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Post by coachg13 on Feb 26, 2014 12:33:13 GMT -6
I think it's unrealistic to demand no swearing when you are together as a team in a high-stress environment. If you let one slip that's one thing, but if you're kids are cussing up a storm in social situations, in the hallways, in class, etc where they are representing your program in front of "outsiders", admin, faculty, that needs to be dealt with IMO. If it's not ok in front of other people than why is it ok when you are together? It sets a double standard. I don't necessarily disagree with that. It's something that's more of a case by case basis. I can think of once instance this year where I remember a player cursing at practice - got his hand stepped on and said "s--- that hurt" - didn't scream it, just said it to himself shaking his hand. Are we going to punish a kid for that? If he had gone into a tirade that's entirely different. It's not something we have to deal with because it's almost understood. Rules in the school house carry over outside to practice. But setting a double standard - guess I do it with myself. I have an awful mouth, and I admit it. I don't really think there's such thing as a bad word (minus obvious slurs, which do have some problems with and they're dealt with immediately). I've never cussed in the classroom or on the field, wanted to, but haven't. In private conversations I do all the time. I think that's a double standard I set for myself, but I don't necessarily think it's wrong. If I'm ever a HC, I know I will have the absolute rule of no cussing, but where I am now there isn't one, but it's not much of a problem. I guess it falls into our other rules about respect and behavior.
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Post by wolfden12 on Feb 26, 2014 12:53:43 GMT -6
I do not allow it in school or in athletics. If they have a problem, I tell them to have an administrator or their parent contact me. I understand that many are allowed however, I am working to mold young men and women. I will not allow a lack of manners and respect for rules and regulations at home to accompany them and think it is ok with me. I am working to prepare these individuals for life outside in the real world and a spouse, employer, or professor will not tolerate that language or behavior. If they swear, they owe me 10 push-ups. If I happen to slip, I do ten whether on the field or in the classroom. I then try to explain and relate to the real world and how it doesn't make you cool because you swear.
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Post by CS on Feb 26, 2014 12:57:47 GMT -6
If it's not ok in front of other people than why is it ok when you are together? It sets a double standard. I don't necessarily disagree with that. It's something that's more of a case by case basis. I can think of once instance this year where I remember a player cursing at practice - got his hand stepped on and said "s--- that hurt" - didn't scream it, just said it to himself shaking his hand. Are we going to punish a kid for that? If he had gone into a tirade that's entirely different. It's not something we have to deal with because it's almost understood. Rules in the school house carry over outside to practice. But setting a double standard - guess I do it with myself. I have an awful mouth, and I admit it. I don't really think there's such thing as a bad word (minus obvious slurs, which do have some problems with and they're dealt with immediately). I've never cussed in the classroom or on the field, wanted to, but haven't. In private conversations I do all the time. I think that's a double standard I set for myself, but I don't necessarily think it's wrong. If I'm ever a HC, I know I will have the absolute rule of no cussing, but where I am now there isn't one, but it's not much of a problem. I guess it falls into our other rules about respect and behavior. Seriously not trying to get into a p!ss!ng contest here but this just doesnt make sense to me. A double standard you set for yourself is not the same thing as when you are setting an example. I too have a filthy mouth in my personal life. I also like to drink beer but i'm not going to tell a kid its ok to drink because thats setting a bad example(and would probably get me fired) Anywho if thats the way you like to do it and it works thats fine, however, I don't think that its hard to enforce "no cussing". Like whoever said earlier most of the time the kids will enforce it for you if it does happen.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Feb 26, 2014 13:29:29 GMT -6
I wish I and the kids used them less often. I try really hard not to. Need to control my temper altogether though, I'm seriously drinking a lot more water, hot tea with honey, and doing yoga fellas! Anything to chill out and be less high strung! At our school it's ok as long as it's not to/about anyone. An "owe S*** that's hot" if a kid burns his tongue won't get him much, but "you're a piece of s***" will get a referral 100% of the time.
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 26, 2014 13:30:02 GMT -6
All boils down to the guy in charge... if he feels it is important enough to enforce it, then lock it down. If he doesn't think it is important enough to enforce, then there will be some of it.
Everything has a time and place... I do not swear in the classroom at all because I understand that time and place it is unacceptable and I understand that. To each his own.
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Post by Scott Bronkema on Feb 26, 2014 13:53:56 GMT -6
I would just say be consistent. If you don't want it coach it, police it. Don't give up on it one day, then enforce the next.
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Post by olcoach53 on Feb 26, 2014 14:12:01 GMT -6
I try my best not to curse. Sometimes one slips out and I apologize for it. If I hear the kids cursing I make them do pushups or burpees, the number depends on the curse word.
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Post by wolfden12 on Feb 26, 2014 14:35:56 GMT -6
I keep it the same not just for swearing. Inappropriateness around adults or females. I really try and emphasize that I know how you behave away from us however, you have to understand your surroundings and people you are in hearing distance from. I have always felt a kid is a slip up away from using this in front of a parent, youth, or other group and gets turned in. When asked 9/10 of the time he will say it's cool. Coach doesn't say anything and now your up the creek.
For example, in weight room the other day lifting and overhear one of our young guys talking about what he was going to do with this girl come the weekend. He didn't realize, but there were 8-10 young female students and 2 adult female coaches waiting to use the weight room. as he was talking he had no idea they were there and soon enough they began talking amongst themselves. I had to check the kid right there and go off on him. Later as we were leaving the young ladies and coaches thanked me for being proactive and not tolerating that kind of stuff. Gave us a good thing going forward with our program and what we are trying to present.
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Post by coachg13 on Feb 26, 2014 16:11:35 GMT -6
CS - like cqmiller said - it boils down to the guy in charge. I don't condone cussing to our kids, but we don't have a specific rule, and I'm not the one in charge. But I can can't on 2 fingers the times I've had to tell a kid to watch his mouth. I agree with you. If I'm ever in charge, there will be no swearing.
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Post by 33coach on Feb 26, 2014 16:29:13 GMT -6
Here in the land of Zion... "substitutions" are used all of the time and it drives me nuts! "Fudge you" "Bull shoot" "What the frick?" To me, you are swearing even though you are not saying the actual word. Your intent is still there and honestly it sounds even dumber than just saying the f'ing word in the first place. This isn't the thread to go into all of that in detail, but I am a big believer in the intent of the message rather than the message itself. I've had mormon coaches that are guys I would never play for again because everything is "what the frick?" or some other "clean" version of swearing about nothing, where I have had coaches that I love and would play for again no questions asked who would say things like, "knock him on his @$$" or use a "naughty word" in his coaching method that is not used in a negative way or toward a player in a demeaning manner. Is there really a difference between a player saying "Freak yeah!" loudly after a play and one saying "F_ck yeah!" after the same play... to me there isn't. this is ONE of my problems with the whole philosophy of 'swear words'. we are only looking at the word. but I can say words that are, while "not bad", have worse meanings and worse intent.
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Post by coach2013 on Feb 26, 2014 16:43:22 GMT -6
In my experience the best way to approach this is "human."
The world we live in today is different than maybe most of us grew up in.
TV shows, commercials, facebook and so on almost always include cursing. Its CULTURAL.
Kids throw around the F bomb constantly and it doesn't matter who is around. (ozzie ozbourne culture)
We approach it like this: "find something smarter to say" or "you need to work on that" or "control yourself" and "knock off the cursing" or "clean it up fellas" but we rarely take it beyond that because most kids understand what we are trying to do, control ourselves and clean up our act. The coaches are held to a higher standard. We don't curse, we don't tolerate cursing and we will remind each other constantly to lead by example and maintain control.
Now, I would say that you can step into a situation and on day one set the tone "absolutely no curse words here ever or you run and I write you up" or whatever. But if you make that kind of rule, youll be very busy for some time enforcing it. Similarly, if I gave a direction for the language to be cleaned up and it was not, the team would be held accountable.
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 26, 2014 23:43:20 GMT -6
I didn't realize that Mr. Osbourne had such a profound influence on today's adolescents.
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Post by coachplaa on Feb 27, 2014 11:29:42 GMT -6
This whole idea that cussing is manly or accepted, is part of the ill of society, that we as football coaches have a chance to at least alter, since we obviously can't fix it.
I know there are a wide variance of opinions here, but I'm going to stick to my opinion and respectfully agree to disagree with others.
I still feel like it presents a lack of discipline when you allow coaches or players to swear. It is NOT unrealistic to have this expectation of your high school program. For those of you that accept it at the high school level, would you say that its ok to also accept it at the youth football level? When do you draw the line?
I've had the same no-F-bomb rule in all of my years of coaching, and we probably average 2-3 F-bombs per season that are just total slips. I've been a part of passing league competitions vs other teams that drop 2-3 per sentence, and that's just the coaching staff.
If you can't say it in front of your mom or boss (principal) than why would you its ok "as long as they aren't around."
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 27, 2014 12:22:57 GMT -6
I'm gonna just agree that there will be no complete agreement on the topic...
It is about consequences...
Every decision you make has rewards and consequences. If you are willing to live with the consequences to achieve the reward, then you are going to choose that option. If you are not willing to live with the consequences to achieve the reward, then you are going to choose not to do that option.
I do not swear in my classroom with my students present because of the potential consequences. I know teachers who do use some swear words from time to time (not f-bomb, but many of the other ones) and have never been in trouble because no kids or parents have said anything about it. Therefore that teacher is risking the consequences because they will be in trouble if someone ever complained about it.
My wife is a teacher and never drops the F-bomb at school, but you better know she drops it at home when she's not at work. Again consequences at work not worth it, so you take care of it. Some kids will have jobs where their bosses let them drop F-bomb at work, some won't. Whatever the HC decides he wants for the program is what goes.
Growing up in this area, the #1 thing that has always driven me nuts is the hypocritical people that seem to surround me. Pretending to be one thing or follow a set of "rules" but are the 1st ones to do all the "bad" stuff as soon as no other person like them is around (insert any 'why do you take 2 mormons fishing?' joke here). I will not ask my kids to do something that I wouldn't be willing to do myself. As a player, if I messed something up, I would be all over myself and would use f-bombs about myself... "why the F--- did I do that?"... and would fix it the next time. If my QB coach or whoever was all up in my grill about me using the f-bomb at myself more than fixing the mistake I made on that previous play, my respect for him as a coach would diminish each and every time. Not my respect for them as a person, but as a coach.
Some people swear, some people don't. Policing it just seems like more headaches than the reward you could get. I assume kids keep doing it, you run them, maybe even suspend them, or whatever... I worked "not in school" for a while before I came a teacher and I've never been anywhere where F-bombs and other words weren't used on a regular basis.
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Post by 33coach on Feb 27, 2014 14:47:20 GMT -6
This whole idea that cussing is manly or accepted, is part of the ill of society, that we as football coaches have a chance to at least alter, since we obviously can't fix it. I know there are a wide variance of opinions here, but I'm going to stick to my opinion and respectfully agree to disagree with others. I still feel like it presents a lack of discipline when you allow coaches or players to swear. It is NOT unrealistic to have this expectation of your high school program. For those of you that accept it at the high school level, would you say that its ok to also accept it at the youth football level? When do you draw the line? I've had the same no-F-bomb rule in all of my years of coaching, and we probably average 2-3 F-bombs per season that are just total slips. I've been a part of passing league competitions vs other teams that drop 2-3 per sentence, and that's just the coaching staff. If you can't say it in front of your mom or boss (principal) than why would you its ok "as long as they aren't around." how were those words chosen? you dont allow your kids to say the standard FCC list of "bad" words. but are you ok with them saying more vile things just because the words are not on the list? what about talking about murder, or rape... without using "bad" words? there are many creative ways to say absolutely terrible things without using any word on that list....and once you realize that you understand that the "F" word isnt really that bad.....
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Post by coachphillip on Feb 27, 2014 15:21:28 GMT -6
I've had WAYYYY more times where I punished kids for talking about rape then swearing. I would much rather have a kid say the F word every once in a while than use the verb "rape" in a context of dominating someone in a positive way. "Damn coach. We raped them fools out there." Hear it way too often and I rebuke that every damn time.
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 27, 2014 15:48:40 GMT -6
I've had WAYYYY more times where I punished kids for talking about rape then swearing. I would much rather have a kid say the F word every once in a while than use the verb "rape" in a context of dominating someone in a positive way. "Damn coach. We raped them fools out there." Hear it way too often and I rebuke that every damn time. COMPLETELY AGREE... Pick my battles. That is one I will go to battle with admin if a parent gets mad at me for stopping that one. Same with the "gay" term for whatever they use it for.
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Post by coachbdud on Feb 27, 2014 16:16:08 GMT -6
every year we say it's not allowed
and we end up letting them get away with it
honestly, the only reason i even think it is a rule, is because of what outsiders would say/think... other teachers/admin/parents
i dont want my kids dropping F bombs and getting in trouble or hearing admin/teachers talk to me about their language
personally i could care less and I am so immune to it (italian mother) that I probably don't even fully hear half the swear words kids say in my class or in practice
i don't swear in class or on the field, i know it isn't "appropriate"
in my personal life, i do all the time... i have never had a problem filtering my speech while at work
generally in class I only yell at a kid for the F bomb... and even then its just a "hey stop swearing" and we move on
the following terms I think are completely acceptable from students (others might disagree) hell hella d@mn a$$
i don't even notice these words
I find the B word hilarious, but i know that's frowned upon
since i've been teaching i've tried stopping kids from gay bashing, and the F word associated with being gay... just because I know i have gay students, that's messed up IMO... HS is hard enough for them without hearing all that
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Feb 27, 2014 16:39:37 GMT -6
in class and on field: "normal" cuss = 5 pushups f bomb or worse = 10
Also, I tell them if I don't like it they push the earth ( I use the watch your language line on the damn, ass, etc.
Also, for every naughty word they it grows exponentially...
2 sh!ts = 15.... 5, and then 10 3rd time equals 20 and so on
Watching girls in health class do 5 pushups is priceless
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Post by georgefred86 on Feb 28, 2014 0:20:55 GMT -6
It is all about context and where is the word directed ... players should never direct it at their teammates and coaches should never direct at their players. If it is used as an adjective than it is not an issue for us, nor has it been an issue for us on game days. Having said that however, this year as a staff we are going to try and to do a better job at cleaning up players language as well as our own, for two reasons ... one, there are always better words to use and two, it is an easy way for a disgruntled parent or an administrator to find a reason to let you go. I have heard horror stories about extremely successful programs being closely monitored (superintendent on the sidelines) on game days waiting for the wrong word or wrong message being sent, that is a situation our staff would like to avoid. No matter the positive impact that you have on the kids you coach, profanity is an easy way to find you and your staff out the door.
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 28, 2014 12:03:53 GMT -6
in class and on field: "normal" cuss = 5 pushups f bomb or worse = 10 Also, I tell them if I don't like it they push the earth ( I use the watch your language line on the damn, ass, etc. Also, for every naughty word they it grows exponentially... 2 sh!ts = 15.... 5, and then 10 3rd time equals 20 and so on Watching girls in health class do 5 pushups is priceless I had a teacher with the same policy, but he taught geography!
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kodiak
Sophomore Member
Posts: 120
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Post by kodiak on Mar 3, 2014 23:47:12 GMT -6
No swearing at players, refs, coaches, etc. or when out in public where there's children or people around. So we have a no swearing policy. But it certainly comes with some leniency.
I'm not a linguistics/psychological expert but sometimes at half time, when a player is trying to get his team pumped up and is swearing it works. Do they have to swear, maybe not but sometimes you just have to let them have their moment. If they're swearing at themselves after a bad play some head cases just need to get it out.
John Wooden had a strict no swearing policy as well. He believed it was a sign to always be able to control your emotions.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Mar 4, 2014 0:06:33 GMT -6
None are allowed in our program. I even got tired of hearing this or that "sucks", so I made it an automatic 2 poles (basically a 200 yard run) for anyone who said it. A student said it in class the other day and one of our football players piped up, "that's two poles". He was kidding, but my message had gotten across...now even to the student body.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Mar 5, 2014 19:54:34 GMT -6
Do we allow swearing by our players?
F'no.
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Post by coachtaps on Mar 5, 2014 21:40:43 GMT -6
The program I played for no swearing at all or the whole team was punished. It was actually a rare thing over there. First year coaching I was around more swearing than I had ever been as a player. To each their own I suppose.
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Post by holmesbend on Mar 9, 2014 0:18:09 GMT -6
My biggest things are the MF's, GD's and F bombs....with those, it's push ups on spot. Kind of like somebody else said, things get quiet really quick to see if any of us coaches heard it. Other than that, I really couldn't care less. I can be the worlds worst about it around my closest friends, then turn it off no problem (knock on wood). Sh!t real loud can push the edge, too IMO. He11, D@mn, A$$...who cares.
For what it's worth, I dropped an F bomb out loud last year (not directed towards a kid), and I dropped down and did push ups and had the kids count.
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Post by coachb0 on Mar 9, 2014 5:33:19 GMT -6
as was already said: cussing at others is disrespectful and gets shut down immediately. i also think that the points of "being in a job environment" and "representing the team" are good reasons to not swear at all. i think we all would agree that if we didnt need swearing and never used it, we wouldnt miss anything. i too drop a "damn" sometimes, even as a positive statement: "damn, what a catch". but i think, even if there is some tolerance for it, we would not promote it. so swearing, even if its not always a really really bad thing, its no good thing also. but i am not a fan of prohibiting something - and its not an effective way also. although it sometimes is necessary, i try to look for ways around it. i want to give another reason why swearing is bad for your players and at the same time a way of how to avoid it or change the culture. i found it very helpful with my receivers this year. blog.drstankovich.com/3-reasons-why-cue-words-increase-athletic-success/swearing at others: disrespectful, not tolerated and prohibited for good reasons swearing at oneself: is bad for your performance, not tolerated but not prohibited. instead try to reverse the culture into a positive one. this gets all foul language out and gets you more benefits than prohibitting it.
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creid
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by creid on Mar 9, 2014 21:59:29 GMT -6
No cursing by players or coaches. Ten pushups and reminding kids that they are much too intelligent and mature to curse goes a long way. Only have a few kids doing pushups each year. No cursing is part of the cultureā¦one less thing to get called in about or for parents to complain about too. We have nine coaches and around 75 guys in the program, so they know they won't get away with much.
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osceola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by osceola on Mar 9, 2014 22:05:09 GMT -6
Was coaching against a school here in Texas, on the rough side of a decent size city. They broke out of each group with hell yeah, and as pregame was going on you heard more profane language then you did anything else.
We lost 35-20, they were pretty dang good, and had a lot of football discipline.
I think they have been using that language since 3rd grade. Not sure cuss words should even be labeled so....offensive to a certain race or group of people is one thing.
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 10, 2014 13:40:05 GMT -6
in class and on field: "normal" cuss = 5 pushups f bomb or worse = 10 Also, I tell them if I don't like it they push the earth ( I use the watch your language line on the damn, ass, etc. Also, for every naughty word they it grows exponentially... 2 sh!ts = 15.... 5, and then 10 3rd time equals 20 and so on Watching girls in health class do 5 pushups is priceless We all got in trouble for our language a few years ago. So the kids decided to police it themselves. Normal was 5, F word, GD was 10. They all agreed. One day the QB was frustrated during team and he goes off on a F bomb tirade. The MIKE LB just stood there counting them up. The QB hears him and says "F you Hayden, I ain't doin chit" Hayden replies "that's another 15, and we'll see." Well........the QB refused even after he calmed down. About 2 days later the QB coach (who was the QB's uncle) comes in the office and says "well, they got him" Apparently a group that still remains nameless...got him in the shower and they held him down and caked him in lotion. There were 8 empty lotion bottles in the trash can. So the HC rounds up the suspects (the QB wouldn't say who did it). Of course no one saw anything. Until he gets to the MIKE LB who was maybe the 3rd guy he brought in. HC says "do you know who did this?" MIKE says "yep" HC says "who?" MIKE says "You did." Puzzled the HC says "I didn't do it, how did I do it?" MIKE replied "because he's special, he doesn't do half the stuff anyone else does and you never say anything to him. Anyone else gets thrown out of class and we have to run or do updowns. He gets thrown out of english everyday and nothing ever happens to him. He comes late almost everyday, he never lifts in the summer, he never lifts on saturday, so when we all decided to do pushups for our language, he didn't think that applied to him. Yesterday he learned different." HC sat back for a second and said "you're right, I don't hold him to the same standard, that's my fault but you guys can't do things like that, you could get into pretty serious trouble for that." MIKE says "well we had to do something, some of the guys were going to his house and that wasn't going to work out well for anyone." MIKE leaves, HC looks at the rest of us and one of our guys says "well...at least he won't be ashy for a while" and we all busted out laughing. That QB was a complete jerk. The following year he got busted stealing out of vending machine during school, got caught leaving school and coming back high. We didn't experience those types of problems with him but not a single kid was surprised. So as some have said - who's the leader of the program and if you're going to have the rule, you have to police it and you have to enforce it and it best be universal. That was a great story
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