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Post by airman on Oct 14, 2012 1:49:17 GMT -6
I have been blessed to only be on one team that has experienced major blowouts. It is no fun.
I have also been accused of running up the score because i believe in throwing the ball.
One game were were up 77-7, the second and third teams had scored so I ordered us to punt the football back to the other team on 1st down. I was told by the other coach that was more disrespectful than scoring more tds.
I guess I never thought about it that way. I am weird with the punt however. IN down pours I will often punt the ball back to the other team. eventually they will make a mistake.
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jlt
Junior Member
Posts: 313
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Post by jlt on Oct 15, 2012 6:08:20 GMT -6
What about college level which is what we are talking here.
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Post by tigercoach11 on Oct 15, 2012 7:06:21 GMT -6
Ill try and keep this short but let me give you a situation; what would you do?
Last Friday we traveled 4 hours to a school that is one class larger than us to play. 2 minutes into the 1st qtr. we have our first of 3 30 minute lightning delays (we are already up 14-0). An hour and half later we resume. Towards the end of the second we are already up 47-0 and I have my young guys in there for about half of the second quarter. Our state rules say if a team is up 50 points at half then the game is called. We pick off a pass and take it to the house. Now score is 53-0 with 2 minutes left. I told my QB to take a knee on the EP (feeling like there was no need for the extra point).
Now after that is what bothers me. I have all my two's and threes in. The team we are playing is a power run team, like us. I figure he is going to put in his young guys, and let them run their base O until time runs out. Not only does he bring his one's out, now he is ace back gun and chucking it. They get down to the 15 and I put ones back in (one bc I dont want to go any further with this after half, and two they were taking cheap shots at my young ones). But they still score. Then HE GOES FOR 2! Now we have to come back after half (Lightning called it anyways).
I am OK with teams playing hard til the end, and getting reps to young guys with base stuff. I would have done that too. But after a 4 hour trip then a hour and half delay we were ready to get out of there. What do you guys think?
keeping it short=failed...sorry
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 15, 2012 8:21:22 GMT -6
Then again, your players would have been pissed if they'd ridden the bus for four hours and only got to play half a game, blowout or not.
At The Zoo things were actually pretty civilized. In the fall league we were predictably awful, and in the spring league we played schools with 20% of our enrollment and whose athletes we'd already poached, so we didn't play a ton of close games, and we'd often make a gentleman's agreement at halftime.
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Post by tigercoach11 on Oct 15, 2012 8:26:39 GMT -6
We did ride the bus, we were the away team
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Post by grouchy71 on Oct 15, 2012 19:38:57 GMT -6
Along these same lines this year we were playing one of the best teams on our schedule. We are down 32-14 with about 10 minutes left in the 4th, so they sub on defense, first play I ran trap and it went 78 yds. They go a quick 3 and out because they subbed on offense also. We ran trap again and it houses from 60. Well now the score is 32-27 with about 5 minutes left. I understood what he was doing but now the score is within one TD, and my philosophy is changing back. They put their varsity offense back in but now they were out of rythm and they go 3 and out, punt, we get the ball back with about 2 and change left, I run trap and it hits for about 30 - their varsity kids were fast enough/smart enough to take good angles and catch our RB otherwise they would have been in trouble. We end up getting inside their 25 with under a minute left and we threw a pick 6, which was open over the middle but it went up off the receivers hands and they picked it for the 39-27 final. After the game their coach was out of breath and I told him - don't worry about being sportsmanlike too much coach that can cost you, you guys just do what you do, you schedule JV games for a reason. I love that you pull the coach aside and mention this to him after the game. I fully support the holding the score down, subbing in 2s and 3s and displaying good sportsmanship. I've been fortunate enough to be in this position a fair amount and have always done things this way, however I have also been damn close to blowing a game similar to the manner you describe. It was my fault and my problem, but the reality was that at the time all I could think about was trying to display good sportsmanship, fretting about the score, trying not to annoy anyone, preventing my AD from having to talk to me, etc etc etc. We all know some coaches who will use any excuse to whine and complain after the game if, god forbid, the other team scores a 50th point, and it does feel like up in these parts (New England) it's gone so far in that direction that someone will lose a game due to this one day. Wish we had more coaches like DCOhio out here... Grouch
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Post by coachhartley on Oct 18, 2012 4:31:07 GMT -6
Everyone has been saying it's wrong to rep your trick plays when you're up but I think it's the best chance to practice some of your trick plays.
I'm mainly thinking special teams, a fake punt or a fake field goal ran in a game if far more useful than running it in practice. Use the rest of the game as a chance to test things you don't usually get to run in a game. You don't know when you will need them.
I always have to put the good of my program first, I won't take the p1ss with the play calling but I will run the plays that helps my team the best.
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Post by olcoach53 on Oct 18, 2012 7:39:49 GMT -6
I got into a problem with my A.D. a few years ago with this situation. With the running clock rule in IHSA I will score any way I can until I get the clock rolling (unless it is late in the 4th quarter). We were winning a JV game 34-0 at the start of the second half and I ran a halfback pass to get 40 and get the clock rolling. After that I did not call one passing play and my A.D. chewed my butt for it and said it wasn't necessary. I argued and said that I was going to do what I needed to do to get the running clock and that was my decision. He could have chewed me for the final score since we ended up scoring 19 more points and winning 59-0.
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Post by spreadopt on Oct 18, 2012 8:06:13 GMT -6
I have never had an issue with teams running up the score as long as they were subbing in depth players. I will never tell a coach not to run thier offense. I think there is a line that shouldn't be crossed with regards to throwing the ball late, but if that is your offense so be it.
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Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2012 8:48:09 GMT -6
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Post by joelee on Oct 18, 2012 8:48:25 GMT -6
Score a 1000 in the first half if you can. Bring the starters back out after half-time to stay in the routine. Get a running clock going if you can. Then its classy to begin subbing some people out. Its classy, it jets backups playing time and it keeps a starter from possible injury. I believe you should pass much less if you can but saying passes are totally taboo is ridiculous. Some coaches who are behind will leave all starters in the game and continue to load the box and or blitz. I'm not running 3 iso plays and punting. Sorry. It takes some class from the losing coach as well. I'm not putting in J.V. Kids to get manhandled by someone else's varsity all at once. It is not the job of the losing team to tell the winners what they should be doing. I'll coach my team and you coach yours.
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Post by fantom on Oct 18, 2012 9:08:37 GMT -6
Here are things that I've seen over the years that have bothered me:
1. Keeping starters in and chucking it deep in an obvious attempt to score as many points as possible. Saw a first-year team with no seniors get beaten that way 84-0.
2. Calling time-outs to tack on an extra score.
3. Doing things that make a mockery of the game (stuff that makes it look like they're toying with the opponent): A. Letting linemen carry the ball. B. Sending in your scout team to run the opponents' own offense against them.
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Post by usireland on Oct 18, 2012 9:53:10 GMT -6
Opinions on this, would you consider this running up the score.
2nd String Offensive line 2nd String QB 1st String RB (2 Rb´s they had were splitting carries so it was 1a and 1b rather than 1st and 2nd) 2nd String TE 2nd String H-Back 3rd String WR´s
Leading in the 4th Quarter by Double digits get the ball back at their own 10yard line with 2.15 left.
They let the 2nd String QB lead a 2 minute drill where he called all time outs etc as usual and tried to score a TD.
Running up the score or just gaining experience for inexperienced players?
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Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2012 10:00:52 GMT -6
Personally I would rather see a 'run rule' instead of a running clock. Instead of having all the drama that goes with a blow out and causes for hard feelings, just end the game after one team is up 40 points in the second half.
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Post by fantom on Oct 18, 2012 10:07:11 GMT -6
Opinions on this, would you consider this running up the score. 2nd String Offensive line 2nd String QB 1st String RB (2 Rb´s they had were splitting carries so it was 1a and 1b rather than 1st and 2nd) 2nd String TE 2nd String H-Back 3rd String WR´s Leading in the 4th Quarter by Double digits get the ball back at their own 10yard line with 2.15 left. They let the 2nd String QB lead a 2 minute drill where he called all time outs etc as usual and tried to score a TD. Running up the score or just gaining experience for inexperienced players? Wouldn't bother me. They don't have a 3rd RB, though?
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Post by olcoach53 on Oct 18, 2012 10:09:30 GMT -6
If you are up big and the team that is losing does that I would have no problem with just running their offense and trying to score some points and gain experience. We have had that happen to us a few times and I know we have done that a few times too.
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Post by fantom on Oct 18, 2012 10:46:32 GMT -6
Opinions on this, would you consider this running up the score. 2nd String Offensive line 2nd String QB 1st String RB (2 Rb´s they had were splitting carries so it was 1a and 1b rather than 1st and 2nd) 2nd String TE 2nd String H-Back 3rd String WR´s Leading in the 4th Quarter by Double digits get the ball back at their own 10yard line with 2.15 left. They let the 2nd String QB lead a 2 minute drill where he called all time outs etc as usual and tried to score a TD. Running up the score or just gaining experience for inexperienced players? Another thought: What level is this and what do you mean by a double-digit lead? In HS football with a two TD or less lead not only wouldn't I have my seconds in but I certainly wouldn't be throwing the ball from my own 10.
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Post by CS on Oct 18, 2012 10:58:12 GMT -6
A lot of the comments on here are bs! Running trick plays when your dominating a game is bullchit! Passing deep no matter what they do shows a lack of class! I don't care if you have the 2s in or 3s it classless! Then your beating down a team with your scrubs! Do you think that makes them feel any better? And if they keep their 1s in its probably just to try and keep the score from getting anymore out of hand. If they are loading the box throw some quick passes to the flats and get out of bounds. Send a message in a sportsmanlike way rather than another td. You can do what you want but don't put some perfume on a turd and call it a flower
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Post by fantom on Oct 18, 2012 11:12:36 GMT -6
A lot of the comments on here are bs! Running trick plays when your dominating a game is bullchit! Passing deep no matter what they do shows a lack of class! I don't care if you have the 2s in or 3s it classless! Then your beating down a team with your scrubs! Do you think that makes them feel any better? And if they keep their 1s in its probably just to try and keep the score from getting anymore out of hand. If they are loading the box throw some quick passes to the flats and get out of bounds. Send a message in a sportsmanlike way rather than another td. You can do what you want but don't put some perfume on a turd and call it a flower I'll just say it: get better. If getting scored on by the other guy's 2nd team bothers you, get better. If you want to put your whole 1st team defense between the tackles and get mad because we go outside, get better. We'll do things to keep from embarrassing you but our responsibility is to our team and our kids.
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Post by CS on Oct 18, 2012 11:26:51 GMT -6
A lot of the comments on here are bs! Running trick plays when your dominating a game is bullchit! Passing deep no matter what they do shows a lack of class! I don't care if you have the 2s in or 3s it classless! Then your beating down a team with your scrubs! Do you think that makes them feel any better? And if they keep their 1s in its probably just to try and keep the score from getting anymore out of hand. If they are loading the box throw some quick passes to the flats and get out of bounds. Send a message in a sportsmanlike way rather than another td. You can do what you want but don't put some perfume on a turd and call it a flower I'll just say it: get better. If getting scored on by the other guy's 2nd team bothers you, get better. If you want to put your whole 1st team defense between the tackles and get mad because we go outside, get better. We'll do things to keep from embarrassing you but our responsibility is to our team and our kids. Running around end isn't the issue. If I'm stupid enough to load the box and allow that run then I'm asking for it. My issue is with the guys who say "oh I want to practice my trick plays" or "my second string needs to work on their deep passing game" that horse manure! They can practice against YOUR 1s. They are obviously better than the other teams ones so why not let them get better at beating the best? It's just a cop out to make them feel better about running the score up.
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Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2012 11:33:42 GMT -6
Coaches will never agree on what is acceptable. That is why I would love to see a run rule! Over 40 point lead game ends.
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Post by blb on Oct 18, 2012 11:42:54 GMT -6
I'm not big fan of Mercy Rule. Been on both sides of it.
Running clock deprives back-ups of plays.
Coaches' egos want to get off field when getting blown out.
I'd rather play normal time and let 2s and 3s get game time regardless of score.
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Post by John Knight on Oct 18, 2012 11:54:10 GMT -6
Our 2s play on Sat or Monday, and we have no 3s
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Post by olcoach53 on Oct 18, 2012 12:03:39 GMT -6
I will say this because I brought up the trick play thing. Halfback pass that year was NOT a trick play, our RB/WR could simply throw better than our QB so we ran it probably 20 times all season. As far as running up the score which is less classy, running our offense or kneeing it three times then punting?
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Post by fantom on Oct 18, 2012 12:28:34 GMT -6
I'll just say it: get better. If getting scored on by the other guy's 2nd team bothers you, get better. If you want to put your whole 1st team defense between the tackles and get mad because we go outside, get better. We'll do things to keep from embarrassing you but our responsibility is to our team and our kids. Running around end isn't the issue. If I'm stupid enough to load the box and allow that run then I'm asking for it. My issue is with the guys who say "oh I want to practice my trick plays" or "my second string needs to work on their deep passing game" that horse manure! They can practice against YOUR 1s. They are obviously better than the other teams ones so why not let them get better at beating the best? It's just a cop out to make them feel better about running the score up. OK, I agree. The problem is that we have two pages of posts in which we can't agree with what "running up the score" is. I've given up 55 points and didn't get mad at the other guy. Lost another game 20-6 and did get annoyed because the other guy called a TO to run one more play to get that last score. Since there are so many definitions I can only do what I think is right. We're not going to try to rub it in. If what we do isn't good enough for the other guy, oh well.
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Post by amikell on Oct 18, 2012 12:31:24 GMT -6
3. Doing things that make a mockery of the game (stuff that makes it look like they're toying with the opponent): B. Sending in your scout team to run the opponents' own offense against them. Somethings just are @$$ moves. This is one of them.
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Post by CS on Oct 18, 2012 13:18:21 GMT -6
Running around end isn't the issue. If I'm stupid enough to load the box and allow that run then I'm asking for it. My issue is with the guys who say "oh I want to practice my trick plays" or "my second string needs to work on their deep passing game" that horse manure! They can practice against YOUR 1s. They are obviously better than the other teams ones so why not let them get better at beating the best? It's just a cop out to make them feel better about running the score up. OK, I agree. The problem is that we have two pages of posts in which we can't agree with what "running up the score" is. I've given up 55 points and didn't get mad at the other guy. Lost another game 20-6 and did get annoyed because the other guy called a TO to run one more play to get that last score. Since there are so many definitions I can only do what I think is right. We're not going to try to rub it in. If what we do isn't good enough for the other guy, oh well. As far as I'm concerned here is a pretty good rule of thumb. Short passes are ok. No play action deep routes. Running plays that keep the clock moving. Around end up the middle whatever you ned to do to keep the ball moving and keep the defense honest. Just do not have tolerance for trick plays or passing deep or getting mad because the other team has their ones in. I just don't get that
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Post by Coach Huey on Oct 18, 2012 14:20:47 GMT -6
how about NOBODY focus on the scoreboard...
1) play to win the game... play your best, run any & everything you can to win the game
... once that outcome has been decided, the win is safe ...
2) play your backups to win the game ... because, they are only 1 play away from being the starter. give them game-time, quality reps running your offense. you need them to be able to perform at a moment's notice down the road. who cares what you call? you're calling it for them. you are wanting those kids to be able to execute the bootleg, or the trap, or the dropback game just as much as the dive play. get full speed, adrenaline pumping action in a game so their feet are wet.
... once that objective has been met, the 2's have gotten adequate work (maybe a 3-4 series, whatever... maybe more - that's the coach's call)
3) play whoever else is left. since they are at the bottom of the depth chart, not likely they are very good at the entire playbook so you're probably only going to call the base stuff --- things you teach your kids way back in junior high or the first day in your program. these aren't kids that are going to play very often. you're not trying to prepare them for anything. you're simply trying to get out of there with your team intact. you've accomplished all you need to accomplish (win, 2's got quality game reps) so the rest is pointless really. throw those scout-teamers a bone & let 'em run a few plays. wind the clock, go home & get ready for next week.
the score doesn't necessarily dictate anything.... when we feel we've got the game under control - it's safe to say we're going to win it - we go to objective 2. no, we're not going to take a knee if they haven't gotten their work. yes, we might actually run a stretch play or a zone play with 15 seconds left if we feel like they haven't achieved anything. while rare, that we wouldn't take a knee, it isn't about you, the scoreboard, etc. it is about my guys and blowouts are often rare so i want to get the next man in some game reps.
no different when we're getting our butts handed to us. we will eventually 'concede' and start getting some backups reps in a game. why? because we want to make sure that in the future, if they're called upon, maybe they aren't so nervous the first time they get live friday night lights action.
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jlt
Junior Member
Posts: 313
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Post by jlt on Oct 31, 2012 6:16:58 GMT -6
Exactly how I run it. Its the most sesnible way for YOUR team.
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Post by newhope on Oct 31, 2012 11:12:59 GMT -6
Sometimes it doesn't matter what you do anyhow, someone will accuse you of running up the score. A couple of weeks ago, we're ahead 36-0 in the third quarter. We squib kick, like we always do, but the kicker mis-hits the ball and it bounces off one of their front line guys and we fall on it. We score shortly thereafter to go up 43-0. We put in our subs. On our next possession, we don't do anything after the subs pick up a pair of penalties and we punt---the snap is high and the punter takes off, thinking the kick may be blocked. He runs it to the one. Subs score. 50-0, 4 minutes left in the third. Twos play a little while, then in come all the rests for most of the 4th quarter. Final score is 50-21 as other team goes up and down the field on our JVs and leftovers. After the game, two of their assistants come across the field with "f... you", "f... all of you", "we're not shaking your f.... hands", etc and then go after one of my assistants who tried to shake their hands, push one of my kids who is in the handshake line and all but instigate what could have developed into a full blown brawl. Fortunately, our kids and the great majority of theirs had better sense than the two assistants and something really nasty was avoided. The officials and their chain crew on our side knew the circumstances---they heard me complain on both the kick plays and ask the officials about throwing a flag after the run with the punt. It didn't matter---we're now villains when we trying to do the right thing. Sometimes it just doesn't matter what you do.
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