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Post by twood on Sept 19, 2012 20:34:44 GMT -6
I was hired as the head coach last year to take over a struggling program (won 6 games in 3 yrs.). Last year we went 2-8 (my 1st year) but looking to the future I started 9 soph. This year I lost some of those guys but still returned guys with experience. We are a Jr heavy team with only 4 Sr.s who start. Unfortunately we are 0-4. Could easily be 3-1.
Loss 1- Lost in triple OT
Loss 2 - Down by 7, Fumbled the snap on the 6yd line going in with 1:16 left in the game. We had just drove 50+yds in 3 min. Lost 21-14.
Loss 3 - Losing 21-14 scored on an 18 yd TD pass with 5 sec left in the game. But missed the extra pt to lose 21-20
Here is my question.
How do you teach/train/practice to win???
I have looked all over the web and all I get are ideas "winning breads winning"... Thanks I get that but how do you go from losing to winning. I could blame it on luck but that means I don't have to change anything.
Any ideas will be very appreciated!!!
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kyle
Sophomore Member
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Post by kyle on Sept 20, 2012 7:14:06 GMT -6
How much emphasis do you put on winning?
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Post by mattharris75 on Sept 20, 2012 8:41:01 GMT -6
I think you keep grinding. Keep encouraging them, keep working hard. They are obviously so close. It's just a matter of getting over the hump at this point. Sounds like you're on the right track coach, keep after it!
In 2010 we went from a program that had never won more than 4 games in a single season, and never sniffed the playoffs, to winning 10 games and making it to the second round of the playoffs. Now, this was the second year after a coaching change, but the primary differences in my mind:
1. A coach who was positive, encouraging, and confident about 'working the plan'
2. a senior class who had been through the hard knocks and who were talented and competitive
3. A great off-season of S&C work
4. A switch to a simpler offensive scheme that maximized their talents (This is the least important in this list, but still a big factor)
Sometimes it takes a perfect storm to change the culture. And sometimes some of those things are out of your control. But I'd keep focusing on what you can influence and not worry about the rest. Once you get over the hump I think the mindset will change quickly. And you're nearly there!
One more thing to add. The previous poster asked, "How much do you emphasize winning?". In the case of our head coach, he never discussed it in the context of wins and losses. It was always about how Friday nights were simply the outflow of what we'd done in practice during the week and by extension all the work we'd done in the off-season. Win or lose, excellence is the goal, always within the context of our abilities. Excellence doesn't always come with a 'W', it comes in maximizing our god given abilities and efforts on every play.
I liked this approach, because I think it's easy to become too 'bottom line' in sports. Particularly at the high school level, the process and the journey are so important. If a kid gets too fixated on the scoreboard it may become detrimental to their success. You don't want them playing tight, and playing not to screw up.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 20, 2012 12:30:36 GMT -6
One more thing to add. The previous poster asked, "How much do you emphasize winning?". In the case of our head coach, he never discussed it in the context of wins and losses. It was always about how Friday nights were simply the outflow of what we'd done in practice during the week and by extension all the work we'd done in the off-season. Win or lose, excellence is the goal, always within the context of our abilities. Excellence doesn't always come with a 'W', it comes in maximizing our god given abilities and efforts on every play. I liked this approach, because I think it's easy to become too 'bottom line' in sports. Particularly at the high school level, the process and the journey are so important. If a kid gets too fixated on the scoreboard it may become detrimental to their success. You don't want them playing tight, and playing not to screw up. I get so sick of this type of talk. I'm not a "win at all costs" type of guy. I don't scream your head off if you do something wrong. It's not like I'm some villain. I just want my players to know the goal, and the goal is to win. When I played I experienced a lot of losing, even though I felt like I was very good. After every loss the coach would say something like, "did you play your best?" And I could honestly answer with "yes" because I had. It didn't matter though. I quit before junior year. You know why I quit? It's because I feltthat I was the only one taking the losses seriously. I worked hard in the off season, and I came back that next year stronger and faster than everyone, but I knew that wasn't going to change our outcome. So I quit, and the team had a pretty bad year, finishing 3 and 6. I probably could have made a difference in a few games, but why bother? There was no goal. I don't understand what makes people so ashamed of wanting to win either. It makes no sense. Vince Lombardi wasn't ashamed of it. Go look up some of his quotes. He wasn't out there talking about how his players played to the best of the abilities. He talked about winning. It's not a bad word. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 20, 2012 12:54:49 GMT -6
One more thing to add. The previous poster asked, "How much do you emphasize winning?". In the case of our head coach, he never discussed it in the context of wins and losses. It was always about how Friday nights were simply the outflow of what we'd done in practice during the week and by extension all the work we'd done in the off-season. Win or lose, excellence is the goal, always within the context of our abilities. Excellence doesn't always come with a 'W', it comes in maximizing our god given abilities and efforts on every play. I liked this approach, because I think it's easy to become too 'bottom line' in sports. Particularly at the high school level, the process and the journey are so important. If a kid gets too fixated on the scoreboard it may become detrimental to their success. You don't want them playing tight, and playing not to screw up. I get so sick of this type of talk. I'm not a "win at all costs" type of guy. I don't scream your head off if you do something wrong. It's not like I'm some villain. I just want my players to know the goal, and the goal is to win. When I played I experienced a lot of losing, even though I felt like I was very good. After every loss the coach would say something like, "did you play your best?" And I could honestly answer with "yes" because I had. It didn't matter though. I quit before junior year. You know why I quit? It's because I feltthat I was the only one taking the losses seriously. I worked hard in the off season, and I came back that next year stronger and faster than everyone, but I knew that wasn't going to change our outcome. So I quit, and the team had a pretty bad year, finishing 3 and 6. I probably could have made a difference in a few games, but why bother? There was no goal. I don't understand what makes people so ashamed of wanting to win either. It makes no sense. Vince Lombardi wasn't ashamed of it. Go look up some of his quotes. He wasn't out there talking about how his players played to the best of the abilities. He talked about winning. It's not a bad word. So how do you handle quitters on teams that you coach? |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 20, 2012 13:51:52 GMT -6
I get so sick of this type of talk. I'm not a "win at all costs" type of guy. I don't scream your head off if you do something wrong. It's not like I'm some villain. I just want my players to know the goal, and the goal is to win. When I played I experienced a lot of losing, even though I felt like I was very good. After every loss the coach would say something like, "did you play your best?" And I could honestly answer with "yes" because I had. It didn't matter though. I quit before junior year. You know why I quit? It's because I feltthat I was the only one taking the losses seriously. I worked hard in the off season, and I came back that next year stronger and faster than everyone, but I knew that wasn't going to change our outcome. So I quit, and the team had a pretty bad year, finishing 3 and 6. I probably could have made a difference in a few games, but why bother? There was no goal. I don't understand what makes people so ashamed of wanting to win either. It makes no sense. Vince Lombardi wasn't ashamed of it. Go look up some of his quotes. He wasn't out there talking about how his players played to the best of the abilities. He talked about winning. It's not a bad word. So how do you handle quitters on teams that you coach? Do you mean kids who quit the team or kids who quit trying? |
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Post by fantom on Sept 20, 2012 21:05:50 GMT -6
So how do you handle quitters on teams that you coach? Do you mean kids who quit the team or kids who quit trying? The team. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Sept 20, 2012 23:13:20 GMT -6
The problem with using "win" as the goal is that sometimes (most of the time), that is out of the hands of individual players. We try to focus on the things that individual players can control that add up to wins, such as "did we line up correctly, were we 100% with our checks, did we take on blocks with the correct shoulder, did we fit in the correct gap, did we block the correct defenders, did we make the correct reads", etc. Those are things that players can control, that most of the time determine who wins and loses.
If you just use "win" as the goal, how do you react when you play like crap but the team you are playing is so bad that you win anyway? Or how do you react when you are making legitimate progress toward becoming a good team, but your opponent that week was simply better than you?
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Post by olcoach53 on Sept 21, 2012 7:39:10 GMT -6
One more thing to add. The previous poster asked, "How much do you emphasize winning?". In the case of our head coach, he never discussed it in the context of wins and losses. It was always about how Friday nights were simply the outflow of what we'd done in practice during the week and by extension all the work we'd done in the off-season. Win or lose, excellence is the goal, always within the context of our abilities. Excellence doesn't always come with a 'W', it comes in maximizing our god given abilities and efforts on every play. I liked this approach, because I think it's easy to become too 'bottom line' in sports. Particularly at the high school level, the process and the journey are so important. If a kid gets too fixated on the scoreboard it may become detrimental to their success. You don't want them playing tight, and playing not to screw up. I get so sick of this type of talk. I'm not a "win at all costs" type of guy. I don't scream your head off if you do something wrong. It's not like I'm some villain. I just want my players to know the goal, and the goal is to win. When I played I experienced a lot of losing, even though I felt like I was very good. After every loss the coach would say something like, "did you play your best?" And I could honestly answer with "yes" because I had. It didn't matter though. I quit before junior year. You know why I quit? It's because I feltthat I was the only one taking the losses seriously. I worked hard in the off season, and I came back that next year stronger and faster than everyone, but I knew that wasn't going to change our outcome. So I quit, and the team had a pretty bad year, finishing 3 and 6. I probably could have made a difference in a few games, but why bother? There was no goal. I don't understand what makes people so ashamed of wanting to win either. It makes no sense. Vince Lombardi wasn't ashamed of it. Go look up some of his quotes. He wasn't out there talking about how his players played to the best of the abilities. He talked about winning. It's not a bad word. This is laughable. You make yourself sound like it is all about you and it was all about you growing up when you "played". So your team didnt win, that is a reason for you to quit on them? That is absolutely ridiculous. You sound like the perfect "ME" guy that you hear about in football. It's all about you and who cares what the team does, I guess that's why you quit on all of them. I'll bet you a dollar that those guys and your coaches were not sad to see you go. Sorry for the tirade, been a rough morning. As far as the original post, I agree, keep grinding and keep competing and good things are going to happen for your program and your kids. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 7:53:13 GMT -6
Do you mean kids who quit the team or kids who quit trying? The team. I try to talk to them and see why they're quitting and to see if it's something I did. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 7:55:59 GMT -6
The problem with using "win" as the goal is that sometimes (most of the time), that is out of the hands of individual players. We try to focus on the things that individual players can control that add up to wins, such as "did we line up correctly, were we 100% with our checks, did we take on blocks with the correct shoulder, did we fit in the correct gap, did we block the correct defenders, did we make the correct reads", etc. Those are things that players can control, that most of the time determine who wins and loses. If you just use "win" as the goal, how do you react when you play like crap but the team you are playing is so bad that you win anyway? Or how do you react when you are making legitimate progress toward becoming a good team, but your opponent that week was simply better than you? It's not their only goal, but it's the team goal. The goal of a business is to make money. Should employees care whether the company makes money? |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 7:57:09 GMT -6
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Post by wingtol on Sept 21, 2012 8:15:03 GMT -6
Real quick question before the rest... Kyle what level do you coach at?
The program I am at now was a perennial doormat before our head coach got there. Like 21 game losing streak, not competitive losses either I am talking 60-0 type. He never talked about winning his first year because it was all about getting better each week. The team bought into it and was competitive that year, still went 1-8 but games were now like 27-12 35-19, so closer games. Once the kids saw that first year that what we were doing worked they bought in. Next year 6-4 with 3 loses decided by 5 points total. Since then we have had 5 undefeated regular seasons, played for two district titles, and won one.
If you put to much emphasis on winning and start the whole win win win and you don't you lose kids. Work on getting better every week, when you get there then you talk about winning.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 21, 2012 8:24:18 GMT -6
One more thing to add. The previous poster asked, "How much do you emphasize winning?". In the case of our head coach, he never discussed it in the context of wins and losses. It was always about how Friday nights were simply the outflow of what we'd done in practice during the week and by extension all the work we'd done in the off-season. Win or lose, excellence is the goal, always within the context of our abilities. Excellence doesn't always come with a 'W', it comes in maximizing our god given abilities and efforts on every play. I liked this approach, because I think it's easy to become too 'bottom line' in sports. Particularly at the high school level, the process and the journey are so important. If a kid gets too fixated on the scoreboard it may become detrimental to their success. You don't want them playing tight, and playing not to screw up. This. Coaches need to put themselves in the shoes of these kids. A team that's been losing for years is going to feel a lot of pressure if the major, day to day emphasis is winning games. It's not like the kids have been intentionally losing over the years and we tend to forget that. Impress upon the kids the importance of working hard, learning and enjoying the game. Everything else tends to fall in place after that. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 8:40:32 GMT -6
Real quick question before the rest... Kyle what level do you coach at? The program I am at now was a perennial doormat before our head coach got there. Like 21 game losing streak, not competitive losses either I am talking 60-0 type. He never talked about winning his first year because it was all about getting better each week. The team bought into it and was competitive that year, still went 1-8 but games were now like 27-12 35-19, so closer games. Once the kids saw that first year that what we were doing worked they bought in. Next year 6-4 with 3 loses decided by 5 points total. Since then we have had 5 undefeated regular seasons, played for two district titles, and won one. If you put to much emphasis on winning and start the whole win win win and you don't you lose kids. Work on getting better every week, when you get there then you talk about winning. Youth. I'd love to do high school, but I can't do the hours. |
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Post by mattharris75 on Sept 21, 2012 8:51:00 GMT -6
Real quick question before the rest... Kyle what level do you coach at? Youth. I'd love to do high school, but I can't do the hours. I wouldn't let my kid play for you. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 8:57:41 GMT -6
Youth. I'd love to do high school, but I can't do the hours. I wouldn't let my kid play for you. Why's that, Coach? Because I said the "W" word? |
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flingt
Junior Member
"We don't care how big or strong our opponents are as long as they're human.?
Posts: 311
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Post by flingt on Sept 21, 2012 9:03:53 GMT -6
I wouldn't let my kid play for you. Why's that, Coach? Because I said the "W" word? I would't let my sons play for you either, you said the "Q" word. Won't you feel a bit hypocritical if a kid comes to you saying he wants to quit. What will you say? |
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flingt
Junior Member
"We don't care how big or strong our opponents are as long as they're human.?
Posts: 311
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Post by flingt on Sept 21, 2012 9:07:12 GMT -6
To the OP, coach, just keep grinding away. Evaluate what you do and how it all leads to the goal of building winner mentality. Sitting on helmets, walking in drills, being late are all the "losers mentality". You sound like you care so good luck.
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Post by fantom on Sept 21, 2012 9:31:10 GMT -6
I wouldn't let my kid play for you. Why's that, Coach? Because I said the "W" word? Because you don't understand the meaning of competition. The value of competition isn't just in winning. Somebody wins and somebody loses every game. The value of competition is the lessons that it teaches: teamwork, hard work in pursuit of a common goal, and persevering under adverse circumstances. By your posts and your resume you've demonstrated that you understand none of that. You're young. Maybe you'll get it eventually. |
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Post by mattharris75 on Sept 21, 2012 9:52:47 GMT -6
I wouldn't let my kid play for you. Why's that, Coach? Because I said the "W" word? It's for the plethora of reasons that these coaches before me have already listed. As a youth football coach you should be more concerned with teaching the kids fundamentals, and instilling a love of the game in them. Your perspective is way off. Emphasizing 'win, win, win', is like yelling 'hit someone'. It's mindless coaching. Make no mistake, I value winning, but the path to winning is a process. And you have to work the process. Control the little things day to day that you are able to control. Have a plan and work it. That's how you get the kids to buy in. You can do everything right and sometimes you're not going to win, it is what it is. But a process leads to progress, which, more often than not, will lead to wins. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 10:06:06 GMT -6
Why's that, Coach? Because I said the "W" word? I would't let my sons play for you either, you said the "Q" word. Won't you feel a bit hypocritical if a kid comes to you saying he wants to quit. What will you say? I quit when I was 16. I do regret it now, but that's only because my 16 year old logic was kinda weird. I actually made a little pro and con chart. I don't remember everything that was on it, but I did have stuff like a job and not liking the coaches very much. My father also hated football. That was always a problem for me. It was enough to make me want to quit. Now in hind sight, I can see that it was a poor choice, but I made sure to do it at the beginning of the season, and I made sure to tell them that I was quitting. I would have also said why, but they never asked. Maybe someone on here is right, maybe they didn't like me. Maybe I was some {censored} who was a cancer to the team, but I don't think I was, and I did start. That's what I would do and have done differently when a kid came to me and told me that they wanted to quit. I asked them why. Now, the only kid that has ever told me that he wanted to quit told me that it was because he wanted to play running back, and I told him that it was a team sport. That was 2008. I feel like you guys are picturing some type of dickish villain here, and all I did was say the word "win". lol |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 10:18:32 GMT -6
1. You QUIT playing football for selfish reasons that you continue to justify. I don't know how old you are but you're a "coach" making excuses for why you QUIT. Apparently, you'd think it's completely kosher for a kid to walk up and quit on the team because everyone else is dragging them down. Well I'm glad somebody has the balls to tell me that. It's not very PC though, eh?  2. Because of #1, I get the strong feeling that you don't have a clue how to coach a TEAM. Imagine you view the kids as individuals who simply help you win. What happens when your team loses coach? If your attitude holds true, you're blaming the kids for the loss. My first season we were in a real bad position. I didn't know anything about football, and the guy I was coaching with knew even less. We lost every game, and we didn't score a point, but during one game we did a pretty good job. We held them to six points for most of the game, right up until the end. And at the end of that game the kids knew they had played well, and this kid smiled and looked at me and said, "Coach, I know we didn't win but it feels like we did!" I've been hooked ever since. 3. Yes, you have too much of an emphasis on winning, especially at the youth level. The youth level is about teaching the kids the game, developing their skills and work ethic and playing all the kids. Also, in looking at posts from other threads, it appears to me that you're another Xs and Os guru. I don't even say the word "win" because it'd give me too much {censored} to deal with. Case in point. You know, it's coaches like you that are screwing up youth sports. I've been fighting the selfish, self-centered bullsh-t attitudes of players all year because they've picked it up from their former coaches. Really? Well since you were so bold before... I'll do you the same favor. I'll bet your team acts just like you do. |
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Post by coachks on Sept 21, 2012 10:22:03 GMT -6
I feel like you guys are picturing some type of dickish villain here, and all I did was say the word "win". lol No, that isn't all you did. But you sure as hell are making an effort to make yourself think that is the argument. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 10:24:02 GMT -6
I made that mistake once.  I'm not a win at all costs type of coach. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 10:27:56 GMT -6
No, that isn't all you did. But you sure as hell are making an effort to make yourself think that is the argument. Yeah, you're right. I should have realized. |
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Post by mattharris75 on Sept 21, 2012 10:31:38 GMT -6
I made that mistake once. I'm not a win at all costs type of coach. I'm not sure what kind of coach you are, but you're clearly delusional. You should probably just stop posting, you keep digging a bigger hole for yourself. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 21, 2012 10:43:00 GMT -6
1. You QUIT playing football for selfish reasons that you continue to justify. I don't know how old you are but you're a "coach" making excuses for why you QUIT. Apparently, you'd think it's completely kosher for a kid to walk up and quit on the team because everyone else is dragging them down. Well I'm glad somebody has the balls to tell me that. It's not very PC though, eh? My first season we were in a real bad position. I didn't know anything about football, and the guy I was coaching with knew even less. We lost every game, and we didn't score a point, but during one game we did a pretty good job. We held them to six points for most of the game, right up until the end. And at the end of that game the kids knew they had played well, and this kid smiled and looked at me and said, "Coach, I know we didn't win but it feels like we did!" I've been hooked ever since. I don't even say the word "win" because it'd give me too much {censored} to deal with. Case in point. You know, it's coaches like you that are screwing up youth sports. I've been fighting the selfish, self-centered bullsh-t attitudes of players all year because they've picked it up from their former coaches. Really? Well since you were so bold before... I'll do you the same favor. I'll bet your team acts just like you do. It's not MY team, it's OUR team. We're all in it together: the kids, staff, EVERYONE. And yes, they do act like myself and the staff: they now call each other out on the selfish, self-centered bullsh-t attitudes. They push themselves and everyone around them during practice because it's what WE demand. They've learned more about football, hard work and teamwork in 5 weeks than they have in the previous four years. And, they understand that winning is a secondary goal and that it means nothing unless we've won as a team and everyone has contributed. Our success this season has been due to two things: 1) The kids buying into what we're selling and 2) we play against other teams coached by guys who try to sell elementary school kids on Vince Lombardi quotes. |
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 10:45:19 GMT -6
Lol so let me ask you guys this:
Do you ever intentionally put pressure on kids in practice so that they're ready for a game?
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Post by fantom on Sept 21, 2012 10:46:22 GMT -6
Lol so let me ask you guys this: Do you ever intentionally put pressure on kids in practice so that they're ready for a game? Every rep in practice is pressure. |
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