kyle
Sophomore Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Posts: 200
|
Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 10:53:07 GMT -6
It's not MY team, it's OUR team. We're all in it together: the kids, staff, EVERYONE. And yes, they do act like myself and the staff: they now call each other out on the selfish, self-centered bullsh-t attitudes. They push themselves and everyone around them during practice because it's what WE demand. They've learned more about football, hard work and teamwork in 5 weeks than they have in the previous four years. And, they understand that winning is a secondary goal and that it means nothing unless we've won as a team and everyone has contributed. Our success this season has been due to two things: 1) The kids buying into what we're selling and 2) we play against other teams coached by guys who try to sell elementary school kids on Vince Lombardi quotes. Well that's pretty cool, I was kinda worried for you because you sounded like you were making some excuses back there, but when you say that you've met with success... you mean what exactly?
|
|
kyle
Sophomore Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Posts: 200
|
Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 10:53:49 GMT -6
Lol so let me ask you guys this: Do you ever intentionally put pressure on kids in practice so that they're ready for a game? Every rep in practice is pressure. Why's that?
|
|
kyle
Sophomore Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Posts: 200
|
Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 11:03:03 GMT -6
I can appreciate the irony. ;D
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 11:06:23 GMT -6
Coach... I am in the same boat as you.
Kids are too focused on the outcome (wins & losses) rather than the process (hard work, dedication, sacrifice, etc...). Kids have to see you being an example of it as well.
2 weeks ago, we win 41-7... We were terrible on offense, below average on defense, but the other team gave us the ball 5 times on turnovers (2 INT's for TD's, 3 fumbles). After the game I told them congrats on the win, but we did not play well today. They lost the game, we didn't win it!
Last week we lose 56-7... We moved the ball on offense in the air, played hard on defense but just played a team that averaged 300+ lbs on the OL, and has a QB and RB committed to play at BYU. Made too many mistakes to have a chance against a team like that. Post game was all about how I was proud of them for playing hard and giving it their all, but we still made too many mistakes to have a chance against a good team.
Reinforce the fact that winning and losing is not MORE important than working hard and doing all the right things is what you care about MORE. That is how you have to approach it coach... eventually you will get a group of kids that buys in and will have enough talent and good things will happen.
I am working on reminding myself this each week as I am at a school with absolutely no tradition, or experience winning close games, or even having games that are competitive. Trying to convince the kids that doing their job and working hard will pay off in the long-run. The problem today is that many kids are interested only in short-term rewards, rather than long-term benefit. Let me know if you find an "answer" because I need to know how to do it too! I just do what I believe in, and if I get canned... I just move on with my head up high!
Like my college coach told me when I told him I was going into coaching:
"There are only 2 types of coaches... Those who have been fired, and those that will be fired"
|
|
|
Post by rcole on Sept 21, 2012 11:08:19 GMT -6
Two points here that really jumped out at me:
1) Kyle - "Vince Lombardi wasn't ashamed of it. Go look up some of his quotes. He wasn't out there talking about how his players played to the best of the abilities. He talked about winning. It's not a bad word."
2) Kyle - "The goal of a business is to make money. Should employees care whether the company makes money?"
In response to the Vince Lombardi point, have you ever read John Wooden? He won a little bit too, NEVER talked about winning, only about PROCESS. Excellent process produces wins. I would encourage you to look into some of his writings. There are several books about or by him.
In response to the business/money comment. I would encourage you to look into two books by Jim Collins. Built To Last and Good To Great. Theses two books are widely read in the business world and accepted by that same money making business world. In these two books they researched and chronicled 1) What were the common characteristics of enduring Great companies and 2) What were the common characteristics shared by companies that were good for an extended period of time and then became Great for an extended period of time (short list of companies by the way, only 11 met the criteria). One clear undeniable point in both of these books is that these businesses did NOT focus on making money. They focused on making or doing something far more compelling...a vision or mission if you will. That focus on making something excellent or doing something exceptional is the reason they made money, not the focus on money. In fact many of the comparison companies that they blew out of the water had focused on making money.
Not a criticism of you or your opinions, just some food for thought. Look into it. Often the conventional wisdom held by many is actually the furthest thing from reality.
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 11:15:38 GMT -6
I am a huge fan of Lombardi, but I agree that too many people focus on his quotes that include the word "winning" or the word "victory"...
He was a man who believed in doing things EXACTLY THE WAY HE WANTED THEM DONE or he would ship you out, fine you, or get you traded. Read the book, "When Pride Still Mattered" and see that when he was a high school coach, he used to pay the police to bring 15-18 year old kids they were chasing in the streets to his football practice, rather than taking them to the station. He did some things at the time that were acceptable, that would get you fired, arrested, sued, etc... Different time, different place. But look at what he was really teaching the kids and the adults he worked with.
My favorite Lombardi quote:
“The dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price.” – Vince Lombardi
Nothing to do with winning specifically
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 11:16:10 GMT -6
“Individual commitment to a group effort – that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work.” – Vince Lombardi
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 11:16:30 GMT -6
“Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile.” – Vince Lombardi
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 11:17:11 GMT -6
“Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.” – Vince Lombardi
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 11:18:03 GMT -6
“All right Mister, let me tell you what winning means... you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else.” – Vince Lombardi
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 11:19:44 GMT -6
And my favorite one EVER...
“When you become result-oriented, you lose the focus on the process of what it takes for you to improve and get better and play your best. You're always playing to a standard; you're not just playing to win the game.” – Nick Saban
Alabama doesn't play their opponents, their coach gets them to play themselves from the previous day, week, game, practice, season, etc... Process over result.
|
|
kyle
Sophomore Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Posts: 200
|
Post by kyle on Sept 21, 2012 11:19:51 GMT -6
Two points here that really jumped out at me: 1) Kyle - "Vince Lombardi wasn't ashamed of it. Go look up some of his quotes. He wasn't out there talking about how his players played to the best of the abilities. He talked about winning. It's not a bad word." 2) Kyle - "The goal of a business is to make money. Should employees care whether the company makes money?" In response to the Vince Lombardi point, have you ever read John Wooden? He won a little bit too, NEVER talked about winning, only about PROCESS. Excellent process produces wins. I would encourage you to look into some of his writings. There are several books about or by him. In response to the business/money comment. I would encourage you to look into two books by Jim Collins. Built To Last and Good To Great. Theses two books are widely read in the business world and accepted by that same money making business world. In these two books they researched and chronicled 1) What were the common characteristics of enduring Great companies and 2) What were the common characteristics shared by companies that were good for an extended period of time and then became Great for an extended period of time (short list of companies by the way, only 11 met the criteria). One clear undeniable point in both of these books is that these businesses did NOT focus on making money. They focused on making or doing something far more compelling...a vision or mission if you will. That focus on making something excellent or doing something exceptional is the reason they made money, not the focus on money. In fact many of the comparison companies that they blew out of the water had focused on making money. Not a criticism of you or your opinions, just some food for thought. Look into it. Often the conventional wisdom held by many is actually the furthest thing from reality. Thank you for your respectful reply. I'll look into them. I've heard of John Wooden, and I think culture is something I could study some more in the off season. That'll probably be where I start now. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 11:37:29 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by olcoach53 on Sept 21, 2012 11:40:26 GMT -6
This Kyle guy is awesome!
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Sept 21, 2012 11:45:44 GMT -6
da um guys, I don't think the guy is trying to prove he is a peewee lombardi. Remember, on these here messagy bord things: -tone doesn't come through the keyboard -neither do facial expressions and body language which are more communicative than the actual message itself -just because I am a XXXX coach, dealing with ZZZZ problem and am asking about it on this board, that doesn't mean I am the AAAA terd coach you had a game against/coach with/used to work with/drives you crazy/daddy coach/psycho/insecure/bi-polar/spineless/tactless one that just found and got on your last nerve today. NOt all of us know how to ;D or ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) or ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) or ![:-*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/kiss.png)
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Sept 21, 2012 11:49:16 GMT -6
I wouldn't let my kid play for you. Why's that, Coach? Because I said the "W" word? Personally I would say because in a previous topic you asked about how to get kids to have a soldier like attitude as killers on min and normal the next. Talked about making them Nasty players. That kind of bothers me at the youth level. That level should be about blocking and tackling correctly, not turning kids into "killers". That's why my kid would never play for you.
|
|
|
Post by mattharris75 on Sept 21, 2012 11:58:13 GMT -6
da um guys, I don't think the guy is trying to prove he is a peewee lombardi. I would direct you to Reply #3 in this thread, where he goes off on an unprovoked rant.
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 12:05:57 GMT -6
I think at the end of the day this entire thread comes down to the "chicken and the egg" so-to-speak:
Focus on winning and everything else comes as a result Focus on everything else and winning comes as a result
I just posted all those quotes from Lombardi because I don't feel Lombardi was the "win at all costs" guy like some of his most famous quotes give the perception of him being that way. Just showing that he was more about working hard and doing the things REQUIRED to win, because at the professional level, it is a business about winning.
I think some coaches jumped on Kyle due to the wording he chose to use, rather than completely disagreeing with what he is saying, I think many of the people disagree with the way it was worded. At the end of the day, kids win/lose games. If you can get the kids stronger, bigger, faster, more confident, and intelligent in terms of football, you will win games.
"It isn't the X's and O's... it's the Jimmys and Joes"
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 21, 2012 12:07:11 GMT -6
Plus... with all the coaches on the board, we are kind of trained to ATTACK if we sense insecurity!
Whether it be on the field with a 16 year old kid or the wording of another coach on a message board!
It is in our DNA
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Sept 21, 2012 12:10:02 GMT -6
Oh, i've read the whole thing, still stand by previous assumption.
Most people come by here for help.
I admit I have failed in this aspect as well.
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Sept 22, 2012 2:41:40 GMT -6
Two points here that really jumped out at me: 1) Kyle - "Vince Lombardi wasn't ashamed of it. Go look up some of his quotes. He wasn't out there talking about how his players played to the best of the abilities. He talked about winning. It's not a bad word." 2) Kyle - "The goal of a business is to make money. Should employees care whether the company makes money?" In response to the Vince Lombardi point, have you ever read John Wooden? He won a little bit too, NEVER talked about winning, only about PROCESS. Excellent process produces wins. I would encourage you to look into some of his writings. There are several books about or by him. In response to the business/money comment. I would encourage you to look into two books by Jim Collins. Built To Last and Good To Great. Theses two books are widely read in the business world and accepted by that same money making business world. In these two books they researched and chronicled 1) What were the common characteristics of enduring Great companies and 2) What were the common characteristics shared by companies that were good for an extended period of time and then became Great for an extended period of time (short list of companies by the way, only 11 met the criteria). One clear undeniable point in both of these books is that these businesses did NOT focus on making money. They focused on making or doing something far more compelling...a vision or mission if you will. That focus on making something excellent or doing something exceptional is the reason they made money, not the focus on money. In fact many of the comparison companies that they blew out of the water had focused on making money. Not a criticism of you or your opinions, just some food for thought. Look into it. Often the conventional wisdom held by many is actually the furthest thing from reality. Some of the best philosophical things I've read on this forum have consistently been from Rcole. As someone who spends way too much time on here, I've really valued his perspective on topics such as this one. Take that for what it's worth. I've never been a HC, but I've been a part of 3 rebuilds in various capacities. Going from winning to losing has consistently been about changing thought patterns, habits, and focus. Everyone wants to win, not everyone wants to do what it takes, some people just want to look like they're trying to win. Kyle, I'm not one to pile on, so I'll approach the winning thing from a different perspective (and I realize this all came from a question about emphasis on winning, not winning itself)... What happens AFTER you've won it all? After you've gone 10-0 or whatever, what's next?
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Sept 22, 2012 21:34:41 GMT -6
WOW...
Actually, I think most of the bickering in this thread probably stems from just a poor use of vocabulary. Substitute the word "competing" in where kyle said "winning" and I don't think we have 2 pages of sniping.
|
|
|
Post by paulfrantz on Sept 23, 2012 12:25:00 GMT -6
Well while yall are holding Kyle down let me kick him in the throat one time. HAHA JK ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) What I'm getting at is even though we don't agree with what he said, and wouldn't want him coaching our kids(mine are grown now), the fact is he does coach kids. So maybe our energy could be more productive if we try to turn him away from the dark side with kindness, not criticism. Just sayn
|
|
|
Post by mariettablue on Sept 27, 2012 14:17:52 GMT -6
I have been coaching youth football since my son began to play 6 years ago. Me as a player was always on a winning team from little league to High school (Valdosta Wildcats) to a few semi pro teams that won championships. We moved to a part of Georgia where "Football" was only played on the Xbox. It took two years before my son was on the win side of a game. Through all the losses I realized now what my coaches back then were instilling in us. We worked so hard in practice that it translated to the game and was the difference in the outcome. Hard work is the thing that divides the wins and the losses. This includes the coaches as well as players. Today so many coaches want to hunt down the studs and depend on their ability to win rather than take a kid and develop him into a player. I personally think that the "Coach" word is used far more out of context than "Winning" because winning can be the fuel and the reward for "Hard Work".
|
|
|
Post by joelee on Sept 28, 2012 6:29:48 GMT -6
As I get older I move to a more balanced approach in everything I do. Some kids respond differently to different things. I believe in Saban and his "process". When I was younger it was Frosty Westering and "make the big time where you are" and the edge of the coin stuff. However some kids don't understand that or don't buy into it because of thier parents or whatever. Winning is important too. I talk about both in our program. 50-50 almost. I think it makes my philosophy well rounded and touches more kids.
|
|
|
Post by joelee on Sept 28, 2012 6:31:54 GMT -6
I was hired as the head coach last year to take over a struggling program (won 6 games in 3 yrs.). Last year we went 2-8 (my 1st year) but looking to the future I started 9 soph. This year I lost some of those guys but still returned guys with experience. We are a Jr heavy team with only 4 Sr.s who start. Unfortunately we are 0-4. Could easily be 3-1. Loss 1- Lost in triple OT Loss 2 - Down by 7, Fumbled the snap on the 6yd line going in with 1:16 left in the game. We had just drove 50+yds in 3 min. Lost 21-14. Loss 3 - Losing 21-14 scored on an 18 yd TD pass with 5 sec left in the game. But missed the extra pt to lose 21-20 Here is my question. How do you teach/train/practice to win??? I have looked all over the web and all I get are ideas "winning breads winning"... Thanks I get that but how do you go from losing to winning. I could blame it on luck but that means I don't have to change anything. Any ideas will be very appreciated!!! Do more competitive things in practice and in your off season program. Reward winners! Teach players how to handle the ups and downs of competition.
|
|
|
Post by WTR on Sept 28, 2012 7:50:40 GMT -6
Just another typical overzealous youth football coach.
|
|
|
Post by redfish on Sept 29, 2012 22:43:24 GMT -6
...Here is my question. How do you teach/train/practice to win??? I have looked all over the web and all I get are ideas "winning breads winning"... Thanks I get that but how do you go from losing to winning. I could blame it on luck but that means I don't have to change anything. Any ideas will be very appreciated!!! This was mentioned earlier and is, I feel very important. You must teach your players to be competitive in every thing they do in regard to football. Every rep, every drill, every play, every second, every minute, quarter half and game. You must be energetic, consistent and focused on one thing, improvement. Make improvement the reason for everything you do. Have skill based conditioning and make sure the players know why they are doing everything. Emphasize that conditioning is not punishment, it is preparation. A necessary ingredient to winning.
|
|
|
Post by twood on Oct 10, 2012 10:16:18 GMT -6
Wow! It has been a little while since I was on here. Thanks for all the suggestions! I have been trying to get our guys to do the small things "do the small things and the big things will happen". That is a challenge within itself. To answer Kyle and everyone else, I try to avoid talking about winning but that is the ultimate team goal. I preach about the real importance of sports/completion, making you a better athlete/person, team work, dedication etc…. But we are all there to win so it does come up. Kyle, I also address the fact that it is hard to come to practice and bust your butt when things aren’t going your way. But the only way to change that is hard work. It is easy to come to practice when things are going your way. Unfortunately some guys don’t see it that way. My Sr. FS/RB (who had rushed for over 200+ yds over the last 2 games) quit after our 4th game. He might have felt the same way you did Kyle. But sometimes it is addition by subtraction. The next game we won 34-12 and my other Sr. stepped up and rushed for 139 yds.
|
|
kyle
Sophomore Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Posts: 200
|
Post by kyle on Oct 10, 2012 14:41:34 GMT -6
Kyle, I also address the fact that it is hard to come to practice and bust your butt when things aren’t going your way. But the only way to change that is hard work. It is easy to come to practice when things are going your way. Unfortunately some guys don’t see it that way. My Sr. FS/RB (who had rushed for over 200+ yds over the last 2 games) quit after our 4th game. He might have felt the same way you did Kyle. But sometimes it is addition by subtraction. The next game we won 34-12 and my other Sr. stepped up and rushed for 139 yds. Well I'm glad you won. Congratulations. ;D Hard work was there, for me at least. Another player on our team was able to squat 700 lbs. He wasn't a very good football player though.
|
|