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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 9:26:11 GMT -6
Title pretty much says it all doesn't it? Around here, asst. coaches don't grow on trees and we're lucky to have them, but what do you do when what you got is all your gonna get, and what you got is pretty bad? I don't mind young guys who are willing to learn and just plain don't know. These guys are the ones you can mold and train, only to have them leave you for a coordinating or head coaching gig when you really need them the most (can you detect a hint of sarcasm there...just kidding!). The ones that are the tough nuts are the older coaches who aren't willing to change or have been there and done that and plain ol' don't care about your new fangled "wizardry" you are bringing in to ressurrect Program X that has been O-fer for the past decade. So how do HC's, coordinators etc. manage when, like with our players, you have to play the hand you're dealt with your coaches?
Duece
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Post by jgordon1 on May 13, 2013 10:20:43 GMT -6
If you figure that out you better write a book (another one)..It plagues most professions, especially ones with large bureaucracies
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Post by carookie on May 13, 2013 10:37:28 GMT -6
Ive never been a HC, but have coordinated with some success. 1st thing is to teach them EXACTLY what drills they will be teaching, how to teach them, and why (this why part will eventually build up the understanding of the system we are running). Then, make sure they are doing what theyve been told; have a practice schedule that dictates what specifically will be done at every time (I mean exactly what drill they are doing every minute). Remind them, in whatever way that best fits you, that YOU are in charge, and they will do what you say.
Honestly, if your coaches arent doing what you tell them, then adios. Consider if your QB was consistently changing plays in the huddle and running what he wanted instead of what you called; even if he were by far the best you have you wouldnt let this stand. It should be no different with coaches. I had a buddy who took over at a struggling program, and virtually all of his lower level coaches were the "older coaches" you mentioned. They never ran his system, despite this he held on to them and it really hurt his progress. I dont know how readily available coaches are in your area (or even just people willing to be there); but a warm body whose gonna do nothing but stand around, clap, and explain to the kids the drill exactly as you have explained it to him is better than someone whose gonna cut your legs out from under you.
And if there arent any warm bodies in your town, and you dont have enough coaches on your staff who are willing to do what it is you ask of them.....you're SOL.
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Post by newhope on May 13, 2013 10:53:47 GMT -6
I think what Deuce is talking about, and what many coach's face, is not whether or not they are the best he can get, but that they are all that he can get and he is stuck with them---so it's not like replacing a QB who doesn't do what you want. As I understand what he is saying, there are no replacements. I think most of us have been stuck with some guys we'd rather not have. Few can say that every coach they have is what they want. The bad news is when thre is a significant number like Deuce described---and you can't replace them. In today's economic climate, when teaching jobs are few and far between, it is tough to bring in good help, even if you have an administration that is willing to help you. A friend of mine just got rid of some dead weight that had been around for a dozen years. About the only thing he brought to the table was a CDL--but my friend couldn't find anyone to replace him even at that.
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Post by cqmiller on May 13, 2013 10:56:33 GMT -6
Let me know if you find out... got a bunch of guys that want to "call plays" but not a lot want to do all the work, planning, prep, learning, and TIME required to earn that right. Gets very frustrating. I'm dealing with some of it right now. Guy I wouldn't even trust to be my WR coach last season is now the OC at a school we play in our league... Unless he multiplies his time and effort by about 100, they should be awful this season. Lost 3 coaches from last year... not losing sleep over any of them specifically, but it is 6 less eyeballs at every practice. Trying to find more eyeballs right now.
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Post by coachweav88 on May 13, 2013 11:10:16 GMT -6
With bad coaches who won't change, if you can't fire them, would it be better to just run mostly team with you doing all the coaching, or would it be better to break up in individual groups with crappy instruction?
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Post by coachwoodall on May 13, 2013 11:14:47 GMT -6
does this thread preclude the saying 'there are more good coaches than good programs'?
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Post by Coach Bennett on May 13, 2013 11:15:31 GMT -6
Doesn't help your immediate situation(s) but do you all host local coaches clinics for youth and aspiring coaches?
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Post by rsmith627 on May 13, 2013 11:24:27 GMT -6
Let me know if you find out... got a bunch of guys that want to "call plays" but not a lot want to do all the work, planning, prep, learning, and TIME required to earn that right. Gets very frustrating. I'm dealing with some of it right now. Guy I wouldn't even trust to be my WR coach last season is now the OC at a school we play in our league... Unless he multiplies his time and effort by about 100, they should be awful this season. Lost 3 coaches from last year... not losing sleep over any of them specifically, but it is 6 less eyeballs at every practice. Trying to find more eyeballs right now. I'll come call your plays CQ. I don't need to be at practice though do I? Also, don't bother getting me into Hudl...I won't be needing that.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 11:25:17 GMT -6
I think what Deuce is talking about, and what many coach's face, is not whether or not they are the best he can get, but that they are all that he can get and he is stuck with them---so it's not like replacing a QB who doesn't do what you want. As I understand what he is saying, there are no replacements. I think most of us have been stuck with some guys we'd rather not have. Few can say that every coach they have is what they want. The bad news is when thre is a significant number like Deuce described---and you can't replace them. In today's economic climate, when teaching jobs are few and far between, it is tough to bring in good help, even if you have an administration that is willing to help you. A friend of mine just got rid of some dead weight that had been around for a dozen years. About the only thing he brought to the table was a CDL--but my friend couldn't find anyone to replace him even at that. This is more along the lines of what I was talking about. Duece
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Post by Coach Bennett on May 13, 2013 11:34:55 GMT -6
For your volunteers, are they expected to be there everyday?
I have a buddy who runs our special teams but his schedule simply does not allow him to be a M-F guy. In the offseason we figure out two days he can commit to and I adjust our practice plan accordingly. We basically rep the heck out of specials on "his" days. We're a small school, though, so perhaps it's simpler here...
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 11:36:19 GMT -6
In answer to coachweav88's question, if you have that little confidence in your assistants, I imagine it would be better to run as much team/7 on 7/inside run as much as possible to you can work with big groups most of the time and do most of the coaching yourself.
In terms of dealing directly with the coaches, I wouldn't change anything. I'd still have my staff meetings and whatnot and tell them what needs done in hopes that finally/eventually it will hit home and they'll do it.
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Post by carookie on May 13, 2013 11:42:31 GMT -6
How many good coaches you got? Are you willing to spread them out? Casey Stengel once said one of his keys to success was, "keeping the guys who didnt like him away from those who were undecided".
Maybe if you spread those coaches who are insubordinate throughout the program and have some of your better coaches working closely with them you can diffuse their negative influence.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 13, 2013 11:42:38 GMT -6
Let's see: We Complain about administration We Complain about AD's We Complain about lack of leadership on our team We Complain about other assistants
Is there anything beside ourselves we don't complain about
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Post by fantom on May 13, 2013 12:01:21 GMT -6
Let's see: We Complain about administration We Complain about AD's We Complain about lack of leadership on our team We Complain about other assistants Is there anything beside ourselves we don't complain about You know, now that you mention it, I suck.
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 13, 2013 12:10:32 GMT -6
I'm horrible.
Now with that out of the way...
This is how I avoided an AC I couldn't trust to teach anything: He was the OL/DL guy until it became obvious the 2nd week of practice he didn't know a single thing. Thus, I did a rotation deal where when I was coaching OL, our OBs went to pass skel. When I was coaching OBs, our OL did 1on1's, boards, or hit the sleds. When we went to inside run/team, I had Coach Slappy set up the scout defense. During a game, I would have him 'stand down there to get a view of the OL' and ignore him.
That was after offering every teaching tool I could possibly offer (extra time with me on the chalk board, burned him DVDs, sent links to coaching clinics both online and locally, and offered books/magazines). You can lead a horse to water but you can't stop him from drowning. I tried every tactic (nice, joking, tough).
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Post by coachbdud on May 13, 2013 12:17:49 GMT -6
You can try being nice... followed by being more stern about it
if both the good cop and bad cop acts fail then I guess all you can really do is get rid of them
sometimes addition through subtraction is best
as an OC and OL coach I have brought someone in I trust to help me with the OL... so now I can rotate back and forth between them and the QBs because we are lacking there but I think it will be overall much better than last year when we had a dedicated QB coach but who wasnt always on the same page with everyone else
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Post by breakerdog on May 13, 2013 13:10:15 GMT -6
In my "other job" I am a project manager for a large construction company. Asset management is maybe the largest part of my scope. Here is a real simple rule of thumb that I use when dealing with folks who don't necessarily perform to the standards I expect.
"What is the alternative? Is it better?"
I won't get rid of anyone unless I have a better plan. If the better plan is nobody, addition by subtraction, then fire away.
One thing that has been successful for me is narrowing someones scope. Break it right down to a small piece that they can handle and then, once they can prove it, give them more. I sometimes get a little flack when I pile stuff on one guy and only have small expectations of another. I always tell them to stop being so competent and trustworthy and I won't ask you to do so much.
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Post by sweep26 on May 13, 2013 13:34:33 GMT -6
Why would you take a job where you knew that you had absolutely no say regarding who was on your coaching staff?
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Post by buck42 on May 13, 2013 14:30:22 GMT -6
Thought I was the only one!!
I had a JV HC that decided to change the O...formations, plays, terminology everything. Needless to say that didn't go well. BC of our situation I addressed it with him and he refused to change. I then began to record every instance he didn't do as instructed. It took an act of Congress and my laying every single detail that he was to perform for him to walk away. He was a guy that was passed over 2-3 times for head job which was hard to do considering he was a size 8xl!
He caused friction with my staff and I am hoping that things will be better but there are two more guys on staff that have strong ties to him.
I wish I could hire some of those that have applied but not able to with this economic climate in our area.
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Post by Chris Clement on May 13, 2013 14:30:58 GMT -6
Bills?
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Post by coach2013 on May 13, 2013 14:48:48 GMT -6
Title pretty much says it all doesn't it? Around here, asst. coaches don't grow on trees and we're lucky to have them, but what do you do when what you got is all your gonna get, and what you got is pretty bad? I don't mind young guys who are willing to learn and just plain don't know. These guys are the ones you can mold and train, only to have them leave you for a coordinating or head coaching gig when you really need them the most (can you detect a hint of sarcasm there...just kidding!). The ones that are the tough nuts are the older coaches who aren't willing to change or have been there and done that and plain ol' don't care about your new fangled "wizardry" you are bringing in to ressurrect Program X that has been O-fer for the past decade. So how do HC's, coordinators etc. manage when, like with our players, you have to play the hand you're dealt with your coaches? Duece It is tough. Our state website has always had tons of jobs posted and it seems like nobody wants to coach. You can go to footballscoop.com and see tons of openings. Really, with the way coaching has gone, its tough to find folks that want to put in the kind of time that is needed. My expectations are high,but at the same time I realize my help is what it is, some is better than others, some is great, some is not great and probably wont be around long but ultimately, I need help and Ill take what I can get and find ways to get the most out of that coach. That , I think, Is the real key. find something that coach x can do to lighten your load and let him do it.
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Post by td4tc on May 13, 2013 17:11:57 GMT -6
i would say assistant coaches and their success depends on the same things that make the team successful my best teams were not always the ones with the best players..they were the teams that got along well and bought into "be a great teammate" same with assistant coaches..don't have to be the most knowledgable but really need to get along with the each other (and the kids) and the HC like a "family" AND buy into HC's system and everything will be OK..(better for post game drinking too).Give direction and oversee...gotta teach what you want them to
Also as an aside, our best year was when we had coaches from all ages like one big happy family 1) young just in or out of college (relate well to the kids today and their concerns and attitudes) = big brother 2) early middle age with experience to provide ingenuity = father 3) cagey retired veterans to provide stability= grandpa
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 17:47:58 GMT -6
Let's see: We Complain about administration We Complain about AD's We Complain about lack of leadership on our team We Complain about other assistants Is there anything beside ourselves we don't complain about How do you know when a coach is happy? He's complaining. Sent from my Desire HD using proboards
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Post by cqmiller on May 13, 2013 20:33:00 GMT -6
Trust me jgordon1 I am starting to wonder if the common denominator (me) is the reason. I feel like asking my assistant coaches to all put in only 1/2 as much time as me to not be unreasonable... Still waiting for one of my assistants to show me that they can be trusted with O, D, or ST. So tired of having to coordinate all 3 and do all the stats. It can get very tiring. My wife does WAY more than most of the assistant coaches Love that woman.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 20:40:44 GMT -6
Why would you take a job where you knew that you had absolutely no say regarding who was on your coaching staff? Then you wouldn't work around here. Hence the part of the OP that "coaches don't grow on trees around here". Duece
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Post by sweep26 on May 13, 2013 20:59:29 GMT -6
Why would you take a job where you knew that you had absolutely no say regarding who was on your coaching staff? Then you wouldn't work around here. Hence the part of the OP that "coaches don't grow on trees around here". Duece You are correct Coach, I probably would not work around there.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 21:02:31 GMT -6
Why would you take a job where you knew that you had absolutely no say regarding who was on your coaching staff? That's pretty common in a lot of places. The principal or AD may hire coaches "for you," or you may inherit tenured teacher/coaches who've been there for decades and are beloved despite being horrible at teaching football, but you're stuck with them.
Personally, I believe this is one of the big reasons why programs that are bad for a long time stay that way. The HC may be a great coach himself, but at those places he may be surrounded by a bunch of guys who are set in their ways and only have a job because they are (or at some time were) somebody's brother, cousin, college teammate, etc.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2013 4:40:59 GMT -6
Why would you take a job where you knew that you had absolutely no say regarding who was on your coaching staff? That's pretty common in a lot of places. The principal or AD may hire coaches "for you," or you may inherit tenured teacher/coaches who've been there for decades and are beloved despite being horrible at teaching football, but you're stuck with them.
Personally, I believe this is one of the big reasons why programs that are bad for a long time stay that way. The HC may be a great coach himself, but at those places he may be surrounded by a bunch of guys who are set in their ways and only have a job because they are (or at some time were) somebody's brother, cousin, college teammate, etc.I agree 100% with your statement. Dead on! Duece
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Post by John Knight on May 14, 2013 4:52:47 GMT -6
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