Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 19:58:31 GMT -6
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 20, 2015 20:12:29 GMT -6
You have to have a balance. If you're my coach or teacher and all I'm thinking about is what an a*shole you are, I'm not learning from you.
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Post by coachg13 on Jan 20, 2015 20:26:21 GMT -6
I think it's almost apples to oranges.
In the NFL, you're dealing with grown men being paid to play. They don't have to like a coach, but they damn well better respect him, or they won't have a job for long.
At the high school level you definitely have to have a balance. These are 14-18 year old kids. They aren't out there for a paycheck. I personally am a borderline A-hole as a coach during practice. I have a great rapport with my positional players, but I wouldn't even venture to say they all really like me. The bottom line is though, they know I'm there to get them better both on and off the field. I chased our RB 50 yards down the hall today to tell his a$$ to pull his freaking pants up. He ran a suicide at bball practice for it. he was pissed, but at the end of it we talked about how perception is reality - would you go into an admissions interview for college with your pants at your knees? Or a job interview? Hell no. In those cases we always try to end with a "you better than that" or something to let the kid know that we think highly of him. And that kid had a hell of a day at bball.
I think you can demand respect, but that's after you earn it. If slapass coach Johnny isn't doing his job, is late, etc, and demands respect by trying to be a harda$$, his players are going to shut down on him 99% of the time. In our rough area it's not important whether a kid likes you, it's whether or not he thinks you're there for him. That's about all you get from them at first. Over time I think that turns into "liking" our coaches. It's a tough balance to find. You have to have fun, or kids at the MS and HS levels will tune you out. that's what's great and frustrating, we're often more psychologists that football coaches.
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Post by dubber on Jan 20, 2015 21:36:31 GMT -6
Respect is all that matters.
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nhs40
Freshmen Member
Posts: 64
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Post by nhs40 on Jan 21, 2015 8:22:03 GMT -6
I had numerous coaches that I played for that at the time I thought were a$$holes. However, looking back I understand that they were pushing me for my best and weren't going to be satisfied with anything they thought was less. Though, then I didn't think I liked them, I did (and still do) hold them with the highest respect. Further, I still stay in contact with most of them and "bounce" ideas off of them from time to time. All good men that established those high expectations and demands. Sometimes age and wisdom help us to have a little clarity (in no way am I insinuating wisdom though).
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Post by veerman on Jan 21, 2015 8:58:19 GMT -6
Bad thing in pro sports is players don't have to respect their coaches in a lot of places. The Pats are an exception, but lots of places in pro sports players can get a coach fired if they want to.
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Post by msirishman on Jan 21, 2015 9:14:23 GMT -6
I don't think they have to like you, but it sure doesn't hurt.
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Post by CS on Jan 21, 2015 9:17:49 GMT -6
I think it depends on your situation also. At some schools they have to like you or they won't play. I think you can be liked and be hard on the kids.
The example that coachg gave previously is something that I do all the time, but I know the kids like me because I don't hammer their a$$ for every little thing.
Kids want discipline IMO but you can carry it to far into the being an "a$$hole" realm
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Post by msirishman on Jan 21, 2015 9:31:00 GMT -6
My kids love me, they think I'm batshit crazy, but they know I'll go to bat for them and they do the same for me. Like others have said, you can be as tough on them as you want, as long as they know you care about them and have their best interests in mind.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 21, 2015 9:36:11 GMT -6
I would say it important to be liked. I'm a younger assistant guy and have a hard time pulling off that bada$$ coach persona just because it's not my personality. I do most of my coaching in the weight room. An an easy way to earn some respect as a younger coach in my opinion is to lift with your players. In between sets you can build that relationship, show you are a person, and grunting out reps with them goes a long way with the younger kids. I'm quite a bit stronger than most of the kids ( by no means Mr Olympia) and when I tell them I've trained this way my whole life, it helps buy in with the weight program. After 4 years of subtle brainwashing onto my guys in a non threatening way, we are on the same wavelength and are usually operating how I want them.
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Post by coachg13 on Jan 21, 2015 9:48:12 GMT -6
All it is really is finding a balance - half of our players, if you chew their ass out for doing something, but walking in from practice ask them who's going to win the national championship game, you literally go from being public enemy #1 to their best friend in less that 15 mins bc their attention span is so small. Always try to end with a positive conversation - that's the last memory they have of you for the day. If they end the day "liking" you, it makes your life a whole hell of a lot easier the next day.
Just another example - We have another RB, good, nice, kid, But he'd take the easy way out as soon as you turn your back. His first year on varsity, we were worst enemies from 3:15 - 5:15 every day. I pushed him harder than anyone, whether that's fair, I don't know, or really care - he was lazy and damnit I was gonna fix that. For 2 hours every day he hated me, I know he did, but he respected me. That season, walking to the locker room I'd ask him "did you get better today?" every single day I think. He'd say "yes, sir" and I'd say "I think you did too". Positive ending - he knew I thought highly of him and I pushed him to improve that day.
Now he says that stuff to the younger kids...it's annoying...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 10:35:20 GMT -6
All it is really is finding a balance - half of our players, if you chew their ass out for doing something, but walking in from practice ask them who's going to win the national championship game, you literally go from being public enemy #1 to their best friend in less that 15 mins bc their attention span is so small. Always try to end with a positive conversation - that's the last memory they have of you for the day. If they end the day "liking" you, it makes your life a whole hell of a lot easier the next day. Just another example - We have another RB, good, nice, kid, But he'd take the easy way out as soon as you turn your back. His first year on varsity, we were worst enemies from 3:15 - 5:15 every day. I pushed him harder than anyone, whether that's fair, I don't know, or really care - he was lazy and damnit I was gonna fix that. For 2 hours every day he hated me, I know he did, but he respected me. That season, walking to the locker room I'd ask him "did you get better today?" every single day I think. He'd say "yes, sir" and I'd say "I think you did too". Positive ending - he knew I thought highly of him and I pushed him to improve that day. Now he says that stuff to the younger kids...it's annoying... Coach, that is what is important at the end of the day. Kids do no come out to be lectured, made to feel good. They have other venues to get to those emotion, feelings, words. They are at practice to be football players. I believe a lot of what they think of you is based on the purpose of why they are out at practice. Did you make them better football players and on a daily basis. That has carryover to everyday living that goes way beyond the football field. As a coach you are doing what you talk about, and they can hear the words and see it in your actions.
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 21, 2015 10:55:27 GMT -6
I don't really care if they like me. I didn't chose the profession to build my self esteem by gaining the approval of teenagers. Hades, there are some that I don't like very much. Respect comes from being competent in my job and expecting them to be the same.
The key is building relationships. A natural byproduct of relationships will be that the individuals will continue the relationships that they gain satisfaction.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 21, 2015 11:49:01 GMT -6
They absolutely need to respect you. In the process of gaining that respect they may not like you at times, but if they know you have the team and individual's best intentions in mind most will see themselves as a piece of something bigger and more important. If you get them here, they'll deal with tough decisions you make in a more receptive manner.
I have found that (even with good intentions) coaches fail to reach their players in three ways:
-Sarcasm -Being untruthful -Favoritism
Sarcasm is a slap in a kid's face. If you coach/communicate this way- stop...it makes you look like an a$$hole. Being truthful to kids about where they stand is a priority for me. Be transparent in your thinking. If they do good, tell them; if they don't pull their weight- tell them. An example is I post a "MIA" (Missing in Action) list on our website of all kids who are unaccounted for during the offseason i.e. not playing a sport AND not in the weight room. It's posted for all to plainly see. If you are MIA your status on the team is in jeopardy. No secrets within the family...no favoritism. If a starter goes MIA he'll suffer the same as a non-starter.
As others have stated- create healthy coach-player relationships with solid boundaries and you can't go wrong.
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Post by Rooster on Jan 21, 2015 13:10:33 GMT -6
I have seen it done both ways and for me I had kids that respected me and those liked/loved me. Hell I loved them all. Told them all the time I loved them, then I would go work their @ss off. I know some successful programs where the coaches where just unapproachable, but they were respected. Then there are programs where the coaches are just hanging out with the kids, being laid back, etc. And those kids play like there hair is on fire...
For me, I want both. You cant be buddies, you have to be a professional. But when it comes foxhole time you know deep down that kid that loves you is gonna give you a hell of a lot more than the kid that is scared of you.
Rooster
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Post by Defcord on Jan 21, 2015 14:02:55 GMT -6
I think by nature when working with 50-100+ young men you are going to run into some kids that like you and some kids that do not like you.
I think you can be successful without kids like you, but I don't think it's very much fun nor as rewarding. My first head coaching job was in baseball. I took over a team that had won no more than 8 games in a season the previous 10 years. I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I had been an assistant coach in both baseball in football for about 4 years each when I took the job. Right away I had to make a lot of tough decisions (letting players go, sitting kids for various reasons). I almost retaliated felt like I was in competition with the players. I was a hardasss for sure. My first year we only won 4 games. I sucked and team sucked, mostly because of my coaching and a lack of talent. I told them all we were going to work our way out of it. I worked them hard. And not one kid on that team liked me. When they didn't drill hard enough or consistent enough I ran them A LOT. Our second year our two best players transferred but we won 10 games. I told them we were going to work even harder and I yelled as much as they ran (I was clueless). Since we won a few more games maybe a kid or two liked me. Our third year we turned a corner. I still worked them hard and yelled too much but we got pretty good. We won 16 games (most in 12 years at the school) and beat two state ranked teams to get to the sectional championship game before concluding our season. A few kids liked me at that point; probably not many more respected me.
To conclude a long story: sometimes they don't like you nor respect you but they love themselves and the game enough to override it all. I think that team got a ton out of their talent and had relative success. I improved greatly from the experience as well and I know I didn't really like them all that much. I am not sure if we could have gotten more out of if we all liked each other or not, but I did learn and change as a coach because of it.
I value my players and their opinions a lot more a decade later. I do now want them to like and respect me because I think it makes the whole experience a lot more enjoyable.
One final thought: Since I had my son I have always tried to coach every kid the same way I would want my son coached. I tell them all I don't need you to like me I have enough friends. I also stole this from George W. Bush and tell my kids this "I am not going to stop loving so stop trying to make me." I love my players and did even when I was an A-Hole, but now I am better at the balance part.
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Post by joelee on Jan 21, 2015 14:05:26 GMT -6
Nothing turns kids off faster than belittling, sarcasm, lying, and favoritism. Outside that you can yell or not yell as much as you want to on our staff.
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Post by olcoach53 on Jan 21, 2015 17:22:43 GMT -6
I think it is better to start out stern and get loose as the year goes on. That way the kids know when you mean business you MEAN business.
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Post by coachklee on Jan 21, 2015 20:53:33 GMT -6
All it is really is finding a balance - half of our players, if you chew their ass out for doing something, but walking in from practice ask them who's going to win the national championship game, you literally go from being public enemy #1 to their best friend in less that 15 mins bc their attention span is so small. Always try to end with a positive conversation - that's the last memory they have of you for the day. If they end the day "liking" you, it makes your life a whole hell of a lot easier the next day. Just another example - We have another RB, good, nice, kid, But he'd take the easy way out as soon as you turn your back. His first year on varsity, we were worst enemies from 3:15 - 5:15 every day. I pushed him harder than anyone, whether that's fair, I don't know, or really care - he was lazy and damnit I was gonna fix that. For 2 hours every day he hated me, I know he did, but he respected me. That season, walking to the locker room I'd ask him "did you get better today?" every single day I think. He'd say "yes, sir" and I'd say "I think you did too". Positive ending - he knew I thought highly of him and I pushed him to improve that day. Now he says that stuff to the younger kids...it's annoying... This is what shows you've made at least a small impact...when your players become additional coaches & leaders of each other. I'm still working on that at the program I joined this summer.
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 22, 2015 8:51:32 GMT -6
I enjoy it much more when I have players that enjoy who I am. I had a couple this year that I could have done without. I am sure they felt the same way.
The rest of the guys were great. we had a lot of laughs together.
respect matters and the kids character matters .....these things are a two way street.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Jan 22, 2015 10:37:39 GMT -6
As a head coach I feel they need to like you some, respect you 100%, and fear you a little.
I think even the kids that don't like me because of PT or they're at OG and think they're a WR at least respect that I'm the boss and that I'm there all day every day at every practice, workout, etc and never miss a moment that I don't have to miss which is because of the on campus crap I deal with.
Some of them find me funny, some think I'm crazy, some are too scared to think about me at all.
They can see straight through BS. I think I've shown I know my stuff and when I'm wrong or mess up- I'm honest.
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 22, 2015 11:15:19 GMT -6
I will add that holding them accountable, discipline, ownership of choices - those things have to happen, every time and I go nuts when my assistant coaches prefer to be "boyz" with one of the kid instead of behind his coach.
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Post by coachphillip on Jan 22, 2015 13:55:13 GMT -6
They don't have to like you, but it sure as heck helps.
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 22, 2015 14:37:37 GMT -6
While they don't have to (I've had mutual hate for a select few over 9 years)
A kid plays a lot better when he starts playing "for you"
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Post by natenator on Jan 22, 2015 14:47:49 GMT -6
I don't want a kid to play for me.
I want a kid to play for his brothers and himself
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Post by coachphillip on Jan 22, 2015 15:04:51 GMT -6
I think this question gets asked a lot and I don't like it. "Do your players have to like you?" No, not necessarily. But, we all get along better at work when our boss isn't a total a$$hat. The same goes for football. You should never change the way you are so that you're more liked by teenagers, but you should never change being authentic ever.
If you have the respect of a kid it's because you have his best interest at heart, you have the team's best interest at heart, you are fair, and you are good at what you do. If you do all those things, then the kid WILL like you ... even when you bump heads. I feel a kid, deep down, has to like you to respect you because he respects what he likes about you. I do not think that a kid has to respect someone to "like" them. Kids like pushovers. That's a different kind of "like". Kids like us because we're genuine. That's something they respect.
Inversely, if you're a DBag just to be one, kids probably don't like or respect you very much at all. Just like you shouldn't go out of your way to be overly liked, don't go out of your way to be "macho, extra tough, super hard a$$ man". Kids hate that and will not do a damn thing for you.
In short, be yourself bro. If they like you, fantastic. If they don't, you're probably not meant to be best buddies somewhere down the road ... WHO CARES! Kids will like most men that they respect.
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Post by coachphillip on Jan 22, 2015 15:07:18 GMT -6
For those of us who grew up with the "super tough love" coach, we still believed he had our best interest at heart. Otherwise, we wouldn't have put up with his jacka$$ery. Oh, and odds are good, there was at least ONE guy you gravitated towards on that staff that was somebody you liked.
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Post by newt21 on Jan 22, 2015 15:51:11 GMT -6
The kids don't have to like you, but they'll play harder if they do. This doesn't mean that you should be their friend, they have plenty of those. It means being someone they can look up to as a mentor. It means being a man of your word, that you wouldn't ask them to do something you wouldn't be willing to do. Leaders LEAD the way, they don't show the way.
On another note, I DEFINITELY play favorites as a coach. I favor the kids who bust their tail in practice and don't act like fools in the school or in public. I tell the kids if they're unhappy with their playing time, to earn it in practice and if they don't put in the work all week then they won't get to show what they can do in the game.
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Post by bigduke6 on Jan 22, 2015 16:23:30 GMT -6
fellas, for those of us that are HS coaches "FUN" has to be a big part of why you coach.
How could you want to coach HS football if you know your kids don't like you.
I ask the question, what are you doing that makes the kids NOT like you?
If you are a constant critic, "take a lap", humiliation tactic, etc... type of coach bc you think thats what will make the kids play harder, I bet you have a program where the kids don't like you.
You can have fun, and be a successful coach. Thats the "art" of coaching.
Just my opinion. I've played for both, I've coached for both.
I like the Pete Carrol approach as opposed to the Saban approach even though I think they are both the best at what they do.
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 22, 2015 21:28:26 GMT -6
My guys like me, but that's not because I do anything to develop that, I'm just super f***ing likable.
One of my assistants last year told me, "Before you, I've never seen anyone be all tough love, all the time" and he's right. I'm demanding and strict and do my best to make them accountable for what I want them to be doing. But I know that they like that about me, they like that I see them as having potential above what they see.
That said, I'm funny and weird and loud and brash and they like that, too.
Like I said, I'm just super f***ing likable.
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