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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 9:00:04 GMT -6
We've got a kid that is a good kid, but his mother is a class A PITA. She has made him "quit" (each time only lasted a day or two) twice for things he's gotten into at home. He has said he wants to play and his mom is okay with him playing, but she keeps jerking him and us around threatening to pull him out, etc.
So, we've created a contract for her to sign that basically says "you won't let problems at home determine his status on the football team". She refuses to sign this contract.
Any suggestions? You hate to punish the kid, but it's gotten to be a huge distraction with the "in and out" stuff.
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Post by blockdownkickout on Apr 18, 2013 9:08:43 GMT -6
Let the kid come out. Don't punish him. But unfortunately you can't put him a spot where you're relying on him. That would be unfair to the rest of the kids
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 9:13:53 GMT -6
Let the kid come out. Don't punish him. But unfortunately you can't put him a spot where you're relying on him. That would be unfair to the rest of the kids Yup, this is the hard part because it's not like he's a slapd!ck. He's a 4.5 kid with a 35 inch vertical. His mother is just causing him all sorts of problems, which ends up being our problems.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 18, 2013 9:16:02 GMT -6
So your telling her she doesn't know how to raise her child and telling her your authority supersedes hers at home?
I wouldn't sign that either. No offense but you have no right to tell a parent what happens in their home can not have an effect on his playing status. No matter how wacked she is.
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 9:31:35 GMT -6
So your telling her she doesn't know how to raise her child and telling her your authority supersedes hers at home? I wouldn't sign that either. No offense but you have no right to tell a parent what happens in their home can not have an effect on his playing status. No matter how wacked she is. When her actions are effecting 100 other people, we certainly have a right to do that.
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Post by brophy on Apr 18, 2013 9:38:25 GMT -6
WHY would she be compelled to sign the contract? How is she obligated to adhere to it? How would you handle any other "in-and-out" kid?
*aren't the answers to all 3 an indication of a one-way motivation?
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 9:43:21 GMT -6
WHY would she be compelled to sign the contract? How is she obligated to adhere to it? How would you handle any other "in-and-out" kid?
*aren't the answers to all 3 an indication of a one-way motivation? She's not obligated to it, but she should certainly be compelled to sign it because it's what's best for her kid. Any other "in and out" kid we'd have kicked to the curb already, but this kid needs football to even graduate from high school. The structure, discipline, and academic monitoring he has gotten from our program has benefited him greatly.
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Post by brophy on Apr 18, 2013 9:47:17 GMT -6
WHY would she be compelled to sign the contract? How is she obligated to adhere to it? How would you handle any other "in-and-out" kid?
*aren't the answers to all 3 an indication of a one-way motivation? She's not obligated to it, but she should certainly be compelled to sign it because it's what's best for her kid. Any other "in and out" kid we'd have kicked to the curb already, but this kid needs football to even graduate from high school. The structure, discipline, and academic monitoring he has gotten from our program has benefited him greatly. let me rephrase those 3 questions What incentive does she have to sign your contract? lets say she signs it.... but doesn't abide by it. Whatcha gonna do? Sounds like she's holding all the cards. Maybe move on?
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Post by wingtol on Apr 18, 2013 9:47:47 GMT -6
No you don't. You can't tell a parent how to handle discipline in their own house (unless it's some kind of abuse situation).
So if your kids teachers sent home a contract that said "You can not ground your child for bad grades because it effects 100's of people" you would sing it and say ok you know how to raise my kid better than me?
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 9:49:28 GMT -6
She's not obligated to it, but she should certainly be compelled to sign it because it's what's best for her kid. Any other "in and out" kid we'd have kicked to the curb already, but this kid needs football to even graduate from high school. The structure, discipline, and academic monitoring he has gotten from our program has benefited him greatly. she signs it.... but doesn't abide by it. Whatcha gonna do? Good question. I would assume if the contract is broken, the kid is off the team. It's not my decision, as I'm not the head coach. I'm just trying to help advise the HC in this situation, because there are no easy answers here. I just wanted to get the opinions of the find minds of Coach Huey.
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Post by brophy on Apr 18, 2013 9:51:15 GMT -6
kids that break your heart (trust) will only set you up for failure down the road when you need them the most. I understand kids that need football more than football needs them, but this sounds like the opposite.
It also sets a bad precedent for the other kids who have committed to the program.
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 9:52:33 GMT -6
No you don't. You can't tell a parent how to handle discipline in their own house (unless it's some kind of abuse situation). So if your kids teachers sent home a contract that said "You can not ground your child for bad grades because it effects 100's of people" you would sing it and say ok you know how to raise my kid better than me? I don't see the connection here? This is not an apples-to-apples comparison. "Grounding" and playing football are not nearly the same things, as well is one student's grades (who effects only them, not 100's of people) is not even close to the same thing as a football team.
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 9:57:37 GMT -6
kids that break your heart (trust) will only set you up for failure down the road when you need them the most. I understand kids that need football more than football needs them, but this sounds like the opposite. It also sets a bad precedent for the other kids who have committed to the program. I agree, and he's let us down before. That's why we want to get this contract signed. And as far as your feeling that this is quite the opposite of this kid needing football, you are incorrect. He has great measurables and was a starter for us, but we would be just fine without him. Also, to be clear, his "in and out" have not resulted in missing workouts or practices. So, I'm not sure what's unfair about it to other kids.
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Post by newhope on Apr 18, 2013 9:58:05 GMT -6
The bottom line here is that the contract was a bad idea. Now you've backed yourself into a corner. If you back down, you lose. If you try to enforce that she wouldn't sign it, you lose. She, like every other parent, has you. It's her kid. All you could have done is explain to her up front that her pulling him off the team is detrimental to the team and to the kid, that you can't put too much faith and trust in the kid being there and relying on him because of her past actions in taking him off the team, and asking her to find alternative forms of punishment. It's a tough situation for the kid, but he's not the first, nor the last to suffer because of what a parent does. Bring her and the kid in together, tell her those things that you should have told her to start with instead of giving her a contract, and tell her that you are going to allow the kid to come out because you don't want to hurt him. Move on, learn your lesson, and hope for the best.
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Post by newhope on Apr 18, 2013 10:00:56 GMT -6
And make sure she understands that if she pulls him again, he's not coming back. You don't need a contract for that.
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Post by Coach Huey on Apr 18, 2013 10:01:38 GMT -6
why not "support" the mother's decision and have him focus on his grades, focus on his other responsibilities. You "support" her decision that participating in football is inhibiting his progress in other areas so you agree with her that he should be free from this obligation so that he can "get back to where she wants him".
See ya when I see ya!!!
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Post by coachdennis on Apr 18, 2013 10:02:06 GMT -6
It is frustrating when parents instantly go to football as the punishment for a kid's transgressions at home. For a parent, though, this is the ultimate low-hanging fruit. It's right there in front of them, they know it upsets the kid, so that is the button they press. Looking for other ways to punish the kid or change his behavior is hard, while yanking football is quick, easy, and probably has the desired (short term) effect.
Of course, this affects every other kid on the team, but you know what? The parent doesn't care. It just is not their problem, as a lot of them simply don't have any emotional investment in the team's fortunes in the win/loss column. (This is a variant of that old story, football is more important to us than it is to other people.) They have one focus, getting their kid to behave, and they feel that they have the right to do whatever they want to achieve that end.
In 23 years of coaching, I have learned two things. One is that we have no impact on the parenting skills, or lack thereof, of our players' parents. Second is that you never want to do or say anything that even remotely hints that a woman might not be making the right choices as a mother. (Watch women interact with other women - "unfit mother" is about the nastiest barb one woman can throw at another, and they know it.) That is an emotional landmine, and if you accidentally step on it you will never, ever be forgiven for it by that mom.
Long story short - just eat it, and strongly encourage your player to stay out of trouble at home. You don't control what the mom does at home, and by the sounds of it you have simply encouraged her now to dig in her heels even harder.
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Post by brophy on Apr 18, 2013 10:03:37 GMT -6
I agree, and he's let us down before. That's why we want to get this contract signed. And as far as your feeling that this is quite the opposite of this kid needing football, you are incorrect. He has great measurables and was a starter for us, but we would be just fine without him. Also, to be clear, his "in and out" have not resulted in missing workouts or practices. So, I'm not sure what's unfair about it to other kids. if you would not extend this courtesy to any other kids, then it is a disservice (rewarding kids that quit on you) to the others. YOU need the kid for football. Y'all are seeing this only through the lens of a coaching staff that has a stud player. Likely, a stud player who has no serious DI suitors yet (otherwise, momma's attitude would be significantly different). He isn't that special. Move on. A kid that needs football more than football needs him = troubled kid that you keep on the team, but serves a limited role. bottom line, none of us have the right to dictate parenting protocol for their own kids.
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Post by blb on Apr 18, 2013 10:05:02 GMT -6
I realize this may be a redundant or unnecessary question, but - what does his Dad have to say?
Just to fill in the "Big Picture."
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Post by Coach Huey on Apr 18, 2013 10:06:46 GMT -6
let the mother control her son. you control the team.
you have a player that isn't coming to team practices, games, etc. you control that. "support" the mother ... i.e. remove him from the team.
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Apr 18, 2013 10:07:29 GMT -6
This parent sounds like every teacher on my campus...
He won't do his homework coach - you need to bench him....
Mom needs to handle her business however she sees fit...
Teachers need to handle their chit in their classroom though - or call the mom...
sorry teachers are p!ssin me off lately...
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 10:11:34 GMT -6
blb- there is no dad is the picture. Single mom, with her hands very full raising kids. Not that it matters, but to provide more info; an African-American, low SES family.
brophy- we have never extended this to any other kid, because we haven't had this situation arise. I am confident the HC would so something similar if he felt that strongly about trying to help a kid out.
To the others- thanks for the responses. I agree that we don't have much leverage here, but I think it was worth a shot to try to get some sort of commitment/buy-in from her that we haven't had in the past.
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 18, 2013 10:13:37 GMT -6
let the mother control her son. you control the team. you have a player that isn't coming to team practices, games, etc. you control that. "support" the mother ... i.e. remove him from the team. Correct, but the mother is not trying to remove him from the team at this point. She did a couple days ago, there was a talk that took place, now she said she's fine with him playing. We don't want to keep dealing with this {censored}, we wanted an "all in" or "all out" answer, therefore the contract was offered up.
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Post by cwucat72 on Apr 18, 2013 10:17:08 GMT -6
I wouldn't sign the contract either... If a kid gets in trouble at school are they held accountable? If a kid gets bad grades are they held accountable? So if the kid gets in trouble at home he should be held accountable. A couple years ago our starting linebackers dad came in and asked me to suspend his son for a half on Senior night for deciding to take his dad's car and sneak out of the house. We have 3 standards on our team that our kids know and understand.(Stole them from Lou Holtz) Do and say what is right. Treat other people right. Do your best. So I suspended him for the first half of his senior night. If I expect the parents to have my back on tough calls then I should have theirs in teaching their son a tough life lesson.
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Post by blockdownkickout on Apr 18, 2013 10:17:38 GMT -6
I know this isn't the same situation but we had an issue two year ago that was similar. We coach at a pretty affluent school. Three different kids had parents tell them that they had a family vacation planned during football season. We had one kid miss a game to go on a cruise. Had another kid miss the entire first week of practice (before school started) to go on some sort of family vacation. What we have now added to our team rules is that if your parent pulls you out of practice it is an unexcused absence (obvious exception for funerals etc). You all are right, we can't tell them how to raise or discipline there kids. But we do have control of who is on our team. I probably wouldn't have done the contract either. But every practice he misses that is not because of illness or family emergency is unexcused. Follow your "unexcused miss" rule from there.
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Post by Coach Huey on Apr 18, 2013 10:29:08 GMT -6
let the mother control her son. you control the team. you have a player that isn't coming to team practices, games, etc. you control that. "support" the mother ... i.e. remove him from the team. Correct, but the mother is not trying to remove him from the team at this point. She did a couple days ago, there was a talk that took place, now she said she's fine with him playing. We don't want to keep dealing with this {censored}, we wanted an "all in" or "all out" answer, therefore the contract was offered up. There isn't a need for a contract to deal with "are you in or are you out?" You control the team. The "contract" should be an understanding that "if a player misses X number of team activities he will be excused from the team." She doesn't have to sign anything for that. How many chances do you give players? that is up to you ... once they've exceeded that, next step is removal. You don't need her approval for that. You don't need her to sign anything.
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Post by blb on Apr 18, 2013 10:29:26 GMT -6
This parent sounds like every teacher on my campus... He won't do his homework coach - you need to bench him.... Mom needs to handle her business however she sees fit... Teachers need to handle their chit in their classroom though - or call the mom... sorry teachers are p!ssin me off lately... Having been a classroom teacher for 19 years (before going into PE full-time) I always supported my colleagues when it came to our players' performance-behavior in school. After awhile though I got fed up with some of them trying to use me-football because they couldn't manage their classrooms. Math teacher: "Your football player is being disruptive in my class. What are you going to do about it?" Me: "Yeah, well your Geometry student fumbled on the Goal line last Friday night. What are YOU going to do about THAT?!"
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eagleoc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 208
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Post by eagleoc on Apr 18, 2013 10:59:29 GMT -6
I see the contract as a C.Y.A. thing for the coaches. If she refuses to sign, then note that. This just shows that you have tried to resolve the situation.
To me it seems like the main thing that you need to 'help' this mother understand that if this happens again, there is no coming back. If she truly wants her kid to play football then she will understand. If she chooses to pull him for punishment, then that is her prerogative, but there are also consequences. Just as you cannot tell her how to be a parents, she can't tell you how to run the program. The next time he misses, he is gone. I believe you have to treat each kid fairly, not equally. Because of this kid's situation it sounds like you have put up with some things that you wouldn't normally have put up with. And I believe that is ok.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 18, 2013 11:07:58 GMT -6
The bottom line here is that the contract was a bad idea. Now you've backed yourself into a corner. If you back down, you lose. If you try to enforce that she wouldn't sign it, you lose. She, like every other parent, has you. It's her kid. All you could have done is explain to her up front that her pulling him off the team is detrimental to the team and to the kid, that you can't put too much faith and trust in the kid being there and relying on him because of her past actions in taking him off the team, and asking her to find alternative forms of punishment. It's a tough situation for the kid, but he's not the first, nor the last to suffer because of what a parent does. Bring her and the kid in together, tell her those things that you should have told her to start with instead of giving her a contract, and tell her that you are going to allow the kid to come out because you don't want to hurt him. Move on, learn your lesson, and hope for the best. THIS. The mom needs help with this kid. It sounds like she can't control him without the threat of pulling him off. What happens when you call her bluff? If she is having a hard time now, how in the world is she going to control him without football? No one wins if he is off the team. You don't get the player. The kid doesn't get to play. And the mom will lose the threat of pulling him off. Great idea for her to find an alternate form of punishment. As a matter of fact, the best thing you can do is for YOU to become the form of punishment. See if you can work with her to help the kid, but make sure she knows that you aren't going to be jerked around either. Instead of being her enemy, be her adversary. Also, get the kid straightened out and make sure he knows to do what his mom says. Isn't that what she really wants anyways?
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Apr 18, 2013 11:23:18 GMT -6
This parent sounds like every teacher on my campus... He won't do his homework coach - you need to bench him.... Mom needs to handle her business however she sees fit... Teachers need to handle their chit in their classroom though - or call the mom... sorry teachers are p!ssin me off lately... Having been a classroom teacher for 19 years (before going into PE full-time) I always supported my colleagues when it came to our players' performance-behavior in school. After awhile though I got fed up with some of them trying to use me-football because they couldn't manage their classrooms. Math teacher: "Your football player is being disruptive in my class. What are you going to do about it?" Me: "Yeah, well your Geometry student fumbled on the Goal line last Friday night. What are YOU going to do about THAT?!" Standing ovation with slow clap and a tear running down my cheek...
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