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Post by Coach Bennett on May 20, 2013 10:13:12 GMT -6
What drills do you run without a ball and what's your goal in doing so?
I know some defenses will run "no ball" drills for option responsibilities and I was just reading an article on receivers running routes without a ball.
Others?
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Post by charger11 on May 20, 2013 14:52:42 GMT -6
I run my option drills with 3 footballs (dive, QB, pitch). I guess it serves the same purpose.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2013 15:04:43 GMT -6
I really like the idea of running defensive drills without a ball, like option drills, anything to teach LBs to key Gs and DL to play BDSD, or even a full-on team session. I believe it would be especially good for coaching DL to stay low and fight pressure rather than trying to stand up and look for the ball, especially if you coach them to key the man across from them rather than the snap of the ball for their get-off. I've pushed for our DC to incorporate some of this into our practices, but he's skeptical.
I feel like it really teaches and reinforces reading keys over playing "see ball, get ball," but the risk is that your kids might throw everything out the window as soon as they actually see a live football in the mix. They've got to understand the reason for the drill and that adding a ball doesn't change anything for them.
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Post by silkyice on May 20, 2013 15:13:50 GMT -6
Option drills, zone read, power read, midline, etc. Any option drill where we are working on assignments and responsibilities half-speed.
We also work many of defensive coverages without throwing a ball. Making sure that everyone has the correct leverage.
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Post by pvogel on May 20, 2013 15:55:41 GMT -6
I know a wing T coach who does a drill that just does cadence on motion drills at a fast pace. Just focuses on shifting, motioning and firing off on the correct cadence. He says it does wonders in taking care of that stuff then so that when team comes around its not an issue. I believe he does it like 5 minutes everyday.
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Post by agap on May 20, 2013 18:42:21 GMT -6
We do run fits without a ball sometimes. Teaches them to go to the right spot instead of trying to make the tackle every time.
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Post by newhope on May 21, 2013 7:12:28 GMT -6
I once coached a baseball team that was so bad we took pregame infield without a ball so the other team wouldn't know how bad some of them were. I've thought of doing that with some of our WRs. Sorry, not exactly on topic.
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Post by John Knight on May 21, 2013 8:36:22 GMT -6
We do run fits without a ball sometimes. Teaches them to go to the right spot instead of trying to make the tackle every time.
Not sure I agree with that at all!
I get what you are saying but I don't like the mind set.
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Post by Coach Bennett on May 21, 2013 8:42:59 GMT -6
We do run fits without a ball sometimes. Teaches them to go to the right spot instead of trying to make the tackle every time.Not sure I agree with that at all! I get what you are saying but I don't like the mind set. I think the point is to make sure everyone's assignment is sound and that there are no "heroes" out there sacrificing gap control for a picture in the paper. The mindset, as I see it, is to teach team defense and that everyone must do their job to be successful. To that end, I completely agree with it. |
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Post by agap on May 21, 2013 9:39:55 GMT -6
We do run fits without a ball sometimes. Teaches them to go to the right spot instead of trying to make the tackle every time.Not sure I agree with that at all! I get what you are saying but I don't like the mind set. Why don't you agree with it? |
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Post by cqmiller on May 21, 2013 9:57:13 GMT -6
We are not allowed to use a football in drills until Memorial day here... EVERYTHING is without football right now. Against WingT and Option teams we don't allow the football to be out there. We use one of the red scrimmage caps for the center to snap so the DL knows when "ball" is snapped, but then we have to have all 3 backs fit-up or someone did something wrong. Fastest way to get SMOKED vs. those offenses is to allow a kid to use the 'I saw the ball' line... Option and WingT coaches (good ones) are actively looking for that and once they have your defense looking for the ball, they are gonna score on a big one.
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Post by cqmiller on May 21, 2013 10:02:20 GMT -6
We do or can do every drill without a ball. Specifically inside run - which turns into a read drill without a ball. Forces them to read their keys instead of watching the ball all the time. You mean telling a defensive player "just find the football" isn't good coaching? Funny, there is another thread about this somewhere  |
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Post by mholst40 on May 21, 2013 10:03:19 GMT -6
What drills do you run without a ball and what's your goal in doing so? I know some defenses will run "no ball" drills for option responsibilities and I was just reading an article on receivers running routes without a ball. Others? On day 1 of install, we use a Half-Line drill without a ball. We do so in order to focus on route recognition and response without having to worry about playing the ball. As others have said, we will do a Read or run-fit drill without the ball as well. |
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Post by John Knight on May 21, 2013 10:34:12 GMT -6
I just don't know how realistic Run Fit drills are and we have done them every day. I know kids have to stay home and play their position but I still want them wanting to make the tackle, "do your job first and take that route to the ball!" is more my philosophy. I don't know if pursuit drills or fit drills really get you any closer to that.
Not saying everyone just run to the ball either, just do your job and take that path to the ball.
I will say it depends on how aggressive you kids are. If they are not very aggressive I think it can be to easy for them to just do my job.
Overly aggressive kids need these no ball run fits but I have not seen too many that do.
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Post by silkyice on May 21, 2013 10:53:39 GMT -6
I am a HUGE believer in run fits. After you fit your gap correctly, take on the block correctly, and destroy the block, then make the tackle.
It is funny, but we sure do tackle a lot better when we fit the gaps better.
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Post by larrymoe on May 21, 2013 11:22:05 GMT -6
Define run fits?
I don't think I've ever run a "run fit" drill in my life. Heck, I didn't even tell kids what "gap" they had when I coached defense.
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Post by mholst40 on May 21, 2013 11:42:42 GMT -6
Define run fits? I don't think I've ever run a "run fit" drill in my life. Heck, I didn't even tell kids what "gap" they had when I coached defense. I don't care about gaps because they change as soon as someone moves. Take our LBs for instance. We do a "Read" or "Run Fit" drill where they react to their guard read and take their initial steps towards their run fit based on the action of the other OL. We progress by adding a ball carrier later to make the "run-fit" more realistic. We drill this so they practice their response to the read that their key gives them. |
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Post by coachbdud on May 21, 2013 11:44:51 GMT -6
I am a HUGE believer in run fits. After you fit your gap correctly, take on the block correctly, and destroy the block, then make the tackle. It is funny, but we sure do tackle a lot better when we fit the gaps better. this makes perfect sense when they are fitting to their gaps as they move (as the offensive players move, make their blocks) they are tightening down and constricting available spaces to run the ball it is a lot easier to tackle in a phone booth than it is to tackle in a 5x5 box |
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on May 21, 2013 13:15:01 GMT -6
I love 7/7 with no ball - man or zone...
I am huge on pattern reading/matchup zone...
If you cover the man - the QB cannot throw...
Couple ways to do it...
Whole drill no ball or have QB just not throw sometimes...
I never tell the Defense, but they do figure it out....
If they cheat - throw the ball haha
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Post by coachbdud on May 21, 2013 13:45:30 GMT -6
I love 7/7 with no ball - man or zone... I am huge on pattern reading/matchup zone... If you cover the man - the QB cannot throw... Couple ways to do it... Whole drill no ball or have QB just not throw sometimes... I never tell the Defense, but they do figure it out.... If they cheat - throw the ball haha I like the idea of using it for defensive 7 on 7s... I hadnt thought of that before I will mention that to our DC, we are installing pattern matching coverage for the first time and I think that will be more beneficial to us right now than 7 on 7 with a ball |
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on May 21, 2013 16:15:31 GMT -6
I love 7/7 with no ball - man or zone... I am huge on pattern reading/matchup zone... If you cover the man - the QB cannot throw... Couple ways to do it... Whole drill no ball or have QB just not throw sometimes... I never tell the Defense, but they do figure it out.... If they cheat - throw the ball haha I like the idea of using it for defensive 7 on 7s... I hadnt thought of that before I will mention that to our DC, we are installing pattern matching coverage for the first time and I think that will be more beneficial to us right now than 7 on 7 with a ball IF THERE IS NO BALL TO LOOK AT, THEY CANNOT CHEAT!!! IT ALSO HELPS FOR MAKING SURE THEY COVER THE "WHOLE" ROUTE, NOT JUST UNTIL THE BALL IS THROWN... FOR EXAMPLE, WE WOULD WALL ANY INSIDE ROUTES BUT WE NEVER GOT GREAT AT CARRYING THE ROUTE, AND I THINK THIS WAS BECAUSE WE NEVER HAD TO WALL AND CARRY THE ROUTE ENOUGH IN PRACTICE... NOW IF YOU PLAY SPOT DROPS - THIS DRILL SUCKS HAHA SIMPLE MATH THOUGH - IF WE DROP 7 AND THEY PUT OUT 5 - WE WIN... IF WE COVER ROUTES NOT SPOTS... |
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Post by Defcord on May 23, 2013 10:27:09 GMT -6
We do or can do every drill without a ball. Specifically inside run - which turns into a read drill without a ball. Forces them to read their keys instead of watching the ball all the time. You mean telling a defensive player "just find the football" isn't good coaching? Funny, there is another thread about this somewhere I heard a head coach of a state team in NC give a one hour lecture about his defense. He said their defensive philosophy was "see ball; get ball!" He talked about a few other things as as well but he said he wanted them to get to the football. It was kind of cool. |
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Post by cqmiller on May 23, 2013 10:32:53 GMT -6
That was all he coached? I'm not saying that you shouldn't tell the players to get to the football, but if that is your 'coaching' how do you stop option and wingT? We use all the "fly to the football" stuff, but that is always their final 'read' once they have done their responsibility first.
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Post by John Knight on May 23, 2013 11:16:09 GMT -6
The truth of the matter is you have to have a pretty good scout team to get anything out of read and react drills. You can draw cards for ever but until they can look at a card and tell their assignment and technique a typical scout O is a big ol' clusterhump!
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Post by fantom on May 23, 2013 11:20:32 GMT -6
You mean telling a defensive player "just find the football" isn't good coaching? Funny, there is another thread about this somewhere I heard a head coach of a state team in NC give a one hour lecture about his defense. He said their defensive philosophy was "see ball; get ball!" He talked about a few other things as as well but he said he wanted them to get to the football. It was kind of cool. Don't believe everything that you hear at a clinic. |
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Post by fantom on May 23, 2013 11:21:23 GMT -6
The truth of the matter is you have to have a pretty good scout team to get anything out of read and react drills. You can draw cards for ever but until they can look at a card and tel there assignment and technique a typical scout O is a big ol' clusterhump! Including a ball doesn't make it any less so. |
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Post by John Knight on May 23, 2013 18:35:44 GMT -6
I disagree, but you are welcome to your opinion!
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Post by fantom on May 23, 2013 19:45:30 GMT -6
I disagree, but you are welcome to your opinion! I'm not trying to be argumentative but I'm trying to wrap my head around what your scout team is doing. If they're not showing the opponents' blocking schemes so that the defense can read and react what are they doing? In my experience scout teamers may not be able to execute the blocks but after looking at a picture of the play they're generally in the right place most of the time. |
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Post by John Knight on May 24, 2013 4:56:26 GMT -6
Fanthom, when you are as thin as we have been the last few years it is hard to get much out of the scout team. Sure does reflect in the record, got us fired this past year btw.
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Post by John Knight on May 24, 2013 7:19:54 GMT -6
#6 - How the heck did he speak for 1 hour on "see ball, get ball"?
I am sure he told some killer jokes and stories!
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