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Post by dubber on Mar 18, 2007 21:45:35 GMT -6
Guys, tell me how important you think this is.
*Tony Franklin spread guys (and regular spread guys) talk about getting those basketball players out to play.
*Get your wrestler kids out.
*Get that starting pitcher to throw the pigskin for you.
The other side of the coin is the non-athletes:
*Skateboarders (hellacious special teams members!)
*Big Lugs standing around the hallways
*Kids with anger issues that need an aggression outlet
It is becoming more and more necessary for us to recruit kids and get them to come out and play football. Fighting two things really: specialization in sport (so stupid---it's HS, let the kids play, most NFLers were three-sport guys in HS) and the "MTV-fight-Authority-not-because-I-believe-in-something-but-because-I-am-lazy-and-self-centered" attitude. To combat this, we try get the kids involved a little and see if they pick it up.
Of course, you can't sacrifice discipline:
*kids need to attend class, make good grades, and be respectful *kids cannot be cancers on the team *kids must work hard or learn to work hard *must be coachable
Some coaches say, "I only want the kids that really want to play, if I have to recruit a kid he;s probably not that in to it, and probably won't be that good"
Just interested on what everyone thinks about this.
Also, if you do recruit kids, how do you do it? What are some ways you get kids out to play football?
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Post by CVBears on Mar 19, 2007 0:07:08 GMT -6
In the classes that I teach, if I see/build a rapport with a kid that I think might be able to do some good on the gridiron, I always ask what sports they play. Why don't you play football? I think you would be great at it!!! etc. etc. Just have to make sure that the coach is upfront and honest with the "recruit" on campus. Getting them out to practice is only half of the battle; you still have to keep them there.
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zexx14
Sophomore Member
Every failure carries with it the seed for an equivalent or greater success
Posts: 169
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Post by zexx14 on Mar 19, 2007 9:41:00 GMT -6
My Belief in recruiting within our school stems from an incident which occured many years ago. An outstanding athlete was recommended to me by a Phys. Ed. teacher. We sent him a letter telling him to give football a try and to come to our meeting. The young man showed up and after the meeting I spoke with him. "Why didn't you try out for football before?" The response startled me. "Coach, no one ever asked me before". The young man made 2nd team all-league as a senior.
Don't be afraid to ask them to play.
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Post by tvt50 on Mar 19, 2007 9:46:24 GMT -6
Here is one question that never fails, "Are you a football player?". If they say no. I move on.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 9:53:15 GMT -6
One of the inner-city High schools here has a big population of Immigrant Sudanese kids. The Sudaneses live in the largest public housing project nearby and have several churches that sponsor them to move here to escape the oppression/persecution and war in their country. You would get a resounding "no" from them if you asked that question. But of the handfull of Sudaneses that have gone out, they can flat out play. Very tall and very athletic, terrible to stereotype but I have about 25 of them playing in my youth program. They can play and are very ferocious, really neat kids with great stories. Now baseball, thats another story LOL.
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Post by ajreaper on Mar 19, 2007 10:39:51 GMT -6
It never hurts to ask or encourage a kid to play- if they say no you are right where you were before with nothing invested if they say yes you could have yourself a diamond in the rough. Also sometimes getting a kid out from a little different click (skaters etc.) may open the doors to gain others as well. A kid need not live eat and breath football to help a team out.
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Post by tcm57 on Mar 19, 2007 10:41:48 GMT -6
Coach: I believe recruiting is a must to build/sustain a program. We took over a program with the longest losing streak in our state 6 years ago and the first thing we did was implement a recruiting stategy...
Our recruiting program is divided into three categories: immediate recruiting, short-term recruiting, and long-term recruiting. The following is our breakdown to help us build a consistent and solid foundation:
Immediate Recruiting: (Returning Players/On Campus Students) • Individual interviews • Strength & Conditioning program • Team meetings • Athletes in other sports (Basketball/Track/Wrestling specifically) • Football players as recruiters (peer pressure/program promotion) • Correspondence
Short-Term Recruiting: (Middle School Athletes) • Lincoln Eighth Grade Program • Little All-American/Pop Warner • AAU Teams • Middle School Flag Program • Jr. High Camp • Jr. High Coaches Clinics • Special Game Nights • Halftime Scrimmages • ‘Ball boy for a game’, ‘Recruits of the Week’, Varsity sidelines, etc. • Attendance at football practices/games • Attendance at basketball, wrestling, track, baseball games/practices • Correspondence: recruit letters, ‘attaboys’, etc. • Team apparel • Game passes • Newsletters • Team web site (team recognition) • Coaching/parental contacts, School P.E. teachers
Long-Term Recruiting: (Grade School Students) • Future Rails Camp • YMCA Flag Program • Basketball, jr. wrestling, baseball leagues • Attendance at events • Correspondence • Game passes • Coaching/parental contacts
This has helped us turn a perennial doormat football program into back-to-back conference champions and playoff participants. Hope this helps.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 10:50:04 GMT -6
Some guys just feel embarrassed asking a kid to play, they dont want to get turned down etc. At Nebraska thats what drove off some of the long time assistants, they just got tired of recruiting players ( selling) and getting turned down and ignored by 17-18 year old kids.
At the youth level we are always recruiting and we dont care what the kid looks like, we want em all to give football a try. Wherever the coaches are at we want them to have one of our flyers in hand, the good ones dont just hand out the flyer so it gets tossed in the trash, they get the kids parents name address phone etc. I got a huge 12 year old a few years ago 190 lbs, at a baseball game. I asked him why he hadnt played football till now, he said same thing "no one asked me", he introduced me to his mom and that was that. He started on our select team at Guard his first year ( too big per rules to carry the ball). I saw this year he played varsity at a school of 2,600 and even scored a TD at fullback as a freshman. The team he played for went deep into the playoffs. Moral of the story, you never know and it only bruises your ego to ask and we ask everyone.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 11:15:15 GMT -6
Im going to pass the post of the Iowa guy on to 2 HS coaches I know are having problems getting kids, that makes a bunch of sense.
It helps that he has taken a down program to the top. Thats what I can sink my teeth into, premise, how to do it, hard results. Why reinvent the wheel?
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Post by brophy on Mar 19, 2007 11:20:41 GMT -6
I believe kids are clay. Even if they tell you they know, you can spend 30 minutes with them and convince them otherwise.
All teenage boys know is that they like girls and they really have no idea WHO/WHAT they are. Everything else is up for grabs.
The kids that NEVER go out for football are the same kids 4--6 years later that regret that decision. Coaches HAVE to recruit the hallways. You don't have to comprimise anything you do, but you do have to make an effort to GET BETTER (IMO) because you were hired to serve the BEST INTERESTS OF THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM for your school (not the best interest of what's convenient for me). If you are in a position where you don't care who comes out, then you are in the 1% minority in HS athletics, because it's ALL about whats in the cupboard come Friday night.
We find a LOT of kids who "Need football more than football needs them".And afterall, that is really our whole point. It takes different triggers for each kid - that is the challenge of really "coaching". Some kids want to be everything, some kids are happy to play a specific role, but you can never have enough bodies / options on the field.
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Post by coachmacplains on Mar 19, 2007 11:25:40 GMT -6
I never have a problem asking kids, and now and then you need to be a bit persistent. However, I also don't want prisoners. If a kid comes out only at the behest of someone else "twisting his arm", then you are asking for problems if his experience isn't what he wants. And that is the point: A team sport is for a team, not for some kids' individual enjoyment. The real challenge, to me, is painting a picture for them whereby they are intrigued about wanting to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Not always an easy task in a self-saturated society.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 11:51:29 GMT -6
it's ALL about whats in the cupboard come Friday night. Guess if thats the case the teams dont even need coaches LOL. I see upsets all the time, the team with less talent winning games around here anyways. Seems thats why some coaches make Big $$ and spend lots of time studying film and refining schemes and techniques in the offseason. Coaching matters, otherwise we wouldnt be here trying to get better LOL.
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Post by brophy on Mar 19, 2007 11:59:05 GMT -6
The whole point of "recruiting" is for every 100 people you ask, you're going to get 1 good kid back. Whatever you do, it all boils down to the best 11 on the field on a given play. It's our job to find and equip those 11.
"That's right, mom....your boy would be a GREAT addition to our football team. It will teach him self-discipline, self-esteem, teamwork, and a great work ethic. .....right here in River City!"
recruit players, parents, boosters, and administrators.
True HS coaching has about 5% real "football" involved.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 19, 2007 12:17:12 GMT -6
Dave... think the comment brophy made about "what's in the cupboard" wasn't about getting good players and not having to coach them. think it was more about, the better the player already, then add the coaching, the better the team.
obviously, we aren't gonna have a bunch of "10's" as players. Say we got a bunch of "5's". However, let's say great coaching within a great scheme/program can add 3 points to our players. So, we now have a bunch of 8's (with maybe a 9, or 10). but, if we can recruit us some 6's or 7's ... THEN coach them up we got our 10's that will help us win the whole shooting match.
wouldn't want anymore to misunderstand, recruiting players doesn't mean who don't have to coach them. you are merely trying to add to the cupboard --- only as strong as the weakest link
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 12:52:32 GMT -6
I agree with your statement. Im in a different boat, as a youth coach our job is to get as many kids out for football as we can and to make it fun, teach them sound fundamentals and retain them so they can gain the benefits of playing the game. We want to make sure they make it to the HS level and not drop out like 70% of youth players do. Ive found in coaching kids over the last 15 years and having my own 400+ kid Org the last 9 years the kids have to play on teams that are competing in order to get retention levels at over 90%. So we have invested heavily in making our coaches better and now have them all run a set scheme and practice methodology. Our numbers have improved dramaticly since doing so as we improved our coaching, scheme and competitiveness, our numbers improved dramaticly. I used to have coaches that thought the only way they could compete was to recruit the best players and if they didnt they wouldnt have very good seasons. That was their priority, we moved off that mind set and it has reaped us nice rewards since doing so.
The post "its ALL about whats in the cupboard" in my mind and maybe mistakenly was that the team with the best talent wins ( whats in the cupboard), ALL in my mind means ALL important to the exclusion of other factors. IMHO and its just my opinion based on my personal experience, logic and the experience of others was that there are many factors to success its not ALL about whats in the cupboard. Players are of great importance,however Ive seen coaches with great teams being outcoached and losing including myself. IMHO there are other factors, scheme matters, tech matters, game plan matters, play sequencing matters, coaching priorities matter, community support matters., no one thing is the critical success factor. BTW there is an EXCELLENT X and O coach here locally, guy is brilliant. He took a team with just 28 kids on it, Omaha South and beat a Huge Private School with Tons of talent, facilities and huge numbers, Creighton Prep running his Veer Offense. But they guy refuses to do any recruiting, so it takes effort in all above areas. He will never have great W/L record until he decides one of the key factors is also getting kids out instead of X and Oing every team to death ( which he does very well). It takes everything and thank goodness coahing matters, otherwise we wouldnt be here and they would let someone from the stands coach the game LOL.
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jwp
Freshmen Member
Posts: 22
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Post by jwp on Mar 19, 2007 12:58:41 GMT -6
Too many coaches get caught up in being an X and O guru. Yes that is important, you need to be sound, creative, etc. But it sure doesnt matter if you cant get kids to go hard and be tough.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 13:11:57 GMT -6
Do coaches play a part in getting players to go hard and play tough? Can players be coached up to do so?
Sure it helps to have a bunch of wrestlers on your team LOL.
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CoachJ
Junior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 19, 2007 13:17:33 GMT -6
EVERYONE recruits players at the HS, if the rules in the town/city allow it. They may not do so openly, but behind close doors, everyone is a recruiter.
I coach a youth team we have several HS coaches talk to our kids every year. They pull them aside at camps, or in some cases make "in home" visits. I find out about it usually from parents, but with open enrollment, it is everywhere. Several coaches have reputations for "not being recruiters" but they are.
At our level we recruit, but usually that is an invitation to come play for us. I don't speak negatively about other teams. For the most part they do that with their play. The other good teams in town are coached by fine coaches and I would let my son play for them.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 13:25:21 GMT -6
My former HS has a HC that refuses to recruit, I give them our mailing lsit and the INDy sheet on every player, his photo, position, demographics etc They NEVER come to any of our games ( sunday is film breakdown day for them) and I know for a fact they are not contacted with the exception being a letter that is sent out to all incoming 9th graders to come to summer weights. When I said this coach was a great X and O guy and terrible recruiter, I meant it. His exact words " If they want to come to this school they will come, Im not recruiting them". Some guys are like that, iots too bad because he is a very good coach in the other areas. Man Ive tried to help him out here and he loses so many of our kids because of it.
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jwp
Freshmen Member
Posts: 22
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Post by jwp on Mar 19, 2007 13:51:53 GMT -6
It is absolutely the coaches responsibility to get players to go hard. Effort is coachable. It is also the coaches responsibility to instill toughness, that is through practice habits, offseason, mentality of the program, etc. Its about expectations and demanding that they be met.
Not really sure about the wrestler comment?
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Post by brophy on Mar 19, 2007 13:56:43 GMT -6
The post "its ALL about whats in the cupboard" in my mind and maybe mistakenly was that the team with the best talent wins ( whats in the cupboard), ALL in my mind means ALL important to the exclusion of other factors. IMHO and its just my opinion based on my personal experience, logic and the experience of others was that there are many factors to success its not ALL about whats in the cupboard. I am assuming we are all with the understanding that it doesn't matter what the coach knows, but what the players who play the game know. Players making plays is what wins games. Players that are equiped with assignments and fundamentals and athleticism are more inclined to make plays than those that are not. Each play comes down to the 11 on the field being better than the other 11 on the field. Players need to be set up for success on each and every play. A dirt-ball player with no athletic skill needs more tools than the 4.3 phenom. “Some coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 260-pound tackles. They'll give me plenty of wisdom.”- Chuck Noll
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Post by tog on Mar 19, 2007 13:58:40 GMT -6
It is illegal for us to recruit in Texas High school public schools.
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Post by brophy on Mar 19, 2007 14:07:40 GMT -6
It is illegal for us to recruit in Texas High school public schools. you can't recruit in your own HS?
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 14:17:38 GMT -6
Coaches are responsible for putting that knowledge and technique into the minds of the players. Players make plays to win games, coaches set priorities to make sure the right amount of emphasis is being put ino the right areas so the players understand how to make plays. each play takes 11 kids doing a job, not one playmaker. Coaches put kids into a scheme and game plan that is appropriate for that unique set of individuals and for that specific unique matchup for that week, unique scheme vs unique scheme, unique grouping of players vs unique grouping of players. The coach gathers data and is responsibel for makig those decisions. Assignments and fundamental knowledege of players is directly related to the quality of the coaching they are recieving. We all would like to have great players but every week we see teams that do not have the best talent winning games. Did de La Salle have the best talent in 176 of the games they won in a row? They were probably better a lot of the times but my guess is they won a bunch where they werent. Don Markham took a 1-9 team and the first year out of the gate they went 14-0 and scored 880 points, etc Did he do a much better job than the guy befroe him or did his kids just all of a sudden start making a bunch of plays? There are times great playcalling or a timely called stunt makes the difference in a game, the players execute it, but who designed it/ Who taught it correctly and then who called it in the game? Most games dont come down to that, but some do. If it didnt matter much, there would be no need for headsets or guys up in the booth. thik of al the money schools could save. Think of studying game film and coming up with game plans, if it was all about making just plays you just go out and play and hope your best player makes a play IMHO.
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Post by tog on Mar 19, 2007 14:22:38 GMT -6
It is illegal for us to recruit in Texas High school public schools. you can't recruit in your own HS? Oh yeah, we recruit like crazy in our own school. But other schools, or younger kids from elsewhere, no it's illegal.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 19, 2007 14:22:49 GMT -6
Seems like we're all in agreement ... get players out, get the best players you can. teach/train/coach them the best you can. get them to execute within a sound system. get them the skills to be able to make plays consistently. put your best players (those you've trained well) in positions to make plays.
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Post by brophy on Mar 19, 2007 14:23:33 GMT -6
Coaches are responsible for putting that knowledge and technique into the minds of the players. Players make plays to win games, coaches set priorities to make sure the right amount of emphasis is being put ino the right areas so the players understand how to make plays. each play takes 11 kids doing a job, not one playmaker. Coaches put kids into a scheme and game plan that is appropriate for that unique set of individuals and for that specific unique matchup for that week, unique scheme vs unique scheme, unique grouping of players vs unique grouping of players. The coach gathers data and is responsibel for makig those decisions. Assignments and fundamental knowledege of players is directly related to the quality of the coaching they are recieving. We all would like to have great players but every week we see teams that do not have the best talent winning games. Did de La Salle have the best talent in 176 of the games they won in a row? They were probably better a lot of the times but my guess is they won a bunch where they werent. Don Markham took a 1-9 team and the first year out of the gate they went 14-0 and scored 880 points, etc Did he do a much better job than the guy befroe him or did his kids just all of a sudden start making a bunch of plays? There are times great playcalling or a timely called stunt makes the difference in a game, the players execute it, but who designed it/ Who taught it correctly and then who called it in the game? Most games dont come down to that, but some do. If it didnt matter much, there would be no need for headsets or guys up in the booth. thik of al the money schools could save. Think of studying game film and coming up with game plans, if it was all about making just plays you just go out and play and hope your best player makes a play IMHO. tomato, tomatoe Where I'm from, when we win, the players get all the credit, when we lose, the coach takes all the responsibility. The burden of leadership. The hours scouting, preparation, organization, discipline, teaching, etc is synonymous with coaching.
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Post by superpower on Mar 19, 2007 14:31:24 GMT -6
Guys, tell me how important you think this is. *Tony Franklin spread guys (and regular spread guys) talk about getting those basketball players out to play. *Get your wrestler kids out. *Get that starting pitcher to throw the pigskin for you. The other side of the coin is the non-athletes: *Skateboarders (hellacious special teams members!) *Big Lugs standing around the hallways *Kids with anger issues that need an aggression outlet It is becoming more and more necessary for us to recruit kids and get them to come out and play football. Fighting two things really: specialization in sport (so stupid---it's HS, let the kids play, most NFLers were three-sport guys in HS) and the "MTV-fight-Authority-not-because-I-believe-in-something-but-because-I-am-lazy-and-self-centered" attitude. To combat this, we try get the kids involved a little and see if they pick it up. Of course, you can't sacrifice discipline: *kids need to attend class, make good grades, and be respectful *kids cannot be cancers on the team *kids must work hard or learn to work hard *must be coachable Some coaches say, "I only want the kids that really want to play, if I have to recruit a kid he;s probably not that in to it, and probably won't be that good" Just interested on what everyone thinks about this. Also, if you do recruit kids, how do you do it? What are some ways you get kids out to play football? I will encourage kids to play, but I WILL NEVER BEG A KID TO PLAY! Once a coach begs a kid to play, that kid thinks the coach owes him something or that he is better than the other players. If I have to beg a kid to play, I doubt that I can count on him when it really matters. Fortunately I am at a school where football is still king, so we get good numbers because the football players are basically the coolest guys in the school.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 14:35:08 GMT -6
Same here, as Tyrone Willingham put it to us in DC " If we lost its my responsibility, it is my fault. I will take the heat for any mistake my players make" We lost for the first time in 3 years this last year and we had a few small mental errors that cost us an OT game that featured some very unusual officiating. I told the players to point at me, that no one but me was to blame for the loss, not them not the officials etc etc and we would learn from it. We did, did us all good.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 19, 2007 14:37:41 GMT -6
Fortunately I am at a school where football is still king, so we get good numbers because the football players are basically the coolest guys in the school.[/quote]
My guess is you gusy are winning. Once you start winning the recruiting gets easier, probably much harder to do when you first started there.
I take my hat off to all the guys that bring a school up from the bottom.
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