done in the hands of a trained, knowledgeable user. I would take that bet. The safety of creatine has been established for some time now. No offense, but that is an uninformed statement. It is even being touted for its health benefits now. The safety of creatine has been long established as safe. Off topic for this discussion though. My point is, that anything used without any knowledge of the product or weapon, will lead to harm eventually. You view creatine as perfectly fine because you are educated about how to use it. You view guns as dangerous because you probably aren't educated on how to use them and buy into what you hear about them. In the hands of an educated person, they're perfectly safe. A nail gun is dangerous as crap in the hands of an irresponsible, unacknowledged person. But, you don't run from a roofer when he grabs one.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 18, 2015 9:01:40 GMT -6
The Youth Football Programs do battle endlessly with Baseball, Basketball, LAX and Soccer for Registrants. The reason youth sports is growing exponentially is all Sports are now ignoring traditional Seasons...including Football to some degree. That is why HS FB numbers are steadily shrinking. Has NOTHING to do with Youth Football per say....it has everything to do with kids getting sucked into a year round Sport. Youth Sports is also a cash cow but only if run year round. HUGE problem for the HS Programs. A 10 year old kid can play Baseball year round and never play in one single League Game. They are Tournament Teams. They play 60 games in the Spring and 30 in the Fall and practice all winter in the Cage with a Trainer. Same thing with Soccer and LAX and now Basketball....while Football becomes less important because its....dangerous and more expensive to manage. That is the reality at the youth levels....its not Coaching or FNT's or burnout or whatever other reason you might come up with that makes sense. Its money and the ability other Sports have over Football when it comes to training the young....physically, technically, mentally and emotionally 365 days per year. A kid that plays Tournament Baseball for 3 or 4 years, for example isn't even going to give Football a second thought once he hits the 9th grade. That has been going on in my town since my kids played youth Baseball 20 years ago. And since these Tournament Teams travel to other States or host Teams from other States....its going on there too. So...if you kill off youth football....you eventually kill of football as you know it. In my area, we do not battle year round youth anything. Our program may be the only program in the world that does this, but for the past 5 years we've had more senior football players than we had when that class was freshmen. Our freshmen numbers are generally terrible. Last year we had 4 kids. From 3 schools? Why? JFL. It's robbing kids of any joy in playing the sport. That's what they tell me when I ask them as Srs why they didn't play earlier in their careers. It has nothing whatsoever to do with playing a year round sport in any other youth league. This is why, for my tastes, I would like youth football to go away. Personally, I think we'd all be better off if we all tried to fix ourselves instead of live our fantasies through Billy's 3rd grade state championship soccer team. I would love all organized youth sports to die a quick death.
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Post by Rooster on Mar 18, 2015 9:05:14 GMT -6
The Youth Football Programs do battle endlessly with Baseball, Basketball, LAX and Soccer for Registrants. The reason youth sports is growing exponentially is all Sports are now ignoring traditional Seasons...including Football to some degree. That is why HS FB numbers are steadily shrinking. Has NOTHING to do with Youth Football per say....it has everything to do with kids getting sucked into a year round Sport. Youth Sports is also a cash cow but only if run year round. HUGE problem for the HS Programs. A 10 year old kid can play Baseball year round and never play in one single League Game. They are Tournament Teams. They play 60 games in the Spring and 30 in the Fall and practice all winter in the Cage with a Trainer. Same thing with Soccer and LAX and now Basketball....while Football becomes less important because its....dangerous and more expensive to manage. That is the reality at the youth levels....its not Coaching or FNT's or burnout or whatever other reason you might come up with that makes sense. Its money and the ability other Sports have over Football when it comes to training the young....physically, technically, mentally and emotionally 365 days per year. A kid that plays Tournament Baseball for 3 or 4 years, for example isn't even going to give Football a second thought once he hits the 9th grade. That has been going on in my town since my kids played youth Baseball 20 years ago. And since these Tournament Teams travel to other States or host Teams from other States....its going on there too. So...if you kill off youth football....you eventually kill of football as you know it. In my area, we do not battle year round youth anything. Our program may be the only program in the world that does this, but for the past 5 years we've had more senior football players than we had when that class was freshmen. Our freshmen numbers are generally terrible. Last year we had 4 kids. From 3 schools? Why? JFL. It's robbing kids of any joy in playing the sport. That's what they tell me when I ask them as Srs why they didn't play earlier in their careers. It has nothing whatsoever to do with playing a year round sport in any other youth league. This is why, for my tastes, I would like youth football to go away. Personally, I think we'd all be better off if we all tried to fix ourselves instead of live our fantasies through Billy's 3rd grade state championship soccer team. I would love all organized youth sports to die a quick death. Or at least the parents......
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Post by mahonz on Mar 18, 2015 9:14:13 GMT -6
The Youth Football Programs do battle endlessly with Baseball, Basketball, LAX and Soccer for Registrants. The reason youth sports is growing exponentially is all Sports are now ignoring traditional Seasons...including Football to some degree. That is why HS FB numbers are steadily shrinking. Has NOTHING to do with Youth Football per say....it has everything to do with kids getting sucked into a year round Sport. Youth Sports is also a cash cow but only if run year round. HUGE problem for the HS Programs. A 10 year old kid can play Baseball year round and never play in one single League Game. They are Tournament Teams. They play 60 games in the Spring and 30 in the Fall and practice all winter in the Cage with a Trainer. Same thing with Soccer and LAX and now Basketball....while Football becomes less important because its....dangerous and more expensive to manage. That is the reality at the youth levels....its not Coaching or FNT's or burnout or whatever other reason you might come up with that makes sense. Its money and the ability other Sports have over Football when it comes to training the young....physically, technically, mentally and emotionally 365 days per year. A kid that plays Tournament Baseball for 3 or 4 years, for example isn't even going to give Football a second thought once he hits the 9th grade. That has been going on in my town since my kids played youth Baseball 20 years ago. And since these Tournament Teams travel to other States or host Teams from other States....its going on there too. So...if you kill off youth football....you eventually kill of football as you know it. In my area, we do not battle year round youth anything. Our program may be the only program in the world that does this, but for the past 5 years we've had more senior football players than we had when that class was freshmen. Our freshmen numbers are generally terrible. Last year we had 4 kids. From 3 schools? Why? JFL. It's robbing kids of any joy in playing the sport. That's what they tell me when I ask them as Srs why they didn't play earlier in their careers. It has nothing whatsoever to do with playing a year round sport in any other youth league. This is why, for my tastes, I would like youth football to go away. Personally, I think we'd all be better off if we all tried to fix ourselves instead of live our fantasies through Billy's 3rd grade state championship soccer team. I would love all organized youth sports to die a quick death. That is a real testament to your Program. If there weren't any youth Sports then the HS Programs would have no issues. That is what I hear from the local HS coaches. They have a tough time recruiting their halls because the kids have been pre programmed to play one sport. Soccer actually has a 3 year old division. That is pretty insane. I do agree that a poor coach will rob the kids of any joy for the Sport...any Sport. As a long time youth coach my only job is to teach the kids how to love the game of football. Im a realist too. Half the kids I coach will never play HS ball so its good that they can at least experience the game while they are young. The other half...if I do my job well....will be checking in with coaches like yourself in the near future. I don't believe eliminating youth sports would be all that wise. With both Parents working now a day....eventually you will experience the idle hands problems. Youth sports has become the after school babysitting service.
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 18, 2015 10:00:25 GMT -6
I would take that bet. The safety of creatine has been established for some time now. No offense, but that is an uninformed statement. It is even being touted for its health benefits now. The safety of creatine has been long established as safe. Off topic for this discussion though. My point is, that anything used without any knowledge of the product or weapon, will lead to harm eventually. You view creatine as perfectly fine because you are educated about how to use it. You view guns as dangerous because you probably aren't educated on how to use them and buy into what you hear about them. In the hands of an educated person, they're perfectly safe. A nail gun is dangerous as crap in the hands of an irresponsible, unacknowledged person. But, you don't run from a roofer when he grabs one. Whoaaa. We have a misunderstanding. I do not thing guns are inherently dangerous. My point was that an overzealous parent was more concerned about the most studied sports supplement in the history of the free world than her son having an automatic weapon. In fact, she is more concerned about the material contained in capsules that house supplements more than an automatic weapon. I am anti gun control just for the record. ha. I think there is a sliding scale of danger with things and creatine would be on the benign side rather than the "this does have the potential to kill you" side.
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Post by 42falcon on Mar 18, 2015 10:26:57 GMT -6
I've posted here before on the approach our program takes. I think we are a leader in the field here in Canada for sure potentially in North America. Does our game have safety issues? YES you would be remised to deny that. In fact you would perpetuate the problem. Yes some of this has gripped the media and makes headlines in the 24-7 news world. That doesn't make it any less true. I lost a friend recently to CTE, he was a bobsleigh athlete high number of crashes, committed suicide. I fundamentally believe part of this is education: educate coaches. & kids in how to tackle. / teach tackling. You get fewer head to head impacts, coaches practice differently and that results in fewer opportunities for head to head high-speed collisions. In our program for the last two years we have put an impact sensor in every single helmet. That impact sensor measures the velocity and force of every hit that a student takes regardless of how small or how large. The data is sent real-time to an iPad that is held by a student trainer and a certified athletic therapist. If the impact or collision is greater than a certain number of G forces the iPad sends off an alert to that trainer. That athlete is then automatically pulled aside and assessed against their baseline data. We found that we assess far more than we ever have in the past. In year one we discovered that a very high percentage close to 20% of the students involved in our program at some point in time had a head injury while playing football that season. We felt and thought that data was a little bit skewed and a little bit high so this year we made modifications to our program as well as to our practices. Students are now assessed more frequently versus the one time assessment as well other factors are taken into consideration things like does the student have a cold or did the student have a headache prior to practice or prior to the game. We adapted the way that we practiced and the way that we can contact. Lastly we purchased over 100 guardian caps and put them on every single helmet during practice. This reduced the mount of force registered with each hit. This year I think our numbers for concussions are we down on our senior team I did not sustain a one concussion at all throughout practices. Once again it's education, & preparedness. We take every step to protect our kids. If our game is to survive we all need to protect our kids. What sensor system do you use? I've looked at the shock box system and at $175/each that would be financially difficult to manage but not impossible. That is what we use. Shock Box it has been very good.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 18, 2015 10:35:58 GMT -6
Whoaaa. We have a misunderstanding. I do not thing guns are inherently dangerous. My point was that an overzealous parent was more concerned about the most studied sports supplement in the history of the free world than her son having an automatic weapon. In fact, she is more concerned about the material contained in capsules that house supplements more than an automatic weapon. I am anti gun control just for the record. ha. I think there is a sliding scale of danger with things and creatine would be on the benign side rather than the "this does have the potential to kill you" side. You throw out AR15 with the expertise of such an experienced anti-gunner though. Cars are way more dangerous than an AR15 on the potential to kill you scale, but you didn't mention those. Perhaps we're just arguing semantics. I don't know that I really want to hijack this any further, but what benefits does creatine really have these days over any of the other supplements? You're literally the first person in 5 plus years I've heard the word creatine from, much less advocating.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Mar 18, 2015 10:44:08 GMT -6
I agree with fantom here- I don't see anything wrong with what Borlan did. Good for him. He's giving up a big payday to move on in life. Can't argue with that.
I really don't know if there is a solution for the concussion issue today. Maybe the fact that we have SO many more kids playing these days then there were 40 years ago is the issue. IMHO I don't think football is for everyone- not everyone is built for contact. I tend to think that many of these kids I see playing youth ball in our area really have no business being on the field, and it becomes very apparent in middle school.
I will say this- I took all the concussion data from our program's past 4 years and have found one piece of information that stands out. Only around 15% of our football-related concussions occurred in players who played 2+ years of pop warner/middle school in our district. 85% of our concussions occurred in players who had no prior organized-football playing experience.
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