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Post by jg08mhs on Jul 27, 2010 22:15:55 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 27, 2010 23:13:54 GMT -6
Amazingly, I think the sportswriter got this one dead right. Exactly how is one grown man carrying another grown mans pads "paying dues". How does that lead to wins? ESPECIALLY Roy williams...
Of course, the whole issue is a tempest in teapot created by the media.
I have to disagree with dcohio here a bit. I don't think it was a production (if it was, then I probably would agree with him). It was simply a statement of fact. He is there to beat out roy williams. That is a big mindset.
Now, applying something to the level of football coaching most here deal with.. has anyone had any problems with "hazing" at the schoolboy level?
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Post by coachbuck on Jul 28, 2010 1:51:33 GMT -6
Its what rookies do. Is it a big deal to carry pads? No, Dez does not get it, he needs to lighten up and take his lumps. Its how you build relationships, its part of becoming a team, one unit. Having fun and hazing is all part of it. hardly overboard.
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 28, 2010 3:36:10 GMT -6
Do I sense a sense of entitlement in Dez Bryant?
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Post by leighty on Jul 28, 2010 6:14:50 GMT -6
It's a harmless NFL tradition. Rookies carry pads, bring breakfast, and pay the tab at dinner. Dez Bryant isn't bigger than the game.
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Post by fatkicker on Jul 28, 2010 6:49:01 GMT -6
it is a harmless tradition but.......it is pretty stupid too....
just like the old fraternity days.......pouring whiskey in a funnel or running naked through the campus or whatever your fraternity did was justified because it was tradition.....
no pledge is bigger than the fraternity....no player is bigger than the game....blah blah blah.....
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Post by phantom on Jul 28, 2010 7:01:30 GMT -6
I think that there's a place for the mild hazing that we're talking about. As soon as they sign, before they've played a down of professional football, many of these rookies become the highest-paid player on the team. They're also there to take a veteran's job, not just playing time but his literal paycheck. Add in the fact that many of these young guys, who may have always been the best player on the field, come in with an inflated sense of importance.
If humbling them a little defuses some of the veterans' resentment and serves to make the rookie a little more coachable then it's not a bad thing at the professional level.
It has no place in HS ball.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 28, 2010 7:02:44 GMT -6
Do I sense a sense of entitlement in Dez Bryant? Or is it a sense of "I am not your B!tch. I am here to take your job Roy Williams. I am here to be a professional, to attend meetings on time, to sign early and not hold out," etc. etc. And it seems after the media created this mountain out of a mole hill... he realized that while it was an absolutely moronic issue, it would benefit the team to just carry on the foolishness to allow the story to disintegrate. As I said, amazingly it seems the sports writer got this one right. Gone are the days of "teams". Good, bad, or whatever, the NFL is the MEGA sports league because of the mercenary style of roster management. Success stems from everyone being professional, not from everyone being "bonded" |
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Post by leighty on Jul 28, 2010 7:03:14 GMT -6
it is a harmless tradition but.......it is pretty stupid too.... just like the old fraternity days.......pouring whiskey in a funnel or running naked through the campus or whatever your fraternity did was justified because it was tradition..... no pledge is bigger than the fraternity....no player is bigger than the game....blah blah blah..... Are you really comparing a a player being made to carry pads to forced binge drinking? |
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Post by schenk11 on Jul 28, 2010 7:25:46 GMT -6
It is a harmless "tradition" but I would hardly call it "paying his dues". Paying your dues is working hard, impressing at practice and scrimmages, putting in extra time and earning your spot. That is what paying your dues is, not carrying someones pads.
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Post by dubber on Jul 28, 2010 8:30:59 GMT -6
I have no problem with the way Dez handled this, or his reaction to the firestorm.........
.....he seems pretty mature and focused.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 28, 2010 8:37:24 GMT -6
I have no problem with the way Dez handled this, or his reaction to the firestorm......... .....he seems pretty mature and focused. I agree. Anyone have any input or issues with similar situations at the H.s level? Otherwise this is just a bunch of nobody coaches, with zero nfl experience discussing something they know nothing about and have never been a part of (the modern NFL) |
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Post by jg08mhs on Jul 28, 2010 10:53:19 GMT -6
It is a harmless "tradition" but I would hardly call it "paying his dues". Paying your dues is working hard, impressing at practice and scrimmages, putting in extra time and earning your spot. That is what paying your dues is, not carrying someones pads. I agree, but I also think that doing a little harmless grunt work when you're a rookie, in any profession, is a part of it. As a rookie coach myself, there are eleven other veteran coaches on staff who all have a lot more experience than I do, and I can learn a lot from them. So I don't mind doing some grunt work for them. But I agree that there is a lot more to it like you said. |
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Post by eickst on Jul 28, 2010 13:11:47 GMT -6
I think a true veteran player and leader wouldn't try to haze rookies.
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coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
Posts: 406
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Post by coachriley on Jul 28, 2010 13:13:22 GMT -6
It is a harmless "tradition" but I would hardly call it "paying his dues". Paying your dues is working hard, impressing at practice and scrimmages, putting in extra time and earning your spot. That is what paying your dues is, not carrying someones pads. I agree, but I also think that doing a little harmless grunt work when you're a rookie, in any profession, is a part of it. As a rookie coach myself, there are eleven other veteran coaches on staff who all have a lot more experience than I do, and I can learn a lot from them. So I don't mind doing some grunt work for them. But I agree that there is a lot more to it like you said. Ditto, he may "just want to be there to win a championship" but sometimes you got to put up with some little sh!t. It was just carrying off some pads, not racking up tens of thousands of dollars in a dinner expense. |
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Post by phantom on Jul 28, 2010 13:38:23 GMT -6
I agree, but I also think that doing a little harmless grunt work when you're a rookie, in any profession, is a part of it. As a rookie coach myself, there are eleven other veteran coaches on staff who all have a lot more experience than I do, and I can learn a lot from them. So I don't mind doing some grunt work for them. But I agree that there is a lot more to it like you said. Ditto, he may "just want to be there to win a championship" but sometimes you got to put up with some little sh!t. It was just carrying off some pads, not racking up tens of thousands of dollars in a dinner expense. Well, that's coming. |
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Post by wingt74 on Jul 28, 2010 20:09:21 GMT -6
To put this in H.S. perspective. Very cut and dry rule. Freshmen are hands off. Any hazing incident results in 1 game suspension. Had to do one 3 yrs ago.
We promote the opposite. Help the frosh out...usually pair up a jr or sr with an incoming freshmen player
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Post by lionhart on Jul 28, 2010 21:29:47 GMT -6
freshman fill up the water coolers and bring them on and off the bus for practices. they also carry the bags. its just the way we do things. dez bryant should stfu and carry the pads. he (like our freshman) is the LOW MAN ON THE TOTEM POLE. we explain to the freshmen that, although lugging around the gear sucks, they only have to do it ONE YEAR.... then its the next years freshmens problem. we dont haze, we dont allow anybody to be bullied or intimidated.... but being a freshman (OR a rookie) means you start at the ground level and work your way up. inflated salaries and increased media coverage has led to a sense of entitlement amongst some of our young athletes. and by the way.... given bryants recent troubles, i would think he would be eager to keep the spotlight OFF him for a while, no?
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Post by bouncingboredom on Jul 28, 2010 23:31:19 GMT -6
I think it's precisely because the spotlight is on him that all this has exploded into what it has. If it had been Jordan Shipely telling Chad Ochocinco where to put his pads, it would have likely a) barely scraped a mention or b) resulted in everyone laughing at Chad being put in his place.
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Post by coachdubyah on Jul 29, 2010 11:38:19 GMT -6
To put this in H.S. perspective. Very cut and dry rule. Freshmen are hands off. Any hazing incident results in 1 game suspension. Had to do one 3 yrs ago. We promote the opposite. Help the frosh out...usually pair up a jr or sr with an incoming freshmen player Agreed. As a coach in HS, there is no time to be dealing with that. If they're more interested in playing jokes on freshmen obviously we are wasting their (the hazer's) time. |
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Post by endersgame on Jul 29, 2010 22:57:37 GMT -6
In high school football I don't think it has a place unless the stuff they're carrying has a benefit to the entire team, not just one individual- i.e., filling up the water coolers in lionhart's example, not carrying one guy's pads. But at the professional level I think it's a small step towards better team chemistry and a way for a veteran and rookie to bond. In the NFL they're grown adults and should be able to handle lighthearted ribbing by teammates- after all, they face much harsher criticism (and actual criticism, too, not just, "Hey rookie, carry my pads down there, man") in the media 24/7.
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Post by spreadattack on Jul 30, 2010 7:44:53 GMT -6
The shoulder pads things and being tied to the goalpost or whatever to one side, I am not cool with this: Last summer, not long after head of the NFL Players Association DeMaurice Smith begged his constituents to start saving 25 percent of their money in preparation for a potential looming lockout, the San Diego Chargers treated themselves to a $14,508.67 dinner at the expense of first-round pick Larry English(notes). If English was upset about this development, his teammate Shawne Merriman(notes) offered comfort by claiming to have picked up a $32,000 tab run up by fellow Chargers in his rookie season. Now, it seems this is focused on first round pick rookies with big contracts, but a huge percentage of NFL players end up in bankruptcy and I'm not paying the equivalent of a teacher's salary on anybody's meal, sorry. |
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Post by brophy on Jul 30, 2010 8:03:27 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 30, 2010 8:03:34 GMT -6
The shoulder pads things and being tied to the goalpost or whatever to one side, I am not cool with this: Last summer, not long after head of the NFL Players Association DeMaurice Smith begged his constituents to start saving 25 percent of their money in preparation for a potential looming lockout, the San Diego Chargers treated themselves to a $14,508.67 dinner at the expense of first-round pick Larry English(notes). If English was upset about this development, his teammate Shawne Merriman(notes) offered comfort by claiming to have picked up a $32,000 tab run up by fellow Chargers in his rookie season. Now, it seems this is focused on first round pick rookies with big contracts, but a huge percentage of NFL players end up in bankruptcy and I'm not paying the equivalent of a teacher's salary on anybody's meal, sorry. See, I actually think I might lean the opposite way. I believe this is really just stemming from the salary structures in the NFL. The pads, the goal post, the singing...all of those are just silly things, and if someone doesnt want to participate, I say no big deal. I can completely see Dez Bryant or others saying "Hey, I am here to beat you out. I am not carrying your pads". This however, cuts to the heart of the matter. The business core of PROFESSIONAL football. $$$$$. The fact the rooks have never taken an NFL snap, and are often the one of the higher if not highest paid players on their position group/unit. |
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splitbacks
Probationary Member
OL/DL coach
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Post by splitbacks on Jul 30, 2010 8:35:38 GMT -6
Look this kid needs his a$$ spanked and sent to the corner. All he had to do is carry pads, he wasn't being asked to perform some perverse sexual activity. You notice the media is making a big deal out of this, and most of them were the dorky little nerds in school who got one too many swirlies and wedgies.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 30, 2010 8:40:25 GMT -6
Look this kid needs his a$$ spanked and sent to the corner. All he had to do is carry pads, Why? |
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Post by wingt74 on Jul 30, 2010 11:52:24 GMT -6
I dont know why hazing is such a big deal...its a soccer mom mentality to not do it. If the kid cant handle it....he is probably not able to play in the NFL. Hs a little bit different....but even there.... I am over the sensitivity and dont hurt anybody's feeling. Especially when that is what lot of society needs. No way, I don't like the soccer Mom PC BS as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean it's ok to treat people like garbage either. Want to teach to rookies something? Kick their a$$ during a drill. Thing with the NFL is, it's a business first, team sport second. Could you imagine a new employee in your business being asked to carry the watercooler? |
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Post by fatkicker on Jul 30, 2010 12:08:16 GMT -6
hazing not a big deal? are you serious? hazing is either dangerous or a waste of time.....depending on the severity......
you are judging a player's ability to make it in the NFL on whether he can handle carrying someone's helmet or being taped to a locker......
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hoosier
Sophomore Member
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Post by hoosier on Jul 30, 2010 12:37:21 GMT -6
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Post by airman on Jul 30, 2010 12:50:24 GMT -6
I think there is a since of entitlement and it is the veterans who have it. if you are too dam lazy to carry your own pads you should not be playing in the nfl. Roy williams is about to be out of a job so that is why this is a big deal.
in the nfl rookies are seen as threats to veterans, especially veterans who do not think they need to compete. I love the nfl it s the most pure form of capitalism there is. it is the purist form of competition as well. you either get it done or you are gone.
roy williams is like those companies who took tarp funds.
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