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Post by gdn56 on Dec 12, 2012 8:00:09 GMT -6
I've made a great mistake this morning. I read espn's front page where an article presents the debate about weather the "spread" could work in the NFL (if Chip Kelly were to take a job in the league). I then made a greater mistake by reading the comments section. The people who comment on stories like that and who comment on stories about coaching changes as if they have some great insight about what it takes to be successful in leading a college football program, have just driven me mad this year. I know we have always worked in a business that is over-scrutinized by people who really have very little clue as to what is actually going on, but am I the only one who believes its getting worse? These people really believe they know what they are talking about. Is it just Madden syndrome? Or has it always been this way but only recently have people had the medium to express their "expert opinions"?
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Dec 12, 2012 8:27:26 GMT -6
It has alot to do with video games, fantasy football ("I can mange a team"), over analysis of games on TV by people who usually just spit out cliches and coach speak.
Information is much easier to come by making a higher number of people "know just enough to be dangerous"
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Post by CS on Dec 12, 2012 8:27:26 GMT -6
I recently purchased a book about the nfl for .99 called game plan. I don't recommend it. But it states that kids who play madden all the time are better game strategist than nfl coaches.
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Post by Coach.A on Dec 12, 2012 16:27:08 GMT -6
Anybody can draw up a playbook or get one from the internet (or from Madden). There's as big difference between knowing a scheme and being able to coach a scheme. There's lots of X's & O's guys out there, but very few people know how to teach fundamentals and understand how those fundamentals relate to scheme.
As for the comments posted on message boards and beneath articles....if it wasn't for internet anonymity, most of those posts being critical of others wouldn't get posted.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Dec 12, 2012 17:28:16 GMT -6
I only read the comments for laughs
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2012 6:33:39 GMT -6
Or has it always been this way but only recently have people had the medium to express their "expert opinions"? I would lean more to this answer. Fairly certain all of the fans in the stands have known more than coaches for a LONG time... it's only now that they have a way to publicly share their "genius".
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Post by brophy on Dec 13, 2012 6:45:48 GMT -6
1) know what you're getting when you read that {censored} 2) be mature enough to avoid it 2) be disciplined enough to ignore it
I blame "Coach Rudy, Big 10 Alumni"
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Post by pirates2012 on Dec 13, 2012 6:58:56 GMT -6
Or has it always been this way but only recently have people had the medium to express their "expert opinions"? I would lean more to this answer. Fairly certain all of the fans in the stands have known more than coaches for a LONG time... it's only now that they have a way to publicly share their "genius". this. its been going on for a long time. a very select few fans probably do understand whats going on , etc, but for most of them, they are Madden and internet legends in their own minds or their kids are All-Americans only be held back by the idiot coach.
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Post by brophy on Dec 13, 2012 8:05:59 GMT -6
A portion of THIS type of stuff is a product of unnatural framing. Its one thing thing (natural) to say, "aw man....that fumble by the running back really lost the game"its another thing to say, " clearly giving the football to the running back was a DUMB decision by the coach. Anyone can see how stupid that was. Besides this is the worst running back in the game. period!"We've seen more of the latter in since ESPN and this has been dictating how we all see sports. They aren't doing it because it they are 'reporting' anything. They have done it because it gets them ratings and ad revenue. This is true of most everything on TV. it is what it is, manI am really looking forward to sports fan bloggers to take advantage of the NFL O/D/K film and provide some haphazard breakdowns. I haven't seen any yet (or any attempts) - lemme know if you can find any.
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Post by coachbuck on Dec 13, 2012 8:23:21 GMT -6
A bit off topic but what brophy says. I almost cant watch espn anymore. I cant sit thru another pundit ex nfl player acting like he knows more than the coach who has spent countless hours watching film. It gets very irritating listening to these guys devalue coaches and there game plan. One big example was during the draft. Many pundits where killing shanahan for drafting 2 qbs. Creating a qb controversy, on an on about how dumb he was. Doesnt look so dumb now...does he. Ofcourse you wont here these pundits apologize. They just move onto there next target. Sorry for the rant.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 11:22:46 GMT -6
I was done with ESPN's NFL coverage three or four years ago when Tom Jackson tried to claim that he picked the Steelers to lose only to give them motivation to prove him wrong. He honestly tried to claim some credit for their victory after the fact. I still watch ESPN; I just don't watch any of their Sunday morning or evening NFL coverage.
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Post by coachdubyah on Dec 13, 2012 11:48:06 GMT -6
Im just pissed that everything is the Wildcat.
Sincerely, A Single Wing Coach.
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Post by mholst40 on Dec 13, 2012 11:58:31 GMT -6
I think the "problem" lies in the society we live in where we have access to nearly as much "information" as we want. People spout their opinions like they are facts and the general public takes it at face value.
As coaches, we understand everything that goes into a single decision. Fans only know what worked and what didn't. They base their opinion on success. But, fans aren't the only ones who do this type of thing. Gene Chizik won a nat't title two years ago, now he's looking for a job and his predecessor is his former OC? Doesn't make sense to me, but we are now a country that wants instant gratification everywhere we turn.
I won't listen to much pre-game stuff because most of it is nonsense, just like a half-time "interview". The only real pre-game show I will watch is College GameDay because I like the experience of it and I think it's entertaining, even if I don't always agree.
In the end, the large percentage of people that make football the most popular game in this country are just fans. They wouldn't know how to run a practice or program and they have a very limited viewpoint that is defined by success. I go into every fan or announcer situation knowing that people like to complain and point out faults. th
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Post by RENO6 on Dec 13, 2012 12:03:15 GMT -6
People are more educated about football than they have ever been whether it's through video games or Gruden's ability to explain coaching and scheme.
As a result, I think they might think they know more than they really do.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 13, 2012 12:31:06 GMT -6
A bit off topic but what brophy says. I almost cant watch espn anymore. I cant sit thru another pundit ex nfl player acting like he knows more than the coach who has spent countless hours watching film. One of the worst is the show Audibles. Trent Dilfer, Keyshawn Johnson, Steve Young, and Herm Edwards (the only coach of the bunch) sit around like arm chair QBs (ironically two of them were QBs) and talk. Naturally, there is so much they talk about that revolves around decisions made by the coaching staffs in the league and they're just not qualified. They played, they didn't coach in that league. The insight out of Herm is a breath of fresh air most of the time because he gives the perspective of a coach and it's usually so contrary to what the rest of them say.
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Post by gdn56 on Dec 13, 2012 13:27:12 GMT -6
I just feel like I have witnessed a shift in the way the media approaches football. I can remember when commentators announced what was happening in the game. Now you hear Gary Danielson openly questioning Nick Saban's wisdom in calling a timeout or going for two, etc... Whatever happened to "Alabama takes a timeout, lets pause for a brief commercial"??
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Post by 33coach on Dec 13, 2012 14:56:18 GMT -6
A bit off topic but what brophy says. I almost cant watch espn anymore. I cant sit thru another pundit ex nfl player acting like he knows more than the coach who has spent countless hours watching film. One of the worst is the show Audibles. Trent Dilfer, Keyshawn Johnson, Steve Young, and Herm Edwards (the only coach of the bunch) sit around like arm chair QBs (ironically two of them were QBs) and talk. Naturally, there is so much they talk about that revolves around decisions made by the coaching staffs in the league and they're just not qualified. They played, they didn't coach in that league. The insight out of Herm is a breath of fresh air most of the time because he gives the perspective of a coach and it's usually so contrary to what the rest of them say. Honestly this kind of stuff bothers me. Anyone who has coached...shouldnt enjoy or make a career out of questioning other coaches...thats just not ok in my eyes. But then again..i just have a hard time critising coaches because i know what its like to be on the field and in the booth... Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards
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Post by davishfc on Dec 13, 2012 15:01:55 GMT -6
I just feel like I have witnessed a shift in the way the media approaches football. I can remember when commentators announced what was happening in the game. Now you hear Gary Danielson openly questioning Nick Saban's wisdom in calling a timeout or going for two, etc... Whatever happened to "Alabama takes a timeout, lets pause for a brief commercial"?? Yeah I know. He's actually one of the worst. And he's been around for a while so it's not even a generational issue. Like the new up and coming announcers are only ones that are doing it. No, there seems to have been a shift where these people that haven't even played the game let alone coached it are becoming so relentlessly critical of the coaches who get millions of dollars to the job. They're the best at what they do...shut up and let them do it. How many national championships have the pundits or critics won? Bo Schembechler said it best regarding critics. "If you're winning, you don't need 'em. If you're losing, they can't help you." Somewhere along the line, viewing enough football, playing enough football video games, and managing a few seasons of fantasy football have created an environment where disillusioned people can pass judgments in a safe environment because their decisions or opinions have absolutely no impact on the game. How many of these people are making the decisions or formulating opinions before hand? None. These people always seem to be forthcoming with their impressions after the fact. Anybody can do that. Hindsight will always be 20/20 so I guess as long as that's the case these dumba$$es will continue to be around.
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Post by 42falcon on Dec 13, 2012 15:31:57 GMT -6
It also comes down to entertainment. The bottom line is that ESPN, TSN here in Canada, NFL Network all of these things are entertainment broadcasters. 95% of the population that watches football games on TV are not watching it the same way some of us are. So when the talking heads on TV say something like: -that was a terrible call -that coach just lost them the game
It is about entertaining the masses. You stick some guy up their Micheal Irvin for example who has street cred with the viewer and he can say just about anything and it is gospel. Yet you could stick a HS coach with 30+ years of coaching experience up there and he says something right he will get ripped to shreds, because what does he know.
Sometimes one of the nicest ways to enjoy a game is to hit the mute button and just kick back and relax.
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Post by brophy on Dec 13, 2012 15:35:43 GMT -6
^^once you realize this its easier to ignore because you understand it is willful nonsense
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Post by coachks on Dec 13, 2012 15:48:51 GMT -6
I recently purchased a book about the nfl for .99 called game plan. I don't recommend it. But it states that kids who play madden all the time are better game strategist than nfl coaches. That isn't really what the book said. In fact the book did not say anything different that what can be read all over this board, on Smartfootball and in a few other places about how many coaches mis-manage the end of the game (spiking the ball ect...). It also went into punts being used too often and coaches going for FGs to frequently. You can disagree with that all you want, but it is an issue debated among football coaches as well and have serious academic backing. The Madden portion simply referred to the advantage that video game players have in recreating specific scenarios absurd amount of times. More specifically, running the 2 minute drill and handling goal line situations. It was not a great book; it's quasi-academic without sourcing enough and it has some circular logic. It had some interesting chapters and made some interesting arguments, even though there were some flaws. I thought it was well worth the dollar.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 13, 2012 17:00:24 GMT -6
We live in a culture that profits through controversy. No one would watch ESPN if the talking heads didn't stir up something by 'analyzing' everything and question coaching decisions. It's sad but true.
There's a reason I don't watch pre or post game shows and why I also have the TV muted when watching games.
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 13, 2012 18:59:11 GMT -6
I recently purchased a book about the nfl for .99 called game plan. I don't recommend it. But it states that kids who play madden all the time are better game strategist than nfl coaches. That isn't really what the book said. In fact the book did not say anything different that what can be read all over this board, on Smartfootball and in a few other places about how many coaches mis-manage the end of the game (spiking the ball ect...). It also went into punts being used too often and coaches going for FGs to frequently. You can disagree with that all you want, but it is an issue debated among football coaches as well and have serious academic backing. The Madden portion simply referred to the advantage that video game players have in recreating specific scenarios absurd amount of times. More specifically, running the 2 minute drill and handling goal line situations. It was not a great book; it's quasi-academic without sourcing enough and it has some circular logic. It had some interesting chapters and made some interesting arguments, even though there were some flaws. I thought it was well worth the dollar. You can indeed recreate scenarios to your heart's content, but the simulation is not an accurate one vis-a-vis "real" football, so there's that to consider.
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Post by vandals14 on Dec 13, 2012 20:14:09 GMT -6
I've made a great mistake this morning. I read espn's front page where an article presents the debate about weather the "spread" could work in the NFL (if Chip Kelly were to take a job in the league). I then made a greater mistake by reading the comments section. The people who comment on stories like that and who comment on stories about coaching changes as if they have some great insight about what it takes to be successful in leading a college football program, have just driven me mad this year. I know we have always worked in a business that is over-scrutinized by people who really have very little clue as to what is actually going on, but am I the only one who believes its getting worse? These people really believe they know what they are talking about. Is it just Madden syndrome? Or has it always been this way but only recently have people had the medium to express their "expert opinions"? Read the same article and thought the exact same thing! Tons of people with no clue who think there is no way "the spread" will work in the NFL.
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Post by tothehouse on Dec 13, 2012 22:50:27 GMT -6
Follow me @coachinggripes on Twitter. This kind of stuff is fodder for me. Joe Buck is the worst imo. I'd rather just watch the game with the radio announcers. They can paint the picture better for me.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2012 22:54:02 GMT -6
Is the irony lost here that so many people are complaining about the "announcers or pundits" not knowing what the coach's job truly are.... while not actually knowing what the announcers/pundits jobs are?
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Post by airman on Dec 13, 2012 23:09:04 GMT -6
I just had a discussion the other day with a 25 yr old on a message board. It was about the U of WI pass defense.
The 25 yr old kid was ragging on Wisconsins pass defense. how the dbs play off the receiver or back out off the rec at the last minute and are willing to let the other complete the pass then tackle the receiver.
I explained how WI plays a lot of quarters coverage. I put up some information I got from the WI staff on quarters. etc. I also explained how when WI goes to an under front they bring the safety down to create an 8 man front look and how they play cover 3 zone behind it.
Kid says, you are a know it all and i still do not like how the badgers play defense. I ask what he would do. He says play straight man like on madden.
I said " there is no rest button in the world outside your mothers basement "
He did not like that comment too much.
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Post by downdownkick on Dec 14, 2012 2:46:39 GMT -6
Hey guys
I took the year off from coaching to go to grad school, so I got to travel around and watch a lot of games from the stands. And I'll tell you (as I'm sure you know) you get the exact same attitude from the HS crowd as you do on the message boards. Folks want to question every play call or personnel decision as if they've been at practice all week. It takes restraint not to turn around and say "what the hell do you know?" ("Why are we running the ball so much? Its not working!" - watching a Veer team in the 1st quarter)
I don't even know if its Madden either; I hear dads and grandmas alike calling coaches idiots. It might be the NFL influence though, everybody's answer is always "get more pressure! Why don't they get more pressure?" Even in the playoffs where teams are 12-0, its the same story. I think people feel smarter by calling other people dumb and its somehow socially acceptable when you're watching sports.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Dec 14, 2012 5:13:38 GMT -6
Here's my question and maybe it's a new topic but can you un-Madden an assistant coach? I've spent 2 yrs on a guy and have made a small dent but he's still an NCAA/Madden guru. Can't convince him what clinics could do for him
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Post by blb on Dec 14, 2012 7:32:05 GMT -6
So long as he's loyal, good with kids-coaching during practice, puts in the time you can ignore him or "Just say No" when he starts talking Xs and Os.
Otherwise, after two years - Trump him.
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