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Post by kcbazooka on Jul 23, 2011 7:39:32 GMT -6
many of us have guidelines that we want the kids to get in a certain amount of summer workouts before the season starts. How do you deal with the kid who have a legitimate reason for not being there all summer -- we have two freshmen who both live with their Dads out of state (divorced situation). They leave as soon as school is out and don't return until just before two-a-days.
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Post by lochness on Jul 23, 2011 7:59:46 GMT -6
See if you can talk with the Dad and ask him to help you make sure the kids are doing some work. Provide the kids with a journal so they can record what they're doing, and have the dad sign-off on it. It may not be 100%, but it will make you feel better about them not being there.
Here's an even worse one: We have a freshman player who was good enough to get some Varsity time last year on special teams and defense. For some reason, his parents are AGAINST any kind off-season workouts. They flat out refuse to let him participate in any strength or conditioning activity. He's been to a few camps, but that's about it. Talking with the parents is not an option. They've accused US and our seniors of "harassing" the kid already, and have said "if this is going to continue, there are plenty of other fall sports besides football."
Sweet, huh?
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Post by blb on Jul 23, 2011 8:05:09 GMT -6
Cut 'em.
j/k
nessie - ah, the joys of coaching HS sports, eh?
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Post by emptybackfield on Jul 23, 2011 8:22:13 GMT -6
See if you can talk with the Dad and ask him to help you make sure the kids are doing some work. Provide the kids with a journal so they can record what they're doing, and have the dad sign-off on it. It may not be 100%, but it will make you feel better about them not being there. Here's an even worse one: We have a freshman player who was good enough to get some Varsity time last year on special teams and defense. For some reason, his parents are AGAINST any kind off-season workouts. They flat out refuse to let him participate in any strength or conditioning activity. He's been to a few camps, but that's about it. Talking with the parents is not an option. They've accused US and our seniors of "harassing" the kid already, and have said "if this is going to continue, there are plenty of other fall sports besides football." Sweet, huh? If you ran a no-huddle spread offense, this wouldn't be an issue.  |
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Post by lochness on Jul 23, 2011 8:26:34 GMT -6
See if you can talk with the Dad and ask him to help you make sure the kids are doing some work. Provide the kids with a journal so they can record what they're doing, and have the dad sign-off on it. It may not be 100%, but it will make you feel better about them not being there. Here's an even worse one: We have a freshman player who was good enough to get some Varsity time last year on special teams and defense. For some reason, his parents are AGAINST any kind off-season workouts. They flat out refuse to let him participate in any strength or conditioning activity. He's been to a few camps, but that's about it. Talking with the parents is not an option. They've accused US and our seniors of "harassing" the kid already, and have said "if this is going to continue, there are plenty of other fall sports besides football." Sweet, huh? If you ran a no-huddle spread offense, this wouldn't be an issue. Touche, my good man...   |
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Post by emptybackfield on Jul 23, 2011 8:38:47 GMT -6
HAHA, I couldn't pass that one up boss. I've never heard of a parent being "anti off season workout", we've had our share of ones that didn't think they were all that important. However, what you're dealing with is crazy.
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Post by blb on Jul 23, 2011 8:42:05 GMT -6
I think it was Ben Franklin who said,
"God is great, beer is good - people are crazy!"
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Post by tango on Jul 23, 2011 9:10:39 GMT -6
What if you DC has a son that will be a Fr. and does not believe Fr. are mature enough to life weights and he is also one of the PE teachers. Also, your school only has one former NFL player and he does not believe in lifting weights at all. You do not play with refrigerators on your back.
Our two biggest problems are divorced parents and church camp as far as getting them all to workouts at the same time.
We have a kid thats dad signed the release but mom will not and they have joint custody. Looks like they are going to court and the kid just stands with me at practice and workouts all summer.
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Post by airraider on Jul 23, 2011 9:20:03 GMT -6
I will have 5 kids miss our first week of full pads practice due to family vacations/church camps/at other parents house... etc..
What can you do?? Just roll with it I guess... and be more upfront about it next summer.
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Post by blb on Jul 23, 2011 9:22:34 GMT -6
Several years ago a dad (later murdered while displaying large poster of aborted fetus across street from HS, which he did regularly around town) called to tell me they didn't lift weights when he played (late sixties) and won conference championships.
Consequently his son, who could've played at next level, drank beer (or did worse) most of summer, was hurt a lot, never reached his potential. And unfortunately some of his classmates followed his lead.
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Post by wolfden12 on Jul 23, 2011 10:48:22 GMT -6
in your specific situation, we have also encountered over the years. We simply let athlete and parent know of our workouts and conditioning. We provide them with everything and give them the responsibility to carry out this assignment while away from the team. If they choose to come back weaker, slower, out of shape, etc. They know where they stand. The most important thing is to make sure parent and player know the expectations while away.
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Post by teddymac44 on Jul 23, 2011 14:14:50 GMT -6
Tango you have an Ex-NFL guy on staff that doesn't believe in lifting? WTF he must have been really fricking good, HA HA.
Lochness you have to cut the kid that is really not fair to the other kids that bust their ass all summer and that kid is sitting at home playing XBOX! This is the ultimate team sport if they don't want their kid to learn valueable lessons in team work than go buy them a racquet and enjoy the great sport of Tennis!
We have a 3 week dead period that runs from July 18-Aug 8th and we tell parents very early in Jan can you schedule your vacations during that period. Of course there are 3 or 4 that don't but we tell kids you will have to make up time missed or you will not play. You can miss 2 summer workouts/7 on 7/practices. Anything over that has to be made up.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2011 14:36:49 GMT -6
One thing to remember on the vacation thing: just because we coaches tell them when a good time to vacation is...doesn't mean the employers of those parents are giving them the same dates  |
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Post by blb on Jul 23, 2011 15:25:00 GMT -6
One thing to remember on the vacation thing: just because we coaches tell them when a good time to vacation is...doesn't mean the employers of those parents are giving them the same dates Very good point. Organizers of County Fair have yet to contact me about when best time for them to hold their event is, either. |
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mcrsa75
Sophomore Member
Posts: 116
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Post by mcrsa75 on Jul 23, 2011 16:21:24 GMT -6
Coach, I would advise you to step back and look at the entire picture of your off season program. Your off-season starts, I assume, in January. You have SEVEN months (Jan - July) to prepare your players for the upcoming season. Often, I suspect that many coaches wait until the summer to overemphasize training. How much stronger can you really get by lifting only in June & July? Also, I am starting to question if 7-7 is overemphasized. As discussed on other posts, 7-7 studs do not always translate into success on Friday night. Have many different coverages do you really see on the HS level?
I see other coaches are suggesting that you cut the kid. Can you do that, legally, in your district? Is it really fair to punish a kid for factors beyond his control (divorce, work by necessity). Do you really want to punish a kid that may be participating in some type of advanced academic program who happens to be a great athlete?
Finally, what about the kid that participates marginally in the off-season program but is your best athlete? It is easy to cut the 3rd string dead weight but will you hold the the stud to the same standard? These are just a few things to think about.
What are some solutions?
First, ask yourself what and how do you define your program? I would rather have a team characterized by discipline, hard work and dedication (average talent) versus a group of primma donnas in which the world has told them they are major prospects. I find that the latter group is characterized by a) less commitment to team versus individual goals, b) poor work ethic, and/or c) overall selfish attitude. I will not lose the support of the whole team just to meet the needs of a talented few.
Next, I would establish some benchmarks/parameters/goals in which the players must meet in order to qualify for the upcoming season (i.e. 75% participation/strength/speed improvement/ other sports). You are giving players an opportunity to achieve this goal between Jan - July but you are cognizant of situations (work, vacation, job)that prevent a player from working out. Do you really want a player who does not bother to meet your standards within this SEVEN month time-line regardless of talent level?
I apologize for the long winded post but this area has been a point of contention for me. I am giving a few of my thoughts.
MCRSA75
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Post by fballcoachg on Jul 23, 2011 16:22:55 GMT -6
We all would love to be able to have 100% attendance but I think you have to be flexible. There is a huge difference between a kid that can't make it and a kid that refuses to go. The problem comes when you talk about how important the offseason is and a kid comes in last minute and is still the best option by far. You have to use your best judgement, maybe rib the kid a little, but some things are out of their control and I consider family vacations to be one of those things, hard to tell mom what you are going to do when you are living in her house! And your specific situation, what can you do besides be understanding, it's their family, work with them when you have them.
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Post by k on Jul 23, 2011 16:23:52 GMT -6
Talking with the parents is not an option. They've accused US and our seniors of "harassing" the kid already, and have said "if this is going to continue, there are plenty of other fall sports besides football." Sweet, huh? Bye. Go play soccer... The kids who live out of state? I agree with keeping the journal log. Including pre-summer and post-summer max tests. |
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Post by k on Jul 23, 2011 16:26:29 GMT -6
We have a kid thats dad signed the release but mom will not and they have joint custody. Looks like they are going to court and the kid just stands with me at practice and workouts all summer. Same thing happened to my best friend in high school. He hasn't spoken to his mom since because of it. |
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Post by champ93 on Jul 23, 2011 19:16:37 GMT -6
The situation with the kids spending their summer with their out-of-state fathers is a non-issue. First, they're with a parent, through a court ordered decision and unable to make your workouts. You can't win that battle, don't know if you'd want to even fight it. Second, these kids are freshmen--do you want to lose them for career by alienating them? Encourage them (in the future) to follow the previously suggested journal concept. A conditioning test would be appropriate if they were forewarned.
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Post by tango on Jul 23, 2011 21:03:26 GMT -6
The former NFL player was never a coach with us but you can imagine the influence he has on the community. He worked as an assistant with some NFL Europe teams and has scouted for at least two NFL teams. I do not work at that school now. God is good.
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Post by blb on Jul 24, 2011 6:51:53 GMT -6
Why would you condemn the kid and by extension punish the team for his parents' ignorant attitudes? |
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Post by fantom on Jul 24, 2011 7:02:01 GMT -6
Why would you condemn the kid and by extension punish the team for his parents' ignorant attitudes? Freshmen get a little more leeway with me but I'm not happy about a parent threatening to pull the kid if we keep asking him to come to conditioning. After this year I'm going to keep asking. If the parent considers it harrasment and wants to explore other fall sports so be it. I won't cut him but his parents might. |
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Post by silkyice on Jul 24, 2011 7:56:03 GMT -6
Why would you condemn the kid and by extension punish the team for his parents' ignorant attitudes? What if they won't let hime come to Monday practices during the season? Or Tuesdays? Or decide that the he can't play against a rival because he could get hurt or is in the school play or has to go out of town that weekend? I hate to punish a kid because of parents. But the question really isn't the parents. Is the kid there or not is the question. |
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Post by blb on Jul 24, 2011 8:03:35 GMT -6
Your administration and-or BOE would support you cutting a kid before practice starts because his parents won't allow him to participate in non-mandatory off-season activities?
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Post by silkyice on Jul 24, 2011 9:09:58 GMT -6
Your administration and-or BOE would support you cutting a kid before practice starts because his parents won't allow him to participate in non-mandatory off-season activities? I have been head coach at four different schools (two private, two public). Everyone of them absolutely would have backed me on that and in fact have. Actually, they would have been disappointed if I didn't. Got to love Alabama. |
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Post by tango on Jul 24, 2011 9:36:36 GMT -6
I do not work at that school now. Home town guy and had worked at the school for around 20 years. He was a very good coach on the field but I didn't trust him. The entire staff were from this town except me and it was always me against them when it came to something they didn't want to do. So I got out.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 24, 2011 10:58:25 GMT -6
Coach, I would advise you to step back and look at the entire picture of your off season program. Your off-season starts, I assume, in January. You have SEVEN months (Jan - July) to prepare your players for the upcoming season. Often, I suspect that many coaches wait until the summer to overemphasize training. How much stronger can you really get by lifting only in June & July? Also, I am starting to question if 7-7 is overemphasized. As discussed on other posts, 7-7 studs do not always translate into success on Friday night. Have many different coverages do you really see on the HS level? I see other coaches are suggesting that you cut the kid. Can you do that, legally, in your district? Is it really fair to punish a kid for factors beyond his control (divorce, work by necessity). Do you really want to punish a kid that may be participating in some type of advanced academic program who happens to be a great athlete? Finally, what about the kid that participates marginally in the off-season program but is your best athlete? It is easy to cut the 3rd string dead weight but will you hold the the stud to the same standard? These are just a few things to think about. What are some solutions? First, ask yourself what and how do you define your program? I would rather have a team characterized by discipline, hard work and dedication (average talent) versus a group of primma donnas in which the world has told them they are major prospects. I find that the latter group is characterized by a) less commitment to team versus individual goals, b) poor work ethic, and/or c) overall selfish attitude. I will not lose the support of the whole team just to meet the needs of a talented few. Next, I would establish some benchmarks/parameters/goals in which the players must meet in order to qualify for the upcoming season (i.e. 75% participation/strength/speed improvement/ other sports). You are giving players an opportunity to achieve this goal between Jan - July but you are cognizant of situations (work, vacation, job)that prevent a player from working out. Do you really want a player who does not bother to meet your standards within this SEVEN month time-line regardless of talent level? I apologize for the long winded post but this area has been a point of contention for me. I am giving a few of my thoughts. MCRSA75 I think you need to realize that there are different types of summer workouts. Some states allow much more than others, for example we have been in helmets and shoulder pads since July 5th for our workouts. Little bit different for us if a kid misses a lot of workouts since we are doing lots of stuff besides lifting, basically practice without contact. Our guys work their butts off in the off-season lifting and conditioning but come our "summer conditioning" it's basically like OTA's in the NFL. So I would bet that some of these guys are talking about more than lifting and playing two hand touch in the summer. |
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Post by hamerhead on Jul 24, 2011 11:37:10 GMT -6
-Jesus only saved 11 out of 12 Priceless. Possibly sacrilegious, but awesome nonetheless. Unfortunately, in the situation I coach in I'm not sure the parents couldn't just go to their friends on the board and get the head coach fired if he was doing things they didn't like. In fact, I've seen it happen. By all accounts, administrations hands were tied. Sometimes its not a matter of if the administration will support a coach, but can they without losing their own jobs. |
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Post by tvt50 on Jul 24, 2011 12:29:57 GMT -6
We dont try to run off freshman. But we do have cuts on the JV and Varsity levels.
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Post by eghscoach on Jul 24, 2011 13:23:57 GMT -6
Don't cut them - make them cut themselves. Those who did not come, give them a strenuous conditioning test which they do not receive equipment till they pass - ala Albert Haynesworth. Make them attend EVERY px and watch and then do hard conditioning supervised by the "drill sergeant" on your staff after. They skip a px - they quit and are done. Those who did not come much, give them a bunch of extra conditioning after every practice for a wile, and possibly not allow them to play in pre-season game/scrimmage. You have to demand and draw a line in the sand, but demand within the rules!
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