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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 20:36:34 GMT -6
In Tennessee everybody is a run first team it seems like. I'd venture to guess that 90% of the state is in either the I Formation, Wing T, or Wishbone...the other 10% is doing Pistol/Spread stuff. The vertical passing attack is almost non existent around here, I'm hoping to change that in the near future. What part of the state are you in, coachseth? I haven't seen a true wishbone team at the HS level since my own playing days in the 90s. WE were that team I do know of some flexbone and a bunch of spread. Usually the spread teams are awful, but the good ones are very tough. Way more than 10% are running it in our neck of the woods. I agree that the I/multiple pro stuff is very common, but as a coach I've only faced 1 true old school Wing-T team and rarely even seen it on opponents' film. I've been seeing a lot of pistol (especially 2 back, pro-I style pistol offenses) the past 2 years.
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Post by coachseth on Nov 20, 2013 22:37:53 GMT -6
In Tennessee everybody is a run first team it seems like. I'd venture to guess that 90% of the state is in either the I Formation, Wing T, or Wishbone...the other 10% is doing Pistol/Spread stuff. The vertical passing attack is almost non existent around here, I'm hoping to change that in the near future. What part of the state are you in, coachseth? I haven't seen a true wishbone team at the HS level since my own playing days in the 90s. WE were that team I do know of some flexbone and a bunch of spread. Usually the spread teams are awful, but the good ones are very tough. Way more than 10% are running it in our neck of the woods. I agree that the I/multiple pro stuff is very common, but as a coach I've only faced 1 true old school Wing-T team and rarely even seen it on opponents' film. I've been seeing a lot of pistol (especially 2 back, pro-I style pistol offenses) the past 2 years. I am in Murfreesboro, home of Riverdale, Oakland, Blackman, and Siegel...all of whom seem to make the playoffs on the regular. I guess it's not really a TRUE wishbone anymore, but I do consider the teams that run the flexbone to be using wishbone principals. And there is a major difference between the flexbone and the wing t, but we won't get started on that one. And the I agree the majority of spread teams in this area are just terrible. It is unreal how bad some of these teams actually are, and they think the spread is the way to neutralize not having a line...yet they run the same plays that I Formation teams run. Some coaches eh?
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Post by coachirvin on Nov 22, 2013 16:45:44 GMT -6
I am at the middle school level but I know in the Triad Area of NC we have a lot of spread and wing-t.
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Post by mrjvi on Nov 23, 2013 16:05:10 GMT -6
Our team (NY) is playing for the state championship this next Friday. We run double wing but we've seen mostly spread on our way here. Our toughest game was vs. a wing T before going into regionals. Our opponent for the championship runs both spread and single split power I. I'd say I've seen at least 75% of all teams running shotgun spread.
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Post by coachjimd on Nov 30, 2013 19:37:49 GMT -6
In northern nj we see everything. But a lot of teams are wing t, both traditional and jet. Is say 5-7 years ago mostly even defenses. This year we saw only one.
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Post by calhoun44 on Dec 20, 2013 13:52:50 GMT -6
Southern Ohio and West Virginia the wing-t is the most prominent, but you are starting to see a few air raid and spread teams also
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Post by holmesbend on Dec 20, 2013 22:08:34 GMT -6
Chuke has since passed away in the past few years. It was Belly double dive series. I think he ran both inside and outside belly. They would ride the RB and either hand off to the first or second back or keep. Now I know there are plenty of other people that run Belly/Double Dive but he was considered THE GUY or pretty darn close here in KY. The other thing was Chuke was a strange bird. I never met the guy but everyone I have heard talk about him talked about how he would smoke on the sidelines and wore flipflops all the time. ..and, in practice. I didn't play for Chuke, but two of my closest friends from college…one, who is probably still my closest friend played QB for Chuke. They tell stories about Chuke coming into the practice huddle, and in Chuke's way asking them if they wanted a hit off of it or not? lol Flip flops, wisbone belly-double dive, cig smoking and permed out. Never played for him, but he was a character. I was able to get to know him through my dad, Dudley Hilton, Mike Holcomb, etc…all that crew who were about the same age & quite frankly, cut from the same tooth in their styles (minus the perms, cig smoking on the sidelines and flip flops).
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Post by morris on Dec 20, 2013 22:30:06 GMT -6
Chuke has since passed away in the past few years. It was Belly double dive series. I think he ran both inside and outside belly. They would ride the RB and either hand off to the first or second back or keep. Now I know there are plenty of other people that run Belly/Double Dive but he was considered THE GUY or pretty darn close here in KY. The other thing was Chuke was a strange bird. I never met the guy but everyone I have heard talk about him talked about how he would smoke on the sidelines and wore flipflops all the time. ..and, in practice. I didn't play for Chuke, but two of my closest friends from college…one, who is probably still my closest friend played QB for Chuke. They tell stories about Chuke coming into the practice huddle, and in Chuke's way asking them if they wanted a hit off of it or not? lol Flip flops, wisbone belly-double dive, cig smoking and permed out. Never played for him, but he was a character. I was able to get to know him through my dad, Dudley Hilton, Mike Holcomb, etc…all that crew who were about the same age & quite frankly, cut from the same tooth in their styles (minus the perms, cig smoking on the sidelines and flip flops). I don't know who your dad is but that is one heck of a crew of coaches right there. Not always the most liked group by some but they all can couch and they win. I always heard Chuke was the master of the belly and would of lived to sat down with him for a day or two and learn it from him.
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Post by holmesbend on Dec 20, 2013 23:14:31 GMT -6
That they could and still can! A little rough around the edges, don't exactly "look the part" I guess you could say…don't talk to the talk…probably not going to be the tops of the list when it comes to clinic type speakers, but you nailed it; they win, and have won at places for a long period of time that will most likely never be duplicated. They just have "IT".
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Post by 43overcov4 on Dec 21, 2013 0:36:18 GMT -6
The area I'm in has the majority of 5-2/3-4 defenses playing cover 1 or cover 3. One 5-2 team plays cover 4. A couple of teams play the MSU 4-3 over, not many press the cbs every play. One team runs a 4-4 very well.
On offense we see I formation veer, spread with zone read and some with gap scheme, ski-gun(flexbone, but everybody is in short pistol) is big in our area,a great local wing-t school, and a double tight shotgun spread(Brian Kelly at gvsu style).
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Post by cc on Dec 21, 2013 10:29:26 GMT -6
What is the MALE CONFUSION DEFENSE? When I google it there was a lot of non-football websites to say the least..
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Post by morris on Dec 21, 2013 10:40:35 GMT -6
What is the MALE CONFUSION DEFENSE? When I google it there was a lot of non-football websites to say the least.. It's a defense created by Bob Redman. It was first called the Wagner 53. It is a high pressure cov 0 defense. Look for Trinity vs Male on YouTube. It's a state championship game. You'll see it. It gets torched by Coverdale's offense but the year before Trunity got rolled by it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 11:15:36 GMT -6
I work with a former coach at my school who coached at a school in KY for a few years. The defense he describes them running sounds an awful lot like the Louisville Male Confusion Defense. 5-3, all cover 0, all the time.
The whole philosophy of that defense vs. the pass was "Our guys don't have to be the better athletes. They just need to cover for a count of 3." It would get torched every now and then, but it won them a lot of games and a state championship.
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Post by lochness on Dec 21, 2013 13:10:41 GMT -6
This past season we saw:
1 Wishbone double TE (no option, all power) 1 2 TE Wing-tish Offense (trap, WB counter, QB sweep) 2 Wing T (one jet sweep based, one trap, buck, belly based) 2 DW teams 2 spread Gun (one jets, IZ, gap stuff, the other threw the ball 50 times) 1 Pistol Hodge-Podge (all zone blocking)
And we are a multiple pro team (Mostly 21 personnel)
defensively, we saw: 5 4-4 teams 2 3-3 teams 1 4-3 team 1 WTF team
and we ran a 3-4
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Post by mariner42 on Dec 21, 2013 15:20:57 GMT -6
The Fly and the Double Wing used to be fairly regional offenses in Mid-Cal. Less so now, but back in the late 90's/early 00's those offenses were VERY common (my jr year was 2/10 Fly and 3/10 DW).
These days, the Wing-T is somewhat common in some form, plenty of folks with shotgun packages but few with good passing offenses, practically no triple option exists in this part of the world. People will run double option off a dive fake, stuff like that, but I never see true triple option.
Saw one team run something like the Single Wing on film from one of our opponents, thought that was pretty sweet. Worthless film for actual scouting, but fun to watch for sure.
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Post by morris on Dec 21, 2013 17:46:30 GMT -6
I work with a former coach at my school who coached at a school in KY for a few years. The defense he describes them running sounds an awful lot like the Louisville Male Confusion Defense. 5-3, all cover 0, all the time. The whole philosophy of that defense vs. the pass was "Our guys don't have to be the better athletes. They just need to cover for a count of 3." It would get torched every now and then, but it won them a lot of games and a state championship. Where did he coach? The defense has a strong and weak side. On the strong side they outnumbered you and the weak side players were all the best players. Pure cov with back to the ball and trail. It is slanting and stunting a ton. Redman came up with it I would say in the 80s or so. It wasn't till the passing games got more complex it start getting hurt.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 18:15:39 GMT -6
I live right on the Iowa/Illinois border and coached for years in Illinois before taking my current job. In Iowa, we see a lot of two-back shotgun stuff, which we run as well. Out of our nine opponents, we played two teams that are primarily Pro-I and one that's a fullhouse Power I team. The other 6 I would all classify as shotgun/spread-to-run teams.
The Illinois teams in my area are all pretty much Wing T based. Carthage/Illini West--which all Illinois coaches are probably familiar with--have had a lot of success running the Wing T for at least 30 years now and several assistants have become HCs at other schools and have taken the Wing T with them to their new jobs.
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