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Post by larrymoe on Apr 18, 2013 11:55:44 GMT -6
Cut ties. You're wasting your time and just setting yourself up for future disappointments one way or another.
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 18, 2013 12:27:41 GMT -6
I've realized over the years that player contracts are really only to cover the HC and AD's butt if the kid gets caught drinking, with drugs, gets in trouble in school etc., and he needs to be penalized in some way, i.e. suspended for a game, season, etc. The HC and AD can say "you signed the contract and know the consequences of your actions." The players don't think about the contract when making decisions on a Friday or Saturday night with their friends. They drink, smoke, do things they shouldn't. The contract isn't a deterent. They would make the same stupid mistakes with or without a contract.
As for this contract for the mother, it may sound like a decent idea. but there's no way she would abide by it whether it was signed or not. She's gonna control the way she raises her son.
A parent contract like this would probably never be allowed to be written up in my area. An AD would advise and tell our HC not to do it. Did you run this by your AD?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by coach2013 on Apr 18, 2013 12:30:53 GMT -6
Who cares if the mother wont sign the contract, set expectations for the kid, hold him accountable. If his mothers crazy, he cant help that. In the end, neither can you. worry about what you can actually control. Make the kid part of your program but dont be stupid, you cant count on this kids.
Football is about trust.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 18, 2013 21:21:38 GMT -6
So your telling her she doesn't know how to raise her child and telling her your authority supersedes hers at home? I wouldn't sign that either. No offense but you have no right to tell a parent what happens in their home can not have an effect on his playing status. No matter how wacked she is. When her actions are effecting 100 other people, we certainly have a right to do that. No--you don't. As others have stated, you have a right to set up consequences for him missing practices and games, and enforcing those consequences. Keep in mind, it isn't HER actions that are the catalyst. It is the kids.
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Post by dytmook on Apr 18, 2013 21:34:59 GMT -6
We've had a few issues like this, but all you really can do is set expectations and let the kid know that he needs to keep his stuff together to avoid these situations. I've never known us to dimiss a kid for something like this, but we have withheld using them to the fullest because we didn't want to get caught with our pants down Thursday Evening.
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 19, 2013 6:47:49 GMT -6
Coach,
This is going to reiterate some of what has been said but from personal experience here is what we have tried. First, our HC firmly believes in erroring on the side of the kid, so if you feel he needs football there are some big decisions to be made. We had an instance like this last year and all you have influence on is the player. Like others have said, if you can pull the player and parent in and lay out the expectations that would be best even if it means back tracking. Let Mom know you empathize with her situation and are supportive of her decisions but you also have a team to worry about. Then here comes the big decision, if she pulls him again do you all want to remove him from the team for good or allow him to come back but reearn his position on the team (typically with not playing meaningful reps and being demoted on the depth chart, BUT still in the program with the opportunity to earn those roles back). That is a choice that is obviously over your head but whatever is decided needs to be laid out and followed. Our most gifted player did not touch the field on offense the first 4 games last year for a scenario like this and I believe that concept of "earning" playing time back helped set the tone for our team that we give extra chances but not without penalty, it helped in creating team support of our actions which is not something to lose sight of.
By no means have we figured it out here and it is a constant struggle in finding the balance between helping that one kid and sending a team first message to the rest of the team. It is something we revisit often and some on staff have very polar viewpoints behind closed doors, as anything else though it is a stance of solidarity outside of them. I don't have an easy answer for you as an assistant, its one of those things that if the HC is talking to you about give him your opinion then whatever he decides go with it..and talk bad about him to your wife!
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 19, 2013 6:58:33 GMT -6
When her actions are effecting 100 other people, we certainly have a right to do that. No--you don't. As others have stated, you have a right to set up consequences for him missing practices and games, and enforcing those consequences. Keep in mind, it isn't HER actions that are the catalyst. It is the kids. I should have been more clear in my original post, but her actions are just as much of the problem. The kid has told us flat out that she doesn't like the head coach and that is influencing her actions. It's not like the kid is being a total turd.
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 19, 2013 7:00:09 GMT -6
By no means have we figured it out here and it is a constant struggle in finding the balance between helping that one kid and sending a team first message to the rest of the team. I This is what the really, really good ones find a way to do. It's a tough balance to find.
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Post by Defcord on Apr 19, 2013 8:40:34 GMT -6
This sounds like there is just a lack of communication here. If my kid gets in trouble at home I am going to deal with it however I as a parent chose. As a parent I would make him go to football then come home and the consequences would stem from taking away social opportunities because I know the value of being in a sport.
I had a situation like this one time. The parent always wanted to take the kid out of practice or games. I believe in working with parents. THe first issue I had I was right in line with her. The second time I told her if he keeps getting in trouble he was going to miss more practices than I allow my other players too and that I would have to release him from the team if he missed. I respected her decision to do that though. She decided that she would not take him out anymore but she would take his car and cell phone, which I thought was a better solution.
In your situation I would talk to both mom and player. The player has to stop causing issues at home! Try to explain to the mom the importance of sports and the lessons learned. Ask her if there are other methods of discipline she can use so that he is being positively influenced by the coaches and by her. It's a team effort here.
I think the contract makes it seem as if you are working against her and blaming her not working with her and trying to help her son. I can see her point of view definitely. I also don't buy the fact that your decisions are coming based off of how it affects the other 100 kids. I keep going back to the 4.5-35in vertical, which to me shouldn't matter!
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 19, 2013 8:46:31 GMT -6
I think the contract makes it seem as if you are working against her and blaming her not working with her and trying to help her son. I can see her point of view definitely. I also don't buy the fact that your decisions are coming based off of how it affects the other 100 kids. I keep going back to the 4.5-35in vertical, which to me shouldn't matter! That's fine, I really don't care if you buy it. I have no motive to lie under an anonymous name to a bunch of people I'll most likely never meet. The kid is a testing freak, a starter last year, but it's not like he's a division one player. He struggles to pick up on things and disappeared on us a few times last year. We have all sorts of turds walking around this school that would be playing if we just submitted to the demands of better athletes. This kid would take a serious turn for the worst without the structure and discipline of our program. I appreciate your input, despite your incorrect summations about the motive of the contract.
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Post by brophy on Apr 19, 2013 9:01:14 GMT -6
I appreciate your input, despite your incorrect summations about the motive of the contract. this isn't personal (and there is no reason to receive it as such), but the hand-wringing over the contract ("WHY WON'T SHE DO WHAT WE TELL HER TO DO?!") is what leads folk to make that conclusion. The contract is a heavy-handed approach where someone is trying to flex their authority for obedience. Even if she liked you guys before, that would turn anyone off (let alone someone who doesn't like you to begin with). This is one of those pick your battles issue. What kind of relationship was established with momma before all this? How do y'all win her back? What behavior is she trying to influence on her kid by pulling him from sports? Y'all likely have a mutual interest (if he is getting in trouble and she's pulling him from sports, that would also serve the team's interest as well). Kid misses practice, he loses PT. period. Doesn't matter who you are. You quit on us for consecutive practices, you're out. Special cases are handled by team leadership.
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 19, 2013 9:11:49 GMT -6
I appreciate your input, despite your incorrect summations about the motive of the contract. this isn't personal (and there is no reason to receive it as such), but the hand-wringing over the contract ("WHY WON'T SHE DO WHAT WE TELL HER TO DO?!") is what leads folk to make that conclusion. The contract is a heavy-handed approach where someone is trying to flex their authority for obedience. Even if she liked you guys before, that would turn anyone off (let alone someone who doesn't like you to begin with). This is one of those pick your battles issue. What kind of relationship was established with momma before all this? How do y'all win her back? What behavior is she trying to influence on her kid by pulling him from sports? Y'all likely have a mutual interest (if he is getting in trouble and she's pulling him from sports, that would also serve the team's interest as well). Kid misses practice, he loses PT. period. Doesn't matter who you are. You quit on us for consecutive practices, you're out. Special cases are handled by team leadership. I'm not upset, but it is rather silly for people to make a judgment on the motive, when it's irrelevant to begin with. It doesn't matter WHY we want him on the team. The only point that is important here is how to handle a discontent parent of a kid that we do want to remain a part of the team. The relationship with her has never been great, obviously. But, we feel like she at least respects what we have done for her son. Again, I wasn't the coach that drafted the contract or came up with the idea. I was just trying to advise the head coach on the situation. Thanks for your help.
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Post by Defcord on Apr 19, 2013 9:58:14 GMT -6
I think the contract makes it seem as if you are working against her and blaming her not working with her and trying to help her son. I can see her point of view definitely. I also don't buy the fact that your decisions are coming based off of how it affects the other 100 kids. I keep going back to the 4.5-35in vertical, which to me shouldn't matter! That's fine, I really don't care if you buy it. I have no motive to lie under an anonymous name to a bunch of people I'll most likely never meet. The kid is a testing freak, a starter last year, but it's not like he's a division one player. He struggles to pick up on things and disappeared on us a few times last year. We have all sorts of turds walking around this school that would be playing if we just submitted to the demands of better athletes. This kid would take a serious turn for the worst without the structure and discipline of our program. I appreciate your input, despite your incorrect summations about the motive of the contract. I don't think you are lying...I shouldn't have worded the statement about not buying the statement that way. I was trying to say that it wasn't the sole motive. I think we all as coaches at times see potential and it influences our decisions. That was an unfair statement by me.
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Post by emptybackfield on Apr 19, 2013 11:09:45 GMT -6
That's fine, I really don't care if you buy it. I have no motive to lie under an anonymous name to a bunch of people I'll most likely never meet. The kid is a testing freak, a starter last year, but it's not like he's a division one player. He struggles to pick up on things and disappeared on us a few times last year. We have all sorts of turds walking around this school that would be playing if we just submitted to the demands of better athletes. This kid would take a serious turn for the worst without the structure and discipline of our program. I appreciate your input, despite your incorrect summations about the motive of the contract. I don't think you are lying...I shouldn't have worded the statement about not buying the statement that way. I was trying to say that it wasn't the sole motive. I think we all as coaches at times see potential and it influences our decisions. That was an unfair statement. It's no problem, thanks for clarifying. And I agree with you. Sometimes we have motives that are there, but just don't realize it. This is probably at work a little bit here, but the concept that is driving the bus here is the kid's well being, not ours.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 20, 2013 18:57:22 GMT -6
I was just trying to advise the head coach on the situation. To help advise future coaches (particularly young ones reading this forum) a quick summary: DO NOT attempt to tell mommy's and daddy's what they can do with their children. Ever. You have zero rights. DO explain to mommy's and daddy's how their actions would impact their child's standing on the team. You have every right to run your team as you see fit.
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