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Post by wingtol on Feb 23, 2012 10:41:00 GMT -6
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Post by fantom on Feb 23, 2012 11:12:04 GMT -6
Here's the thing- maybe they're right. There will be two pictures painted here:
A vindictive coach who lost patience with an ailing prospect and turned his back on him.
Or
An unrealistic parent blaming the coach and school for his son's failings.
I don't know who's right. I've seen both. Here, we'll probably circle the wagons around the coach but that doesn't mean that he's right. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.
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Post by fullhouseo on Feb 23, 2012 11:24:17 GMT -6
Sounds to me like this kid was all potential. The kid is 6'6" and 280 but didn't start as a Junior on a team that hasn't won a sectional title since 1994 and was trying out for the quick guard or tackle sounds like a kid that didn't have a spot won. That's crazy that you can sue for stuff like this. This reminds me of my story and potential. I could have played in the NFL if not for a lack of ability.
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 11:43:39 GMT -6
That the kid is a Special Education student is a wild card in this thing. Did the coach somehow discriminate against or penalize the young man for behaviors related to his "special needs"?
I find it interesting too the writer felt it germane to cite the program and coach's record of success (or lack of it).
What exactly does that have to do with whether the coach treated the player in question fairly and legally, or not?
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 11:52:21 GMT -6
Question: Did the player have a doctor's note saying he could not play? Was he cleared by a doctor and/or trainer to play? ...and if so, was there somebody playing ahead of him who was simply better? Article said the young man was "out of commission" until October. Heck our regular season ends third Friday of the month. He's missed two months and now going to come back and step in right away? |
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Post by fantom on Feb 23, 2012 12:01:16 GMT -6
That the kid is a Special Education student is a wild card in this thing. Did the coach somehow discriminate against or penalize the young man for behaviors related to his "special needs"? I find it interesting too the writer felt it germane to cite the program and coach's record of success (or lack of it). What exactly does that have to do with whether the coach treated the player in question fairly and legally, or not? They might use a poor record as "proof" that benching the player was not in the best interests of the team. |
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Post by cqmiller on Feb 23, 2012 12:02:23 GMT -6
LOL... the kid has a diagnosed injury that affects his bones. No college in their right mind would recruit him. This is why coaching is turning into a lost art. Parents want it to be like little-league where everyone puts in no effort and everyone gets a trophy.
That would be the day I become a "non-paid" GA at the closest university and high school would be done.
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Post by newt21 on Feb 23, 2012 12:07:00 GMT -6
If this case gets pushed through it will mean more and more parents will sue over PT issues. Being a teacher/coach is hard enough without all these legal battles going on.
Also, IMO a Coach isn't REQUIRED to be a contact for recruiting, just like they aren't REQUIRED to send film to colleges therefore you shouldn't be able to press charges over this. They absolutely should help and do everything in their power, but it isn't REQUIRED.
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 23, 2012 12:07:40 GMT -6
That the kid is a Special Education student is a wild card in this thing. Did the coach somehow discriminate against or penalize the young man for behaviors related to his "special needs"? I find it interesting too the writer felt it germane to cite the program and coach's record of success (or lack of it). What exactly does that have to do with whether the coach treated the player in question fairly and legally, or not? No lie, we had a kid that was sped. Parent tried to say that his IEP covered football and we had to give them a copy of our playbook so he 'study' (class notes IEP thing). Problem was, we don't have a playbook. That and the fact he couldn't play dead in a cowboy movie.... |
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Post by coachcb on Feb 23, 2012 12:09:08 GMT -6
You want to sue a coach over allegations of emotional or physical abuse? Be my guest because it's actually about the kid's well being.. There are fellows in this profession that are morons and stuff happens. A coach 40 miles down the road shook a player by the facemask until it gave him whiplash.
Sue him because he benched the kid and because of college scholarships? F- off.
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Post by bigm0073 on Feb 23, 2012 12:11:36 GMT -6
6-6 280 and does not play until his senior year? D-IA scholarships are 90% gone by October of your senior year. Kids are offered now going into their senior year.
I have a current kid HUGE 6'6" 310. Not bad.. Little timid, getting better and runs ok... He could not start for me last year. I had 5 OL all under 240 lbs start for me. None over 6'0" tall. Would have loved to have him start. Just was not good enough. Hope his parents to not get any ideas (LOL).
This lawsuit is a reach and so is that "Disease". My sophomore year I came at my High School coach with the same thing.. Hoping for some sympathy and maybe some days off in August.... He just laughed at me and told me I will be ok... And I was.
1. Lawsuit will never hold up in court. Impossible to prove and really no other precedent that I am aware of. A kid that did not start as a junior in high school is suing because he may have lost an opportunity to play in college. Really no basis... unfounded...
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Post by carookie on Feb 23, 2012 12:15:19 GMT -6
I think the problem is going to be the perception of HS football coaches in general. The media portrays (and so many blindly follow this perception) HS football coaches as mostly violent, foul mouthed, yellers and screamers whose primary role is to toughen up boys through archaic means. Heck a good friend of mine is being sued because he made kids in his PE class run as punishment, one kid fell and broke his arm and now they are portraying it as a "Jock teacher" picking on a "fat kid".
I'm not judging this specific situation, simply stating that popular beliefs can create negative impact for coaches in situations such as these.
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Post by fantom on Feb 23, 2012 12:17:55 GMT -6
If this case gets pushed through it will mean more and more parents will sue over PT issues. Being a teacher/coach is hard enough without all these legal battles going on. Also, IMO a Coach isn't REQUIRED to be a contact for recruiting, just like they aren't REQUIRED to send film to colleges therefore you shouldn't be able to press charges over this. They absolutely should help and do everything in their power, but it isn't REQUIRED. Depends on where you are. Around here a coach who said that he wasn't REQUIRED to send film to colleges wouldn't be REQUIRED to keep coaching. The last time I looked at a HC posting here assisting in recruiting was listed in the job expectations. |
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 12:19:01 GMT -6
That the kid is a Special Education student is a wild card in this thing. Did the coach somehow discriminate against or penalize the young man for behaviors related to his "special needs"? I find it interesting too the writer felt it germane to cite the program and coach's record of success (or lack of it). What exactly does that have to do with whether the coach treated the player in question fairly and legally, or not? They might use a poor record as "proof" that benching the player was not in the best interests of the team. Understood but I would think that a decent defense attorney could successfully argue that the record is irrelevant or the "benching" was at most poor judgment not rising to the level of malicious intent. |
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Post by bigm0073 on Feb 23, 2012 12:30:04 GMT -6
My question is this -
How is benching in poor judgement? If he did not start his junior year what made anyone believe he was going to start this year? Did the kid have offers at schools that we are unaware of? If that is the case you may have an argument...
What about the 5'9" 155 WR/CB you do not start now... Can he make a claim if you do not start him his senior year you are robbing him of his opportunity to play college ball? His size is not relevant in this case.. Plain and simple.
Again I look into my situation. I have a kid just like the one mentioned. HUGE, big... He probably will not start this year. We return our whole OL.
Can his parents sue me if he does not start? Slippery slope and too many holes IMO...
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 12:37:14 GMT -6
bigm, you are not accounting for the sympathetic bent of juries in such cases.
Or maybe it's down-right stupidity. Google the "Stella Awards" (named after the woman who drove with a McDonald's coffee in her lap, was burned when it spilled, and successfully sued for damages).
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Post by fantom on Feb 23, 2012 12:44:06 GMT -6
bigm, you are not accounting for the sympathetic bent of juries in such cases. Or maybe it's down-right stupidity. Google the "Stella Awards" (named after the woman who drove with a McDonald's coffee in her lap, was burned when it spilled, and successfully sued for damages). Bad example. |
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 12:49:25 GMT -6
bigm, you are not accounting for the sympathetic bent of juries in such cases. Or maybe it's down-right stupidity. Google the "Stella Awards" (named after the woman who drove with a McDonald's coffee in her lap, was burned when it spilled, and successfully sued for damages). Bad example. Wasn't an example, just point of reference. The awards come from all kinds of head-scratching judgments, fantom. They're just named for this one particularly notorious case. Read the awards (which are annual) - they're about the unpredictability of juries. Wasn't comparing the two specific suits. "Reader's Digest" used to have a regular feature about outrageous jury decisions. |
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Post by fantom on Feb 23, 2012 12:51:47 GMT -6
Wasn't an example, just point of reference. The awards come from all kinds of head-scratching judgments, fantom. They're just named for this one particularly notorious case. Read the awards, fantom - they're about the unpredictability of juries, not comparing the two specific suits. "Reader's Digest" used to have a regular feature about outrageous jury decisions. The award in the Liebeck case was eventually made by a judge, not a jury. |
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 12:59:23 GMT -6
The award in the Liebeck case was eventually made by a judge, not a jury. I think we're going sideways a little. bigm was expressing amazement that such arguments could be given credence in a court of law (whether case is decided by judge or jury). I was merely pointing out that what appears logical-common sense on the surface does not always jibe with decisions handed down - again, whether by judge or jury. The "Stella Awards" are just easily accessible examples. Not precedents or case law. |
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Post by bigm0073 on Feb 23, 2012 13:05:49 GMT -6
“(Arakelian) failed and refused to fulfill his obligations as his Guidance Counselor, which were specially needed given his dual capacity as head football coach and recruiting contact, essentially abandoning Plaintiff,” the court document says.
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Well I could be sued too... I have quite a few players who I have not sent film out on or transcripts or contacted coaches on their behalf.....
Again this lawsuit has too many holes and will get destroyed in court if it even makes it in front of a jury.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 23, 2012 13:06:37 GMT -6
If this case gets pushed through it will mean more and more parents will sue over PT issues. Being a teacher/coach is hard enough without all these legal battles going on. Also, IMO a Coach isn't REQUIRED to be a contact for recruiting, just like they aren't REQUIRED to send film to colleges therefore you shouldn't be able to press charges over this. They absolutely should help and do everything in their power, but it isn't REQUIRED. Depends on where you are. Around here a coach who said that he wasn't REQUIRED to send film to colleges wouldn't be REQUIRED to keep coaching. The last time I looked at a HC posting here assisting in recruiting was listed in the job expectations. Same here. It is now part of all the jobs I have seen posted. Who would you expect to do it if the coaches are not required to? |
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Post by fantom on Feb 23, 2012 13:06:56 GMT -6
That case is kind of a hot button to me because it's often misrepresented to show the "stupidity" of juries. The actual facts in the case don't make the situation look as foolish.
The case probably isn't going anywhere and shouldn't. I juust wouldn't dismiss the possibility out of hand.
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 13:20:54 GMT -6
That case is kind of a hot button to me because it's often misrepresented to show the "stupidity" of juries. The actual facts in the case don't make the situation look as foolish. The case probably isn't going anywhere and shouldn't. I juust wouldn't dismiss the possibility out of hand. Understood, and agreed. |
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 13:25:47 GMT -6
Just to play the "conspiracy theorist":
According to the article this Football coach as well as many others in Somerville athletic department are under pressure.
Could it be that young man's parents were convinced to file this suit by some looking for a way to drive final nail into coach's coffin?
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Post by coachcb on Feb 23, 2012 13:34:29 GMT -6
Just to play the "conspiracy theorist": According to the article this Football coach as well as many others in Somerville athletic department are under pressure. Could it be that young man's parents were convinced to file this suit by some looking for a way to drive final nail into coach's coffin? The same thought crossed my mind.. They have money to waste on a lawyer so they might as well just use it to run the coach out. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 23, 2012 13:41:07 GMT -6
I was thinking along these lines:
We'll go to court and sue you for actual and punitive damages $200,000, but will settle for $20,000 and send sonny boy to prep school.
What do you think the district lawyer will suggest to the school board?
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Post by fantom on Feb 23, 2012 13:58:30 GMT -6
Just to play the "conspiracy theorist": According to the article this Football coach as well as many others in Somerville athletic department are under pressure. Could it be that young man's parents were convinced to file this suit by some looking for a way to drive final nail into coach's coffin? The same thought crossed my mind.. They have money to waste on a lawyer so they might as well just use it to run the coach out. I don't know. The money is to be made from the school district, not the coach. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 23, 2012 14:34:01 GMT -6
Here's the thing- maybe they're right. There will be two pictures painted here: A vindictive coach who lost patience with an ailing prospect and turned his back on him. Or An unrealistic parent blaming the coach and school for his son's failings. As with most things..probably a little bit of both. 1) Kid that big not having a bunch non binding offers going into his Sr. year... signal. 2) Osgood-Schlatter is usually in younger kids. Signal--on both sides. Coach sees it as a toughness issue, but potentially could be a bigger health issue. 3) Kid out for 2 MONTHS with essentially an overuse issue. One of my 10 YEAR OLD GIRL students was diagnosed with OS..and so she sits out of PE class to rest so that she can compete in her gymnastics meets. (Ortho is a family friend of mine..love that guy! ) It is in situations like these that I really wish we could set up a reality TV situation, and then turn the parents against each other. Remember, some OTHER kid got an opportunity to play because this boy was out. Would LOVE to have the plaintiff's parents explain to THOSE parents why their kid should get to play after he sat out August and September. |
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Post by 1ispread on Feb 23, 2012 14:42:37 GMT -6
Didnt read the entire post, not going to read the post, probably shouldnt post a reply but.........no matter who is right, the coach or the parent, I dont care. Its stupid filing a lawsuit over how much playing time you get playing a GAME. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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