|
|
Post by Coach Bennett on May 8, 2014 7:52:37 GMT -6
I read many articles and books about coaches deliberately not talking about winning. It seems a humble, process-oriented philosophy.
That said, how many of you DO talk about winning with your kids? Not just about this week's game but from the outset of your spring/summer/camp? Why do you do what you do?
|
|
tekart
Junior Member
Posts: 298
|
Post by tekart on May 8, 2014 8:19:30 GMT -6
I think it depends on the situation. When I took over a team that was 0-9 we talked about getting better and not winning. Now we are playoff qualifiers and the expectation is now higher we still emphasize the process and getting better in the weight room and at practice but we now mention the word win a lot more.
|
|
beebe
Freshmen Member
Posts: 32
|
Post by beebe on May 8, 2014 8:59:12 GMT -6
i dont talk about winning per se, just talk about being champions and how champions are the hardest workers
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 8, 2014 9:44:39 GMT -6
I read many articles and books about coaches deliberately not talking about winning. It seems a humble, process-oriented philosophy. That said, how many of you DO talk about winning with your kids? Not just about this week's game but from the outset of your spring/summer/camp? Why do you do what you do? We normally don't but it's been a point of emphasis this year. We've been very young. Last year every offensive skill starter was a freshman or sophomore. We started two sophs, two juniors, and a senior on the OL. Our weight room testing numbers were abysmal and we physically resembled a JV team, which is what we were really. We finished 5-5 last year and felt that two of the losses we could have, and maybe should have, won. This offseason we've been emphasizing competing and winning. On Dead Lift days the linemen are dying to see who can get the most iron off of the floor. We have Competition Thursdays. While the QB and receivers go out and throw, the linemen have tough, physical challenges. So far: tire tug o war, bull in the ring ( the legal kind where you get on hands and knees and try to push each other out of the ring), pushing a car for time, and an obstacle course. Winners get fabulous prizes (OK, not fabulous. Donuts or Reese's Pieces). The point is, there are winners and there are losers. Because the contests are kind of off beat the winners aren't predictable. We're going to need that attitude. We're in arguably the toughest playoff region in the state (One of the second team all region DL was also a 2nd team All American). If we want to be anything better than 5-5 we need to grow a chip on our suburban shoulder. |
|
|
|
Post by gators1422 on May 8, 2014 9:49:47 GMT -6
We took over 3 years ago. It's my and several of the coaches alma mater, the last district title was won in 1998. Most of our staff was on that staff. We constantly brought up that team, had kids from that team talk to the guys. We made them want to be talked about like those guys. We always talked about winning the district, always as if it wasn't a choice. We went 11-1, lost to the state champs. The next year our goal wasn't the district it was the state championship game. We have removed the thought of losing, now we have been blessed by some good players but alot is really mental in that the kids don't believe we are supposed to lose. We are undefeated at home (21 straight) and the Dallas Cowboys could be on the schedule and if we were at home our kids would feel bad for them. Now it just feeds of itself and the kids have a real belief that no matter what they aren't going to lose.
|
|
|
|
Post by joelee on May 8, 2014 10:10:55 GMT -6
We usually talk a lot about the 2-3 teams that are best on our schedule and what we have to do against them. "that kind of effort is not going to beat ____". "you have to have great technique to beat _____". " you know if we beat___ we will be hosting 3 playoff games". "you know ____ and _____ will be there waiting for us in the region and semi-state". "every thing we do from plays to drills to practice plans is so we can beat _____". "invest now in the weight room and mat room so you will have something in the bank to draw from when we play ____ and its 4th and 1"
|
|
brcoach
Probationary Member
Posts: 14 
|
Post by brcoach on May 8, 2014 12:34:37 GMT -6
We went to the State Quarterfinals last year, so we tell the kids, if they want to go that far again or continue farther, we must work hard in the weight room during the summer. When it comes go games, we are trying to be 1-0 every week. That weeks game is the most important, we don't over look any opponent. We like being the underdogs and surprising the team picked to win.
|
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on May 8, 2014 13:44:14 GMT -6
We talk about winning all the time. If you talk about winning and what it takes to win the kids will expect to win and do those things. If you avoid talking about winning the kids will interpret that as you don't have belief in them or you don't think they can win.
Before the start of our season last year I stood before out team and said we have the talent to win every game on our schedule and play in a state championship. We also have some personality traits that could end up with us going 7-2 and losing in the first round. In order for us to win as much as we should and end our season where we should we need to do x, y and z. We went 11-1 and ended in the quarterfinals because a lot our little crap we couldn't get over cost us in the end.
I think the reason we've had the success we have had in the past 30 games (27-3) is due in part to some great talent, but the fact the kids EXPECT to win. Each time those 30 games that we didn't enter the game expecting to win, we've lost.
Lou Tice is a great mind in this line of thinking.
|
|
|
|
Post by fballcoachg on May 8, 2014 18:25:28 GMT -6
For those that constantly talk about winning how do you justify it when you don't? I get what you are saying about a mindset but say you are in an average to bad job/rebuild how do they respond when you don't reach the goal?
I'm a big fan of working to win or doing your best every/improving every drill/day/game.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on May 8, 2014 18:47:42 GMT -6
I think tekart has the right idea above. It probably varies on the situations. If you probably aren't ready to win a bunch of games, talking about winning is most likely futile, and potentially counter productive. If you are ready to make that jump from avg to good..or good to great...then that might be the think you need. |
|
|
|
Post by blb on May 9, 2014 5:30:39 GMT -6
If you don't talk about winning, how do you explain to kids (and parents) WHY it's important to lift weights in January, run in June, go to camps and 7-on-7s in July, practice hard and efficiently, be disciplined, etc.?
John Wooden BITD was the coach who professed to never talking about winning. But he had some of the greatest players in the history of College Basketball.
Pretty sure Lombardi, Bear, Woody, and others mentioned the final score and its importance from time to time.
Even at the HS level, coaches get fired for not winning.
At our initial Team Meeting we talk about our competitive (on the field) goals. Every Sunday I tell them what we have to do to win this week's game and why it's important to us in terms of season's goals, remind them after practice Monday and Thursday, and before game Friday. |
|
|
|
Post by s73 on May 9, 2014 5:53:38 GMT -6
If you don't talk about winning, how do you explain to kids (and parents) WHY it's important to lift weights in January, run in June, go to camps and 7-on-7s in July, practice hard and efficiently, be disciplined, etc.?
John Wooden BITD was the coach who professed to never talking about winning. But he had some of the greatest players in the history of College Basketball.
Pretty sure Lombardi, Bear, Woody, and others mentioned the final score and its importance from time to time.
Even at the HS level, coaches get fired for not winning.
At our initial Team Meeting we talk about our competitive (on the field) goals. Every Sunday I tell them what we have to do to win this week's game and why it's important to us in terms of season's goals, and remind them after practice Monday and Thursday, and before game Friday. We always tell our kids that's it's our job to provide them w/ opportunities to reach the top of their potential. It's their job to reach that potential and play to the best of their abilities as a team week in and week out. If together, we can do this, then the wins should take care of themselves. Do your job. |
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on May 9, 2014 6:49:21 GMT -6
The school I am at hasn't had any sustained success since the 70s. We are going into year 3 of our rebuild, and we talk about Murray championship football regularly. We aren't talking about wins, but we're trying to extinguish this "here we go again" loser mindset that we can't get over. We have some good talent, but overcoming that expectation of losing when that's all the school knows is really hard.
I think the way you approach this topic really has to vary by school and situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigm0073 on May 9, 2014 6:51:51 GMT -6
Over the last three years we have gone 10-3, 11-2, 11-3 and lost in the state semi-finals each year. Like others have said, winning does breed winning. Our players expect to win. It becomes apart of out culture.
Something I hit on with the players this year was a theme "WIN". I met with every player in our program in the winter one on one and discussed with them WINNING EVERYDAY. Our goal is to win in 3 areas everyday at school
1. Win in the classroom. We do weekly grade sheets to check their grades in class.
2. Win with their behavior. What are they doing when coaches are not watching and nobody is around. This is a big one. Behavior is reflected on their weekly grade sheet too.
3. Win in the weight room.
Daily I will ask players how they won today.. Some will say they got an A in Algebra.. Benched a weight for the first time.. Maybe did something in conditioning they never did before. Win in all of the little things FIRST. I believe if your team does this you are building a foundation and the wins on the field will take care of themselves. Kind of like Nick Saban's idea of "the process".. All of the things you day on a daily basis gets you to the point to win on the field in critical situations.
In a small way I believe this is our approach too.
|
|
|
|
Post by breakerdog on May 9, 2014 6:57:28 GMT -6
We talk about winning, but winning a game is to big of a concept. No one player can win a game. In my opinion, you can't tell a kid or a group of kids to go win a game, because you aren't giving clear directions to follow. It needs to be personalized and brought down to the players level. We talk about winning routes, winning blocks, winning the next six seconds. In practice we talk and teach HOW to win a route or a block. If each player wins his 6 seconds, you will win the play as a group. Win enough plays and you will win the game. Essentially a process driven concept with competition laid over top.
This is probably a more complicated way of saying "Do your job".
|
|
|
|
Post by bluboy on May 9, 2014 8:12:46 GMT -6
We are very process-oriented. We never talk about winning. We constantly talk about what we must do in order to be successful and about being competitive. In everything we do at practice there is a winner and a loser, as well as some kind of consequence for losing.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachphillip on May 9, 2014 9:28:04 GMT -6
I think we all talk about winning, just in different ways. I talk about winning first being a mindset/process and then being an end result. We get there and talk about "what winners do". Then we put that into practice everyday. "Finish that lift. Winners finish." Then we go to the games. "You've put in the work. Win your individual battles and let's get out of here with a win."
|
|
|
|
Post by caddofox on May 9, 2014 10:26:04 GMT -6
We've been successful, I avoid talking about winning for sure. I'll say this, winning is a byproduct, not an ingredient. If we do what we're supposed to do, how we're supposed to do it,the winning will happen on its own. And thats year round, especially offseason. Saban mentions it in his book. He says he had so much more success on not getting the kids to focus on winning but getting the kids to be their best. Don't look at the scoreboard, it doesn't matter if they're down by 20, or up by 20 they focus every play on playing their best.
I see a problem with coaches talking about winning. It ticks me off when i hear a coach yell "I wanna win!"
Or really push for winning. It can seem selfish. Remember to be the best leader the kids really need to believe you care about their best interest, and not your own. Pushing for them to be their best creates a better relationship, between you and your kids.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachphillip on May 9, 2014 10:34:12 GMT -6
That's my issue with the "we don't talk about winning" thing when it comes to highly successful coaches. I know Saban, Wooden, Walsh all talked about the process and stuff. But, I know for a FACT that they also talked about winning. Those guys always win. It's expected that if you play there that winning is the only acceptable outcome. If you lose, and you complain to your team about losing not being acceptable, then isn't that the same thing as talking about winning? Remember when Saban's Alabama team lost to Louisiana Monroe or some scrub? That press conference he was all about winning.
|
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on May 9, 2014 10:46:34 GMT -6
We've been successful, I avoid talking about winning for sure. I'll say this, winning is a byproduct, not an ingredient. If we do what we're supposed to do, how we're supposed to do it,the winning will happen on its own. And thats year round, especially offseason. Saban mentions it in his book. He says he had so much more success on not getting the kids to focus on winning but getting the kids to be their best. Don't look at the scoreboard, it doesn't matter if they're down by 20, or up by 20 they focus every play on playing their best. I see a problem with coaches talking about winning. It ticks me off when i hear a coach yell "I wanna win!" Or really push for winning. It can seem selfish. Remember to be the best leader the kids really need to believe you care about their best interest, and not your own. Pushing for them to be their best creates a better relationship, between you and your kids. And can eventually get you fired. Also, why the hell is Nick Saban some guru on winning? Does he win a lot? Yes. He also has the #1, 2 or 3 ranked recruiting classes every single year. He should win. This idea that he has unlocked some secret to winning games without talking about winning is ludicrous. |
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on May 9, 2014 10:59:44 GMT -6
For those that constantly talk about winning how do you justify it when you don't? I get what you are saying about a mindset but say you are in an average to bad job/rebuild how do they respond when you don't reach the goal? I'm a big fan of working to win or doing your best every/improving every drill/day/game. When I got the job, the previous HC had been to the playoffs 19 out of 25 years, but they hadn't been in two years and hadn't been past the first round in 5 or 6. In our first meeting I looked at the kids and said we will win football games. A lot. At some point I plan on taking this program to places it has not been. I then laid out how we would get there. I'm sure a lot of that first group thought it was BS and maybe there was a lot of rhetoric and stuff a first year guy would say. My first year we went 4-5 and lost two games by a combined 9 points. I told that group that unfortunately they would not reach our goal for that season, but that they would lay the groundwork for the upcoming success. My second year we started 0-3 and I was legitimately questioning what I was doing and whether I was going to keep my job after we got destroyed in week 2. I continued to talk winning and in the post game of our third game I and especially one of my assistants looked at the team and said "We're winning our conference this year!" We won the next 6 games in a row and won our conference. I think that our stubbornness for lack of better terminology in talking about winning eventually rubbed off on the kids. Since starting 0-3 three years ago we have went 27-3. We have been blessed with talent, but I think that eventually they started to believe in me and what we were doing. When that happened, watch out. Our coming out party was week 6 of that second year. We were 2-3 and playing a 5-0 state ranked team. They were picked by the local paper to beat us by a running clock. We beat them 20-6 and the physical beating we put on them was worse. From that night forward it's been a fun run. |
|
|
|
Post by unc31 on May 9, 2014 11:01:36 GMT -6
I talk to my kids about winnng every single day...in season and out. I am unapologetic about it. This may not be for everyone but I believe in competing and working hard to be the best at everything they do.
In the classroom , in every drill, every sprint, every agility, every 7 on 7, every scrimmage , every game.I place a high priority on winning.
If I don't encourage and push my kids to be winners I am doing them a disservice in my opinion. Do we always win? NO. Do we WIN at all cost? NO Do we humiliate or brow beat our kids when we don't win? NO. But we win a lot because we expect to win, desire to win and work to win. That is life in my opinion.
Mediocrity is easily attainable.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigm0073 on May 9, 2014 11:24:58 GMT -6
I think the one consistent theme that is being pointed out by many successful coaches is the ability to focus on small things and win on a daily basis... That includes other aspects and not just Friday Nights.
Lot of coaches are talking about winning in the weight room, workouts and in other phases of the players life. I agree. By focusing there and basically "getting your house in order" you can and will focus on wins on Friday Nights.
The problem some programs run into is that they throw out the blanket statement of "We are going to win the conference" or we are going 10-0... Stuff like that. But through the process of 12 months their players and coaches are not taking the proper steps to get there.
We all want to win on Fridays.. How many programs are willing to do "all of the little things" it takes to put their team in position to get there.
How many programs can truly lock into specific tasks and prioritize in the moment.. How many get caught up with WE HAVE TO WIN THE CONFERENCE..
Give the kids short term, daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly objectives. Challenge them everyday and create an environment that forces players to compete. All of the coaches on here all agree to that.
Too often some coaches are either too inexperienced, too short sighted or their ego just flat gets in the way. They put the cart before the horse and do not have a locked in program. Winning requires a lot of little things and a TON Of attention to detail that goes further then fridays, weight room and football practice. Coaches that can do this and get players locked into their process I believe have winning programs.
Also what makes your program "unique or special". The kids have to buy into you and the other coaches. What do you do differently then other programs that will allow you to win on Friday? Why are you special? We separates your program (Can not just be talent because we can not control that). This video here demonstrates our programs belief. We believe we do things differently and we believe we work harder then any program in our area. When it is the 4th quarter of games we believe we will make you break.. Does not always happen but we got quite a few 14-18 year old kids who really buy into that belief..
|
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on May 9, 2014 12:00:56 GMT -6
I talk about winning every day. Like unc31 stated, I make no apologies. When I was younger, I tried the John Wooden "oh shucks" "golly gee" humble approach. I didn't work for me. It wasn't within my personality and my attempt at meekness came across as weakness. I do, however, think that if you're not careful, a misplaced or mis-timed message of winning can bring unwarranted results. For instance, we may discuss our ultimate goals early in the year, but we rarely talk about winning state championships during the season. During post season play, we don't talk about the finals unless we are fortunate enough to reach the semi's. It's the whole looking too far ahead thing... I think winning is a process, like anything else. But focusing on the end result more than focusing on the daily grind could prove harmful. Just throwing something different out there... |
|
|
|
Post by bigm0073 on May 9, 2014 12:06:58 GMT -6
I actually think that is the consensus of the group.. I think we all agree that winning everyday will eventually take care of the winning on Friday Nights. I do not think any coach on here would disagree with that.
|
|
|
|
Post by gibbs72 on May 10, 2014 8:47:31 GMT -6
I think you can talk about winning without focusing on the scoreboard. I always liked the philosophy of "Win the Day" / "Win the Drill"/ "Win the Play"/ etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on May 10, 2014 10:56:13 GMT -6
Why wouldn't you talk about winning? Isn't that the goal? Who doesn't verbalize goals? Exactly |
|
|
|
Post by gibbs72 on May 10, 2014 11:00:38 GMT -6
I just heard a Herm Edwards quote that made me think of this thread:
"A goal without a plan is a wish".
It is good to discuss winning and being winners in all you do with your programs as long as you have an established plan showing how to get to winning.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2014 11:03:33 GMT -6
We're called the Phoenix, so when we talk about winning it's as a result of how we handle a loss, I usually tell them that a Phoenix will die and rise from the ashes and how I expect them to do the same.. No shame in getting beat by a bigger, stronger, faster, more technical sound player, but a true winner will keep trying and prove his toughness.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on May 10, 2014 11:06:56 GMT -6
I think the one consistent theme that is being pointed out by many successful coaches is the ability to focus on small things and win on a daily basis... That includes other aspects and not just Friday Nights. Lot of coaches are talking about winning in the weight room, workouts and in other phases of the players life. I agree. By focusing there and basically "getting your house in order" you can and will focus on wins on Friday Nights. The problem some programs run into is that they throw out the blanket statement of "We are going to win the conference" or we are going 10-0... Stuff like that. But through the process of 12 months their players and coaches are not taking the proper steps to get there. We all want to win on Fridays.. How many programs are willing to do "all of the little things" it takes to put their team in position to get there. How many programs can truly lock into specific tasks and prioritize in the moment.. How many get caught up with WE HAVE TO WIN THE CONFERENCE.. Give the kids short term, daily, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly objectives. Challenge them everyday and create an environment that forces players to compete. All of the coaches on here all agree to that. Too often some coaches are either too inexperienced, too short sighted or their ego just flat gets in the way. They put the cart before the horse and do not have a locked in program. Winning requires a lot of little things and a TON Of attention to detail that goes further then fridays, weight room and football practice. Coaches that can do this and get players locked into their process I believe have winning programs. Also what makes your program "unique or special". The kids have to buy into you and the other coaches. What do you do differently then other programs that will allow you to win on Friday? Why are you special? We separates your program (Can not just be talent because we can not control that). This video here demonstrates our programs belief. We believe we do things differently and we believe we work harder then any program in our area. When it is the 4th quarter of games we believe we will make you break.. Does not always happen but we got quite a few 14-18 year old kids who really buy into that belief.. One of the these our HC talks about at our place is: we are just like other teams...EVERY team works hard, seriously, what are they doing, eating popsicles. EVERY one says they want to play in the NFL, EVERY team wants to win..Heck who doesn't want these things.. He asks, what is is your edge? What are YOU doing on a personal level? Proper sleep, nutrition, etc..when each guy takes care of their 20 square Feet (his term) then and only then will we be good as a team |
|
