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Post by coachmacplains on Jan 26, 2006 21:06:33 GMT -6
I'm sort of piggy backing on another thread here. I'd be interested to know what others have in your states regarding a so-called "mercy rule",k and what your thoughts are. In South Dakota, below the big school 11 man ranks, there is a 45 point rule that kicks in at any point from halftime on, at which point the game is over. I have consistently opposed this rule for the following reasons: 1. It is not a "mercy rule". In my experience, some coaches use it as a motivator...sort of like a merit badge. IE, if you make a goal out of putting a "45" on the other team. 2. The kids come out to play, not walk off the field early. 3. Communities, especially small ones like we have here, use the game on Friday as a central social occasion. Does it not discourage attendance if the town's team is down this year and may not make it past haltime. Why does the farmer or rancher make that trip into town when it's over early?
I have been on both sides of it, but it really puts the team that is up in a quandry. I play as many kids as I can, but you tell them to play hard if they're in there and if they block a punt for a score (happened with us once), interception, whatever, the game is over. I'd be interested in others' input on this.
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Post by airman on Jan 26, 2006 21:11:41 GMT -6
the game should not be ended, just a running clock IMO.
let the game play out and get the kids to play.
wisconsin as a 35 point running clock rule. I know some coaches like to use that as motivation.
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Post by wildcat on Jan 26, 2006 21:17:53 GMT -6
In Illinois, it is a running clock in the second half after a 40 point lead has been established.
I've been on the business end of a few of those...not too fun!
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Post by beatdown on Jan 26, 2006 21:23:35 GMT -6
In Oklahoma its 45 points at half or after for 8 man; for 11 man its a running clock at the referee's and both coaches discretion (I think)
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 26, 2006 21:26:43 GMT -6
in texas the only mercy rule is for 6-man games -- anytime after the 1st possession of the 2nd half for the team down by 45 (if a team is down by 45 at halftime, they will receive the opening kick to start 2nd half. if they don't score... game over)
for the rest of us in 11-man ... just take that ass kickin and get ready to play again next week.
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Post by coachnorm on Jan 27, 2006 8:07:07 GMT -6
Kansas is basically the same as Texas. 45 points after half for 8 man, no rule for 11 man.
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Post by pegleg on Jan 27, 2006 8:18:02 GMT -6
no rule in texas, but if both coaches agree they can go to a running clock.
3 years ago we were beating dallas pinkston 50-0 at half and had a running clock in the second half.
mutual descion of the HCs.
Holla
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Post by kcbazooka on Jan 27, 2006 8:18:20 GMT -6
Missouri is 35 points after half -- have been on both sides of it and i guess I think its a good rule. If its more than a 35 point margin neither team gets much out of it. The losing team usually keeps its good kids in and the winning team feels with such a big lead they need to take out their starters - I've seen some injuries occur in that instance.
also agree that some teams use it as a motivation - One of Missouri's state champion teams would bragged that it "turbo clocked" every team on their schedule ...
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Post by coachnorm on Jan 27, 2006 8:24:03 GMT -6
The year I coached 8-man in Kansas 8 of our 9 games ended early on the point rule. We won 3 of those, but I will admit my philosophy was "I've only got 10 kids to play with. If we can end a game early and not get somebody hurt we're going to."
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NCcoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 112
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Post by NCcoach on Jan 27, 2006 8:57:24 GMT -6
FREEDOM!!!
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Post by coachpeterson on Jan 27, 2006 9:21:13 GMT -6
I don't like the idea of ending the game because the score reaches a certain point. Having a running clock once the game gets out of hand is a good idea, in my opinion, but not ending the game completely. And yeah, it's used for motivation, but I think having that happen and ending 50-0 is better than having teams beat teams 80-0.
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Post by 53defense on Jan 27, 2006 9:58:42 GMT -6
In North Dakota, if the lead is 30 points or greater in the second half, the clock starts running automatically except for change of possesion. I have been on both sides of this running clock and the part that I like is once the clock starts running, you can at least have a chance to get some of your younger players in for experience. The starters on either side pretty much understand that once the clock starts running, they are going to get pulled.
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Post by coachmacplains on Jan 27, 2006 12:33:49 GMT -6
I agree that running up scores is not desirable. My objection to the policy, and calling it a mercy rule, is that it isn't really mercy. Teams that have a run-it-up mentality will operate just the same, and the fallout is that kids have to walk off the field early.
I am a 9 man coach and have also been on both ends. Our kids have the mentality that the game is 48 minutes, so let's play it out. The injury aspect is, in my mind, maybe the most compelling argument, but if that is the rationale, why don't we shorten blowouts in other sports? I am not aware of a movement afoot to shorten basketball games (heresy in some places), soccer, etc. to prevent injury. I do empathize, though, with the 10 player situation - been there and done that - and understand the desire to stay as healthy as possible. I do like the flexibility that mutual HC consent gives. Now that seems a more common sense solution.
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Post by kcbazooka on Jan 27, 2006 14:03:15 GMT -6
nobody is going to get hurt if a second team is playing a first team in basketball or soccer but it could definately happen in football. Our head coach would definately not take out his starters when we were getting beat by the 35 point rule. He was very concerned about not getting shut out. We scored vs their JV - guess that was a moral victory.
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Post by ocinaz on Jan 27, 2006 14:35:34 GMT -6
In Arizona, only the 2A Conference has a 42 point mercy rule. 1A, 3A,4A, and 5A don't, kinda wierd.
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Post by runtheball86 on Jan 27, 2006 19:21:09 GMT -6
No mercy rule in Connecticut ... some referees take it upon themselves to go to a running clock ... when we are ahead we will take it on ourselves to slow things down ... when we are behind we dont want a running clock...we need to use those games, too, to teach our guys how to play and how to use the clock to our advantage.
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Post by firebird on Jan 28, 2006 10:05:22 GMT -6
It turns out that in AZ 2A we have to complete a half. Then you must wait through the halftime and take the field for the 2nd half coin toss for the officials to officially stop the game.
We happened to get "42 pointed" one time in the first half. Halftime was the longest 12 minutes of my life.
Personally I don't like "mercy" rules. I have been on both sides of it and don't like the message it sends to the kids (if you'r down, quit). I would rather unload the bench and let the kids that never see the field get some PT (whether ahead or behind).
Unfortunately you have coaches that will keep their starters in until the very last snap. There is one successful program in the state that is known to keep starters in the entire game (for stat purposes), have their ball carries run out of bounds inside the 5, and then kick field goals on 1st down. Personally I think this is more degrading than just scoring the TD.
My opinion is play the game out, put your 2nd team in, and run your offense and defense. If you score, you score. I also agree with airman that if you are a passing team it is okay to put in your subs and throw the ball. Wing T teams put in subs and run bucksweep and it is deemed okay since they are running the ball. The only thing is, that is what they do best.
Just my take on it. I hope I didn't offend anyone.
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Post by gmccown on Jan 28, 2006 10:36:06 GMT -6
I'm actually kind of in favor of a rule allowing the game to be called at the request of the HC's. We were very good last year and there was a game where we had all our subs in and couldn't stop scoring. The other coach realized this and was very forgiving afterword, but he did remark he would have liked to see the game stopped after the 3rd. I think if it's bad enough the loosing coach request the game stopped the he shoudl get that request.
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Post by lochness on Jan 28, 2006 11:13:52 GMT -6
We have no such rule here, and I'm very thankful for that.
There is an unwritten rule that scores that begin to get out of control are managed by substitutions and playcalling of honorable coaches, not by some dictated rule. All of the coaches in our division are EXCELLENT at respecting one another and keeping things in control.
It also gives younger kids on both teams the opportunity to get in and play in a "varsity football" setting, and that can be an important impact for those younger guys.
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Post by coachdawhip on Jan 28, 2006 11:55:55 GMT -6
lochness,
wht do you do when your younger kids(9th grade) and beat there starters??
We beat 2 teams 76-0 and 69-0 in our divison and the starters played one series, before we had the mercy rule.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 28, 2006 15:16:39 GMT -6
I dont know why I never brought this up before but...it just occurred to me I guess...consider a soccer game...its INFINIATELY HARDER to score in that commie game than it is in football and if the score hits 11 or 12-0 I dont think anyone complains...but football, a game that scoring comes much easier...thatd be 77-0 and folks would complain...I say, "first one to a hundred wins!" and let the crying stop.
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Post by lochness on Jan 29, 2006 18:15:07 GMT -6
Coach,
Not sure to answer that. It's very competitive here, so we've never had to deal with that situation. I guess at that point, you start letting O-line guys carry the ball and run A gap dive every play!!
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Post by phantom on Jan 29, 2006 18:27:59 GMT -6
no rule in texas, but if both coaches agree they can go to a running clock. 3 years ago we were beating dallas pinkston 50-0 at half and had a running clock in the second half. mutual descion of the HCs. Holla That's what we do in Virginia. |
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Post by runtheball86 on May 25, 2006 10:42:04 GMT -6
We have been beaten pretty badly some years but I have never wanted a running clock .. our guys need to learn how to play the game and that usually happens in the second half when the other coach (if he is honorable) puts in players we can be more competitive with. Had to ask a ref last year NOT to keep the clock running so that our guys could play the whole game ....
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Post by wingtol on May 25, 2006 12:34:02 GMT -6
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Post by swarm2ball on May 25, 2006 14:32:48 GMT -6
I can't wait to see what the rules of football will be in the northern "blue" states in 20 years. Lets see.......3 practices per week, no longer than 1 hour, every kids must have 150 snaps per season, QB's can not be tackled, no more than 2 players can tackle a ball carrier at one time, coaches will not be able to yell over a certain decible (they will be given shock collars), parents have say about who plays where, no two-a-days.....um yeah give me a break.
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Post by blb on May 25, 2006 15:42:01 GMT -6
Actually, what Bowden told Holtz was: "You can't coach but one team and that's yours. If you don't like what happens, get better players, coach better, or change the schedule."
Or as Nick Hyder (Valdosta, GA) told coaches that whined: "It's not my job to stop my offense - it's yours"; and "It's not my kids' fault you've got a bad football team."
And men, I am not unsympathetic. I've been on both sides of the scoreboard about even.
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Post by phantom on May 25, 2006 18:23:03 GMT -6
I thought the Connecticut rule might have been a joke until Dan Patrick spent most of his show talking about it. Dumbest idea I've ever heard. So, you're up 47-0 and your 3rd team LB picks off a pass and has a chance to score. He's supposed to run out of bounds?
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Post by airman on May 25, 2006 18:30:37 GMT -6
the year is 2015, the national federation adopts a new score managment policy.
when a team is up by 35 points or more, the losing team will no longer have to go 10 yds to get a first down. they will retain possession of the ball. if they cannot make 10 yds, the refs we continue to award as many downs as nessary for them to score or for them to feel good about themselves. upon scoring or feeling good about themselves, both teams will embrace in a group hug and sing peace songs, denouce the violence football has towards woman,.
in the year 2035, score keeping will not be allowed. wins and losses we be awarded based on effort. groupe hugs, diversity and gender taining will be manditory of all coaches and at least one female must be on staff. a peace/peer mediator must be on all staffs, this will be from the department of peace, a new federal cabinate level position.
2045, football will be gender neutral. boys and girls will play togthers, oh i forgot to tell you, contact will be elminiated in 2025. players will still wear helmets and pads but flags will be on their waists.
peace, kum bi yah.
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Post by runtheball86 on May 25, 2006 21:34:29 GMT -6
There used to be a bowl game ... all-star type (North-South, etc.) ... where if the team that scored was still behind by more than two touchdowns it received the kickoff instead of having to kickoff ...
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