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Post by btex0127 on Jan 5, 2014 8:31:52 GMT -6
Careful with the 8 hour rule there SMU
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smu92
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Post by smu92 on Jan 5, 2014 9:05:34 GMT -6
Careful with the 8 hour rule there SMU Coaching in OK now. No such rule here. Good & bad.
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Post by dcchan4 on Jan 5, 2014 9:12:31 GMT -6
I find it's best for the coaches to really study the film, game plan accordingly, highlight what the opponent does best and show 30 mins of that to the players, but I guess it depends what level your at.
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smu92
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Post by smu92 on Jan 5, 2014 9:16:31 GMT -6
Do any of you feel that seven days a week is too much? Even NFL and college guys get one day off a week usually. We do not require anything on Sundays. Unless I'm mistaken, TX has a rule against bringing the kids in on Sunday. I'm in OK now, & we are allowed to bring the kids in on Sundays. However, we do not do it. I think kids got to have time to be kids at some point (not to mention time for homework, family, & church). Now, we will bring the kids in on one Sunday each season. We'll play one Saturday game followed by a Friday game the next week. On that particular week, we'll bring the kids in on Sunday to watch the video, and we'll go through a shortened Monday practice.
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 5, 2014 9:26:25 GMT -6
I think we are going to do away with Saturdays completely too(other than JV games) as it gives us a better chance to get more coaches out scouting and maybe helps keep our kids eligible.
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smu92
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Post by smu92 on Jan 5, 2014 9:43:27 GMT -6
I think we are going to do away with Saturdays completely too(other than JV games) as it gives us a better chance to get more coaches out scouting and maybe helps keep our kids eligible. I know some guys who have stopped bringing their kids in on the weekends, and it has worked out well for them. It allows their coaches to get all of their weekend work done on Saturdays, and they get to spend their entire Sunday with their families. They've been pretty successful at a 4A school in Texas since they've made that switch.
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Post by nltdiego on Jan 5, 2014 10:06:39 GMT -6
I think we are going to do away with Saturdays completely too(other than JV games) as it gives us a better chance to get more coaches out scouting and maybe helps keep our kids eligible. I know some guys who have stopped bringing their kids in on the weekends, and it has worked out well for them. It allows their coaches to get all of their weekend work done on Saturdays, and they get to spend their entire Sunday with their families. They've been pretty successful at a 4A school in Texas since they've made that switch. I think we are not going to do Saturdays based on the same reason. How and when do these coaches show film?
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Post by fantom on Jan 5, 2014 10:16:44 GMT -6
I know some guys who have stopped bringing their kids in on the weekends, and it has worked out well for them. It allows their coaches to get all of their weekend work done on Saturdays, and they get to spend their entire Sunday with their families. They've been pretty successful at a 4A school in Texas since they've made that switch. I think we are not going to do Saturdays based on the same reason. How and when do these coaches show film? We normally don't bring the players in on Saturday.We watch film on Monday.
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smu92
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Post by smu92 on Jan 5, 2014 10:47:36 GMT -6
I know some guys who have stopped bringing their kids in on the weekends, and it has worked out well for them. It allows their coaches to get all of their weekend work done on Saturdays, and they get to spend their entire Sunday with their families. They've been pretty successful at a 4A school in Texas since they've made that switch. I think we are not going to do Saturdays based on the same reason. How and when do these coaches show film? They put a lot of faith in their kids watching the game film on Hudl over the weekend. I'm pretty sure they make notes on the video and send it to their kids to watch. Then they watch opponent video with their guys after practice during the week.
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 5, 2014 11:13:29 GMT -6
I expect my coaches to watch HUDL on their own, we then can show the kids film on Monday or Tuesday. ultimately we only focus on about 3 things a week to "fix" and a handful of things to prepare for the next team.
Most of the time, in my experience, film always shows the same kids making the same mistakes. Some kids take more time to become coachable and dependable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 11:30:13 GMT -6
I've worked with five programs over my career. At my first stop, Saturdays were a busy day as we played our freshmen games Saturday morning and the varsity came in for film. I was a freshmen coach, so I didn't get to see how well the film worked with the varsity kids in this setting.
The other four programs I've worked with were split--two programs we had the kids come in on Saturday and two we didn't. My current program does not bring the kids in on Saturday. Based on my observations, the "less is more" approach seems to work with kids better. There is still enough time to watch film on Monday plus we get better practices on Monday as the kids and coaches alike seem refreshed from some time off.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 5, 2014 13:28:10 GMT -6
These are all my opinions. If something works for you, God bless you, but they don't for me.
1. Bringing kids in on Saturdays is a waste of time and will make your kids not want to be there and a lot of them won't want to continue playing. This is a game. It's not a job. Give the kids the weekend to recover, relax and actually have a life outside football. As a staff we only meet from 9-Noon on Saturday. No Sundays unless we played on Saturday. If we do play on Saturday and will play the next Sat (playoffs) we give the kids Monday off entirely. No film. No lifting. Go home. Play Playstation and become a mass murderer on GTA. We even "forbid" them from playing football video games on Monday this year.
2. I've always thought this and I think we're going to do it whole hog next year- Watching opponent's film is also a giant waste of time. Everyone looks like crap on film and I don't care how good of a teacher you are or what you think of you're kids, they're probably not paying attention to formations or plays. Some do. I think we're going to get HUDL for the kids who do (among other reasons), but for 80%+ of the kids in that room they're thinking about how quick they can get the hell out of there. Show them the formations and main plays and then just rep the living crap out of them during the week. They'll get a billion times more use out of that than they ever will sitting in a darkened class room being bored out of their minds.
3. Watch your own film, but only for an hour. No matter how much you have to improve on, after an hour (and it's probably actually less) you may as well be talking to a tree.
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Post by btex0127 on Jan 5, 2014 16:01:54 GMT -6
Where do you coach Larry? I know this would not fly in Texas, at any level. As for film being a waste of time....could not disagree more. Welcome to your opinion but know if you did that down here you would not make it to the end of the season. I have worked places where we did not work Sunday as a staff, and others where we do. I like a shorter Saturday, 7-3 or 4 and then a few hours Sunday.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 5, 2014 16:11:35 GMT -6
Where do you coach Larry? I know this would not fly in Texas, at any level. It would if he won.... That's the trick isn't it.
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Post by gibbs72 on Jan 5, 2014 16:16:46 GMT -6
Where do you coach Larry? I know this would not fly in Texas, at any level. It would if he won.... That's the trick isn't it. That's true ==> winning does make the unorthodox seem like genius.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 16:23:09 GMT -6
Where do you coach Larry? I know this would not fly in Texas, at any level. As for film being a waste of time....could not disagree more. Welcome to your opinion but know if you did that down here you would not make it to the end of the season. I have worked places where we did not work Sunday as a staff, and others where we do. I like a shorter Saturday, 7-3 or 4 and then a few hours Sunday. That kind of gets into the gist of this discussion though. Just because everyone in Texas watches film every moment they possibly can doesn't mean that's the right approach for every program in the state.
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 5, 2014 16:26:10 GMT -6
I cant see what you could be doing from 7am to 3 on a Saturday. Lots of "when I played" stories.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 5, 2014 16:33:32 GMT -6
Illinois. 2A class.
And we're 21-2 over the last two years with only one starter missing a single game due to injury. It works for us.
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Post by gibbs72 on Jan 5, 2014 16:34:55 GMT -6
I cant see what you could be doing from 7am to 3 on a Saturday. Lots of "when I played" stories. I was on a staff that met like that most of the day Saturday. Let's just say it wasn't very efficient. . . . and I am definitely NOT a "let's meet just to meet" guy. If we've got a job to do, let's show up, do our job, and go drink a beer.
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Post by gibbs72 on Jan 5, 2014 16:36:10 GMT -6
Illinois. 2A class. And we're 21-2 over the last two years with only one starter missing a single game due to injury. It works for us. How big is Class 2A in Illinois? We are a 4A team in Kansas with just over 300 9-12 grade.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 5, 2014 16:49:58 GMT -6
We have a combined 345 kids in our 3 school coop. We're 2A out of 8 classes.
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 5, 2014 16:53:36 GMT -6
I don't understand the whole "that wont work in texas" kind of comment. PLEASE LETS NOT DISRESPECT THE ENTIRE REST OF THE COUNTRY WHEN IT COMES TO COACHING FOOTBALL_ THE BEST FOOTBALL TEAM IN TEXAS WAS BAYLOR
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Post by jg78 on Jan 5, 2014 17:12:30 GMT -6
I prefer to not bring the players in on the weekends. If I did, it would only be with the purpose of getting what would otherwise be weekday work out of the way so that practices would be a little shorter. It wouldn't be anything in addition to what I would ordinarily do. And even in that case, it would only save about 1.5-2.0 hrs. of time (one workout, two film sessions) that normally would be spread out over M-W. So about 30-40 min. a day. And when you factor in the time of the kids getting to and from the field house for an extra day and the battles you might have to fight (kids wanting to go to a college game, to the beach, parents objecting to their son participating in anything on Sunday, etc.) I just don't think it would be worthwhile in my situation.
What I prefer is for the coaches to watch film on their own and then meet some time Sunday afternoon or evening with all the information on hand and iron out the game plan details. As far as watching film with the players, I prefer to watch our film on Monday and the opponent's film on Tuesday. The coaches should have in mind the things that need to be pointed out during these sessions. Make brief points in the film sessions (follow up with an individual or group later if necessary) so that it doesn't take any more than 30-40 minutes to get through the film.
That's how I like to do it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 5, 2014 17:14:17 GMT -6
I don't understand the whole "that wont work in texas" kind of comment. PLEASE LETS NOT DISRESPECT THE ENTIRE REST OF THE COUNTRY WHEN IT COMES TO COACHING FOOTBALL_ THE BEST FOOTBALL TEAM IN TEXAS WAS BAYLOR While I agree with your sentiments, I don't think he was suggesting that it would be impossible to win games using that schedule. I am pretty sure by "won't work" btex meant "wouldn't be acceptable by administrations or communit and you wouldn't be thought of as doing your job", particularly if less than the desired results occurred.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 5, 2014 17:15:38 GMT -6
I don't understand the whole "that wont work in texas" kind of comment. PLEASE LETS NOT DISRESPECT THE ENTIRE REST OF THE COUNTRY WHEN IT COMES TO COACHING FOOTBALL_ THE BEST FOOTBALL TEAM IN TEXAS WAS BAYLOR so, you follow btex's asinine statement with one of your own? A college team (with players from across the country - oh, and lots of college teams have kids from across the country, including TX) losing a bowl game factors in how? look, there are a ton of ways to do things. some people can't properly express themselves. i know the kids i coach absolutely love watching film. they are thankful that we have a full time athletic trainer (almost all do) to take care of any injuries or treatment they may need the day after a game. they understand that light exercise, stretching, treatment such as heat, ice, etc. are beneficial the day after the game so they want to get that stuff done. they care about watching film of themselves to not only feel good about the game they play but about trying to get better at it. he had a poor choice of words. was probably best if he just stayed shut. i mean, when i hear how people wear sleeveless shirts & gym shorts to varsity football games i find that... well, i digress.... so, i don't say anything in those threads. why? because the culture and expectations are different across the country. when in rome, i guess. this isn't about who's way is better. it's about finding a way to make your players better which makes your team better. gameplanning an opponent is relative to what that guy is doing, perhaps. i mean, it isn't just about "do what we do" type of play calling. there needs to be a way that you get your best guy against their worst and hiding your worst one from their best one.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 5, 2014 17:30:52 GMT -6
I don't understand the whole "that wont work in texas" kind of comment. PLEASE LETS NOT DISRESPECT THE ENTIRE REST OF THE COUNTRY WHEN IT COMES TO COACHING FOOTBALL_ THE BEST FOOTBALL TEAM IN TEXAS WAS BAYLOR so, you follow btex's asinine statement with one of your own? A college team (with players from across the country - oh, and lots of college teams have kids from across the country, including TX) losing a bowl game factors in how? look, there are a ton of ways to do things. some people can't properly express themselves. i know the kids i coach absolutely love watching film. they are thankful that we have a full time athletic trainer (almost all do) to take care of any injuries or treatment they may need the day after a game. they understand that light exercise, stretching, treatment such as heat, ice, etc. are beneficial the day after the game so they want to get that stuff done. they care about watching film of themselves to not only feel good about the game they play but about trying to get better at it. he had a poor choice of words. was probably best if he just stayed shut. i mean, when i hear how people wear sleeveless shirts & gym shorts to varsity football games i find that... well, i digress.... so, i don't say anything in those threads. why? because the culture and expectations are different across the country. when in rome, i guess. this isn't about who's way is better. it's about finding a way to make your players better which makes your team better. gameplanning an opponent is relative to what that guy is doing, perhaps. i mean, it isn't just about "do what we do" type of play calling. there needs to be a way that you get your best guy against their worst and hiding your worst one from their best one. Agree- I have never thought of kids coming in on a Saturday as "wearing them down" or taking away from their rest. Every staff I have been with has always had it as a recover, run, stretch, injury check (with or without trainer) day. Also used it as a JV game day, OR a JV only practice day while varsity ran/lifted. (Disliked one place where the JV practiced while varsity watched film as a large group with the DC, thought that was a bad idea)
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Post by fballcoachg on Jan 5, 2014 17:44:46 GMT -6
In HS we came in on Saturdays, jogged a mile around the track, and watched the last nights film. JVs played on Saturday so some of us stayed while some took off.
School I coached at our JV and 9th grade played during the week, we didn't bring players in to watch the film for a multitude of reasons. Sent our position groups film (I made sure the QB's watched film of x amount of things we needed to improve, things we did well, and alignments to expect from the other team). It was difficult to do film in a large group there but it wasn't the most organized/consistent set up.
School I currently coach at is back where JV games are on Saturdays. Our Varsity guys come in, see the trainer if need be, watch portions of the game (whether it be a half or so or a select few plays) then they go and do a light lift. Many hang out for the JV games, even show up to some away games. All in all maybe 2 hours on Saturday if you don't count the ones who hang out for JV games.
We then watch opponent film for a little bit before practice on Monday while the JVs lift. Varsity guys come in before school on Tuesday and watch some more film (we start relatively late so it works). I have the QBs in on Wednesday before school but only for about 15 minutes to go over the clips I sent them on the weekend. Varsity starters also watch a little film before our games on Friday of the opponent, think more so a "get your mind set" idea.
My last school this set up would not have worked, at least not in the set up we had. It works great where I currently am but the kids are used to it and are focused when watching the film. A lot of times they have a few that bring in breakfast on Tuesdays...it's just something they have always done and are in the groove of.
I think it comes down to how efficient you are with it and what is reasonable with where you are. I can very much see places being successful without watching that much film but I like the set up, I also like the idea of getting them up there Saturday for auxiliary reasons. It makes them pretty accountable for their Friday night choices and urges them to stick around for awhile and support the JVers.
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Post by jg78 on Jan 5, 2014 18:31:16 GMT -6
Where you are (by location and school) matters a lot as far as the way you do things. Nobody in our league plays JH/JV games on Saturdays. The most I have heard of for football on a Saturday is a Pee-Wee bowl game (maybe three or four teams involved) that a couple of schools may host once a year. If our league tried to start scheduling JH/JV games on Saturdays, I don't think it would go over too well. I live in Alabama and (needless to say) college football is very popular down here. Kids and parents are big fans of Auburn and Alabama and go to games all the time. Preventing that would be a lot more trouble that it's worth. I know I wouldn't like it either. All the teams in our league play JH/JV games on Monday or Tuesday.
At my old school, in-season athletes used to lift weights before school. It was done that way before I got there and the kids were used to it and I continued it. They were also country kids that were just used to early mornings in general. Here? I'm not the head coach here, but I don't know well that would go over. It would take some getting used to. I know that. Two different worlds.
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Post by btex0127 on Jan 5, 2014 18:45:48 GMT -6
I don't think my comment was asinine at all. Huey name one school in Texas where you could work 3 hours a weekend? I don't even know how I could possibly get a game plan together working only three hours. How do you grade the previous film, break down 3 game films, and plan practice in 3 hours. If it works for hIm that's great as for me and the places I know I can not name one where it would work or where you would not have a whole community on you on the first game you lose or even don't win by enough. As far as choice of words, yes it was a poor choice.
If you want a break down 7-8:30 grade film from previous night ( each position does own some are done in an hour but like Oline takes whole time) 8:30-9:30 kids lift and condition While this is going on coordinators are getting short film clips together 9:30-10 film kids watch film of previous night own own grades come with clip numbers to se what Coaches are talking about 10-11:30 break down of film each position has certain responsibilities 11:30-12 lunch usually brought to field house 12-1:30 finish film break down 1:30-2 special teams break down (usually takes less time) 2-2:30 personnel injuries moving up players etc 2:30-3 staff meeting of whole what did we do well last game, poor, etc No matter where we are everyone leaves at 3
Sunday 1:30 Coordinators report get game plans together 2:30 rest of coaches, discuss game plans, concerns, addition of plays, opp personnel 3:30 scouting reports for players, film clips for week, practice plans for Monday-Thursday 5:00 staff meets, finish anything left, quick staff meeting
For any drills etc for younger coaches they meet with coordinators Monday mornings. I feel by planning week on weekend we can limit time after practice sitting at field house. Coaches go home once laundry is done and we meet in the mornings to get any changes to practice plan. Does this work every where, no. Do you have to do it this way no.
JV, fresh, jh play on thrusday
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 5, 2014 20:32:10 GMT -6
1. We as a staff look at what they like to do offensively and defensively and talk about what we want to do to attack it. Coordinators (my DC and myself- I'm HC and OC) will text or call each other Sunday for any follow up ideas. I usually get my best ideas Sunday morning when I go for my run.
2. We don't grade previous film
3. We don't break down 3 game films. We only get 2. And we don't usually break them down to down and distances. We get their 5-10 favorite plays and we figure out how to stop them.
4. We don't plan any practices as a group. Mondays always follow the same format. My DC emails (he works in one of our coop schools) his defensive practice plan on Tuesday and Wed is Offense. Thursday is exactly the same every single week.
5. We also practice under 2 hours every day, every week. Can't get it done in 2 hours? You're not going to get it done.
Football is not my job. I earn $4000 out of my $45,000 salary to coach football. If we stink can I lose my teaching job? Probably. But I think the 7 out of 8 hours I teach a day has more to do with it than football. I love football, but it isn't my life. I'm obsessed with it and I know that if I spend too much time with it it will consume me. So, I get away from it.
The kids? They don't care anywhere near as much as I do. Why bring them in just to make them hate the game? We limit the amount of time they put in so that when we do ask them to give us time it means something. There is no way on God's green earth 90% of kids in any state care enough about a game to put in 3-6+ hours a day, 6-7 days a week. We use our time wisely and make it meaningful when the kids are here. In the summer we only ask kids to devote, on average, 1 1/2 hours a week to football. Let them have a life. It will come back to you in good ways.
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