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Post by CS on Aug 3, 2014 5:10:51 GMT -6
Fantom what do you tell to your player that comes to you and tells you that he is failing Mr. SOB's class bc he won't keep the required notebook. He doesn't need to and he can prove it. He does just fine on all the tests. He obviously all ready knows the required material. But Mr. SOB has made it a requirement to keep a notebook or portfolio. What then? This is a ridiculous point you're trying to make. You're comparing an assignment that clearly has a purpose in teaching a concept or reinforcing a concept to having to sit through mindless lectures on laws we already know and getting charged to get a background check more than once from the same school!! I make it a point not to waste my kids time in practice because nobody likes it. And also he wasn't saying he didn't do it. He was saying that he hated doing it. If you like shelling out 50 bucks then great! I don't.
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Post by coach2013 on Aug 3, 2014 6:38:48 GMT -6
We work with kids. Am I the only one here who thinks that a school board asking that we go through background checks is not ridiculous? I wonder if every guest speaker that visits a school gets fingerprinted and fbi background checks done?
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Post by lions23 on Aug 3, 2014 7:08:44 GMT -6
Fantom what do you tell to your player that comes to you and tells you that he is failing Mr. SOB's class bc he won't keep the required notebook. He doesn't need to and he can prove it. He does just fine on all the tests. He obviously all ready knows the required material. But Mr. SOB has made it a requirement to keep a notebook or portfolio. What then? This is a ridiculous point you're trying to make. You're comparing an assignment that clearly has a purpose in teaching a concept or reinforcing a concept to having to sit through mindless lectures on laws we already know and getting charged to get a background check more than once from the same school!! I make it a point not to waste my kids time in practice because nobody likes it. And also he wasn't saying he didn't do it. He was saying that he hated doing it. If you like shelling out 50 bucks then great! I don't. Perhaps if your admin is forcing you to sit through these trainings annually they are trying to reinforce important concepts as well. fantom again just a guess, but I'm guessing you are not the debate teacher. I guess I just choose to look at these situations differently. For me I am one of the first people in 4 generations of American family that had a choice to truly do what I really love. I feel blessed to have that opportunity. I'm not going to let perfection be the enemy of a pretty great opportunity to have a large impact on kids. To borrow from Maya Angelou-the way I see it you have three choices. You can complain about it. You can choose to fight to change it. Or you can choose to think about the situation differently. For me It's not the worst thing in the world that I have to do some of these tasks. I don't necessarily like the tasks but I choose to look at it differently. I spend my energy fighting to change kids lives and teach them about the opportunities that they could have through hard work. There are some steps I have to take to get that opportunity. Whenever there is one of these in services that maybe doesn't speak to my personal needs I just try to remember why I got into this profession in the first place. I remember my dad shoveling coal into boilers and then it isn't so bad. Most of us have a union. Talk to your rep about getting reimbursed or documenting the contents of your in services as to deal with the repetition Or happy complaining and resenting that's your choice too.
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Post by jlenwood on Aug 3, 2014 7:21:27 GMT -6
This is a ridiculous point you're trying to make. You're comparing an assignment that clearly has a purpose in teaching a concept or reinforcing a concept to having to sit through mindless lectures on laws we already know and getting charged to get a background check more than once from the same school!! I make it a point not to waste my kids time in practice because nobody likes it. And also he wasn't saying he didn't do it. He was saying that he hated doing it. If you like shelling out 50 bucks then great! I don't. Perhaps if your admin is forcing you to sit through these trainings annually they are trying to reinforce important concepts as well. fantom again just a guess, but I'm guessing you are not the debate teacher. I guess I just choose to look at these situations differently. For me I am one of the first people in 4 generations of American family that had a choice to truly do what I really love. I feel blessed to have that opportunity. I'm not going to let perfection be the enemy of a pretty great opportunity to have a large impact on kids. To borrow from Maya Angelou-the way I see it you have three choices. You can complain about it. You can choose to fight to change it. Or you can choose to think about the situation differently. For me It's not the worst thing in the world that I have to do some of these tasks. I don't necessarily like the tasks but I choose to look at it differently. I spend my energy fighting to change kids lives and teach them about the opportunities that they could have through hard work. There are some steps I have to take to get that opportunity. Whenever there is one of these in services that maybe doesn't speak to my personal needs I just try to remember why I got into this profession in the first place. I remember my dad shoveling coal into boilers and then it isn't so bad. Most of us have a union. Talk to your rep about getting reimbursed or documenting the contents of your in services as to deal with the repetition Or happy complaining and resenting that's your choice too. Easy fellas....no need to get salty with each other. lions23, I think you missed the point of my OP. I set thru the classes, take the CPR, do the fingerprint and on and on. OK, lets make sure we aren't hiring ax murderers-I get that. But so much of our time and resources are either wasted or not utilized to their fullest because of mindless bureaucracies, that after a while it just does not make sense to me. In Ohio we have to do the "Fundamentals of Coaching" course on the NFHS web site. This is a tremendous example of what fantom is speaking of. This is a 4 hour or so online course that is the equivalent of telling a brain surgeon (I am not saying coaches are brain surgeons!) to take a 4 hour course on applying a bandage.....it is a waste of time (mine) and resource (my time and money) to take. My OP was the example of individuals who can be of great benefit to the same kids whose "lives we are trying to change" thru football, yet because somewhere down the road some volunteer coach touched some girls butt or something, everyone (in the mind of all cowardly administrators) is a potential child rapist. At what point do we stand up and say enough of this foolishness?
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Post by fantom on Aug 3, 2014 7:40:58 GMT -6
Most of us have a union. Talk to your rep about getting reimbursed or documenting the contents of your in services as to deal with the repetition You don't live in the south do you?
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Post by fantom on Aug 3, 2014 8:01:32 GMT -6
This is a ridiculous point you're trying to make. You're comparing an assignment that clearly has a purpose in teaching a concept or reinforcing a concept to having to sit through mindless lectures on laws we already know and getting charged to get a background check more than once from the same school!! I make it a point not to waste my kids time in practice because nobody likes it. And also he wasn't saying he didn't do it. He was saying that he hated doing it. If you like shelling out 50 bucks then great! I don't. Perhaps if your admin is forcing you to sit through these trainings annually they are trying to reinforce important concepts as well. fantom again just a guess, but I'm guessing you are not the debate teacher. I guess I just choose to look at these situations differently. For me I am one of the first people in 4 generations of American family that had a choice to truly do what I really love. I feel blessed to have that opportunity. I'm not going to let perfection be the enemy of a pretty great opportunity to have a large impact on kids. To borrow from Maya Angelou-the way I see it you have three choices. You can complain about it. You can choose to fight to change it. Or you can choose to think about the situation differently. For me It's not the worst thing in the world that I have to do some of these tasks. I don't necessarily like the tasks but I choose to look at it differently. I spend my energy fighting to change kids lives and teach them about the opportunities that they could have through hard work. There are some steps I have to take to get that opportunity. Whenever there is one of these in services that maybe doesn't speak to my personal needs I just try to remember why I got into this profession in the first place. I remember my dad shoveling coal into boilers and then it isn't so bad. Most of us have a union. Talk to your rep about getting reimbursed or documenting the contents of your in services as to deal with the repetition Or happy complaining and resenting that's your choice too. BTW, you noticed that You're not replying to me there, right? For the record, no, I do not coach debate. I don't know if Coachsmyly does. You'll have to ask him.
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Post by blb on Aug 3, 2014 8:29:25 GMT -6
Every year teachers (and to lesser extent coaches) have to do more and more that has little to no impact on classroom learning-achievement.
And are getting compensated less and less.
Worst thing we did to Education in this country was start treating it like a business instead of a service, thanks to the politicians.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 3, 2014 9:07:53 GMT -6
Coach, I get what you're saying here but.......you are basically saying you are going to do what you want to do even if you know you're not supposed to & your boss wouldn't approve. Furthermore, you are essentially encouraging former players to be somewhat deceitful. Would you except that behavior from your assistants if they were doing things they knew you wouldn't want them doing? Would you encourage current players to be deceitful? I get it, better to ask for forgiveness than permission, but to openly encourage deceit is a bit "dicey" IMO. I think that type of stuff is why admin don't always trust us then a bunch of us get on here and complain about the admin. being unreasonable. That relationship cuts both ways. Just sayin'. Deceitful is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Do you consider counter or a reverse deceitful because it misleads someone? Look, if I truly believe that a rule is stupid or wrong or bad, then no, I have no problem telling a player or anyone else to ignore it. As far as my assistants are concerned, as long as they do their job and don't involve the kids in whatever it is they do outside of the team setting, I don't give two craps what they as adults get into. Personally, I find it funny when coaches complain about admins just wanting to CYA when they only reason they even know about the situation is because you told them to CYA. Unless there's a fence around your school with only one gate in and out, 90% of all administrators in America have absolutely no idea who is or isn't at practice or what's going on out there.
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Post by CS on Aug 3, 2014 10:33:55 GMT -6
This is a ridiculous point you're trying to make. You're comparing an assignment that clearly has a purpose in teaching a concept or reinforcing a concept to having to sit through mindless lectures on laws we already know and getting charged to get a background check more than once from the same school!! I make it a point not to waste my kids time in practice because nobody likes it. And also he wasn't saying he didn't do it. He was saying that he hated doing it. If you like shelling out 50 bucks then great! I don't. Perhaps if your admin is forcing you to sit through these trainings annually they are trying to reinforce important concepts as well. fantom again just a guess, but I'm guessing you are not the debate teacher. I guess I just choose to look at these situations differently. For me I am one of the first people in 4 generations of American family that had a choice to truly do what I really love. I feel blessed to have that opportunity. I'm not going to let perfection be the enemy of a pretty great opportunity to have a large impact on kids. To borrow from Maya Angelou-the way I see it you have three choices. You can complain about it. You can choose to fight to change it. Or you can choose to think about the situation differently. For me It's not the worst thing in the world that I have to do some of these tasks. I don't necessarily like the tasks but I choose to look at it differently. I spend my energy fighting to change kids lives and teach them about the opportunities that they could have through hard work. There are some steps I have to take to get that opportunity. Whenever there is one of these in services that maybe doesn't speak to my personal needs I just try to remember why I got into this profession in the first place. I remember my dad shoveling coal into boilers and then it isn't so bad. Most of us have a union. Talk to your rep about getting reimbursed or documenting the contents of your in services as to deal with the repetition Or happy complaining and resenting that's your choice too. Holy crap get over yourself. I read this like you were trying to pitch your life story to miramax or something. I actually teach middle school science and enjoy it. But I wouldn't teach my students what a river or a mountain is because they already know that. That would be wasting their time, my time and the schools resources and the admin would probably want to know why I was teaching the kids stuff they learned in 1st grade. When you bring people in and rehash things they already know you are wasting time. Period. And the only thing that the admins are reinforcing is the fact that if they are sued they are covered. Hopefully there isn't a coach here that doesn't enjoy working with kids and teaching them life lessons but that doesn't mean that they love the politics of it all. You may choose to look at things differently but when I see sh!t I call it sh!t.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 3, 2014 10:43:52 GMT -6
Holy crap get over yourself. I read this like you were trying to pitch your life story to miramax or something. I actually teach middle school science and enjoy it. But I wouldn't teach my students what a river or a mountain is because they already know that. That would be wasting their time, my time and the schools resources and the admin would probably want to know why I was teaching the kids stuff they learned in 1st grade. When you bring people in and rehash things they already know you are wasting time. Period. And the only thing that the admins are reinforcing is the fact that if they are sued they are covered. Hopefully there isn't a coach here that doesn't enjoy working with kids and teaching them life lessons but that doesn't mean that they love the politics of it all. You may choose to look at things differently but when I see sh!t I call it sh!t. While I agree with the frustrations and often feel like strangling cats during in-services and professional development activities that don't apply or are redundant, I do have to ask, don't you teach tackling to all of your kids the same...day one step one? Don't you install your O/D the same...day one step one? 4th year senior who has started for 3 years get the same lesson as the new underclassmen? If so...why?
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Post by mahonz on Aug 3, 2014 11:19:17 GMT -6
You are smarter than most.
Should've made it clear I'm not a youth coach.
Yes, I know. My point was a person that was once young and dumb and full of vinegar shouldn't have to keep explaining why he was young dumb and full of vinegar so long after the fact. Its the age of the computer I guess. Nothing ever goes away. Thankfully Im too old to have my young dumb and full of vinegar record following me around. I was a dumba$$ there for a while.
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Post by fantom on Aug 3, 2014 11:45:22 GMT -6
Holy crap get over yourself. I read this like you were trying to pitch your life story to miramax or something. I actually teach middle school science and enjoy it. But I wouldn't teach my students what a river or a mountain is because they already know that. That would be wasting their time, my time and the schools resources and the admin would probably want to know why I was teaching the kids stuff they learned in 1st grade. When you bring people in and rehash things they already know you are wasting time. Period. And the only thing that the admins are reinforcing is the fact that if they are sued they are covered. Hopefully there isn't a coach here that doesn't enjoy working with kids and teaching them life lessons but that doesn't mean that they love the politics of it all. You may choose to look at things differently but when I see sh!t I call it sh!t. While I agree with the frustrations and often feel like strangling cats during in-services and professional development activities that don't apply or are redundant, I do have to ask, don't you teach tackling to all of your kids the same...day one step one? Don't you install your O/D the same...day one step one? 4th year senior who has started for 3 years get the same lesson as the new underclassmen? If so...why? I was particularly irked about this one for a couple of reasons: 1. Two-a-days start tomorrow. There won't be a lot of free weekends from now on. 2. Because of budget problems they've cut our stipends 25%. How much did they pay that speaker? He wasn't a local guy. They flew him in from Kansas.
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Post by jlenwood on Aug 3, 2014 11:59:23 GMT -6
Personally, I find it funny when coaches complain about admins just wanting to CYA when they only reason they even know about the situation is because you told them to CYA. Unless there's a fence around your school with only one gate in and out, 90% of all administrators in America have absolutely no idea who is or isn't at practice or what's going on out there. Our practice field is wide open and surrounded on 2 sides by housing, the other side is a road. One of the BOE members who is the most against outside help travels this road to their home every day around practice time. If something is going on, I am sure they will see it and let us know.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 3, 2014 12:16:52 GMT -6
You have four options- You can ignore them and do it how you apparently want to, you can get them approved, you can leave or you can just continue to complain about it.
Here's the thing, instead of trying to find a way to make it work, all you keep doing is telling me how it isn't going to. If it's that big of a deal to you, find a way to make it happen. Otherwise, it isn't that big of a deal to you.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 3, 2014 12:21:19 GMT -6
Yes, I know. My point was a person that was once young and dumb and full of vinegar shouldn't have to keep explaining why he was young dumb and full of vinegar so long after the fact. Its the age of the computer I guess. Nothing ever goes away. Thankfully Im too old to have my young dumb and full of vinegar record following me around. I was a dumba$$ there for a while. I cringe at this line of thinking. 1. No, not everyone was a dumbass as a kid. 2. I've found that the ones that were dumbasses as kids are way more likely to be dumbasses as adults- I have no issue with them being around my players/kids. 3. If someone has something on their record in the way of a background check, that isn't just being young and dumb. That's a serious problem. It's not that hard to go through life without getting arrested or questioned by police. The fact that someone has something that would show up on a record just further shows they shouldn't be around kids.
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Post by dubber on Aug 3, 2014 12:23:37 GMT -6
jlenwood, I hear you about how frustrating it is, but this is just the schoolboard trying to play "CYA." Last year I was at a school where a 25 year old former player came back and volunteered to coach with us after a stint in the military. He was a decorated war hero and everyone in the community rallied around him as he lost his mother to a long fight with cancer. Well... it turned out that while he was here, he was also treating the cheerleading squad as his own personal harem. He had affairs with two different 15 year olds during the season and got busted coming onto a third. Luckily for the district, it was a small town and everyone involved decided not to pursue charges in light of who the guy was and what he meant to the community, on condition that he immediately stay away from those girls and all future activities at the school.
I am sorry.
Losing your mother to cancer and fighting for our country DOES NOT mean you can commit statutory rape.
That type of leadership will make for a HUGE lawsuit later, and these incidences of prior rug sweeping will add a zero to the judgment.
Further, what the hell kind of parent says, "Oh, the 25 year old who had sex with my 15 year old daughter is a war hero and lost his mother so I think I will let it slide"?
I would be shocked if this doesn't hit the fan sometime down the road.
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Post by mahonz on Aug 3, 2014 12:39:09 GMT -6
Yes, I know. My point was a person that was once young and dumb and full of vinegar shouldn't have to keep explaining why he was young dumb and full of vinegar so long after the fact. Its the age of the computer I guess. Nothing ever goes away. Thankfully Im too old to have my young dumb and full of vinegar record following me around. I was a dumba$$ there for a while. I cringe at this line of thinking. 1. No, not everyone was a dumbass as a kid. 2. I've found that the ones that were dumbasses as kids are way more likely to be dumbasses as adults- I have no issue with them being around my players/kids. 3. If someone has something on their record in the way of a background check, that isn't just being young and dumb. That's a serious problem. It's not that hard to go through life without getting arrested or questioned by police. The fact that someone has something that would show up on a record just further shows they shouldn't be around kids. I have to disagree. Most of the things I saw on these BG checks seemed rather petty and issues from days gone by. A sometimes life gets in the way kinda things. When stuff happens shouldn't mean you are tagged for life. If stuff keeps happening...I completely agree with you here. If I remember correctly you have younger children yourself. Just wait a while and see if your thought process changes. Society can be awfully tough on kids these days. Didn't used to be that way and why I feel all this CYA stuff going on is counterproductive at times. We are protecting ourselves from the smallest minority possible IMO yet a rather significant majority is getting dinged. Then again...I was happy as can be when my State legalized marijuana. Im not a pot head either but feel that now we can focus our efforts as a society on more important things rather than adding more stuff to a kid's record. I feel the same about BG checks. I am a business owner. Have hired 100's of people over the years. Never ran a BG or Credit check on anyone. Never regretted that decision either because I know no one is perfect.... and that has nothing to do with getting arrested. Just my take. We think differently. I cringe at your I throw stones line of thinking. No biggie.
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Post by CS on Aug 3, 2014 13:13:55 GMT -6
Holy crap get over yourself. I read this like you were trying to pitch your life story to miramax or something. I actually teach middle school science and enjoy it. But I wouldn't teach my students what a river or a mountain is because they already know that. That would be wasting their time, my time and the schools resources and the admin would probably want to know why I was teaching the kids stuff they learned in 1st grade. When you bring people in and rehash things they already know you are wasting time. Period. And the only thing that the admins are reinforcing is the fact that if they are sued they are covered. Hopefully there isn't a coach here that doesn't enjoy working with kids and teaching them life lessons but that doesn't mean that they love the politics of it all. You may choose to look at things differently but when I see sh!t I call it sh!t. While I agree with the frustrations and often feel like strangling cats during in-services and professional development activities that don't apply or are redundant, I do have to ask, don't you teach tackling to all of your kids the same...day one step one? Don't you install your O/D the same...day one step one? 4th year senior who has started for 3 years get the same lesson as the new underclassmen? If so...why? Completely irrelevant to the topic. 1) you are talking about professional development in and I'm not. That's another topic. I'm talking about specific things that coaches in some districts have to deal with because of bureaucracy. I have been in said districts before. 2) you're comparing rehashing of laws to learning skills. When you learn to play an instrument you practice the same skills over and over to become an expert at it. It's the same with fundamentals. I have never seen any senior that couldn't benefit from tackling practice. And if they disagree I have film to show them. Also very few athletes work on those skills year round or even look at a play book or think about scheme. so yeah I teach them those things every year and I may put a new twist on it or I may not. Either way it's still not the same thing as having to take the exact same course online for 50 bucks that you took 2 years ago and teaches you nothing
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Post by s73 on Aug 3, 2014 13:15:14 GMT -6
Coach, I get what you're saying here but.......you are basically saying you are going to do what you want to do even if you know you're not supposed to & your boss wouldn't approve. Furthermore, you are essentially encouraging former players to be somewhat deceitful. Would you except that behavior from your assistants if they were doing things they knew you wouldn't want them doing? Would you encourage current players to be deceitful? I get it, better to ask for forgiveness than permission, but to openly encourage deceit is a bit "dicey" IMO. I think that type of stuff is why admin don't always trust us then a bunch of us get on here and complain about the admin. being unreasonable. That relationship cuts both ways. Just sayin'. Deceitful is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Do you consider counter or a reverse deceitful because it misleads someone? Look, if I truly believe that a rule is stupid or wrong or bad, then no, I have no problem telling a player or anyone else to ignore it. As far as my assistants are concerned, as long as they do their job and don't involve the kids in whatever it is they do outside of the team setting, I don't give two craps what they as adults get into. Personally, I find it funny when coaches complain about admins just wanting to CYA when they only reason they even know about the situation is because you told them to CYA. Unless there's a fence around your school with only one gate in and out, 90% of all administrators in America have absolutely no idea who is or isn't at practice or what's going on out there. Not sure how the term "deceitful" is a stretch here since your advice to the OP was to tell former players to help but pretend like they are not helping if admin. shows up. As for the counter/ reverse analogy, yes it's deceiving, isn't that the point of FOOTBALL ? Aren't we trying to strategize v. our opponents? The football field is an appropriate venue for such tactics. Not so sure I can say the same for the lives of our players. As for the "I have no problem telling players to ignore rules I think are stupid" I can only say that I hope their parents are in agreement w/ your values. My point about bringing up your assistants was exactly for the comment you made above. What if you have a rule you expect to be followed but your assistants think it's dumb & tell your players they don't have to follow it unless you are around, then pretend to do so until you leave? Would you like your assistants pulling that garbage on you? Very subversive line of thinking you are promoting here. JMO. PS - For the record, I too think the rule is dumb, but encouraging young men in our care to ignore rules they don't agree w/ is irresponsible at best. If you approach kids that way then how are you going to correct them when they violate any of your rules they find dumb? Again, JMO.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 3, 2014 16:58:56 GMT -6
I don't make any rules on top of what the arlthletic code has in it. It would be really hard for the staff to break my rules.
As far as the athletic code is concerned, there were some things i disagreed with. I told the principal and we, along with the other coaches agreed to change them.
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souza12
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by souza12 on Aug 3, 2014 17:29:44 GMT -6
Just saying anything I have ever done working there has been things like this you have to do. I pour drafts at the concert venue and had to sit through a sexual harassment video, read 12 pages of docs about over serving, and sit through 3 hours of orientation about filling out a time card and greeting people politely. All common sense stuff You're comparing Apples to Oranges. Coaching is a totally different "job" than a customer service job. Coaching is not a job where someone is expecting compensation commensurate with their efforts and qualifications. The hoops you describe above for customer service apply for that of a job where it is going to be your primary income that you live off of. On top of all that, you get paid for all those training sessions where as coaches need to pay for their own training and even fingerprints where I am at. One could say that you sign up to be a coach and all that noise, but I believe the OP's point is that it is driving people away from coaching, which is not a good thing. BTW, you come across smug as hell.
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Post by fantom on Aug 3, 2014 17:34:25 GMT -6
Just saying anything I have ever done working there has been things like this you have to do. I pour drafts at the concert venue and had to sit through a sexual harassment video, read 12 pages of docs about over serving, and sit through 3 hours of orientation about filling out a time card and greeting people politely. All common sense stuff You're comparing Apples to Oranges. Coaching is a totally different "job" than a customer service job. Coaching is not a job where someone is expecting compensation commensurate with their efforts and qualifications. The hoops you describe above do. On top of all that, you get paid for all those training sessions where as coaches need to pay for their own training and even fingerprints where I am at. BTW, you come across smug as hell. It occurs to me that when you're an hourly employee- and I've had more hourly jobs than I can count- you get paid for watching videos.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 3, 2014 17:48:13 GMT -6
While I agree with the frustrations and often feel like strangling cats during in-services and professional development activities that don't apply or are redundant, I do have to ask, don't you teach tackling to all of your kids the same...day one step one? Don't you install your O/D the same...day one step one? 4th year senior who has started for 3 years get the same lesson as the new underclassmen? If so...why? Completely irrelevant to the topic. 1) you are talking about professional development in and I'm not. That's another topic. I'm talking about specific things that coaches in some districts have to deal with because of bureaucracy. I have been in said districts before. 2) you're comparing rehashing of laws to learning skills. When you learn to play an instrument you practice the same skills over and over to become an expert at it. It's the same with fundamentals. I have never seen any senior that couldn't benefit from tackling practice. And if they disagree I have film to show them. Also very few athletes work on those skills year round or even look at a play book or think about scheme. so yeah I teach them those things every year and I may put a new twist on it or I may not. Either way it's still not the same thing as having to take the exact same course online for 50 bucks that you took 2 years ago and teaches you nothing Again, from the point of view of the district-- taking the online course IS professional development. I am not saying it is beneficial-- but I would not say it is completely irrelevant to what you are complaining about. I am simply saying that We as coaches tend to teach things (scheme, skill, philosophy, rules..whatever) the same..day one step one for everyone. The seniors hear the same intros to scheme and drills and such as the new freshman. From the district's perspective... that is what they are doing. And it sucks. My point is...should we examine what WE as coaches do a bit differently? Do we make others feel the same way?
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Post by CS on Aug 3, 2014 18:53:56 GMT -6
Completely irrelevant to the topic. 1) you are talking about professional development in and I'm not. That's another topic. I'm talking about specific things that coaches in some districts have to deal with because of bureaucracy. I have been in said districts before. 2) you're comparing rehashing of laws to learning skills. When you learn to play an instrument you practice the same skills over and over to become an expert at it. It's the same with fundamentals. I have never seen any senior that couldn't benefit from tackling practice. And if they disagree I have film to show them. Also very few athletes work on those skills year round or even look at a play book or think about scheme. so yeah I teach them those things every year and I may put a new twist on it or I may not. Either way it's still not the same thing as having to take the exact same course online for 50 bucks that you took 2 years ago and teaches you nothing Again, from the point of view of the district-- taking the online course IS professional development. I am not saying it is beneficial-- but I would not say it is completely irrelevant to what you are complaining about. I am simply saying that We as coaches tend to teach things (scheme, skill, philosophy, rules..whatever) the same..day one step one for everyone. The seniors hear the same intros to scheme and drills and such as the new freshman. From the district's perspective... that is what they are doing. And it sucks. My point is...should we examine what WE as coaches do a bit differently? Do we make others feel the same way? Personally, I don't believe that's what they feel they are doing. I believe they are made to do something and they do it. Now I see your point and it's really an interesting thought process. i do feel that with teaching skills there is always learning. Plus you can get the guys who have been around to help you teach it to the younger athletes. Doing that gives them a deeper understanding as well as stimulates learning. Again much different from the things I'm referencing
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Post by s73 on Aug 3, 2014 19:41:21 GMT -6
I don't make any rules on top of what the arlthletic code has in it. It would be really hard for the staff to break my rules. As far as the athletic code is concerned, there were some things i disagreed with. I told the principal and we, along with the other coaches agreed to change them. That I agree with. You don't like something try to change it rather than go on the sly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 21:08:00 GMT -6
jlenwood, I hear you about how frustrating it is, but this is just the schoolboard trying to play "CYA." Last year I was at a school where a 25 year old former player came back and volunteered to coach with us after a stint in the military. He was a decorated war hero and everyone in the community rallied around him as he lost his mother to a long fight with cancer. Well... it turned out that while he was here, he was also treating the cheerleading squad as his own personal harem. He had affairs with two different 15 year olds during the season and got busted coming onto a third. Luckily for the district, it was a small town and everyone involved decided not to pursue charges in light of who the guy was and what he meant to the community, on condition that he immediately stay away from those girls and all future activities at the school.
I am sorry.
Losing your mother to cancer and fighting for our country DOES NOT mean you can commit statutory rape.
That type of leadership will make for a HUGE lawsuit later, and these incidences of prior rug sweeping will add a zero to the judgment.
Further, what the hell kind of parent says, "Oh, the 25 year old who had sex with my 15 year old daughter is a war hero and lost his mother so I think I will let it slide"?
I would be shocked if this doesn't hit the fan sometime down the road. I expect it to. I'm no longer working there and stuff like that was a big reason why. I had friends from college who grew up there and would always crack jokes about how messed up the community was and how crooked the police and local government were or what bizarre stuff was allowed to happen without a word from anyone. Then I started working there and realized they weren't stretching the truth a bit. It's something in the culture there... I don't get it. I could go on and on about what I saw or found out about in that place at length, but this is not the forum for that. I frankly have no idea why the girls' parents didn't make a bigger issue once this stuff came to light. Maybe they thought the attention would be worse than going through the legal process or whatever. Some very inappropriate stuff clearly did happen and there was tons of evidence proving it, which is the last I'll say about it.
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Post by coachklee on Aug 4, 2014 12:34:43 GMT -6
Again, from the point of view of the district-- taking the online course IS professional development. I am not saying it is beneficial-- but I would not say it is completely irrelevant to what you are complaining about. I am simply saying that We as coaches tend to teach things (scheme, skill, philosophy, rules..whatever) the same..day one step one for everyone. The seniors hear the same intros to scheme and drills and such as the new freshman. From the district's perspective... that is what they are doing. And it sucks. My point is...should we examine what WE as coaches do a bit differently? Do we make others feel the same way? Personally, I don't believe that's what they feel they are doing. I believe they are made to do something and they do it. Now I see your point and it's really an interesting thought process. i do feel that with teaching skills there is always learning. Plus you can get the guys who have been around to help you teach it to the younger athletes. Doing that gives them a deeper understanding as well as stimulates learning. Again much different from the things I'm referencing Kind of like the old one room school house. My father-in-law attended a 1 room, 2 teacher school until the 8th grade. One teacher would instruct students 1st-4th/5th grade and the other teacher would instruct students from 4th/5th-8th grade The role of older kids in each group would be to teach the younger kids resulting in them at least becoming "masters" of basic math skills and reading skills. Teaching someone something and learning to try a few different methods when if the 1st way of teaching doesn't work always deepens my understanding.
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Post by fballcoachg on Aug 4, 2014 16:24:07 GMT -6
Question, do any of you get professional development credit for the additional classes (online and in person) you take for coaching? What I mean by PD Credit is some districts have you fulfill so many hours outside of the classroom of PD as part of the job, there are many things that apply but coaching PD is not one of them.
Just asking because my district doesn't give credit for it, I can't think of any that do off my head. Just curious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 21:10:47 GMT -6
Question, do any of you get professional development credit for the additional classes (online and in person) you take for coaching? What I mean by PD Credit is some districts have you fulfill so many hours outside of the classroom of PD as part of the job, there are many things that apply but coaching PD is not one of them. Just asking because my district doesn't give credit for it, I can't think of any that do off my head. Just curious. Nope.
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souza12
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Post by souza12 on Aug 4, 2014 21:49:57 GMT -6
You're comparing Apples to Oranges. Coaching is a totally different "job" than a customer service job. Coaching is not a job where someone is expecting compensation commensurate with their efforts and qualifications. The hoops you describe above do. On top of all that, you get paid for all those training sessions where as coaches need to pay for their own training and even fingerprints where I am at. BTW, you come across smug as hell. It occurs to me that when you're an hourly employee- and I've had more hourly jobs than I can count- you get paid for watching videos. thats what im sayin, best part of the job lol. I would just nod off
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