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Post by jpdaley25 on Feb 6, 2014 8:45:45 GMT -6
I'm revamping my player's manual for about the 20th time and I'm trying to do something different this time when it comes to our values. For example, one of our values is discipline, so, instead of another boring description of what discipline is that the players won't read unless forced to, I'm turning everything into action plans with steps that are measurable, and when a player has completed all of those steps they will be rewarded. I've got commitment and discipline done but I'm struggling with toughness. Does anyone have any Ideas? Thanks in advance for any input!
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Post by doublewing on Feb 6, 2014 9:14:49 GMT -6
A few weeks ago I attended a clinic in which Coach Johnson from Northwestern spoke. He is one of their top strength and conditioning coaches. At the clinic, he has a gimmick/technique in which he finds out who the soft players within the team are. He announces that today we will be heading out to the track and we will be doing 110's. In his explanation he never mentions how many 110's they will be running. He said the players that start to ask "coach, how many?", are your soft non- mentally tough . To each their own, but it makes sense to me
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Post by fantom on Feb 6, 2014 9:18:09 GMT -6
A few weeks ago I attended a clinic in which Coach Johnson from Northwestern spoke. He is one of their top strength and conditioning coaches. At the clinic, he has a gimmick/technique in which he finds out who the soft players within the team are. He announces that today we will be heading out to the track and we will be doing 110's. In his explanation he never mentions how many 110's they will be running. He said the players that start to ask "coach, how many?", are your soft non- mentally tough . To each their own, but it makes sense to me I don't know if that makes a player soft. Just sounds like a lineman to me. |
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Post by doublewing on Feb 6, 2014 9:27:27 GMT -6
Just going by what coach Johnson said
He was at OSU and Florida
He's developed more players and national champions than I have
So I'll take his word for it
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Post by coach2013 on Feb 6, 2014 9:33:14 GMT -6
Guys that ask how many are usually looking to pace themselves.
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Post by fantom on Feb 6, 2014 9:33:53 GMT -6
I'm revamping my player's manual for about the 20th time and I'm trying to do something different this time when it comes to our values. For example, one of our values is discipline, so, instead of another boring description of what discipline is that the players won't read unless forced to, I'm turning everything into action plans with steps that are measurable, and when a player has completed all of those steps they will be rewarded. I've got commitment and discipline done but I'm struggling with toughness. Does anyone have any Ideas? Thanks in advance for any input! I don't know how to quantify toughness. It's kind of one of those things that you know it when you see it. I'll tell you what not to do (and you're a smart guy so you already know this but I'll say it anyway): do NOT put in writing anything about playing through injuries. |
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Post by fantom on Feb 6, 2014 9:38:15 GMT -6
Guys that ask how many are usually looking to pace themselves. True. Big guys don't like running. Little guys may not love sticking their face into somebody's chest. It depends how you define "soft". |
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Post by coachphillip on Feb 6, 2014 9:43:28 GMT -6
I was an OL who busted his butt on every sprint. I was one of the "How many?" guys. But, I'm an over thinker that likes to know what the goal is. I didn't run any less hard because of it. I don't think that makes you soft. If my coach had said "As many as I want." I would've still ran just as hard. I just would've been peeved about not knowing where we were going with this exercise.
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Post by coach2013 on Feb 6, 2014 9:44:30 GMT -6
It really does. When I was a kid I loved the hitting. I hated the agility drills (gave me terrible shin splints) and I hated the "12 minute run" that we did every year - I don't think that made me "soft." It may have in the eyes of the coach- ?
I have always had teams with a few street fighters who scrap hard in games but do not like any form of structured conditioning. They will run around and play basketball or Frisbee for hours but don't mention "running" to any of them.
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Post by fantom on Feb 6, 2014 9:53:56 GMT -6
It really does. When I was a kid I loved the hitting. I hated the agility drills (gave me terrible shin splints) and I hated the "12 minute run" that we did every year - I don't think that made me "soft." It may have in the eyes of the coach- ? I have always had teams with a few street fighters who scrap hard in games but do not like any form of structured conditioning. They will run around and play basketball or Frisbee for hours but don't mention "running" to any of them. When I played rugby the backs were all fitness fanatics, the kind of guys who'd run a couple miles before a game. The scrummers would show up, flex their necks, and say "Let's go". BUT, sometimes we were shorthanded at practice and some backs would have to fill into the scout scrum. They'd come out holding their necks and moaning. Defining toughness depends on your job description. |
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Post by brophy on Feb 6, 2014 10:01:23 GMT -6
ultimately, what we're after is kids who won't quit when it comes down to competing.
You want to quantify it for a feel-good program manual....well, have fun.
If you want to put it to use and not just talk about it, then the bottom line is 'ATTEND 90%+ OFF SEASON WEIGHTS". period - its not that complicated
mental toughness or whatever {censored} else we're calling it these days comes down to what skin you have invested in a particular endeavor. You may be a complete war daddy, but if you don't really care if you get beat in a one-on-one; then ultimately you're not very tough. What you have invested in a contest will determine how long you're gonna stick it out. Maybe your pride can't take losing a pie eating contest....maybe you've staked so much of your identity into being a "football player" and that "football player identity" is directly tied to the W/L of the team that you're going to do everything in your power to make all the plays and set the standard for performance on the team (to determine those W/Ls).
Finding a crossfit test or some Presidential Fitness battery is just jerking off to make ourselves fell better
Program manuals (and playbooks) are great for coaches and administrators, but kids could give a {censored}. They are NOT going to read them. Instead of talking about it, BE about it. The only thing you need to give your kids is an off-season schedule of events
1. Weight Room session dates and times
2. Off-Season (strongman) competition dates
3. Off-season team social activity dates
4. Off-season team community service dates
5. Off-season leadership training dates
Instead of giving yourself high blood pressure trying to force every kid to grow some nuts, just develop better relationships with each kid, meet regularly for weights, and put your leaders in charge of toughening up the weak ones by empowering them to be the pace setters of your program with a positive peer culture.
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Post by leighty on Feb 6, 2014 10:12:06 GMT -6
Finding a crossfit test or some Presidential Fitness battery is just jerking off to make ourselves fell better You say that like it's a bad thing. But yeah, "toughness" is hard to define. |
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 6, 2014 12:56:52 GMT -6
Ugh...crossfit  don't get me started... Crossfit, as a supplement to other workouts, in HS is good. Crossfit, as a standalone program, especially for HS athletes, is crap. |
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Post by joelee on Feb 6, 2014 12:58:35 GMT -6
Put the kids in the squat rack after a workout, have them put 60% of their max on the bar and say "go to failure".
Some kids will do a set of 10 or so and rack it. They are super soft.
Some kids will go till it gets hard and they will dump the weight and fail. They are soft.
Some kids will go long after it gets hard and dump the weight and fail exhausted. Not soft.
Generally the higher number of reps he will do at 60% after a workout the tougher that kid is.
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Post by brophy on Feb 6, 2014 13:48:36 GMT -6
dump the weight and fail. They are soft.
at the end of the day NONE of this {censored} matters. The 70% of this thread arguing over the single test that is supposed to tell whether your kids are 'tough' or not doesn't mean jackshit and it is highly subjective (and futile) trying to find the secret test to be the end-all-be-all. It doesn't even matter if you DO find a test everyone can agree on because THAT, itself doesn't make a program......so we have to ask ourselves what is the point of all this heartburn? You guys realize you're all arguing over how many pieces of flair you expect your kids to wear, right?  we're not trying to get a bunch of guys being the best at exercising....we're trying to find the best group of guys who are great at playing real sports  |
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Post by joelee on Feb 6, 2014 14:08:20 GMT -6
What am I going to do about it? I am going to come back next time and use it as a teachable moment. I am going to explain that when you're told to go to failure that racking it is unacceptable. I am going to tell them I watch everything they do and I believe that a guy who does 25 reps at 60% is more dependable than a guy who does 15. I am going to make it a competition with tangible rewards and praise.
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otis50
Probationary Member
Posts: 9
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Post by otis50 on Feb 6, 2014 14:14:46 GMT -6
Its hard to measure toughness based on off-season conditioning. True toughness is measured by the athletes willingness to bleed for his team, and give every ounce of effort into doing THEIR job. I'll take any kid that will fight on the field, too many kids look like Tarzan and play like Jane. Do these kids look tough? ......I cant name one who was jumping at the bit to condition, did that make them not tough? No..
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Post by jpdaley25 on Feb 6, 2014 17:08:44 GMT -6
Thanks for all the replies!
I don't want this to be a feel good thing for the manual. That's what I'm struggling to try to change from what I've had in the past. What I wanted was an action plan or checklist that a young kid can sink his teeth into and turn himself into a tough football player. Guidlines for becoming tough and being tough. It will be in the manual and up real big on the wall. We have five core values; Commitment, Attitude, Discipline, Toughness, and Pride, and instead of me preaching these things all the time, we're going to act on them using a set of steps that they have to take in each area. Every player will be measured in all of these areas and when they reach a high level, they will be rewarded. If they reach excellence in every area, they will be rewarded again.I'm thinking of calling it the "All In" award.
I've got all of it done except for toughness, which I'm still struggling with. Here's what I've got so far, but I'm not happy with it yet.
1. Makes 90% or better attendence during off-season workouts____
2. Always pushes to increase weight, reps, maxes, and times on runs. _____
3. Never misses practices, always finishes conditioning, always pushes hard through conditioning. ____
4. NEVER shies away from contact.____
5. FINISHES all runs, blocks, and tackles physically.____
6. NEVER takes plays off or lets up in practices or games. No loafs.____
7. Pushes hard all the way through two-a-days._____
8. Does not let adversity in a game or a season effect his level of play.____
9. Plays just as strong or stronger in the fourth quarter.____
10. Is willing to sacrafice his body for the team.____
11. Never complains, has a positive attitude, attacks hard work as a challenge.____
12. Absolutely refuses to miss anything that his teammates have to do.____
Like I said, I'm not happy with it. I prefer the things that are straight-forward and measurable, but I think now that some of it will have to be opinion based.
Any more thoughts would be appreciated.
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Post by blb on Feb 6, 2014 17:36:58 GMT -6
Thanks for all the replies! I don't want this to be a feel good thing for the manual. That's what I'm struggling to try to change from what I've had in the past. What I wanted was an action plan or checklist that a young kid can sink his teeth into and turn himself into a tough football player. Guidlines for becoming tough and being tough. It will be in the manual and up real big on the wall. We have five core values; Commitment, Attitude, Discipline, Toughness, and Pride, and instead of me preaching these things all the time, we're going to act on them using a set of steps that they have to take in each area. Every player will be measured in all of these areas and when they reach a high level, they will be rewarded. If they reach excellence in every area, they will be rewarded again.I'm thinking of calling it the "All In" award. I've got all of it done except for toughness, which I'm still struggling with. Here's what I've got so far, but I'm not happy with it yet. 1. Makes 90% or better attendence during off-season workouts____ 2. Always pushes to increase weight, reps, maxes, and times on runs. _____ 3. Never misses practices, always finishes conditioning, always pushes hard through conditioning. ____ 4. NEVER shies away from contact.____ 5. FINISHES all runs, blocks, and tackles physically.____ 6. NEVER takes plays off or lets up in practices or games. No loafs.____ 7. Pushes hard all the way through two-a-days._____ 8. Does not let adversity in a game or a season effect his level of play.____ 9. Plays just as strong or stronger in the fourth quarter.____ 10. Is willing to sacrafice his body for the team.____ 11. Never complains, has a positive attitude, attacks hard work as a challenge.____ 12. Absolutely refuses to miss anything that his teammates have to do.____ Like I said, I'm not happy with it. I prefer the things that are straight-forward and measurable, but I think now that some of it will have to be opinion based. Any more thoughts would be appreciated.
Most of those things aren't measurable, and some of them don't prove toughness.
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Post by brophy on Feb 6, 2014 17:59:09 GMT -6
4. NEVER shies away from contact.____ 5. FINISHES all runs, blocks, and tackles physically.____ 6. NEVER takes plays off or lets up in practices or games. No loafs.____ 7. Pushes hard all the way through two-a-days._____ all these are loafs.....that has to be conditioned into the team. None of these items can be negotiable. Its like saying a kid will be punished if he doesn't get set on the LOS when you're running no-huddle. If they don't do that they shouldn't be playing. With that, it cannot be tolerated from any player in practice, so this is entirely up to coaching and has to be the way your team plays every day (otherwise you've got a coaching/leadership problem). Coaching (leadership) is about control. Control doesn't have to be some hammer of punishment, just setting the pace and expectation for the way your program will execute. Rather than allow poor performance and hope to address it on the next 'review', hold everyone accountable for the performance of the team and cultivate the attitude of what you expect out of your team Set the pace, tone, and expectation No one here is getting a cookie for doing the right thing - they are being lead to perform how they are expected to act everyday. So this would me coaches reinforcing reps, form, and tempo in the weight room, etc. Easier said than done, I know....but this is where the HC has to expect more out of his assistants, because THOSE GUYS have to step their game up. The ASSISTANT COACHES are the ones who have to do the bulk of this building and they have to get off theirass and start leading I'd agree with blb. You've got the right intentions and you mean well, but putting this in a list format is really subjective. If a kid thinks he's doing all this, wants his cookie and comes back with an 80% on these and your coaches graded him a 60%, what happens? Why not just reward the kids that participate and make it through each month of the off-season (but it is up to the coaching staff to set the pace and expectations on each time you met in the weight room)? I'd argue that you don't really want TOUGHNESS, so much as COMPETITIVENESS. Rocky was "tough" but he got his brains bashed in just because he ignored pain. What you're after are guys who refuse to lose and will fight to have the best performance (because ultimately, the real opponent is ourselves). So why not just foster COMPETITIVENESS, by competing all the time in the off-season? It doesn't have to be weights or football....you could hold a checkers tournament, so long as your kids get in the habit of learning the satisfaction of winning because of performance. usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/seahawks/2010-08-09-nfl-pete-carroll-seattle-seahawks-training-camp-_N.htm |
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Post by blb on Feb 6, 2014 18:34:51 GMT -6
#10 on your list could get you in front of a Judge and jury at some point, and your school would then be named after you - because you would have bought and paid for it on your way out the door.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 6, 2014 19:02:27 GMT -6
Ugh...crossfit don't get me started... Crossfit, as a supplement to other workouts, in HS is good. Crossfit, as a standalone program, especially for HS athletes, is crap. CROSSFTI---IS A STANDALONE PROGRAM. Metabolic conditioning circuits have somehow are now synonymous with the word CF. |
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Post by silkyice on Feb 6, 2014 19:41:54 GMT -6
dump the weight and fail. They are soft.
at the end of the day NONE of this {censored} matters. The 70% of this thread arguing over the single test that is supposed to tell whether your kids are 'tough' or not doesn't mean jackshit and it is highly subjective (and futile) trying to find the secret test to be the end-all-be-all. It doesn't even matter if you DO find a test everyone can agree on because THAT, itself doesn't make a program......so we have to ask ourselves what is the point of all this heartburn? You guys realize you're all arguing over how many pieces of flair you expect your kids to wear, right? we're not trying to get a bunch of guys being the best at exercising....we're trying to find the best group of guys who are great at playing real sports BAM!!!!! Love it!!! |
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Post by jpdaley25 on Feb 6, 2014 22:05:22 GMT -6
Again my thanks to every one who responded, especially Coach Brophy, who took a lot of time to help me. I value all of your opinions.
I have to find different ways of doing things and rely more on the kids finding it in themselves than most schools do because all I have to help me are volunteer assistants. Imagine coaching a team all by yourself. Having an offensive and defensive line practice for two hours and then having a skill position practice for two more. Imagine doing all the film breakdown by yourself and all the equipment room work and all the janitorial work by yourself. And then imagine doing this while being a full-time English teacher with no planning period. I've got to find ways to inspire the kids to do a lot of this on their own. This is why I wanted to take this approach on the character and attitude aspects of the program. I think it has a chance in all the other areas i listed.....
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Post by blb on Feb 10, 2014 7:17:38 GMT -6
We do something similar.
There is a small forest near practice field.
Take the kids to near end, tell them to meet me on the other side.
The ones that dodge the trees are the backs, the others are the linemen. |
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Post by coach2013 on Feb 10, 2014 7:39:10 GMT -6
Again my thanks to every one who responded, especially Coach Brophy, who took a lot of time to help me. I value all of your opinions. I have to find different ways of doing things and rely more on the kids finding it in themselves than most schools do because all I have to help me are volunteer assistants. Imagine coaching a team all by yourself. Having an offensive and defensive line practice for two hours and then having a skill position practice for two more. Imagine doing all the film breakdown by yourself and all the equipment room work and all the janitorial work by yourself. And then imagine doing this while being a full-time English teacher with no planning period. I've got to find ways to inspire the kids to do a lot of this on their own. This is why I wanted to take this approach on the character and attitude aspects of the program. I think it has a chance in all the other areas i listed..... Get used to this. Every situation is unique and in some cases, until you find someone who can be your right hand man, you really will be a one man show. When you find someone whos as obsessed and motivated as you and understands that you need his help then you will be in business. When you find a good assistant or two, HANG ON TO THEM. |
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Post by TripleOption68 on Feb 10, 2014 7:44:40 GMT -6
True Story:
At my last school we had an offensive lineman who was a MAC recruit and lots of coaches came to see him. A coach from Toledo asked me one question about him. He said "If he was walking down the hallway with his girlfriend and other guy came up and slapped her a$$, would he walk away and not say anything or would he knock that mother______ out?" I answered which one honestly and he said thank you very much!
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Post by silkyice on Feb 10, 2014 8:57:06 GMT -6
I think you should just lock your team in room without food or water or cell phones. Come back in 30 days. The ones that are still alive are tough.
Yeah, that is about as stupid as this thread.
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Post by carookie on Feb 10, 2014 9:13:45 GMT -6
Before you can measure toughness I think you need to be able to clearly define it. There are a lot of examples given which measure relative endurance of some type, or amount of team functions attended and equates them to toughness (and often times doesnt isolate the variable). But if a kid has to work part time after school to help feed his family, and thus misses a few workouts, I don't know if that means he isnt tough.
I would hope being able to complete all that we ask our players to do to make it to the season is a mark of some sort of toughness, at least enough of which to be a contributor to the team.
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Post by footballscout on Feb 10, 2014 10:37:51 GMT -6
Coach, you could try having the kids square off in bare knuckle fist fights. Would really be able to find out who is tough then.
Serious note: This thread isn't as bad as half of the people in it have been acting like it is.
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