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Post by davishfc on Jun 20, 2011 11:55:30 GMT -6
Do you do anything to prepare your kids for those 7 on 7s before you go? Like an hour or two the week of? Or is the first 7 on 7 kind of the preparation for the second? Do you emphasize more of your playaction game at the 7 on 7s or is there equal emphasis on your playaction and quick game packages?quote] Nope, just go out about half hour early and after quick warm-up, throw routes vs. air and walk-thru review coverages-pass drops vs. formations briefly. Then we coach 'em up during the 7-on-7, because frankly teaching-review is only reason we do them, not competition. I do not believe in doing PAP or even 3-step DBP in 7-on-7. So we just do our ROP and DBP, make sure all the kids get equal reps. I know 7 on 7s would benefit us from a defensive perspective greatly because we are a man coverage team. Having our kids be able to work against other teams ones would help them develop tremendously over the summer. I like the fact that you're at those 7 on 7s as review rather than competition. How do you sell your kids on that to reduce the frustration when things aren't going well? And they're usually not going well because the defenses cheat so much. We're just so run heavy on offense, I'm trying to see the benefit and having a hard time. Do you feel like you would be better served as a Houston veer team to work on meshes and pitches rather than the routes, which you said, aren't even PAP? Now I've never seen a game of your's but isn't your veer package and the associated playaction what you want the kids repping? Or do you just emphasize that during your 3-day camp? We run speed option and veer from the gun and our summer commitment is geared toward working those snaps, meshes, and pitches. We also rep communicating our audibles so everyone is on the same page. Our passing game is basically our playaction package so I don't see the benefit of throwing into coverages where LBs are getting into their pass drops on run action. JMO.
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Post by ajreaper on Jun 20, 2011 12:59:02 GMT -6
I personally find "competative" 7 on 7 a joke and a waste of time- if you use it to teach your schemes rather then focus on "winning" you certainly can gain a lot from it but so many coaches are concerned about "winning" at 7 on 7 and consequently you see the 7 on 7 offenses and defenses. These are things so fundamentally unsound they have no value in actual football. An example, several years ago we were an I based offense and within our package we ran an open formation- no TE at all so I guess an I spread might describe it best. Our opponent kept only his MLB in the box and had his OLB splitting the distance between the box and our slot or WR. Clearly if this was "real" football we'd run at that till the cows came home and if you stayed in that defense we'd rush for about 500 yards- 7 on 7 defense with no application to real football. I think good coaches get good value on 7 on 7 because they use it in a way thats compliments their scheme and teaches fundamentals and techniques they'll actually use in the fall- be it offensively or defensively.
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Post by fantom on Jun 20, 2011 13:02:55 GMT -6
I personally find "competative" 7 on 7 a joke and a waste of time- if you use it to teach your schemes rather then focus on "winning" you certainly can gain a lot from it but so many coaches are concerned about "winning" at 7 on 7 and consequently you see the 7 on 7 offenses and defenses. These are things so fundamentally unsound they have no value in actual football. An example, several years ago we were an I based offense and within our package we ran an open formation- no TE at all so I guess an I spread might describe it best. Our opponent kept only his MLB in the box and had his OLB splitting the distance between the box and our slot or WR. Clearly if this was "real" football we'd run at that till the cows came home and if you stayed in that defense we'd rush for about 500 yards- 7 on 7 defense with no application to real football. I think good coaches get good value on 7 on 7 because they use it in a way thats compliments their scheme and teaches fundamentals and techniques they'll actually use in the fall- be it offensively or defensively. That's why I hate tournaments. Guys are competitive. I've seen good coaches go in with a plan but the plan goes out the window when they have a chance to win and the juices get flowing.
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Post by coachbdud on Jun 20, 2011 13:02:59 GMT -6
When I saw the title of this thread... only 1 thing came to mind
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Post by veerman on Jun 20, 2011 21:10:47 GMT -6
IMO if you go to a tourney of 7-7 and don't know what your about to get and complain its your own fault. Get with coaches in your area and get a league up where the score is not kept anywhere but in heads and does not matter if you win or loose, that at any moment play maybe stopped so coaches can walk thru certain aspects they see they need to correct. If everyone is on board with just trying to get better then 7 on 7 is something that can be a big positive. We were a SBV team and still got good work. As far as summer things go I will repeat what I said earlier, different teams have different ways they can go about their summer and be successful. As far as struggling programs goes and doing a lot, I look at it this way, NO it may not change the outcome of the season, but at least you can look yourself in the mirror and say that I did everything I could to help make the team better. Yes IMO every little thing helps, some may help more than others, and some may not be worth the time spent for the results in some people's opinion. Its almost like anything else in football, its not what offense or defense you run, there is a 1000 ways to do things, just like summer programs.
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GregH
Freshmen Member
Posts: 60
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Post by GregH on Jun 20, 2011 21:59:29 GMT -6
I really don't get the negative view of 7 on 7. You don't think your QB gets better by throwing to receivers running routes with defenders trying to pick off passes. I want my receivers catching balls on the run. I think they'd get better running anybody's routes, and I don't care what kind of defense they run. Your defensive backs don't get better by dropping into coverage or playing man? For most of us, it's not mandatory. It's fun. If you do it one day a week with an occasional weekend tourney, they won't get burnt out. Heck I used to play sandlot football several days a week in the summer. So some other coaches get into winning a tourney. There's nothing wrong with some competitive juices flowing.
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Post by groundchuck on Jun 21, 2011 5:30:50 GMT -6
We go to 7on7. We run our routes. We are a wishbone team....and at 7on7 we line up in the wishbone and run our routes. We also get into twins, pro, and trips but we'll do that in games too. I prefer 7on7 for the defensive practice our kids get learning where to drop, look for work, and help on routes.
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2011 5:55:34 GMT -6
blb, Have you always maintained this philosophy regarding the summer commitment within your program? Yes. In fact, except for the out-of-town camp which we discontinued, we're actually doing more now than when I was younger - didn't use to do any 7-on-7, gave kids all of June off for basketball-baseball (started conditioning etc. after July 4).
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2011 6:09:35 GMT -6
I like the fact that you're at those 7 on 7s as review rather than competition. How do you sell your kids on that to reduce the frustration when things aren't going well? And they're usually not going well because the defenses cheat so much. We're just so run heavy on offense, I'm trying to see the benefit and having a hard time. Do you feel like you would be better served as a Houston veer team to work on meshes and pitches rather than the routes, which you said, aren't even PAP? Now I've never seen a game of your's but isn't your veer package and the associated play action what you want the kids repping? Or do you just emphasize that during your 3-day camp? We only go against coaches (friends of mine) with same philosophy. We tell kids why were doing it and what our objectives are. Tell QB if everybody's covered, run it. Don't practice throwing interceptions. Running option-PAP obviously not an issue in 7-on-7 and of course receives a lot of attention at our camp. PAP waste of time in 7-on-7 for obvious reasons unless that's all you do. 7-on-7 allows us to teach pass coverages-drops against different offenses, also saves time reviewing our ROP-DBP patterns. Frankly if we were still doing the second, out-of-town camp (where we did three afternoons of 7-on-7s) we wouldn't be doing any at all.
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2011 6:20:14 GMT -6
I have seen a lot of administrators that are under the impression that the summer stuff IS what makes a program successful. I do think that the summer makes a program successful but it's the S&C part of it that does it. fantom, I agree with that statement but with following caveats: 1. Difficult to make significant strength gains in two months (unless of course that's only time some kids lift at all). That's why strength training should receive its greatest emphasis from end of previous season through school year. 2. Have seen proclamations from Ohio State (years ago) and Nebraska (more recently) that you can get kids in "condition" (meaning running) for Football in three weeks. That obviously means don't need to do it for two months prior. 3. While there is some value to helmets-only, non-contact skill work in the summer however you do it - it's just not real Football. Everything changes when you put the pads on, including throwing and catching (not just the element of hitting).
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Post by John Knight on Jun 21, 2011 6:42:47 GMT -6
I agree 100%, blb!
Don't try to surf!!!
Great Advice!!!!
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2011 6:51:29 GMT -6
Huh? You lost me, john - please explain.
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Post by davishfc on Jun 21, 2011 10:57:36 GMT -6
blb, Have you always maintained this philosophy regarding the summer commitment within your program? Yes. In fact, except for the out-of-town camp which we discontinued, we're actually doing more now than when I was younger - didn't use to do any 7-on-7, gave kids all of June off for basketball-baseball (started conditioning etc. after July 4). Thanks for the input Coach. I guess I was just curious if the summer commitment within your program had evolved over time or stayed relatively consistent. Obviously, from what you said, the commitment has become greater over the years.
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2011 11:16:22 GMT -6
Obviously, from what you said, the commitment has become greater over the years. Only from this standpoint: As I said, only reason we do any 7-on-7s is to replace those we lost when we dropped the out of town camp. Earlier I was at a school where basketball coach went first three weeks right after school, was done by July 1. Since we shared a lot of athletes (enrollment 650) I deferred to him and started after July 4. Not to mention I think kids need a break from me or at least my voice once school's out, and so do I. Next job I took had a trainer-equipment guy who opened weight room at night in summer, so I did it in morning until we started formal workouts (three weeks before start of season). My last job they started workouts immediately after school ended and had had some success so I continued that practice. Job I am at now we do not have S&C classes in school whereas 6-7 of our opponents do, so I feel the need to spend more time in the summer to "catch up". Besides, being retired now - what else do I have to do? Otherwise I'd go back to old practice of starting after July 4.
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2011 17:39:03 GMT -6
You know, one thing I've always felt was important was that I wanted our kids fresh (especially legs) and eager to hit on game night.
Not sore, tired, beat up, mentally or emotionally exhausted.
Why do we coaches not think about that before season even starts?
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Post by John Knight on Jun 21, 2011 18:03:51 GMT -6
Goes with the video clip above blb.
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Post by blb on Jun 21, 2011 18:32:29 GMT -6
Goes with the video clip above blb. So, you're Matthew McConaughey, and I'm Jason Segel? I'm seriously not sure if you were being sarcastic or satirically agreeing. May be my Halftimer's acting up again.
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Post by coachks on Jun 21, 2011 18:37:41 GMT -6
I can't think of many better ways to destroy enthusiasm than those marathon session 4-ways and tournaments. They're long (hours), they invovle dead time, their hot and by the end everyone just wants to go home.
In my opinion, burnout is usually due to long-duration events that are a grind to get through, not a nice and tidy hour long scrimmage.
Nobody likes wasted time, not even kids. Don't bring them out and have them wait for opponents, stand on the sideline, lollygag, take 5 water breaks ect. and log about 30 plays in an hour. It's boring.
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Post by John Knight on Jun 22, 2011 9:47:41 GMT -6
I agree with you blb. I just love the video clip from that goofy movie. He sounds like golf instructors I have watched!!!!
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Post by gdf on Jun 25, 2011 7:40:39 GMT -6
We're in a situtation where we've adopted the less is more philosophy. Even given kids most of June off for basketball. One problem we've seen, is that we lose contact with some of these kids and don't see them again until camp starts. What do you guys do to remind them before/during the summer of the importance of these workouts?
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Post by blb on Jun 25, 2011 7:58:48 GMT -6
We're in a situtation where we've adopted the less is more philosophy. Even given kids most of June off for basketball. One problem we've seen, is that we lose contact with some of these kids and don't see them again until camp starts. What do you guys do to remind them before/during the summer of the importance of these workouts? We used to send them a letter week before Workouts started, if they didn't show up first week call them. Sent them another letter week before our Camp, and another week before practice started. Included some kind of motivational message-reading with each letter too.
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Post by fbcoach33 on Jun 25, 2011 12:16:04 GMT -6
Just curious if this has happened to anyone else, we use to do a couple a summer, now we do just one with a local school for about an hour with several coaches from each side being refs" , one of the big reasons we cut back was we got a couple of kids injured in these things, went to a couple of tournaments and our kids and others started getting very physical and a couple of kids got lit up on crossing rts etc. and we had one broken bone, and a couple of severe sprained ankles because we were playing in some remote lawn on the university that had gopher holes all over it. we decided it wasnt helping us for the risk we were taking, we do our own at our school after lifting, we can work on our stuff, we use our linemen for defense, its not perfect but beign a flexbone team we can line our kids up in a defense that we will actualley see and have them react a bit more like what we will see, vs seeing linebackers lining up at 7 yards and Dbs at 15 vs our flexbone look. We get quite a few more reps and we can keep it safer.
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GregH
Freshmen Member
Posts: 60
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Post by GregH on Jun 25, 2011 22:34:23 GMT -6
I can't think of many better ways to destroy enthusiasm than those marathon session 4-ways and tournaments. They're long (hours), they invovle dead time, their hot and by the end everyone just wants to go home. In my opinion, burnout is usually due to long-duration events that are a grind to get through, not a nice and tidy hour long scrimmage. Nobody likes wasted time, not even kids. Don't bring them out and have them wait for opponents, stand on the sideline, lollygag, take 5 water breaks ect. and log about 30 plays in an hour. It's boring. After reading so much negative talk about the evils of 7 on 7 tournaments, and I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, I can't help but think that it is the coaches themselves that are tired of spending time at these tournaments. I just returned from one in St. Louis, and I assure you, our kids had a great time. Yes, it was long (9 to 4:30 or so). Our kids went home tired, but they were not bored. Now, I'll tell you we want this to be fun so we release our running backs rather than have them stay in the backfield and block. We don't go under center at all, though we do it 40% to 50% of the time during the season. Occasionally some of our kids play out of position so I have cards with the pass patterns for them. Oh, and we try to win. These are all the type things I've seen criticized in this thread. I'm confident that we, especially our QB, get better in our once-a-week 7 on 7 league and once-a-summer passing tournament. Kids throwing passes with others trying to stop them just naturally improve. Kids dropping into coverage in any organized manner and trying to stop an offense are naturally going to get better. I understand a run heavy team is going to have an disadvantage on offense in 7 on 7, but your players can still benefit if you don't let the ego thing prevent them from having fun.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jul 7, 2011 13:31:44 GMT -6
I agree that coaches get bored during 7 on 7. As a linebacker coach, I know that I did. Only so many times I can watch my guys drop into coverage and when you are taking a hundred reps during a tournament, guys will inevitably make mistakes so i had to keep everything in perspective. I also realize that we are going to be blitzing a heck of a lot more during a game than during a 7 on 7 tourny, but I don't want to lessen the kids confidence so we'll play our base coverage a bit more.
I've heard offensive guys complain about cover 2 man, but I loathe the delay routes that teams run during 7 on 7 or when the running back runs right through the a-gap for a route.
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