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Post by Yash on Nov 23, 2007 21:53:01 GMT -6
So after McFadden's explosive day, lets get a little heisman talk going. Usually the Heisman is the best player on the best team, but this year there isn't a clear best player or best team. I think the Heisman is pretty wide open this year, but I believe it will come down between Tebow and McFadden. Now I think Colt Brennan could steal some votes. But really the heisman race is a microcosm of what college football is this year. There isn't a clear cut anything. So lets hear who SHOULD win the heisman and why you think so. This isn't trying to start an argument, just trying to see what everyone thinks, so lets keep it nice!
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Post by coachjaz on Nov 23, 2007 22:06:47 GMT -6
I think McFadden will be next years AP. He will go top 5 and might be a STAR right out of the gates
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Post by wildcat on Nov 23, 2007 22:07:33 GMT -6
Colt is not looking really sharp tonight...unless he really pours it on in the 2nd Half, this is a 2-horse race.
McFadden was unreal today...can a guy on a 7-4 team win the Heisman?
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Post by coachjaz on Nov 23, 2007 22:10:44 GMT -6
He should be able to, but with today's media the way it is who knows. Hell OL and defensive players SHOULD be able to win it.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 23, 2007 22:13:15 GMT -6
McFadden was unreal today...can a guy on a 7-4 team win the Heisman? Arkansas is now 8-4. Is that really all that much different from a 8-3 Florida team with Tebow? |
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Post by wildcat on Nov 23, 2007 22:19:01 GMT -6
I don't know...
Has it ever happened before? What is the worst record for a team that had a Heisman winner?
Also, the Heisman race was really down to two candidates before Dixon was injured...McFadden wasn't really in that conversation. Does this performance today, late in the season, in primetime, against the #1 team in the country, help McFadden make up the distance that was between him and Tebow just 5 short hours ago?
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Post by carookie on Nov 23, 2007 22:21:50 GMT -6
Whatever QB leads his team to a W in the Mizzu/Kansas game will be in the catbird seat; Unless its sloppy. I'm not talking should I'm just saying will. McFadden will be next in line and if the aforementioned winning QB slips up in the big12 title game he'll be there. I think Pat White can make a run too; but he needs a big showing. It'll come down to how the west coast votes go. Everyone this side of the Rockies was set to give it to Dixon it is now the region without a candidate, should swing the vote. As for Tebow, I think too many will vote no on a sophomore.
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Post by coachnichols on Nov 23, 2007 22:25:53 GMT -6
I don't know... Has it ever happened before? What is the worst record for a team that had a Heisman winner? Didn't Paul Hornung win it on a Notre Dame team that had a losing record? I'm waiting until after tomorrow's KU vs. Missouri game. I'm not a fan of either, but I think a ton of voters are going to wait and see how the two QB's do in this big game. If one kills it, then the voters will probably wait and see how that QB does in the Big 12 championship. Unfortunately this award seems to have turned into a popularity and numbers contest. Either one of the QB's in the tomorrow's show down can seal it up with great numbers and a win, IMHO. |
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Post by wildcat on Nov 23, 2007 22:27:49 GMT -6
Not sure.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 23, 2007 22:28:15 GMT -6
I don't know... Has it ever happened before? What is the worst record for a team that had a Heisman winner? Didn't Paul Hornung win it on a Notre Dame team that had a losing record? Yes... From Wikipedia: Hornung, nicknamed the "Golden Boy," won the Heisman Trophy in 1956 as the year’s outstanding player in the United States College football and is the only player from a losing team (his University of Notre Dame team finished 2-8 that year) ever to win the trophy. I don't its likely that this would happen again. |
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Post by Yash on Nov 23, 2007 23:45:47 GMT -6
But the thing is, there isn't a clear number one, so therefore there isn't a clear best player on the best team ala troy smith last year. Which is why I think McFadden could win it. no one stands out so dominent that I think a 8-4 team has a great shot of having a hesiman this year. It might truly go to the best player this year instead of just the best player on the best team.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 24, 2007 0:53:31 GMT -6
Colt Brennan
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Post by Yash on Nov 24, 2007 9:41:51 GMT -6
I'm going to oppose your colt brennan by saying he plays an extremely weak schedule composed of 2 Div 1AA teams. McFadden runs for over 200 yards against a team that hadn't allowed a 100 yard rusher all game. One game doesn't win a heisman, but the later in the season you have your best game, the fresher it is in the voters mind. Explain why you think brennan should, I'm interested to hear.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 24, 2007 10:11:21 GMT -6
my problem with colt brennan is that nobody has ever bothered to calculate how many of those yards come from bubbles and tunnels, which really don't require much on his part.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 24, 2007 10:20:11 GMT -6
Is Brennan really any more of a "system" QB then Detmer was at BYU?! In fact, I just hate the "system" QB label. Doesn't everybody play in a system?
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Post by wiaa3 on Nov 24, 2007 10:23:46 GMT -6
If the Heisman is really supposed to go to the best player in college football...then it has to be Darren McFadden!
Tebow is a complete stud, but what McFadden has done with his supporting cast (compared to Tebow's) is unreal.
My Heisman finsih...
1. McFadden
2. Tebow
3. Daniel
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 24, 2007 10:38:09 GMT -6
i agree prez..., BUT I do think it fits in THIS context. His gaudy numbers contain "run game" yards, SO if the decision is based on those numbers, then i think that needs to be taken into consideration.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 24, 2007 12:28:33 GMT -6
The Heisman aside, does anyone really doubt that Brennan will be drafted and have a shot in the NFL. They mentioned during the game that Mel Kiper had Brennan as his #8 senior QB.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 24, 2007 13:04:54 GMT -6
I don't know, I haven't seen him play enough to evaluate his skills. That is what kiper supposedly does for a living, so I tend to defer to those guys. His statistics are impressive, but as I said, how many of those yards are due to bubbles, tunnels, and other screens, vs the digs, comebacks, and other more challenging routes.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 24, 2007 13:36:55 GMT -6
I like Brennan, from what I've seen of him. But if people are going to put him in the Heisman race, they need to consider Graham Harrell also. The kid's stats are actually better than Brennan's and against Big 12 teams. I understand that Hawaii is undefeated; but undefeated in the WAC isn't exactly a milestone for college football...
...............................G QBRat Att Comp Pct Yds Y/A Y/G TD Int Long
......Graham Harrell 12 160.5 644 468 72.7 5298 8.2 441.5 45 14 75
......Colt Brennan 10 163.4 422 295 69.9 3732 8.8 373.2 33 14 67
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 24, 2007 13:49:58 GMT -6
I like Brennan, from what I've seen of him. But if people are going to put him in the Heisman race, they need to consider Graham Harrell also. I agree 100%. |
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 24, 2007 16:57:36 GMT -6
Pat White is destroying the UConn defense. Has someone else played themselves back into the Heisman race?
Darren McFadden, Colt Brennan and Pat White have all had great games. Who will it be tonight--Todd Reesing or Chase Daniel?
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Post by coachmacplains on Nov 24, 2007 22:00:46 GMT -6
I hate Heisman talk in that it has never been about the "best player". What leaves one scratching his head this year is the near absence of Chase Daniel's name in the discussion. I think McFadden and Tebow are great players, but one of the "unwritten rules" is that the winner must play on a team that wins a lot, such as high BCS status (at least, that is what we have been led to believe). How many times have we heard in recent years that such and such a player just doesn't play on a team that wins enough, so therefore we have to award the trophy to player from powerful team from certain part of the country. So, in present context, if Tebow or McFadden play for an 8-4 Missouri and Chase Daniel plays for 10-1 Arkansas or Florida, whose name do you suppose would be given greater consideration, given the same numbers they have put up? So much of this stuff is media driven and about what programs get the respect of those talking heads who drive the hype and, in some cases, cast votes.
BTW I have a great deal of respect for the SEC and I am in no way a Missouri guy. But I also like Brennan, but I wonder if he'll get any better than runner-up, playing at Hawaii.
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 24, 2007 22:03:30 GMT -6
BTW I have a great deal of respect for the SEC and I am in no way a Missouri guy. But I also like Brennan, but I wonder if he'll get any better than runner-up, playing at Hawaii. I think preseason polls, projections, and rankings have far too much bias on both the polls and the Heisman. |
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Post by khalfie on Nov 24, 2007 22:24:46 GMT -6
The Heisman belongs to Tebow... open and shut... too many run yards... too many passing yards... a million td's...
And all of those loses are explained away by playing in the SEC...
Crown his a$$e$ already... he is, who we thought he was!
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Post by theprez98 on Nov 24, 2007 22:27:36 GMT -6
The Heisman belongs to Tebow... open and shut... too many run yards... too many passing yards... a million td's... And all of those loses are explained away by playing in the SEC... Crown his a$$e$ already... he is, who we thought he was! Explained away?! I agree the SEC is the toughest conference this year, but that doesn't "explain away" three losses. If "too many yards" and "a million tds" are what you want, there are others in front of Tebow. |
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Post by wildcat on Nov 24, 2007 22:29:23 GMT -6
The Heisman belongs to Tebow... open and shut... too many run yards... too many passing yards... a million td's... And all of those loses are explained away by playing in the SEC... Crown his a$$e$ already... he is, who we thought he was! ...but you let him off the hook! |
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Post by coachorr on Nov 25, 2007 0:23:13 GMT -6
If Brennan is a '"system" QB, and that is why he is not a nominee, then you must eliminate Tebow as well, because Urban Mire runs a system as well.
If you say that it is because the WAC is weak, well ok I will buy that, but many other players have played some weak teams, but what none of them have done is win every game and throw for 126 career TD's and I am not sure many of the TD passes were tunnel screens.
Where would HI be without Brenan, same place as Oregon is without Dickson.
Bottom line, Hawai'i is off the money map. Since they are not a BIG NAME in college football that will boost TV ratings, they will not get the necessary recognition.
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Post by poweriguy on Nov 25, 2007 1:36:17 GMT -6
I agree the SEC is the toughest conference this year, but that doesn't "explain away" three losses. The three wins over Western Kentucky, Troy and Florida Atlantic more than make up for those three SEC loses.  |
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Post by wiaa3 on Nov 25, 2007 7:45:06 GMT -6
"Where would HI be without Brenan, same place as Oregon is without Dickson."
Actually, when Brennan was out against Nevada the back-up QB threw for like 350 yards. I don't know how good Brennan really is, I guess we might just have to wait until the draft combine and things like that.
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