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Post by nltdiego on Feb 12, 2013 22:29:59 GMT -6
Coaches,
Part of our job is helping kids stay out of trouble and become better men after they leave our program. I'm in the process of changing the culture of our program and getting rid of the bad apples. Kids are starting to buy in and our gain in strength is remarkable. I had a student (Junior) come talk with me today at lunch. This kid is a notorious bad kid at school: smokes, gets in fights and was recently caught eating pot brownies art school. He has a close friend on the team who is one of our biggest challenges but is starting to turn it around. This kid informed me that he wants to attend our weight program and try out for football next year. He said he believes football will change him and help get his life together from the bad crowd at school.
Here is my question to you coaches. At what point do we let a kid like this try out? He currently got into a fight with one of our players during the summer who will be a captain on the team. Is this disrespectful to my Seniors (current Juniors) who have busted there a$$ for three years for the program? Is the program more important that helping this kid who is reaching out? Finally, at what point do we turn down kids to play knowing they will ruin the image of the program?
Thanks!
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GANNO
Sophomore Member
Posts: 207
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Post by GANNO on Feb 13, 2013 5:33:26 GMT -6
IMO - Giving an opportunity for a kid to grow and developer as a young man will have a greater impact on your team than keeping him away out of respect for your Seniors. Make your expectations known, be consistent, and be there to support, not catch, a kid when they fall. At some point, if the kid wants to make a life change, he will demonstrate it publicly through his action or inaction. Care and love will be modeled for your team. That kind of thing transforms the culture of a school and team. If it really bothers you, discuss your values with your Seniors. Just one person's opinion.
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Post by s73 on Feb 13, 2013 6:26:16 GMT -6
You're still in charge coach. Let him come out. If he isn't fulfilling expectations get rid of him. It's his responsibility to fit the team. Not the other way around.
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Post by coach2013 on Feb 13, 2013 6:32:59 GMT -6
I have never turned a kid away. I think you open yourself up to litigation. School sports have to be available to all (ever hear of discrimination?)
Just because a kid has a "rep" doesnt mean he wont toe the line - often many do during their sport seasons.
You may find that hes not a bad guy, just makes lots of bad decisions, nurture the goodness in all of the kids, treat them as THEY COULD BE not necessarily what they have been.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 13, 2013 7:03:06 GMT -6
As others have said. I don't think a kid should ever be turned away. If he screws up again and is causing problems then cut him loose.
I know at my school unless the kid did something really terrible we cannot just tell him you can't play football this upcoming season. If you turn a kid away it can cause big problems for you and the school. As one poster said, litigation problems.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747
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Post by coachweav88 on Feb 13, 2013 7:55:08 GMT -6
Coaches, He said he believes football will change him and help get his life together from the bad crowd at school. If this kid is sincere about this, then this is a huge opportunity. A lot of knuckleheads are perfectly content to stay knuckleheads. Can't do much with those kids until they have a desire to change. This kid sounds like he may already be heading in the right direction. |
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Post by tango on Feb 13, 2013 10:16:30 GMT -6
One of my favorites players of all time sounded just like this kid.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 13, 2013 10:26:22 GMT -6
I have never turned a kid away. I think you open yourself up to litigation. School sports have to be available to all (ever hear of discrimination?) Which protected class does he belong too? Just keep that in mind when you throw around the word "discrimination" regarding legal issues. Being a bad-a$$, being a rule breaker, being a student who has been at school and never gone out before....none are protected classes. Not saying I would turn the kid away. I am just clarifying things on the "litigation/discrimination" front. And you absolutely could run into issues, but those would be with the supervisors/administrators...not legal ones. Sorry about the little tangent there, just a pet peeve of mine. I work at a k-5 elementary school and hear student after student use the word "racist" interchangeable with discriminate against (ie "you are racist against young people  ) or hear student after student using the word "discrimination" to mean "not getting whatever you want" |
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Post by coachjrob on Feb 13, 2013 10:38:15 GMT -6
I was just like this kid if not worse.Give him a shot football change my life it can do the same for this young man
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Post by blb on Feb 13, 2013 10:43:37 GMT -6
Football isn't the Chess Club. You can't win with all milk drinkers, need a few whiskey drinkers.
Or as my college coach said, some "Phuckers, fighters, and wild horse riders."
We don't have "try outs." So long as kid is eligible and follows training-practice rules, he can be on team.
But only he can "save" himself.
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Post by PSS on Feb 13, 2013 10:44:47 GMT -6
When we have a player that is on his last leg in the program we put them on a contract. Parents have to sign it. It covers things such as behavior in school, grades, attendance at school and practice, etc. This is their last chance in the program. Once they break the contract they are removed from the program.
Athletics is not a right. It is a privilege. You can't save them all.
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Post by tango on Feb 13, 2013 10:47:23 GMT -6
I walked away laughing the first three times the kid came and asked me if he could play. The 4th time I told him what I expected and he said I need something to keep me out of F- ing trouble. I chewed him out on the spot for cussing. The next day he was cussing in the hall and saw me and the next word was dang instead of the normal. As I walked by I told him good job and everyone just cracked up. He became the starting 1 tech. at 160 lbs. on a team that was 11-1. Never missed a workout and became a leader. He was killed in a car wreck two years after he graduated and the entire school was devastated. He changed my thought process about coaching.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 13, 2013 11:05:04 GMT -6
Let him play. If he's a turd, you flush him. If not then good for him for being serious about playing. Don't beat yourself up about saving 'em all. Just remember Jesus only got 11 out of 12. Ya can't save 'em all.
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Post by eaglemountie on Feb 13, 2013 11:30:33 GMT -6
I think we are seeing a bigger problem from top to bottom and that is the first sentence you wrote. It's not our job to keep kids out of trouble, it's to arm them with the characteristics and qualities so they themselves can stay out of trouble. Fix the real problem and do always give kids a way out. They will learn more in the long run from a hard lesson than the easy way out.
Sorry for the off-topic and mini-rant.
And to answer the question, give him the same shot you would anyone else but also hold him as accountable as you would anyone else. He may surprise you.
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Post by coach2013 on Feb 13, 2013 11:46:23 GMT -6
Someone once told me that football coaches were becoming social workers, same guy also told me "If we wanted them all saved, wed have hired Mother Theresa, not a football coach" - go figure.
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Post by spartan on Feb 13, 2013 12:32:45 GMT -6
IMHO you should give everyone a chance. Tell him you don't care about history and lay out your expectations. have him sign a contract and hold him too it. Make the contract SMART. and realize he may not live up to all of it. Then readjust and penalize. You may just change someones life.
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Post by powerfootball71 on Feb 13, 2013 13:19:20 GMT -6
I'm with blb on this I love these type of kids I was one. If you can control them. I mean did he win the fight? Half kidding but honestly when I get to I new school one of the first things I ask the kids at the school is who's the kid on campus no one wants to fight. If he's not playing football I will talk to him and find out why.
Being a dl or ol coach I've had good success taking these kids on might have something to do with not coming from the same postion of authority as the hc. I kind of take the gene hackmen in Hoosiers approach I don't care if you play or not but I think you will have fun and will be successful.If you don't toe the line your done but if you do you basically its the only time in your life you can get in a street fight ever day and not go to jail.
Had a senior who always got kicked off the team. 6'3 295 legit 400 bench 500 squat half sleeves on both arms lived with grandma dad was in prison mom was in rehab. Hc said he will never come out asked if I could take a shoot at him. Gave him my spiel and was a 1st team ng graduated went d3 and is now a cop. Have at least 3 more stories like this. Give him a shoot handel it right and you might have a gem.
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Post by Coach Vint on Feb 13, 2013 14:04:39 GMT -6
Let him play. If he's a turd, you flush him. If not then good for him for being serious about playing. Don't beat yourself up about saving 'em all. Just remember Jesus only got 11 out of 12. Ya can't save 'em all. Also remember that Jesus picked men that had flaws. To model redemption you need men who have been redeemed. |
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Post by coachfd on Feb 13, 2013 14:09:34 GMT -6
Think about this, Coach...
If YOU don't help him turn his life around... then who else will?
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Post by fballcoachg on Feb 13, 2013 16:55:38 GMT -6
Are you kicking your senior captain to be off the team? He got in a fight too.
Let him work with you but be upfront about the expectations, if he can't follow them than he can't play. They are teenagers, some screw up, maybe you can be a positive role model for him, maybe you can't, won't know until you try and if you lay down the expectations everyone else has to follow than it's out of your hands.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 13, 2013 17:48:57 GMT -6
Let him play. If he's a turd, you flush him. If not then good for him for being serious about playing. Don't beat yourself up about saving 'em all. Just remember Jesus only got 11 out of 12. Ya can't save 'em all. Also remember that Jesus picked men that had flaws. To model redemption you need men who have been redeemed. Never said don't let him play. Trust me I am all for it, just trying to point out that it always doesn't work out. As many great success stories that guys have told here I am sure there are quite a few spectacular failures to go along with them. But you never know untill you let the kid play. |
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Post by cocoach on Feb 13, 2013 19:15:44 GMT -6
Bring him in. Coach him up on and off the field. Be the example, and point to kids on the team that are a good example to follow.
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Post by fballcoachg on Feb 14, 2013 7:19:20 GMT -6
You never know when your class or football might be the only thing a kid has that's positive in their life. Not to be melodramatic but I agree completely, some of these kids want to come to football so they don't have to go home. |
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Post by blb on Feb 14, 2013 7:19:29 GMT -6
If you believe in the values of HS Football (besides blocking and tackling) how can you in good conscience turn a kid away before he attends one practice?
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Post by airman on Feb 16, 2013 14:50:53 GMT -6
rules for saving trouble kids.
Rule #1 They can only be saved if they want to be saved.
Rule #2 When trying to save them reread rule #1.
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Post by amthd45 on Feb 16, 2013 15:20:19 GMT -6
Ever start the year , maybe at a new school, and you get your class roster and another teacher says "oh my i see you have Johnny X in your class, he is an awful kid, etc..." Well 90% of the time I never have problems with the kid, the other teacher did. And sometimes, as I am dealing with right now currently, you have a kid that is a turd to you, but not to other teachers.
Give the kid a chance, as it seems to be the concensus on the boar.
I was just thinking today about the whole reason i got into coaching/teaching. Was it to win games? Somewhat...Was it because i am so obsessed with football i cannot live without it, maybe....but really and truly? It is because I feel I can use football as a ministry tool to reach kids and to help prepare them for life! WIll I save EVERY kid in my program? No, some will fall by the wayside, but that comes with the territory. Even some kids that I have not seen eye to eye with or whom were kicked off the team, I have seen/spoken to years later and they were thankful for the lessons they did learn while apart of the program.
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Post by amthd45 on Feb 16, 2013 15:30:11 GMT -6
Ever start the year , maybe at a new school, and you get your class roster and another teacher says "oh my i see you have Johnny X in your class, he is an awful kid, etc..." Well 90% of the time I never have problems with the kid, the other teacher did. And sometimes, as I am dealing with right now currently, you have a kid that is a turd to you, but not to other teachers.
Give the kid a chance, as it seems to be the concensus on the boar.
I was just thinking today about the whole reason i got into coaching/teaching. Was it to win games? Somewhat...Was it because i am so obsessed with football i cannot live without it, maybe....but really and truly? It is because I feel I can use football as a ministry tool to reach kids and to help prepare them for life! WIll I save EVERY kid in my program? No, some will fall by the wayside, but that comes with the territory. Even some kids that I have not seen eye to eye with or whom were kicked off the team, I have seen/spoken to years later and they were thankful for the lessons they did learn while apart of the program.
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Post by CS on Feb 17, 2013 12:38:25 GMT -6
There are stories on both sides. I have 2 kids on the team right now who were just like that. Now those kids are 2 of the most focused and hard working kids on the team and they push others to be better.
On the flip side we have givin chances to kids that showed everyone they were trouble and we let them go. Let the kid come out and hold him accountable just like any other kid on your team. I really don't even understand the question because all that other mess doesn't matter until he is on YOUR team. Let him have a clean slate and treat him how you would treat everyone else.
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Coach H
Sophomore Member
Posts: 146
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Post by Coach H on Feb 20, 2013 10:57:36 GMT -6
Coaches,
This is a great post. I had this problem a year ago. Sometimes the best lesson we learn in life are the ones that hurt the most. Give the kid a fresh start and then go from there. It sounds like he wants to be apart of someting special.
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Post by pirate1590 on Feb 22, 2013 10:37:48 GMT -6
What I would do is sit the kid down and tell him point blank, if you truly want to change than absolutely you can be on this team. But tell him you expect the same out of him as all the players, he goes to workouts, practices and is a good locker room guy. Dont give him any slack, if he gets caught with weed/drinking he is GONE. Let him know hes on a one strike policy. It wont hurt, give the kid a shot.
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) or hear student after student using the word "discrimination" to mean "not getting whatever you want" 
