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Post by morris on Nov 17, 2013 15:32:04 GMT -6
I'm interested in hearing about some regional offenses/defenses. Here in KY we have the Male confusion defense, Red Faught's run and shoot, Chuke William's double dive, and we had a side saddle T team at one time. You have the Texas slot t or the Celina 10-1 or the fly offense out west. It's always nice to hear about local flavor.
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Post by powerfootball71 on Nov 17, 2013 15:50:01 GMT -6
Out here in wa you see a fair mix alot of spread in the highest classifications a fair bit of wing-t with the success Bellvue has but not a ton in 1a cascade Christian seems to be in the finals or close consistently running some pretty cool unbalenced stuff a mix of pacific luthren stuff and a some college called Georgetown influnced that I dont know much about. Defensively you see a pretty good mix of 4-2/4-4 3-4/5-2 and a bit of 3-3 but it seems to be declining. Oddly I hardly ever see a 4-3.
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Post by morris on Nov 17, 2013 15:53:06 GMT -6
The unbalanced stuff if it looks a little wing t like is Georgetown College's goal line package. It's their orange package which came from Red Faught that I mentioned.
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Post by keysersoze on Nov 17, 2013 22:18:34 GMT -6
The unbalanced stuff if it looks a little wing t like is Georgetown College's goal line package. It's their orange package which came from Red Faught that I mentioned. I saw Scott Westering (PLU) present on the goal line package. If I recall correctly, I think they played Georgetown in the play offs one year and that's where they adapted it from, although I could be making that up. When I googled Red Faught, I found a playbook, what I found was pretty close to what I had in my notes. |
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Post by bluedevil4 on Nov 17, 2013 23:14:01 GMT -6
St. Clair/Blue water area of Michigan: wing-T, wing-T everywhere. Even the spread and pass happy teams revert back to wing-T/have elements of wing-T.
Everyone is in a 5-2 or 4-4 it seams.
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Post by morris on Nov 18, 2013 7:30:10 GMT -6
Red's offense is some where between Tiger Ellison's And Mouse Davis's R&S. He ran some of his run and shoot stuff out of the short yardage set.
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Post by M4 on Nov 18, 2013 7:40:20 GMT -6
St. Clair/Blue water area of Michigan: wing-T, wing-T everywhere. Even the spread and pass happy teams revert back to wing-T/have elements of wing-T. Everyone is in a 5-2 or 4-4 it seams. Are you guys Wing-T up there Bluedevil4? |
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Post by fcboiler87 on Nov 18, 2013 8:21:51 GMT -6
When I coached in Kentucky I thought there were a fair amount of TFS teams. It was always fun to watch a good TFS school get after it.
In Indiana, especially in the southern part of the state, the run game is dominant, though choices vary on what type. There is a fair amount of Wing-T teams. There is a fair amount of option making the rounds as well. The spread to pass/TFS type offense really isn't prevalent except for a handful of schools, though it is picking up steam.
Defensively you really see a bit of everything. It seems like our offense was preparing for something different every week.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 8:34:55 GMT -6
Does the I formation count?  We're still probably around 40% pro I here in East TN and maybe 30% spread, with Wing-T and Flexbone filling out the rest. Defenses vary. The last league I coached in (state's highest classification) was full of 4-3 Over defenses with speed who would just throw a single front at you and out execute/out talent you. The small school league I'm in now (right near the TN/KY border) is mostly TCU-influenced 4-2-5 and things are a lot more multiple. I don't know of any particularly unique defenses in our area. If you go back to the 80s and 90s, there used to be a certain East Tennessee flavor of Wing-T that's all but gone now. It was more focused around Belly and Power Series, and had replaced the Delaware Wing-T number-based terminology in favor of words and directional playcalls. It used a lot of double tight sets and had specialized WBs/HBs. There weren't a whole lot of unbalanced lines, spread formations, etc. It was nothing earth shattering, but it was a regional variation with a few of its own quirks. I'm thinking there are probably a lot more out there. There are some teams around here who run Tusculum College's style of spread. Sevier County is probably the most successful. Tusculum has a passing offense that's not like anything else I've seen--it's got a lot in common with the Mike Leach strand of Air Raid, but it's its own animal that leans more on multiple 4-5 wide bunch formations and screens. When I've seen them play, about the only running game I saw was a draw. Otherwise, they relied on shuffle passes, bubbles, and swing screens to fill the roles that IZ and OZ typically occupy in other spread offenses. My last school used to play Sevier Co. and they'd go no huddle, running this offense and complimenting it with a trap and IZ (literally their only run blocking schemes IIRC). It was very simple for them, but very tough to stop, especially with their talent at WR. Across the VA line where I'm from, there used to be a bunch of Harry Frye Double Tight Power T teams until well into the early 2000s, but I don't think anyone runs it now. Instead of the emphasis on Wing-Tish stuff I've seen from the Michigan Dead T teams, which emphasize FB traps and off tackle plays with misdirection, his base play was a simple FB belly iso in B gap, complimented by a pin and pull power sweep. Frye T guys didn't care about misdirection or throwing the ball, and they'd often gladly tip the play before the snap if they felt it'd still work. It was all about just lining up and running you over with superior force at the POA. It was a very, very simple, straightforward offense that put a premium on running you over. I coached a highly simplified version of it in PeeWee ball a few years back. I don't know nearly as much about the full version as I'd like. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 8:41:03 GMT -6
powerfootball71, that sounds like Red Faught. His goal line package was a tackle-over unbalanced Wing-T. It looked like this: .......Y...G...C...G...T...T..................X ................Q...............Z .......H........F His running game was Wing-T based (like the original 'shoots) so it wasn't a huge stretch for him to do this. He liked it because he thought it was the ultimate keybreaker. Opponents would get used to defending 4 wide, air-it-out offense, then they'd line up in this and throw PA or run it right at them. It worked well enough to make Faught the only Run and Shoot coach to win a national championship (NAIA). Is this what they do?
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Post by coachfowler on Nov 18, 2013 9:00:59 GMT -6
That is what they line up in. they run weak lead, G down, wing sweep, strong lead, dive, strong sweep, TE screen. Have seen some 4-3 teams but they are all 4a schools. Starting to see a lot more of the zone read game.
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Post by morris on Nov 18, 2013 9:01:50 GMT -6
I don't think many would agree with me but I think Red sort of created Rocket sweep. His toss sweep used the same motion and was caught wide just like rocket.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Nov 18, 2013 9:17:50 GMT -6
St. Clair/Blue water area of Michigan: wing-T, wing-T everywhere. Even the spread and pass happy teams revert back to wing-T/have elements of wing-T. Everyone is in a 5-2 or 4-4 it seams. Are you guys Wing-T up there Bluedevil4? We are not actually. We don't even have a full-house set. We're an H-back-power & zone system (Very Bama/Wisconsin-ish). We see so much wing-T though, that I can just call "buck trap, buck HB trap," or, "buck sweep," and all our scout kids know where to line up and what to do. We hardly need play cards for wing-T teams anymore. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 18, 2013 21:09:37 GMT -6
Here in the Salt Lake area we see predominantly spread with the occasional flexbone, wing t and double wing teams sprinkled in. A ton of zone read. Defensively we see everything.
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Post by coachphillip on Nov 18, 2013 23:31:50 GMT -6
I think with all the new technology available to coaches in communicating philosophies and systems, there is a lot less "local flavor" in football today. It seemed as if every team we played this year either ran NZone, TFS, or Oregon Spread. Defensively, the 3-4 is seeming to come back into style. People are trying to be Nick Saban in response to all the speed on the offense. If it wasn't 3-4, it was 4-2. One team ran 3-3 as a change up. NCS NorCal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 1:24:23 GMT -6
In the greater Charlotte area of NC, we see a lot of spread offenses(mostly spread to run), with one notable wing t team. We also have the occasional grab bag.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 19, 2013 7:19:57 GMT -6
St. Clair/Blue water area of Michigan: wing-T, wing-T everywhere. Even the spread and pass happy teams revert back to wing-T/have elements of wing-T. Everyone is in a 5-2 or 4-4 it seams. Sounds like my kind of place! Any openings up there... LOL The only "regional" type of O around here is actually more one play than an entire O. There seems to be an entire county/area that every team runs the super power with the qb leading up thru the hole after the pitch. One team runs it so much a lot of people just started calling it the Greenville toss after the team that hung their hat on it. Other than that nothing special you don't see any where else. |
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Post by conquistador52 on Nov 19, 2013 8:45:08 GMT -6
I'm interested in hearing about some regional offenses/defenses. Here in KY we have the Male confusion defense, Red Faught's run and shoot, Chuke William's double dive, and we had a side saddle T team at one time. You have the Texas slot t or the Celina 10-1 or the fly offense out west. It's always nice to hear about local flavor. We ran some Side Saddle T this past season, only about three or four plays but it was pretty unique. Our QB Coach is from Eastern Ky, ran the Side Saddle T at his high school a few years and dared me to do it. The Side Saddle T matched up pretty well with alot of what we already did so we just installed it as a formation. Ran it first play of the gain and got 20 yard gain. The best part about it was listening to the replay of the game just to hear the announcers trying to describe the formation. It was worth the 10 minutes spent installing it!! |
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Post by tmtfootball on Nov 19, 2013 12:06:37 GMT -6
In central Pennsylvania, we see a big mix of Pro I teams, spread, and the occasional wing t style offenses. At the smaller schools you see 44, 62 & 53 defenses. The larger schools mostly 52 and 43.
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Post by cocoach on Nov 19, 2013 13:05:50 GMT -6
Colorado in the lower levels is a mix of wishbone, power t, and double wing. As you get higher there more spread teams. Defensively, 4-4 cover 3 and cover 2 with a few teams mixing in 3-3 or 5-2.
I live in the Tampa area now and its 80% spread or pro I. Defensively, I see more man being played down here. "My joes are better than your johnnies."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 17:34:42 GMT -6
I'm interested in hearing about some regional offenses/defenses. Here in KY we have the Male confusion defense, Red Faught's run and shoot, Chuke William's double dive, and we had a side saddle T team at one time. You have the Texas slot t or the Celina 10-1 or the fly offense out west. It's always nice to hear about local flavor. What's Chuke Williams double dive like? I'm intrigued... |
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Post by morris on Nov 19, 2013 18:03:07 GMT -6
Chuke has since passed away in the past few years. It was Belly double dive series. I think he ran both inside and outside belly. They would ride the RB and either hand off to the first or second back or keep. Now I know there are plenty of other people that run Belly/Double Dive but he was considered THE GUY or pretty darn close here in KY. The other thing was Chuke was a strange bird. I never met the guy but everyone I have heard talk about him talked about how he would smoke on the sidelines and wore flipflops all the time.
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Post by dubjay97 on Nov 19, 2013 18:36:22 GMT -6
Here in the Salt Lake area we see predominantly spread with the occasional flexbone, wing t and double wing teams sprinkled in. A ton of zone read. Defensively we see everything. Double wing? I seem to be unfamiliar. You hit everything on the head, but I feel that second only to the spread is Pro-I stuff. Quite a few teams (on our schedule, at least) used lots of 2 back sets. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 19, 2013 19:45:33 GMT -6
Here in the Salt Lake area we see predominantly spread with the occasional flexbone, wing t and double wing teams sprinkled in. A ton of zone read. Defensively we see everything. Double wing? I seem to be unfamiliar. You hit everything on the head, but I feel that second only to the spread is Pro-I stuff. Quite a few teams (on our schedule, at least) used lots of 2 back sets. I'm right down the road from you. Check out Lehi. They run a ton of double tight double wing. Went to an East game a few weeks ago and they ran some as well. Not sure if that's what the do predominantly, but they pounded Corner Canyon with some double wing principles. |
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Post by realdawg on Nov 19, 2013 20:51:41 GMT -6
As mentioned lots of spread to run in the Charlotte NC area. I know down east of Raleigh there are a ton of Wing T teams. Defenses vary. But the 3-4 is coming on strong.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 19, 2013 21:04:35 GMT -6
As mentioned lots of spread to run in the Charlotte NC area. I know down east of Raleigh there are a ton of Wing T teams. Defenses vary. But the 3-4 is coming on strong. I coached in Raeford/Fayetteville. Seemed like a lot of pro-style teams were there. Saw mostly 4-3 in the sand hills. Also coached at a prominent school in the Macomb Area Conference in Michigan. We saw a ton of spread teams and the 3-3 was just starting to catch on. That was a few years back though. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 23:34:40 GMT -6
As mentioned lots of spread to run in the Charlotte NC area. I know down east of Raleigh there are a ton of Wing T teams. Defenses vary. But the 3-4 is coming on strong. We saw mostly even front teams for awhile, but the odd front has returned. We also see very little 33/35 and more 3-4. In Charlotte it's self is about 90% spread to run. The other schools include a couple I/pro style teams, a prominent Wing T/T team and a multiple wing team. |
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Post by coachseth on Nov 20, 2013 2:00:31 GMT -6
In Tennessee everybody is a run first team it seems like.
I'd venture to guess that 90% of the state is in either the I Formation, Wing T, or Wishbone...the other 10% is doing Pistol/Spread stuff.
The vertical passing attack is almost non existent around here, I'm hoping to change that in the near future.
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Post by realdawg on Nov 20, 2013 11:59:05 GMT -6
The wing t team you are talking about is very good. The D1 RB they have had the past few years has made it even better. True about not much 3-3, but alot of 3-4 teams popping up. Some run it very well, some dont seem to know what they are doing. Most of the east of Raleigh down east teams are in the Rocky Mount, Duplin county area if I remember right.
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Post by casec11 on Nov 20, 2013 13:36:58 GMT -6
In south Florida, we see a lot of pro I spread, wing T, and as far a defense 43 over front with different coverages but the majority Man Free is by far the most prevalent probably from the University of Miami in the 90s
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We're still probably around 40% pro I here in East TN and maybe 30% spread, with Wing-T and Flexbone filling out the rest. Defenses vary. The last league I coached in (state's highest classification) was full of 4-3 Over defenses with speed who would just throw a single front at you and out execute/out talent you. The small school league I'm in now (right near the TN/KY border) is mostly TCU-influenced 4-2-5 and things are a lot more multiple. I don't know of any particularly unique defenses in our area.
