bighit65
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Make a statement without saying a word.
Posts: 397
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Post by bighit65 on Apr 13, 2011 18:58:08 GMT -6
After reading about the story of Nebraska's Blackshirt tradition I was wondering if anyone does anything like that. I was thinking about maybe having skull and crossbones helmet stickers for defensive starters to put on the back of their helmets. Or do you think that we'll hear the " everyone gets one or no one does argument? We are a smaller school and always complain of no competition at positions. Once a kid is named a starter the other kid vying for the spot concedes the playing time. I am hoping this might help. Like maybe you can lose your sticker and someone else that takes your spot can get it. Thoughts?
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Post by bluedevil4 on Apr 13, 2011 19:11:41 GMT -6
I would rather award them to players who have contributed well to the team, or have met a team requirement of some kind. Sometimes those second and third stringers might make a big contribution on scout teams, or filling in for a player, or who have just flat out worked harder than some of the starters.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Apr 13, 2011 19:17:57 GMT -6
By setting standards that anyone can achieve (not just starters) it gives confidence to players who might never be starters. They'll work harder knowing they can achieve the same goals as the starters. Sometimes you get a starter who just doesn't work as hard as everyone. There is something about having 11 glorified players and a bunch of un-recognized back-ups that doesn't seem right. I'd rather have everyone feel a sense of glory and recognition.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 13, 2011 19:52:41 GMT -6
After reading about the story of Nebraska's Blackshirt tradition I was wondering if anyone does anything like that. I was thinking about maybe having skull and crossbones helmet stickers for defensive starters to put on the back of their helmets. Or do you think that we'll hear the " everyone gets one or no one does argument? We are a smaller school and always complain of no competition at positions. Once a kid is named a starter the other kid vying for the spot concedes the playing time. I am hoping this might help. Like maybe you can lose your sticker and someone else that takes your spot can get it. Thoughts? I don't think that is a particularly good idea, and I don't know if it will give you the results you want. A few things to keep in mind: 1) NEB's blackshirt free safety (or any position, just used this for the discussion) was probably the best player on his H.S football team. Probably a multiple year starter on Varsity. Almost certainly won district and maybe state/county honors. The guy backing him up---was probably ALSO the best player on his HS team. Probably ALSO a multi year starter on Varsity, also almost certainly won district and maybe state/county honors. The 3rd string guy....you guessed it. He too was probably an all district/county player who started multiple years and was the best player on his team. Moral of the story--ALL of them can ball. Doesn't sound like the situation you are describing. 2) in front of the crowds, all the Huskers are wearing the same red jerseys, with the same red N on white helmet.
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bighit65
Junior Member
Make a statement without saying a word.
Posts: 397
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Post by bighit65 on Apr 13, 2011 19:59:59 GMT -6
What are some ideas that promote competition at positions then? Our guys seem to think that it's ok to not work hard because numbers are low so they'll see the field anyways. I guess that I am trying to make everyone work harder and be more prepared.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 13, 2011 20:13:06 GMT -6
What are some ideas that promote competition at positions then? Our guys seem to think that it's ok to not work hard because numbers are low so they'll see the field anyways. I guess that I am trying to make everyone work harder and be more prepared. My playing situation was similar... and I am ashamed to say I wasn't much different Looking back, I think that one thing that could have helped would have been to change the focus of competition. Coaches could have constantly, I mean CONSTANTLY harped on the fact that you are competiting against THOSE GUYS...not THESE guys. Have game films playing in the weight room in the offseason- -and I wish the coaches would have been more negative with us..challenging us and our "manhoods" Hey Johnny..you just got driven 3 yards back on that play.. look at that. Hey Billy, look at #17 just outjump you for the ball here. ... do we want a repeat of that? No? good...lets go to work (and then go to work).
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Post by fantom on Apr 13, 2011 21:10:54 GMT -6
[td][/td] What are some ideas that promote competition at positions then? Our guys seem to think that it's ok to not work hard because numbers are low so they'll see the field anyways. I guess that I am trying to make everyone work harder and be more prepared. My playing situation was similar... and I am ashamed to say I wasn't much different Looking back, I think that one thing that could have helped would have been to change the focus of competition. Coaches could have constantly, I mean CONSTANTLY harped on the fact that you are competiting against THOSE GUYS...not THESE guys. Have game films playing in the weight room in the offseason- -and I wish the coaches would have been more negative with us..challenging us and our "manhoods" Hey Johnny..you just got driven 3 yards back on that play.. look at that. Hey Billy, look at #17 just outjump you for the ball here. ... do we want a repeat of that? No? good...lets go to work (and then go to work). Absolutely right. The kids need to understand that they're trying to beat the other guys. What's the point of going out for football just to be a starter? The idea is to win and to do that you have to be better than the other guy. Those other guys are working to get better than you.
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Post by John Knight on Apr 14, 2011 4:54:46 GMT -6
Have game films playing in the weight room in the offseason- -and I wish the coaches would have been more negative with us..challenging us and our "manhoods" Hey Johnny..you just got driven 3 yards back on that play.. look at that. Hey Billy, look at #17 just outjump you for the ball here. ... do we want a repeat of that? No? good...lets go to work (and then go to work).
That sure wouldn't help weight room attendance around here. Most kids would just avoid that kind of badgering.
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Post by buckets007 on Apr 14, 2011 7:48:36 GMT -6
My coach is always mentioning how positions are up for grabs (we are a month out from season start) Last Sunday our Defensive Backs Captain pulled me aside and told me I had earned a starting spot but not to forget that I could still lose it before round one.
I'm only a 2nd year player, 1st year DB but my advice for what its worth is to keep on the point that at any time you can lose your spot. A rookie at training didnt fall to the right zone and was subbed straight off and he hasn't put a foot wrong since.
Keep the pressure on after those initial starting spots have been given which will not only help motivate the 2nd and 3rd string guys but also helps prevent the starter becoming complacent.
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Post by peacock1915 on Apr 14, 2011 16:36:22 GMT -6
We give skull and cross bones to Special Teams Starters. Everyone who makes the required number of summer workouts gets a spear that goes on the back of the helmet.
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Post by benl712 on Apr 14, 2011 20:41:45 GMT -6
Our colors were black and gold. All defensive "starters", including the "leading backups", work black jerseys in practice. The corresponding offensive players wore gold practice jerseys. Everyone else wore white. Attending off-season weight room sessions and gaining a starting position on special teams helped toward getting a starter jersey.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2011 13:18:19 GMT -6
Have game films playing in the weight room in the offseason- -and I wish the coaches would have been more negative with us..challenging us and our "manhoods" Hey Johnny..you just got driven 3 yards back on that play.. look at that. Hey Billy, look at #17 just outjump you for the ball here. ... do we want a repeat of that? No? good...lets go to work (and then go to work).
That sure wouldn't help weight room attendance around here. Most kids would just avoid that kind of badgering. Maybe not for every program. We were habitually bad--2-8,2-8,2-8,1-9 (which actually was our 'best' season, 8 of the ten teams we played went to the state playoffs). But our crew didn't get it. We had 3 different coaches over 4 years (technically 4 coaches, one was hired in Jan/Feb but resigned shortly after. I don't remember if we ever did anything other than One team meeting) For your club John, it might have been badgering. For us, it would have been accountability, as well as connecting the dots. THIS is why you need to work harder Johnny. Sure, you have started every game both ways for the last 2 seasons, but that is no indication that you are any good. It is an indication that your teammates are simply worse than you. You may have been the best lineman on our team for two years in a row, but you were still the 5th worst lineman in the league. For our particular group, I think we would have benefited from this being expressly told to us.
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Post by blb on Apr 16, 2011 14:03:06 GMT -6
Gotta agree with john here.
We believe in being Positive but Demanding - which is different than demeaning.
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Post by fantom on Apr 16, 2011 14:16:13 GMT -6
I don't see pointing out reality as being demeaning. If the kids want to beat the other guys they need to make a realistic assessment of where they stand and where they need to be.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2011 14:21:28 GMT -6
Gotta agree with john here. We believe in being Positive but Demanding - which is different than demeaning. I understand. My point was that your program, and John's program are already somewhat successful. This program had had some success the years prior to my freshman year, but had fallen on hard times. Keep in mind, the emphasis was not on "demeaning". It was on creating competition where there was non. I thought I was good. I was a 3 year two way starter. My backup SQUATED 165 as a senior. I wasn't smart enough to realize that just because I dominated him 4 days a week at practice--I needed to mentally and physically prepare for something DIFFERENT on Friday Nights. The team never had that mindset. We truly didn't understand that we were not good, we didn't work hard, we didn't deserve success. We just kept losing. And keep in mind, If I had been coaching us, I wouldn't have used the verbiage in my examples. Info would have been conveyed in a 1-on 1- closed door meeting. It would have been more: "Now John, I know you have been a two way starter, don't leave the field on specials for the past two seasons. But it is really important that we focus on our opponent. You have been very successful here at practice, but we don't get to play ourselves. Lets look at the tapes here. Look at yourself here. He is physically manhandling you. What can we do about that for next season?? The tape in the weight room..and any comments made would simply reinforce that conversation in an intense manner.
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Post by blb on Apr 16, 2011 14:23:28 GMT -6
I don't see pointing out reality as being demeaning. If the kids want to beat the other guys they need to make a realistic assessment of where they stand and where they need to be. OK - and telling Johnny he's "not any good", only the best of a bad bunch on your team and near the bottom of the league at his position is going to motivate him - how? And - who's been coaching him since he's bad?
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Post by fantom on Apr 16, 2011 14:30:55 GMT -6
I don't see pointing out reality as being demeaning. If the kids want to beat the other guys they need to make a realistic assessment of where they stand and where they need to be. OK - and telling Johnny he's "not any good", only the best of a bad bunch on your team and near the bottom of the league at his position is going to motivate him - how? And - who's been coaching him since he's bad? I didn't say that you have to tell him he isn't any good. They do need to understand what it takes to beat the people who they'll be playing against.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2011 14:31:05 GMT -6
I don't see pointing out reality as being demeaning. If the kids want to beat the other guys they need to make a realistic assessment of where they stand and where they need to be. OK - and telling Johnny he's "not any good", only the best of a bad bunch on your team and near the bottom of the league at his position is going to motivate him - how? Possibly refocus his competition on the opponent, who has been dominating him on a regular basis as opposed to his 165lb squatting back up whose butt he regularly kicks. Again, just personal experience. Perhaps mine is different because of the coaching turnover.
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Post by blb on Apr 16, 2011 14:47:29 GMT -6
Especially in the Off-Season - get them to focus on being the best they can be, which is part of having a Positive Attitude.
Why remind them of past failures?
Who wants to hear from their coaches for months before season even starts how bad they are or have been?
Again - be POSITIVE but Demanding.
Too many coaches who are frustrated with losing take it out on their kids - which becomes self-defeating behavior on adults' part.
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Post by fantom on Apr 16, 2011 14:52:08 GMT -6
Especially in the Off-Season - get them to focus on being the best they can be, which is part of having a Positive Attitude. Why remind them of past failures? Who wants to hear from their coaches for months before season even starts how bad they are or have been? Again - be POSITIVE but Demanding. Too many coaches who are frustrated with losing take it out on their kids - which becomes self-defeating behavior on adults' part. But are the kids in the OP trying to be the best that they can? Not if all they're trying to do is just be good enough to start.
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Post by blb on Apr 16, 2011 14:59:29 GMT -6
Especially in the Off-Season - get them to focus on being the best they can be, which is part of having a Positive Attitude. Why remind them of past failures? Who wants to hear from their coaches for months before season even starts how bad they are or have been? Again - be POSITIVE but Demanding. Too many coaches who are frustrated with losing take it out on their kids - which becomes self-defeating behavior on adults' part. But are the kids in the OP trying to be the best that they can? Not if all they're trying to do is just be good enough to start. That is a Universal problem (especially at smaller schools with less numbers and thus less competion for positions-PT), but not solved by running them down January-August.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2011 15:09:16 GMT -6
But are the kids in the OP trying to be the best that they can? Not if all they're trying to do is just be good enough to start. That is a Universal problem (especially at smaller schools with less numbers and thus less competion for positions-PT), but not solved by running them down January-August. Coach--as I said, I believe you are concentrating too much on the words I typed, and not the message. They KEY concept is to CONTINUALLY focus the athletes on the challenge at hand.--Namely the opponents they will face, because the challenge right in front of them (teammates) are no challenge at all. Again, just going from my personal experience as a PLAYER. I sure as heck wish that someone would have done this for us.
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Post by blb on Apr 16, 2011 15:16:05 GMT -6
That is a Universal problem (especially at smaller schools with less numbers and thus less competion for positions-PT), but not solved by running them down January-August. Coach--as I said, I believe you are concentrating too much on the words I typed, and not the message. They KEY concept is to CONTINUALLY focus the athletes on the challenge at hand.--Namely the opponents they will face, because the challenge right in front of them (teammates) are no challenge at all. Again, just going from my personal experience as a PLAYER. I sure as heck wish that someone would have done this for us. The challenge at hand, at this time of the year, is to improve individually. There will be time enough in August to compete against each other and during the season against opponents. Guess we just have different approaches to player development - mentally and physically.
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Post by fantom on Apr 16, 2011 15:17:34 GMT -6
Why remind them of past failures? Who wants to hear from their coaches for months before season even starts how bad they are or have been? . What is correcting if not reminding them of past failures? Every time you show film and point out a missed assignment or a misread key or a bad lead step you're reminding them of past failure.
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Post by blb on Apr 16, 2011 15:24:24 GMT -6
What is correcting if not reminding them of past failures? Every time you show film and point out a missed assignment or a misread key or a bad lead step you're reminding them of past failure. I'm sure you realize (or should) that that is much different than what takes place at this time of the year. Also - who coached them on assignments, reading keys, footwork? Maybe you're being reminded of poor coaching as much as their failures.
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Post by fantom on Apr 16, 2011 15:26:38 GMT -6
What is correcting if not reminding them of past failures? Every time you show film and point out a missed assignment or a misread key or a bad lead step you're reminding them of past failure. I'm sure you realize (or should) that that is much different than what takes place at this time of the year. Also - who coached them on assignments, reading keys, footwork? Maybe you're being reminded of poor coaching as much as their failures. Lack of physical strentgh is 100% correctable.
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Post by fantom on Apr 16, 2011 15:27:18 GMT -6
I'm sure you realize (or should) that that is much different than what takes place at this time of the year. Also - who coached them on assignments, reading keys, footwork? Maybe you're being reminded of poor coaching as much as their failures. Lack of physical strentgh is 100% correctable. So is bad spelling.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2011 15:34:46 GMT -6
blb--with all respect, I think you are swaying entirely too far from the original posters question. He asked how you create competition in situations like the one I played in and am referencing.
We dressed out 17 kids my sophomore year 9th-12th. This was two years removed from a state playoff team. That was the football culture that I "grew up in". I honestly did not understand that we were not that good. We just kept losing. I thought I was strong. I benched 205. My friends thought they were fast..they ran 4.95 hand timed. We had no clue. I thought I blocked well..watching old films, I was horrible. HORRIBLE. But I was the best we had, and had zero competition at practice. Never lost a 1 on 1 or 3 on 3 drill. Offense couldnt get a play off when I was on the other side of the ball...and I was a HORRIBLE player. Never knew why either.
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Post by blb on Apr 16, 2011 15:40:54 GMT -6
Okay, obviously not convincing fantom and 5085.
I'll stick with my approach, you stick with yours.
And, 5085 - FYI, took over a program last Fall that was 1-8 previous year, 6-22 previous three - we went 6-4, missed division championship by three points.
So program has only begun to be "somewhat successful." But JVs were 9-0, so there is hope. And our weight room numbers are up from last year at this time, too.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2011 16:03:38 GMT -6
I'll stick with my approach, you stick with yours. . What approach coach? Respectfully, you have YET to contribute one piece of info about lack of competition at positions--the original topic of the post. I am not saying any way is right or wrong. I am simply saying I know the experience of the original poster. I lived it. And now, years later, with years coaching at various levels of play (from jr high to Division 1AA) I wish this concept would have been a major focus of our team. I wish my the staff--all 2 or 3 of them (3 different HC's, but the HC for soph, jr years was an asst Fresh year. Only 1 or 2 assistants each year) would have really pushed the idea that WE PLAYED OTHER GUYS FRIDAY NIGHT. I NOW know myself, and my friends (with only 17 players, you were close) really didn't get that concept. We REALLY didn't know why we were losing. Not saying anything is "Right". Just saying that I know I would have benefited from being told straight up where I stood and that there was a difference between FRIDAY NIGHTS... and Mon-Thurs.
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