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Post by ryanculloty on May 3, 2012 5:39:31 GMT -6
Coaches:
In light of the recent events regarding former NFL players with chronic head injuries or worse...there was a pundit on the radio this morning who said:
"if things do not change in the game of football, I do not see it being played in 25 years."
The more I think about it, the more I side with him...what can we do to ensure the safety of our players?
If we do not figure out a way to make our game safer I believe the future of our game is in serious danger....thoughts?
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Post by blb on May 3, 2012 6:04:55 GMT -6
Control those things which we have control over:
Provide players with best protective equipment possible.
Teach only safe techniques. Stress keeping the head out of contact at all times.
Do not use terms with violent connotations such as "Smash mouth" (has been recommended by AFCA for years).
Do not play injured players until cleared by medical professional.
Communicate to parents that the game we coach-their sons play is NOT the one they see on Sunday.
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Post by 19delta on May 3, 2012 6:10:04 GMT -6
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Post by jlenwood on May 3, 2012 6:27:39 GMT -6
I think a big component of this debate that gets overlooked is equipment. Every school district seems to have funding issues, so what do they do to compensate...buy the cheapest equipment available.
Also, make sure your coaches are fully trained in safe practice procedures. Don't just make them attend a course or read an article on concussions and think that's OK.
At some point there needs to be an overhaul of how football safety is viewed almost the way NASCAR looked at safety after Dale Earnhart got killed. Truly put emphasis on safety and training...and I mean meaningful training. Not the waste of time stuff we have to set through now.
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Post by olsenray61 on May 3, 2012 6:33:28 GMT -6
Coach,
I hope your post will generate alot of discussion. With the passing of Junior Seau and the potential cause CTE football will again be put under the microscope. I inform parents that our number one goal is the safety of their child. Here are some things that we do:
Before Participation All Athletes will have:
1. Physicals
2. IMPACT test
3. Proper Fitting Equipment - Athletes will be measured to
manufacture specs by the head coach
All results will be viewed by the head coach and trainer.
4. All coaches will receive a copy of medical information and reviewed
in coaches meeting.
During practice:
No one will tackle until I feel we've had enough technique and
practice time.
Hydration - Coaches/Players can get as much water as needed
During drills we match ability with ability - Set for success.
These are a few ideas that I share with our parents at our required pre-season meeting. I think it's important to educate the public on what we do to keep our athletes safe.
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Post by olsenray61 on May 3, 2012 6:34:58 GMT -6
I like what I'm reading!
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Post by coachbuck on May 3, 2012 7:18:30 GMT -6
Control those things which we have control over: Provide players with best protective equipment possible. Teach only safe techniques. Stress keeping the head out of contact at all times. Do not use terms with violent connotations such as "Smash mouth" (has been recommended by AFCA for years). Do not play injured players until cleared by medical professional. Communicate to parents that the game we coach-their sons play is NOT the one they see on Sunday. blb I agree with all your suggestions except the term "smash mouth" Football is a violent sport. Its always going to be a violent sport. The word "hit" can be viewed as violent. We as coaches say that work until the cows come home. Just my opinion. I know alot of coaches are going to disagree with me on that point. Another suggestion is maybe not playing on turf. It has sped the game up so much. Indoor on turf is way faster then outside in the rain on real grass. I know its not as comfortable for the fan but it will sure slow the game down and that will result in less violent hits. |
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Post by gschwender on May 3, 2012 7:21:19 GMT -6
During the lockout the NFL wanted to mandate that players be properly fitted for equipment and be penalized if not worn properly and the players assoc wouldn't have it. Then players/families of players want to sue bc of head injuries-doesn't seem like it should be both ways
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Post by John Knight on May 3, 2012 7:24:53 GMT -6
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Post by blb on May 3, 2012 7:42:07 GMT -6
Are you really teaching your players to smash opponents in the mouth (part of the head)?
If not, why use that term?
If so, you shouldn't be.
Could you defend using it in a court of law if sued over an injury?
If not, don't use it.
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Post by coachbuck on May 3, 2012 7:46:15 GMT -6
Fly sweep. Is he really flying? We use alot of terms as coaches that we are not actually doing. We teach our players to hit other players. That is just as violent to me as smash mouth. I could defend myself in a court of law because we teach the game of football, nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by John Knight on May 3, 2012 7:46:55 GMT -6
We all know that smash mouth doesn't mean smash a mouth. It means run the ball right at the opponent, in a power formation and let the road graders do their job. Anyone that has watched a power offense knows that smashmouth is not about violence but a style of play. It is like when you say you are going to kick someones a$$, no kicking is involved!
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Post by mitch on May 3, 2012 7:55:18 GMT -6
I don't see how you can keep the head out of the game. Look at any slow-motion clips and the head is going to be in the contact in the vast majority of blocks, tackles, runs, etc.
I would argue that the head is the first thing to make contact on most blocks and tackles. There is no way around that, physiologically.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on May 3, 2012 7:56:18 GMT -6
It seems like there are huge gaps in the studies and scientific data and the conclusions of laymen. While anecdotal evidence suggests football causes concussions at a high rate "studies show". Some of the data I have seen qualify a concussion as any trauma that occurs to the brain. Where the majority of concussions documented are the same as a child jumping up and down at a fast pace or a seatbelted child in a sudden stop in a car or a child getting hit in the head with a ball on the playground etc. Also, the long term effects studies I have read have been studied for injured or diseased brains with no look at wehter the brains were pre-disposed because of genetics, lifestyle or health choices.
If you look at the brain it is has an amazing abiltiy to heal and recover from severe trauma - including years of addictions, near death injuries and genetic abnormalities. Its easy to point finger now without all the info.
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Post by blb on May 3, 2012 8:00:19 GMT -6
We all know that smash mouth doesn't mean smash a mouth. It means run the ball right at the opponent, in a power formation and let the road graders do their job. "We" may but mommies and some daddies don't. A judge or jury won't. From the AFCA: "Smash Mouth" Football, Similar Terms, Should Not Be in a Coach's Vocabulary Hard-nosed, maybe, but "smash mouth" football is not how competent football coaches refer to their game. Football is a contact game, but terms that reflect brutality or violence do not belong in a coach's vocabulary. Image is one reason to clean up slang terms like smash-mouth that have become popular in the media, but a more compelling reason comes from a legal standpoint. In a courtroom, descriptive terms are used against coaches and the game. Don't hesitate to ask your fellow coaches, student-athletes and especially the media who cover your team to cooperate and refrain from using overly-descriptive terms that reflect poorly on the game and your profession. (AFCA Technical Manual 2010) |
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Post by coachdennis on May 3, 2012 8:03:28 GMT -6
The irony is that as we keep focusing on football's risks, sports like MMA, ski cross, etc. are booming in popularity. The number one movie at the box office this Spring is based on a novel where teenagers hunt each other to the death. So much for a kinder, gentler society.
Those of us who have been around for a long time know that we are seeing fewer injuries now in football than we did a generation ago. We also know that kids will be kids, and that they will find an outlet for their energy and aggression, be it football or something else. There are no guarantees, of course, that football will remain as popular in 25 years as it is now. After all, as Gregg Easterbrook is fond of reminding us, there was a time when boxing and horse racing dominated the sports pages. I do know, though, that basic human nature is unlikely to shift radically in my lifetime. Whether or not people choose to scapegoat our sport remains to be seen.
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Post by John Knight on May 3, 2012 8:04:38 GMT -6
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Post by mitch on May 3, 2012 8:12:21 GMT -6
Put up a clip of chest to chest tackling. I bet the head is involved.
What if you are a defender and the RB runs with forward lean, i.e. puts his head down? You gonna tackle him with your chest?
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Post by powerfootball71 on May 3, 2012 8:12:57 GMT -6
This trend as a ex olinemen and current oline coach is deeply disturbing to. I coach and played at a school were the former head coach 2 former staff members are in the hall of fame the current oline coach (we have 2) and possible 2 other staff members will likely make it in also. On top of this 3 former players are on nfl staffs. Smash mouth physical football is some thing engrained. I don't see myself or the staff I'm on getting away from that.
As a kid what was it that football offered that other sports didn't? Contact physical strain a need to have 11 guys execute to make a play work to overcome talent. Thats why
I personaly couldn't get into the spread I feel it loses those core vaules that I feel I'm hoping to install in young men. Are the schemes interesting? Absolutey but as a former olinemen I just don't feel its the same.
I plan on coaching the game the same way I was taught and men before me were.I think if you use the same delivery I my college coaches used and in a extreme case Williams used your a idiot. Just like playing I'm not going to worry anymore about getting sued then getting injured. As long as I up hold my responsibility as a coach to teach safety and legal techs I hope I would be fine.
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Post by tog on May 3, 2012 8:13:01 GMT -6
And the handwringer nannystaters will have succeeded.
Life is hard. I can get hit by a truck crossing the street. Therefore I choose to never cross a street again?
The day football dies, is the day this country dies.
Maybe we can be a dominant world power with our most radical "competitive" cheer teams?
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mark823
Probationary Member
Posts: 5
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Post by mark823 on May 3, 2012 8:17:29 GMT -6
This may sound crazy but I believe the answer is to get rid of some of the equipment we currently have. If we don't have helmets no one will use their head as a weapon. Remove the shoulder pads or at least reduce them in size. Maybe just a pad type material to reduce impact. Similar to rugby.
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Post by coachbuck on May 3, 2012 8:20:13 GMT -6
This may sound crazy but I believe the answer is to get rid of some of the equipment we currently have. If we don't have helmets no one will use their head as a weapon. Remove the shoulder pads or at least reduce them in size. Maybe just a pad type material to reduce impact. Similar to rugby. You are right, it does sound crazy. |
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Post by John Knight on May 3, 2012 8:22:29 GMT -6
The facemask is involved, not the head. There is a big difference.
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Post by cqmiller on May 3, 2012 8:23:50 GMT -6
Football gets the bad reputation about concussions, but around here basketball causes a higher percentage of them. For a 100 player football team, if 5 get a concussion, it is 5%. In basketball with only 10-15 kids on a team one concussion is almost 10% of participants.
A sport where MORE PEOPLE are on a team, the TOTAL NUMBER of all types of injuries will be higher. Football is the high-profile sport so it gets all the drama.
I have classrooms full of kids that do not care, have no sense of work-ethic, and are so mentally weak that they will have a hard time keeping a job flipping burgers at McDonalds the rest of their lives. Let's just make everything completely safe for everyone and put styrofoam pads on everyone and put a limit on how fast you can run. You want to play a "tough-guy" sport, but you don't want to deal with the part that makes it a "tough-guy" sport.
If professional football players don't want health issues, then take a teacher's salary and have no risk of concussions. High-Risk = High-Reward. Don't cry for millions of dollars then cry when the career that pays you those millions has a down-side.
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Post by tog on May 3, 2012 8:27:19 GMT -6
Football gets the bad reputation about concussions, but around here basketball causes a higher percentage of them. For a 100 player football team, if 5 get a concussion, it is 5%. In basketball with only 10-15 kids on a team one concussion is almost 10% of participants. A sport where MORE PEOPLE are on a team, the TOTAL NUMBER of all types of injuries will be higher. Football is the high-profile sport so it gets all the drama. I have classrooms full of kids that do not care, have no sense of work-ethic, and are so mentally weak that they will have a hard time keeping a job flipping burgers at McDonalds the rest of their lives. Let's just make everything completely safe for everyone and put styrofoam pads on everyone and put a limit on how fast you can run. You want to play a "tough-guy" sport, but you don't want to deal with the part that makes it a "tough-guy" sport. If professional football players don't want health issues, then take a teacher's salary and have no risk of concussions. High-Risk = High-Reward. Don't cry for millions of dollars then cry when the career that pays you those millions has a down-side. exactly |
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Post by mitch on May 3, 2012 8:30:27 GMT -6
No it's not. You can get a concussion from getting hit in the facemask. That's what this conversation is about.
And how are you going to make that tackle?? Take it in the chest?
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Post by gschwender on May 3, 2012 8:30:56 GMT -6
It seems like there are huge gaps in the studies and scientific data and the conclusions of laymen. While anecdotal evidence suggests football causes concussions at a high rate "studies show". Some of the data I have seen qualify a concussion as any trauma that occurs to the brain. Where the majority of concussions documented are the same as a child jumping up and down at a fast pace or a seatbelted child in a sudden stop in a car or a child getting hit in the head with a ball on the playground etc. Also, the long term effects studies I have read have been studied for injured or diseased brains with no look at wehter the brains were pre-disposed because of genetics, lifestyle or health choices. If you look at the brain it is has an amazing abiltiy to heal and recover from severe trauma - including years of addictions, near death injuries and genetic abnormalities. Its easy to point finger now without all the info. You can't sue lifestyle choices, or genetics. Basically it boils down to the fact that lawyers and politicians ruining this country |
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Post by John Knight on May 3, 2012 8:33:40 GMT -6
The method is Chest to Chest and is being taught by every good College and High School in the country. It is safer, more effective and easy to teach. I coached Youth for a short time and have been coaching in High School for years; this is the way most schools are going.
Every clinic I have been to and every college coach I speak to endorses and teaches this method.
Before you tag a technique as ineffective or "dangerous" you should probably do your homework.
I am baffled as to why the coach didn't want to discuss various tackling techniques with the player's mom. (sarcasm, yes? ) Your 14 year old must have loved that.
And FYI, the Pros do teach it in Training Camp. However, anyone who knows Football can tell you that what you see on Sundays is probably pretty bad technique; the pros don't tackle much in practice to avoid injuries. Their tackling is mostly atrocious at best.
What many clueless TV announcers would call a "good tackle" would get our kids a correction.
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Post by mitch on May 3, 2012 8:35:41 GMT -6
How are you going to tackle that runner that doesn't run 'with his chest up'  How are you going to tell your RB to run on 4th and Goal from the 1? With his chest up? |
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Post by John Knight on May 3, 2012 8:40:48 GMT -6
Not saying there are not times when you have to get low and take out his legs, you still have to keep your head up. The thing is the NFHS says the kid leading with his head running the ball is guilty of illegal helmet contact if you do take it in the chest. Look for it to be called a lot more this next year.
Contact to and with the Helmet
Over the years, the NFHS Football Rules Committee has repeatedly emphasized the need to keep the HEAD OUT OF FOOTBALL because of the potential for catastrophic head and neck injuries. The committee – in its publications for review by coaches and game officials – has specifically targeted some form of helmet review or illegal helmet contact emphasis 24 times since 1980. In the past few years, all levels of football have increased the focus on decreasing the risk of concussion, and it is widely conceded that one of the biggest steps in this effort is to eliminate direct helmet-to-helmet contact and any other contact both with and to the helmet.
Any initiation of contact with the helmet is illegal; therefore, there must be a focus on enforcing the existing rules. These rules include fouls such as butt blocking, face tackling and spearing (all of which are illegal helmet contact fouls) as well as other acts prohibited by the provisions regarding unnecessary roughness. These types of contact, such as blows to the head by the defender, initiating contact to the head, and helmet-to-helmet contact are all unnecessary to the playing of the game. When in doubt, contact to or with the helmet should be ruled a foul by game officials.
• Making Initial Contact with the Defender while Running with the Head Down – This
act by the runner lowering his helmet to spear an opponent is not legal per Rule 9-4-3i,
but needs special emphasis to help with risk minimization.
The illegal acts noted above have no place in the game, and the committee believes that
renewed emphasis on getting illegal acts out of the game will improve player safety. When
in doubt, these acts should be viewed as illegal.
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