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Post by davecisar on May 19, 2010 14:22:01 GMT -6
From my blog this afternoon:
What do you do when you are saddled with low numbers in youth football?
There may be an odd set of circumstances that lead you to have a team with very low numbers. If this is you this season, what changes do you make in order for your team to be more competitive?
Some youth football coaches panic when they end up with a team of say 14-16 players. Coaches often times resign themselves to having “throw away” seasons, especially when they are playing in leagues where they face teams with 25-45 players every week. If you ever find yourself in this unattractive position, don’t panic, there are a number of things you can do to improve your teams chances. Your changes must include modifications on scheme, strategy and practice plans.
The simplest changes will be in scheme. Your best players will have to go both ways for nearly the entire game; you have to find places where you can give them a breather without a significant negative impact on your team. Your offense and defense MUST be weak player friendly. When you look at both your offense and defense, you have to ask yourself, where can my weakest player play, while adding legitimate team value on every play? Don’t say safety on defense, well coached teams will take advantage of you every time you play your weakest player there, you will in essence be playing 10 versus 11 football. We would NEVER dream of running the 4-4 Viper Defense we use with our Select teams with a squad size of 15 players, there just isn’t a position in that scheme for a weaker player. You have to think about your offense in the same way.
If you like to run the option or a spread passing scheme where the Quarterback play is extremely important, you may want to rethink that. What happens on a squad of 15 when the star Quarterback goes down or is sick? Is his backup equally as sharp or does that mean your offense can just count on giving up 5 turnovers that week?
Your blocking scheme will have to be simple, because your offensive linemen will have to be interchangeable. You will have injuries and boo boos, just like any other season, which means your scheme better be simple enough that the kids can sub in and out very easily for each other without regard for if they usually play Right Tackle or Left Tackle.
When you have smaller squads, even if you are very well conditioned, you must strategize to conserve the energy of your players. If you are a team that likes to use a lot of long fast motion like jet or orbit/rocket motion, you may want to rethink that. Motioning your better players 20 yards at full speed can exhaust even the most well conditioned player, especially if he has to play defense as well, which he will if you only have 15 players. The same is true of lots of long pass patterns or even pulling. If you are pulling 2 players nearly every play that means all 4 of your offensive linemen are pulling nearly half the time. Those same kids are most likely also playing Defensive Tackle, making those bigger kids at risk of running out of gas pretty early.
On special teams you may consider limiting the effort required of your kids by using a variety of strategies. If you like to kickoff deep, your very best players are going to be running 30-40 yards or even more in space, trying to tackle the other teams very best athlete. If you don’t have your best players on the field on kickoffs and kick deep, expect plenty of returns for scores. On the other hand, you can onside kick every time and give some of your better two way players a breather. You will have a chance at getting the ball back and you keep the ball out of the hands of other teams best player while limiting your kids running to 10-15 yards instead of 40 plus yards. Think about using a similar strategy on punts, kick out of bounds instead of kicking it deep and save your best players from having to run deep to tackle the other teams best player in space.
Clock management is key when coaching youth football with low numbers. You may want to explore using every second of the clock to keep the number of plays down very low and allow your kids more time to rest between snaps. Consider throwing the football less, keeping the ball inbounds and using up every second of the clock up between snaps. We have even gone to not having our center snap the ball until there are 5 seconds left on the 25 second clock.
Cross training and conditioning are going to be key factors and could be the difference between surviving and having a nightmare season. Conditioning becomes crucial when coaching a team with low numbers. But when you’re struggling with having enough time to cross train players, you should try to combine the two activities. Run your plays out 20 yards on offense is a simple starting point. On defense do lots of “second whistle” drills. When running scout offense or defensive recognition drills with coaches as your running backs, once the play has ended with a tackle fit by one of your defenders on a running back coach, use a second whistle. Every defensive player must run up and touch the “tackled” coach within 3 seconds of him being tackled; a second whistle is blown at the 3 second mark. If any of the 11 defenders has not touched the coach, everyone does a short run to a cone set 20 yards away.
Lastly, but most importantly, you BETTER be a team of chemistry and character. If your kids don't come together and want to play for each other AND you, you can be in for a disasterous season. Having kids or parents hold you hostage because you have low numbers is a reality if you have not gained their trust and buy-in and that doesn't happen by accident or on its own. It happens based on your priorities, your plans, your actions and whether you have developed skills in this area or not.
Low numbers are not always a negative, but you can’t sit back and do the very same things you did when you had 25-30 kids on your team and expect the same results. In 2006 one of my teams only had 17 players. We were forced to coach every player up even more than we normally do. All of our players got more intensive coaching and all of our players learned multiple positions on both sides of the ball. We only lost 1 game that year and it was one of the most rewarding seasons in the 20 plus years I’ve been coaching youth football.
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Post by coachbrek on May 19, 2010 15:06:47 GMT -6
If could have 16 players every year I would be thrilled.
In 2003 I had 15 players and we went 10-0, we can keep our best players on the field, on both sides of the ball, I do not see the problem with that.
I seems like the more kids we have on a team the more kids we have to try and hide.
22 kids on a team is a nightmare for me, it makes us weaker on both sides of the ball.
As far as conditioning goes, games go pretty fast and these young kids are resiliant, they recover fast.
You will have better team chemistry by default, because you have less players so in turn you will have fewer personality conflicts,
Back in 2003 we were nothing special athleticly, but we could keep our 7 best players on the field on both sides of the ball. That made us tough.
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Post by bluecrazy on May 19, 2010 15:30:06 GMT -6
If could have 16 players every year I would be thrilled. In 2003 I had 15 players and we went 10-0, we can keep our best players on the field, on both sides of the ball, I do not see the problem with that. I seems like the more kids we have on a team the more kids we have to try and hide. 22 kids on a team is a nightmare for me, it makes us weaker on both sides of the ball. As far as conditioning goes, games go pretty fast and these young kids are resiliant, they recover fast. You will have better team chemistry by default, because you have less players so in turn you will have fewer personality conflicts, Back in 2003 we were nothing special athleticly, but we could keep our 7 best players on the field on both sides of the ball. That made us tough. Was this 11 man football, or 8 man? We played 11 man with 13 last year. This year we are 8 man |
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Post by coachbrek on May 19, 2010 15:44:01 GMT -6
11-man
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Post by davecisar on May 19, 2010 16:25:50 GMT -6
If could have 16 players every year I would be thrilled. In 2003 I had 15 players and we went 10-0, we can keep our best players on the field, on both sides of the ball, I do not see the problem with that. I seems like the more kids we have on a team the more kids we have to try and hide. 22 kids on a team is a nightmare for me, it makes us weaker on both sides of the ball. As far as conditioning goes, games go pretty fast and these young kids are resiliant, they recover fast. You will have better team chemistry by default, because you have less players so in turn you will have fewer personality conflicts, Back in 2003 we were nothing special athleticly, but we could keep our 7 best players on the field on both sides of the ball. That made us tough. Coach, Good team Chemistry doesnt happen by default, based on the number of players you have on your team. Many coaches that have contacted me talk about losing their teams when they have low numbers, no chemistry, no character, kids not coming to practice because they knew because of low numbers they would play anyways. It's never happened to me, not even close, but I have heard it happening to a good number of coaches. |
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Post by coachbrek on May 19, 2010 17:06:59 GMT -6
I will say that our team chemistry was great that year I assumed it was because of low numbers.
Dave, as you well know some teams could get 25 sluggos as well as 16 and still lose every game. If they don't coach them up.
We have registration next week and looking at the numbers of what we have comming back and the new class comming up we could be looking at around 16 players again, I can't wait.
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Post by davecisar on May 19, 2010 17:43:04 GMT -6
When you have 15 players and 7 dont show up to practice because they know they will get playing time or you forfeit, that is a problem. A character and chemistry problem. Ive heard it from plenty of coaches, never experienced it myself, we use sound management principles, set expectations, make it fun and hold people accountable etc. When people trust you and you build trust between the players, these type of problems rarely continue.
Ive won with 17 and with 25, the entire Point of the post- when you play in leagues like I have against teams that suit up from 25-52 players every week for 12 games vs your 15 non selects, you cant run the team like when you have 25 non select kids. Of course if you cut or run off the weakest kids or choose from a large pool, that changes the equation a bit.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2010 17:51:02 GMT -6
Sounds familiar
It's not really something you can comment on until you experience it 1st hand.
You also have to figure in injuries, kids missing games because of grades, or school trips, retreats, family emergencies out of state of you're a weighted organization kids making weight etc...When numbers are low all of these can be a huge problem
Then there's external factors such as parents, kids possibly playing for other programs, perhaps where they don't have to worry about weight. Transportation issues, as we found out , most of our kids rode the bus, which made nightmares for getting them to games
In some cases kids skip practice because they know if they show at the game they are almost guaranteed playing time due to numbers. Or they don't show at all because they aren't playing where they want, and some will try to teach you a lesson by walking right off the sideline during a game.
Other things to consider is where to hide inexperienced players, which is easier said than done, especially when numbers experience and talent favor your oponents.
When numbers dwindle to a point where you don't even know what you're going to have to play until you get to the game, all you can do is simplify to the lowest denominator, and give it your best.
If you go through every option you know of as a coach and the problems continue, don't beat yourself up over it, ignore criticisms, ...at least you know you did everything you could
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Post by davecisar on May 19, 2010 19:05:58 GMT -6
When I coached in the inner-city my assistant coach and I picked up all the kids and brought them to games, all 22 of them, stacked like cord wood in my SUV and his  . We had several different pickup points and then we took them all to eat after the games in sit down rest. Started the season with 23, ended with 22. We had 2 parents at many games, simple problem to overcome, takes effort and is a pain, but very doable. My wife sometimes drove an additional vehicle etc Everyone has the issues you described, each and every one of us, it's youth football. When teams implode, those are character, team management and chemistry issues. Kids that dont want to come to practice, character, team management, people management, lack of self motivation skills development issue. Could also be a lack of fun issue, I believe you can make practices fun and get what you want done as well, so kids crave coming to practice, crave the praise, crave the comradarie. Parents that wont cooperate, team management and trust issue. Many here have successfully coached very small teams with whackerdoodle parents and did fine. Many of us have coached 7-8 grade kids who also play on the Jr High School team ( had that gig 2 times) no weigh ins etc, have had sick kids, overweight kids, injured kids. There is no perfect coaching gig, some are a little better than others, but all have thier obstacles and whose to say our competition isnt facing the very same hurdles? What you have to ask yourself in these scenarios is what am I doing in the off season to build my skills to insure it doesnt happen again. What is on your reading list? What is on your skill building list, or do you leave it to chance again and let it happen all over again. What clinic sessions did I attend that will help me with this? If it happens once and you werent prepared, undertstandable, happens twice same MO, no change in your effort or skill building, shame on you. IMO It's not a crime to be have poor management and motivational skills, it is a shame when it isnt addressed. You lose 4 kids out of 25 in whacky year, understandable. Lose over 1/2 your team or it happens 2 of 3 years- you got to examine what youre doing. Many people just dont have to deal with those type of issues, they arent trained in organizational management or sports psychology. Fortunately I was a mgmt major in school and benefited from 15 years of learning from others, seminars, training, in the field experience etc definitely something learned and refined over time. The last 4 years Ive attended at least 25 large clinics and listened to at least 50 different guys talk about motivation, team chemistry, sports psychology topics- things I think are important and want to get better at. Going to a business oriented one next month for more of the same, trying to learn more. I havent coached my best season yet. Changing schemes doesnt solve kids quiting on you issues. Changing your approach to team development, developing trust, building up that emotional bank account relationship, getting players to self motivate and team management, people management skills help solve those problems. Those are all Coaching Skills and Management Skills that can be developed, its a coaches choice to admit this is important and build skills and proccesses or ignore it and leave it up to chance. Ive consulted and worked with several imploding programs (not my own, thankfully we never let it get to that point) and these were the issues with every one of them facing these problems. Went to Key West last year in mid season to work with just such a team total lack of control and lack of strong leadership, lack of explicit expectations, zero holding kids accountable, zero team chemistry, no character development, no love, no real trust, a total bomb. Saw the very same thing in a team in NY last year, third week of their practices- early enough to head it off, turn it around and got most of the coaches on board with the process, they ended up having a pretty good year after hanging on that ledge Sometimes tough to put the genie back in the bottle if not taken care of BEFORE the season starts or implemented from Day 1 etc. Same thing I see in business in some of my management consulting gigs. Nice thing about them, they KNOW they have a problem and are paying $$ and spending time trying to resolve it. Some youth coaches refuse to admit they have a solveable problem and do nothing to address it. It's all about setting priortities, adapting and overcoming. Some good places to start are Steven Covey and Ken Blanchard books, First Things First, One Minute Manager (takes 30 minutes to read) and Whale Done to start with . They are on audio books as well- listen in the car, dont have to read. One of the most overlooked areas in coaching, totally ignored by many, almost always the root of disaster seasons. I better close, I dont want to go over my 2 post per day average, 1500 days, 3000 posts etc |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 9:33:31 GMT -6
However in terms of changing schemes it is feasable if a certain scheme is reliant on particular athletes, for example option.
With low numbers and a small poole of athletes to choose from schemes such as option schemes can be devistated by injuries to a teams QB's ( something else we experienced)
Without the reps required, by the time you get to 2 practices a week you will be in a bad way.
You may also discover that inexperienced athletes can do certain things slightly better than others, for example my kids last year could not drive block even with double teams, so our run game suffered heavily, however thay wee able to pass block pretty well , so we shifted our focus from a run heavy scheme to a pass heavy scheme, which started moving the ball
As a coach you know your kids, there is no cure all out there, it doesn't exist, you have to look at what you have and try to make sometihng out of it, sometimes you go around in circles, and wind up in a places you never thought you would.
If you have 13 kids on your team and just 3 of them come down with the flu, which is not unheeard of you can't play....there are things that are way out of your control, and anyone who says you can is out of their mind.
Regroup and do the best you can
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Post by adolphrollingover on May 20, 2010 9:34:46 GMT -6
Dave you hit it out of the park with this post. We had a group of 19 with 17 rookies playing up a division last year. We won 2 games, but all 19 returned. I attribute it to listening to and applying your approach. The boys "craved" practice because it was enjoyable and they trusted the coaches and they trusted the other players.
Todd
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Post by davecisar on May 20, 2010 12:14:33 GMT -6
If the main problem is kids quiting/not showing up and going from 31 to 13 players
The cure isnt a change in scheme, it is a change in how one manages the team, how one gets the players/parents to develop trust/buy in, it's how one develops chemistry and character. very difficult to be successful with 13, hence you work real hard at developing skills and processes that insure you dont get to those numbers. That way you never end up with 13 with 3 missing because of illness etc JMO
In my other example, not getting beat by 40 week 1, probably helped a bit, so scheme, coaching, shortening the game played a part. But the reason the kids stuck with me in what looked like a disaster season was all about chemistry/trust/character development.
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Post by davecisar on May 20, 2010 12:22:13 GMT -6
As to picking up kids:
Very common deal- I did a clinic for a coach in Baton Rouge 3 years ago- he picked up at least 12 kids in his Suburban before practice that day. My guess (not sure) he does the same thing on game day, we made 5 stops that day if I remember right. A real pain and something we shouldnt have to do, but if a kid cant get a ride, something many of us do. I used to pick up a couple of kids every game day on my way into town, they would go to church with me in their football pants/jerseys and then we would make 2-3 other stops to pick up the rest of the kids. You do what you gotta do sometimes, especially when you have small numbers and you have kids not showing at games. I had kids that played for me for 5 years and their folks never made a single game or practice.
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Post by mhcoach on May 20, 2010 12:42:29 GMT -6
DC
What you are talking about seems to plague most youth teams. I am asked constantly, "How do you get all your players to show up at practice?". To be honest, it's not something I have given a lot of thought to. We establish our rules early, are in constant contact with our players through phone calls, emails & text messages. We stick to our guns if you don't practice you don't play( no matter who).
In today's times where most players have a large variety of important things to handle, we do allow for an excused practice, providing it is something valid. We inform the parents prior to the season not to schedule appointments on practice nights.
As far as the important issue of team chemistry we work hard to develop it. again not really something I put a lot thought into, just things I have always done. I try to find something for them to rally around. It's never a set thing, just what happens that year. We want our kids to care about each other & are not afraid to show we care about them. One thing that really seems to help with this, is we have a large number of players return from teams past. Only having been in Charlotte for 3 seasons this number is growing every year.
I wish there was a set formula for team chemistry, but I beleive it's just something that develops or not.
As for low numbers, I really can't say I have ever had that problem. In years when injury or illness have taken it's toll, we do adjust how we practice. Perhaps 1/2 line work, or simply isolating an area. Again that's just something I would do normally.
Joe
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Post by davecisar on May 20, 2010 12:54:10 GMT -6
Leaving team chemistry to happen or not happen on its own doesnt make much sense to me.
Since it is so very important to team success, Im not leaving that up to chance. We have lots of proccesses and methods to make sure it happens. Most people not in management, havent studied under a coach that made it a priority or havent studied it, dont know how to make that happen. Very doable, not much different than teaching any other skill to your players IMO.
Where we are now, picking kids up, not an issue. In the hood with abscent or whackerdoodle parents picking up is something we have to do sometimes. It is why I had my 16 teams scattered on 4 different fields 1 mile apart - so most of the kids could at least walk to practice-not games though.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 12:56:23 GMT -6
Again depends on circumstance, if your players are scattered over different areas of the city carpooling may not be in the cards. That's not saying measures can't be taken to give them better opportunity to make practice...we moved practices from 6-6:30 so parents could get their kids to practice, or they could make the bus.
Going from 31-13 was an oddity however there was almost all the result of circumstances beyond our control, buy in or not.
You can't do anytihng about injuries...they occour you make adjustments...character has nothing to do with it, character isn't going to heal a fractured clavicle, or avulsed ankle.
You can't tell an overly religious family that their son is going to miss mass on sundays becaue he has football games, or he has to forego a bible retreat which removes him from the team for a week at a time ......character and buy in wont help that at all
Or that a kid can't go away due to a death in the family.
Character wont make a kid show up, who's father you just kicked off your squad, and has forbid his son to play anymore.
Character and buy in can't make a kid drop 10 pounds when he physically doesn't have the weight to lose.
Character, and buy in wont change a parent's mind about removing their son from your team because he got expelled.
Charcter and buy in can't control a child who develops severe asthma, and is advised by a physician not to finish the season.
Character, and buy in can't control the flu...which I hope to god we don't see again like we did this year.
Kids who are given a choice, of where they want to play, or playing somewhere they don't will often choose the favorable option....especially if that is being fed by parental influence. Ask any kid whether they would rather play QB, or guard, I'm going to bet the overs on QB
Lets also not forget kids who find the hitting, soreness, bumps briuses, and running just isnt really for them. Yoou can build them up all you want, but if they're not really into it they're not going to hang around.
Character and buy in are fine...IF that's the cause of your issues. Not if it's due to circumstances beyond your control. In that case dumb it down and just do the best you can
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Post by davecisar on May 20, 2010 13:06:54 GMT -6
We ALL face problems like that every year, each and every one of us. We all have injuries, kids kicked out of school, crazy parents, asthma kids- it's youth football. We had a concussion, swine flu, broken wrist and a torn miniscus all on 1 team last year- none of them dropped. 7 of those kids played Jr High football, one was a starting FB and DE at Jr High- he played DT and RG for me. You plan for it and work to minimize it, selflessness was our primary theme and we had weekly themes as well, and awards and studies and lots of "whale done" Blanchard moments surrounding each of the weekly themes. Heck we only had 2 kids near or over the striper weight, one was our QB. He made weight by just 3 lbs. Mom said he was prepared to play on the line if he didnt make weight- he has been a back for forever etc
The goal is to minimize those losses by getting buy in/trust and developing chemistry and character. Kids leaving to play on another team- because they want to play another position, everyone deals with that. When players buy into and are taught the team concept and they beleive and trust in you and each other they dont leave. When they crave YOUR approval and that of their team mates, they arent leaving for anything. Ive been coaching for over 20 seasons and Ive never had a player leave me in season to play for another team. And day 1 I always give the same speech " I dont care where you want to play, football is a team game and we will place you where you are the best suited to play and where you benefit the team the most. To us all 22 positions are equally important. If you or your parents do not think you can support that approach, you need to leave now and join one of our competitors teams. I always have cash to cover registration refunds in my wallet and I also have the phone numbers of my competitors. Please dont feel bad about leaving now, it isnt a big deal, if you feel you need to in the long run it's best for both of us" Ive made that speech 20+ times. A version of it is in my book, the very same speech I ALWAYS give prior to the start of the first practice. Pretty black and white stuff, no wiggle room- it's expectation management. Im Omaha with my 16 teams we did it in the stadium often times to crowds of over 1,000- including parents/players, same speech every year.
When you lose over half your team and it happens on a regular basis, you have to take steps to improve, not just hope you get some kind of dream team IMO
Have you put any time into making yourself better in that area?
Have you bought any books or attended clinics to help sharpen your skills in that area?
If not, then it's just a crapshoot every year, everything is determined by luck and circumstance. I thought part of coaching was to take some of the luck and circumstance and even that out a bit.
Imploding teams- especially if it happens fairly regular is leadership in need of some good managment training and in need of some good chemstry and character development programs/processes.
It's why Mike Mahonzs program did a complete turnaround- he didnt hire great x and o coaches, his son hired great managers who knew how to manage and motivate.
Personally I wouldnt take a kid on my team who had to lose 10 pounds and didnt have it to lose, that doesnt sound safe. With 31 kids, more than enough so that you dont have to take longshots.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 13:51:12 GMT -6
Didn't hapen on a "regular basis"..last year was the 1st, year before we simply didn't have the #'s.
As a matter of fact last season we didn't even have 11 until the day of our 1st pre-seson game, which was actually the second as we had to forefit one due to #'s .
We finished our 1st league game with 10 due to an injury.
We were lucky to get 2 more after that, which came up from the JV team of the team one weight class below us. Th organization did that so we didn't fold the team . However the kid who showed up that day before the pre-season game never came back after the 1st game because his family got evicted....character, and buy in won't fix that
Character and buy in won't fix the fact that of the 12 you have remaining 7 have never played ball before
AND I also find it odd that prior to this group which I had for 2 years in a row, actually moving up to stay with them, we had nothing BUT success for 6 straight years, yet we're still doing the exact same things we did then.
The difference was the cast. plain and simple. And if there's a text that handles all of the criteria I listed above please tell me where I'd love to read it. ...but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist
And as for the kid who was 10 over at the beginning of the season, we don't have a choice to turn kids away, it's up to them to lose the weight ( which increases every week) ..which makes it easier, however he didn't. But he has to occupy an roster spot.
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Post by mhcoach on May 20, 2010 14:28:55 GMT -6
DC
"Leaving team chemistry to happen or not happen on its own doesn't make much sense to me."
Perhaps you misunderstood me, or my explanation was poor.
"As far as the important issue of team chemistry we work hard to develop it. again not really something I put a lot thought into, just things I have always done. I try to find something for them to rally around. It's never a set thing, just what happens that year. We want our kids to care about each other & are not afraid to show we care about them."
The point I was attempting to make was that team chemistry is not a set formula. Rather a process each team under goes in it's own way. There was a post a few month's earlier about what makes championship youth teams, I listed team chemistry as #1. That being said every team has find it's own catalyst. No 2 teams are alike. Yes I have set things & exercises I do to make this happen, but it is unique to each team. I hope I did a better job explaining this time.
Joe
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Post by davecisar on May 20, 2010 14:43:18 GMT -6
Didn't hapen on a "regular basis"..last year was the 1st, year before we simply didn't have the #'s. As a matter of fact last season we didn't even have 11 until the day of our 1st pre-seson game, which was actually the second as we had to forefit one due to #'s . We finished our 1st league game with 10 due to an injury. We were lucky to get 2 more after that, which came up from the JV team of the team one weight class below us. Th organization did that so we didn't fold the team . However the kid who showed up that day before the pre-season game never came back after the 1st game because his family got evicted....character, and buy in won't fix that Character and buy in won't fix the fact that of the 12 you have remaining 7 have never played ball before AND I also find it odd that prior to this group which I had for 2 years in a row, actually moving up to stay with them, we had nothing BUT success for 6 straight years, yet we're still doing the exact same things we did then. The difference was the cast. plain and simple. And if there's a text that handles all of the criteria I listed above please tell me where I'd love to read it. ...but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist And as for the kid who was 10 over at the beginning of the season, we don't have a choice to turn kids away, it's up to them to lose the weight ( which increases every week) ..which makes it easier, however he didn't. But he has to occupy an roster spot. Sounds like a great org, you stuck around for another year of that? Around here only the very weak orgs have problems with extreme low numbers. I cant remember playing a team with fewer than 17 kids since maybe 2002 or so. When I first starteb both orgs and we were still in need of kids We were always been able to add more kids week 1-2 as the parents and kids get a taste of how much fun they are having. We are almost always turning kids away after we got things going-We only took the # of kids based on the # of quality coaches I felt we had to field competent/safe/well coached teams. As to someone that had no chance of safely shedding weight, Im talking to mom and dad day 1, we always weigh informally day 1 to see where we are at. I would have sent a kid like that to an unlimited league so he could have played without shedding the weight if I were in those shoes. DC |
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Post by mahonz on May 20, 2010 14:44:23 GMT -6
It's why Mike Mahonzs program did a complete turnaround- he didnt hire great x and o coaches, his son hired great managers who knew how to manage and motivate. ...and Jr just about went insane during the process. He had no football fun at all last year. He changed the culture of a very large org and made plenty of enemies along the way. I think things will continue to improve and hopefully stick in the future. Low numbers…or even high numbers is poor management by the Administration. Coach Mike |
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Post by davecisar on May 20, 2010 15:05:42 GMT -6
Jr did well by sticking to Collins "Good to Great" template
I learned my lesson in 2004 when a 3rd year coach who had NEVER played a down of football took one of my "B" teams into the Select League so they could have an even number of teams and got them to the title game. Unreal accomplishment, playing in league where many of the teams are composed of the best of 100-200 etc. At 8-10 he's playing against teams of all 10s with lots of 8s and 9s etc. He was a GREAT manager, phenomenal communicator and an EXCELLENT basketball coach. He had no ego and an incredible appetite for excellence and self improvement. He ran circles around so many of the established "football" guys a Jim Collins type guy through and through.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 16:50:44 GMT -6
Didn't hapen on a "regular basis"..last year was the 1st, year before we simply didn't have the #'s. As a matter of fact last season we didn't even have 11 until the day of our 1st pre-seson game, which was actually the second as we had to forefit one due to #'s . We finished our 1st league game with 10 due to an injury. We were lucky to get 2 more after that, which came up from the JV team of the team one weight class below us. Th organization did that so we didn't fold the team . However the kid who showed up that day before the pre-season game never came back after the 1st game because his family got evicted....character, and buy in won't fix that Character and buy in won't fix the fact that of the 12 you have remaining 7 have never played ball before AND I also find it odd that prior to this group which I had for 2 years in a row, actually moving up to stay with them, we had nothing BUT success for 6 straight years, yet we're still doing the exact same things we did then. The difference was the cast. plain and simple. And if there's a text that handles all of the criteria I listed above please tell me where I'd love to read it. ...but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist And as for the kid who was 10 over at the beginning of the season, we don't have a choice to turn kids away, it's up to them to lose the weight ( which increases every week) ..which makes it easier, however he didn't. But he has to occupy an roster spot. Not only did I stick around I turned down an offer from the league powerhouse, which won yet another title that year. There was issues with the org, if you remember the presedent at the time had no balls. The team below us had 44 kids, and by rule any heavy kids on that team are supposed to move up if they don't make weight by week 2...they had 9 they didn't move any., because they thought they had a championship team. But I don't walk when things get tough what the hell does that show people? A rule is now in place that all teams have a minimum now before any "special ( aka older lighters) can be awarded to any team. Nope we're usually one of the top teams in our division, at least 1-2 playoff contenders every year...like I said it was an oddball happening. My first year we had to ride around in our cars asking random kids if they wanted to play. but remember we're in a area with 3 football teams 2 powerhouse teams right in our back yard, so we're always in competition. As are we, that fact is actually what bit us in the a$$, because now people are briging in kids who would like to start playing at 12-14 years old, because of our reputation. I don't mind having that, but it's rare you 'll get a starter out of that age group starting out so late. You're assuming I didn't..trust me, we did. But mom is the one who was pushing him to cut weight, because she felt it was his last chance to shine. This was the one that took him to a sauna, then tells me he just watched what he ate! I sat him anyway. Then last game he simply walks away on his over to the scales!! I asked his brother whay he did that...his response "he said he was too tired" We had another that was 12 pounds over , but kept showing up with his cousin (who did make weight) because he had nowhere to go after school. Had I stayed with last years weight class we most likely would've made a run, they had some good kids, good sense of humor but a very green coach ( great guy though) |
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Post by davecisar on May 20, 2010 17:43:23 GMT -6
So great org, but a team with just 13 kids to start and not enough to even field a team at the end? No coaches and one that suited up in pads to practice with the team? Quality org signs? In Omaha, if you forfieted a game you lost your home field for the entire year for the entire org AND lost voting privledges for a year- never saw it happen to anyone even the poor programs in the league.
Another team with 31 kids, only 13 playing at the end and a team hoarding overweight kids that cant make weight?
A pres with no balls: rarely the sign of a well run org by most definitions. As an org head, you EVEN OUT teams, it's pretty much the most basic part of the job. Those are not the teltale signs of a great org IMO You have overweight kids, you get them on some other guys team in some other league so the kid can play.
IMO life is too short and there are too many programs out there. If an org is not a quality program or if Im not in a place where I can significantly impact the org, Im just wasting their time and mine. Lots of good places out there to coach, lots of bad ones too- the bad ones are usually too set in their ways to make any real changes. That's why they are bad to begin with.
Doesnt sound like any well run orgs around here at all. Ive fielded over 100 teams in my org, weve never had anything close to what you described.
We all have competition, we had 3 orgs within 2 miles of us in Omaha, right now we practice alongside another competing org and practice at the same place the Jr High does (competition) One year in Omaha we had the Boys Club fielding teams directly accross the street from our largest practice field. Pretty common to have lots of competition, which I think is healthy, Poor orgs shrink and die, well run ones grow and thrive.
Maybe Im all wet, but Im not going to field a 13 man squad and a 44 kid squad or let teams hoard players I doubt guys like Mike would either but what do I know LOL.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 18:38:57 GMT -6
you should try being on the receiving end of it
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Post by davecisar on May 20, 2010 19:11:54 GMT -6
Coach,
My point exactly, time to move on.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2010 19:37:32 GMT -6
Those days are behind us fortunately.
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Post by tiger46 on May 24, 2010 7:04:18 GMT -6
Can anyone cite any specific things or actions that they take to ensure that they're on the right track in good team management?
I have had problems with low numbers, parents not being committed, etc... The best season that we've had was three years ago when my wife and I were paying player fees, burning gas in two trucks and a whole lot of other things to get players to practice and games. Other coaches were going that extra mile, also.
But, it seems like there must be a better way to get more participation from parents and players. Our main problem has really been with parents. I hate thinking about some of the horror stories from dealing with some of those people: prison dads, drunk moms, worn out grandparents, druggies, baby daddies, baby mommas.
You name it; we've dealt with it- and, not always particularly well. I could use any advice.
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Post by coachbrek on May 24, 2010 8:25:57 GMT -6
Can anyone cite any specific things or actions that they take to ensure that they're on the right track in good team management I have had problems with low numbers, parents not being committed, etc... The best season that we've had was three years ago when my wife and I were paying player fees, burning gas in two trucks and a whole lot of other things to get players to practice and games. Other coaches were going that extra mile, also. But, it seems like there must be a better way to get more participation from parents and players. Our main problem has really been with parents. I hate thinking about some of the horror stories from dealing with some of those people: prison dads, drunk moms, worn out grandparents, druggies, baby daddies, baby mommas. You name it; we've dealt with it- and, not always particularly well. I could use any advice. It starts with your mandatory player parent meeting if the parents do not show up for the meeting their son does not get to play. The parents have to sign a code of conduct and the players have to sign a code of conduct. So they have it in writing what the expectations are long before they even get pads. We had people donate to our program to ensure that all kids get a chance to play football we have a fund set aside for people who can not or do not pay their player fee. if we get a bad check back or a mom says she will get us the money on her next pay check we wave the fee and take it our of our fund. More years than not I pick up kids for practice if I didn't they would not be there so I do it. Or, I have a responsible parent of another player pick kids up if they live in close proximity. We always meet before we leave to away games to make sure everyone has a ride there is always plenty of room for the kids who do not have a ride. Organization and communication is key, our director gets the e-mails of all the parents or responsible parties and we have weekly news letters handed out and e-mailed. We have the schedule for the week, what we need for volunteers we have sign up sheets for each game for the parents etc. Three years ago I had a bunch of players with poor home lives, hopeless parents, it was exhausting! I don't know how but we still managed to win 9 games that year. |
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Post by coachdoug on May 24, 2010 9:37:34 GMT -6
I agree with Brek - it all starts with setting proper expectations before you start. Lay out exactly what your team rules are and what you expect from both the players and the parents. Of course, some parents will never properly participate (career criminals, people with alcohol & drug problems, etc), so you have to figure out a way to pick up the slack. That may require you or other coaches to pick kids up (like Brek, I encourage the kids to get rides with each other to take a little pressure off the coaches).
My approach also depends somewhat on the kids age - once they're about 11 or 12, I place a lot more of the responsibility on them rather than their parents - I will no longer accept "My parents couldn't get me there" or "Sorry I'm late - my dad didn't get out of the bar ... errr ... work until late," etc. I tell them that they're old enough to take responsibility themselves for getting to practice and games on time and they know if they can count on their parents or not. I make sure they have all the coaches phone numbers and all their teammates phone numbers and let them know they can call me any time if they are having any kind of problem. With all those contacts on the team, though, there is no excuse for not finding a way to practice or games on time.
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. We had several different pickup points and then we took them all to eat after the games in sit down rest. Started the season with 23, ended with 22. We had 2 parents at many games, simple problem to overcome, takes effort and is a pain, but very doable. My wife sometimes drove an additional vehicle etc Everyone has the issues you described, each and every one of us, it's youth football.
