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Post by spreadattack on Feb 23, 2012 14:45:24 GMT -6
I don't know who is right or wrong about whether the kid should have played or the coach was vindictive. BUT -- you don't have any grounds to stand on to sue for playing time. Playing on the football team is not a legal right. Let's say you have a kid with bad breath. He's very good, runs a 4.3 40 yard dash, moves like Barry Sanders. But hey, he stinks up the locker room and you sit him on the bench. Let's say you actually cut him from the team! He can't sue you or the school for lack of playing time. (The only caveat here is if the school or district has some kind of policy guaranteeing playing time or the ability to be on the team.) In the absence of those, it's no dice. What people try to hang this on is to try to show damages in the form of, say, a lost scholarship opportunity. But that's way too speculative. It's like a bad Friday Night Lights plotline, not a grounds for a lawsuit. Again, maybe the coach deserves to be reprimanded, but don't get worked up over the legal aspects here. Not a leg to stand on. For a somewhat famous example of this, former NYC Mayor and Presidential Candidate Rudy Giuliani's kid was kicked off the Duke golf team and tried to sue for similar reasons. He got nowhere fast. blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/03/31/andrew-giulianis-suit-a-shank-into-the-woods/www.newsobserver.com/2010/03/30/414192/giulianis-duke-golf-lawsuit-dismissed.html
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 23, 2012 15:32:19 GMT -6
I don't know who is right or wrong about whether the kid should have played or the coach was vindictive. BUT -- you don't have any grounds to stand on to sue for playing time. Playing on the football team is not a legal right. Let's say you have a kid with bad breath. He's very good, runs a 4.3 40 yard dash, moves like Barry Sanders. But hey, he stinks up the locker room and you sit him on the bench. Let's say you actually cut him from the team! He can't sue you or the school for lack of playing time. (The only caveat here is if the school or district has some kind of policy guaranteeing playing time or the ability to be on the team.) In the absence of those, it's no dice. What people try to hang this on is to try to show damages in the form of, say, a lost scholarship opportunity. But that's way too speculative. It's like a bad Friday Night Lights plotline, not a grounds for a lawsuit. Again, maybe the coach deserves to be reprimanded, but don't get worked up over the legal aspects here. Not a leg to stand on. For a somewhat famous example of this, former NYC Mayor and Presidential Candidate Rudy Giuliani's kid was kicked off the Duke golf team and tried to sue for similar reasons. He got nowhere fast. blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/03/31/andrew-giulianis-suit-a-shank-into-the-woods/www.newsobserver.com/2010/03/30/414192/giulianis-duke-golf-lawsuit-dismissed.htmlI guess it is only fair that we all speculate on the law...considering how many times lawyers have speculated on our craft ;D (not directed at any poster here..but to ALL of us in general) Spread--not quite sure those have the same context as the case there. That case involved a player being recruited..and then kicked off the time because of alleged behavior issues of someone over 18 and a private university. This case apparently involves an injured person under 18, a public school, and alleged "bullying" and lack of duties by an adult. Not saying the outcome should be any different, but in a court of law...the facts do seem very different. Our speculation is parallel to fans saying we should have ______ the ball instead of ________ the ball on 4th and 1 because we didn't pick up the 1st. That said, what concerns me most about this case is that the underlying issue seems to be "toughness". We have had several long threads discussing "toughness", how to instill it..how to coach it etc. This case seems to be (rightly or wrongly) a coach being accused of not accepting or not tolerating a kids lack of toughness....
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Post by coachcb on Feb 23, 2012 15:54:48 GMT -6
Back in '03, the parents of a stud TE filed an injunction against a state HOF coach, barring him from talking to schools recruiting their boy. He was just honest with the recruiters, telling them that the kid was lazy, didn't lift and had a bad attitude.
Funny thing was, they completely hamstrung their boy. Colleges saw what was going on and dropped the kid off of their recruiting lists. The coach in question is a friggin legend in this state; he's been around and winning for decades. They had no idea who they were screwing with. He went from having full ride scholarship offers to every single PAC-10 school to walking on at the 1AA level.
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2012 17:22:18 GMT -6
Didnt read the entire post, not going to read the post, probably shouldnt post a reply but.........no matter who is right, the coach or the parent, I dont care. Its stupid filing a lawsuit over how much playing time you get playing a GAME. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Maybe, but the world we all live in as teachers-coaches, and none of us are immune to it.
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Post by lionhart on Feb 23, 2012 19:41:54 GMT -6
this story is from NJ, where i live. the major issue that is being left out, which is being discussed heavily in our state coaching circles...... is that the coach is the kids guidance counselor. so forget the fact that a football coach is not required to contact colleges on behalf of one of his players, a guidance counselor IS. so even though as a COACH he may be not responsible, some people believe he was negligent in his duties as a GUIDANCE COUNSELOR. either way, there HAD to have been a better way to resolve this than the current route taken by the kids parents.
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Post by veerman on Feb 24, 2012 12:11:23 GMT -6
#5: Cole Bartiromo, 18, of Mission Viejo, Calif. After making over $1 million in the stock market, the feds made Bartiromo pay it all back: he gained his profits, they said, using fraud. Bartiromo played baseball at school, but after his fraud case broke he was no longer allowed to participate in extracurricular sports. Bartiromo clearly learned a lot while sitting in federal court: he wrote and filed his own lawsuit against his high school, reasoning that he had planned on a pro baseball career but, because he was kicked off the school's team, pro scouts wouldn't be able to discover him. His suit demands the school reimburse him for the great salary he would have made in the majors, which he figures is $50 million. This was a case in 2003.
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Post by fantom on Feb 24, 2012 12:21:22 GMT -6
#5: Cole Bartiromo, 18, of Mission Viejo, Calif. After making over $1 million in the stock market, the feds made Bartiromo pay it all back: he gained his profits, they said, using fraud. Bartiromo played baseball at school, but after his fraud case broke he was no longer allowed to participate in extracurricular sports. Bartiromo clearly learned a lot while sitting in federal court: he wrote and filed his own lawsuit against his high school, reasoning that he had planned on a pro baseball career but, because he was kicked off the school's team, pro scouts wouldn't be able to discover him. His suit demands the school reimburse him for the great salary he would have made in the majors, which he figures is $50 million. This was a case in 2003. How did it go? Did he win? Did he even get to court?
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Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2012 12:30:17 GMT -6
I see the guidance counselor angle being an issue. But as a coach I can see the coach's perspective. Kid was a senior, hadn't played the entire year...injury or whatever...team was 5-4, kid was coming back with only 3 games left...I would have continued to play an underclassman too. As far as the recruiting aspect - we all know the deal but it seems to me that there was a clear break down in communication between the coach and parent with regards to recruiting. But that's also why you have to keep the closely involved - especially if you know they are THOSE types of parents. I don't know how they could sue him as a guidance counselor. I mean, what did the guy do? Tell the kids he couldn't go to college? Did he refuse to give FAFSA forms or college applications?
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Post by dhooper on Feb 24, 2012 12:54:15 GMT -6
It happen to me. The players dad was the local judge in town also. The courts threw it out.
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Post by lionhart on Feb 25, 2012 6:10:51 GMT -6
the plot thickens gentlemen.... coach was officially fired by the district yesterday. there HAS to be more to this than what is being reported.
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