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Post by coachdoug on Apr 13, 2010 17:24:43 GMT -6
There are quite a few different ways to go about getting all your MPPs into the game. I've tried a number over the years with mixed results - every strategy has its downside, so I'm curious to know what has worked best for everyone else and why. Some coaches try to get all their MPPs in on offense, some split it 50/50 between offense and defense and others fall somewhere in between. I'm not aware of anyone that tries to get the majority of their MPPs in on defense. Here are some of the more common offensive strategies: - Put one or two MPPs in the game for just a play or two at a time, but do this every play until all the minimum plays are done. Of course, you have to work your play calling around who's in the game on any given play and run away from them.
- Similar to the first option, but script the first 10-15 offensive plays of the game so you can maximize the number of MPPs on each snap. For instance, if you know you're going to run a sweep play from a 2x2 spread set, you might be able to sub for the backside G and T as well as both backside receivers. You practice the script in order during the week with all the substitutions so everyone knows exactly when they're going into the game in the first one or two offensive series.
- Run a special MPP offense. This can be anything from the Beast, to a double-tight QB-sneak or boot every play, to a double-tight wishbone, to a spread jet-sweep scheme. Whatever it is, you have just a few starters on the field in key positions and practice just a handful of plays so they can get pretty proficient at those plays. If this group gets one or two first downs, you can get all or most of your MPPs their plays in one offensive series.
- Run a special MPP offense, but only put them in on first and second down. If they don't get a first down in those two plays, bring the starters back in third down and give them 2 plays to get the first down - if they do, bring the MPP unit back in and continue doing so until all their plays are completed.
- Rotate MPPs at WR and have them sprint down the field in an attempt to wear out the opposition's CBs. If they start ignoring your sprinting MPP WRs, be prepared to make them pay by throwing it deep (although you may have to sneak a starter back in at the streaking WR position unnoticed for this to work. This strategy has been advocated by John Reed.
- Put your MPPs in at WR and split them out 25-30 yards and tell them not to move so as not to get a false start penalty. I hope no one here does this, but I only mention it because I've seen it done - far too often, unfortunately.
My team last season used the 3rd option (run a special MPP offense) with a double-tight wishbone running mostly power off-tackle, with a qb boot or pass for a change of pace. It worked great against weaker competition, but we struggled to get first downs against better teams. In fact, our MPP group failed to get a first down in our championship game, taking up 3 possessions over about a quarter and half - having no offense for that long was, IMO, a major factor in our losing the game. Anyway, for the teams that do run a significant percentage of their MPPs on defense, the strategy is generally to play them in positions where they are surrounded by stronger players to minmize the damage they can cause. This usually means they end up on the DL, often in bearcrawling positions to plug the A and/or B gaps. I'm curious to know if anyone has done anything else successfully. So, please let me know what MPP strategy you have followed and how it has best worked for you. Right now I'm leaning towards the second option above (work in 1-2 MPPs per play, but script the first 10 plays of the game to maximize MPP participation), but I'm not completely sold on that strategy, so if anyone has a better way, I'll be happy to implement it. |
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Post by cyflcoach on Apr 13, 2010 22:14:02 GMT -6
Doug, - We typically begin substituting MMPs during our second series of the game.
- Most MMPs for us will line up either as receivers or on the offensive line.
- No doubt that it is important to know when and where they are during the course of a game, as play calls will need to reflect who's in at that time.
Dave Hartman CYFL Coach |
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Post by FBCoachMike on Apr 13, 2010 22:31:30 GMT -6
COACHDOUG:
On offense, I've rotated kids in at OG, OT on the backside of a play and have them crab block. So those particular plays are scripted in a sense. I have rotated a few kids at WR too. I had them run a fly as fast as they can and throw a pass to the other side. On defense, of course a full-time rotation of A gap bear crawlers. And at FS I can sneak some subs in there. My FS is primarily run first fill the alley, so I can teach 3-4 kids how to do that without killing us.
Fortunately, in my league, we can count special team plays. And our MMP's only have to play 5 plays. So every MMP gets about 4 special teams plays and I try to get them in 3-4 snaps somewhere on offense or defense. I typically only have no more than 5 true MMP kids each year where they just aren't getting it at any one position. So it hasn't been too much of a problem for me. I guess, I don't really have a cut and dry strategy to answer your question, but this is what I do. So far so good.
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Post by ojowens411 on Apr 14, 2010 6:47:33 GMT -6
Coach,
Since I've been on this site, I've seen plenty of people discuss MMP's like they are getting 15 a season.
How many do you coaches get in a season?
Maybe I have been blessed. Last season, I ended up with 2. I took turns during the season starting each one at FS. I also put them both on kickoff. That didn't hurt much because we mostly kicked onside. But at FS, I would play one all the way through to 8 plays and then I'd sub the other one for his 8.
Once you added in the all of the kickoffs (we averaged almost 40 points a game), then they were well above the league minimum of 8.
The best part was that we had them off of defense before the other team could really make any adjustments to try to hurt us back there. I had 2 great corners, and we were strong up the middle. Once we got the plays out of the way, then I'd put my QB at FS and it was a win-win. He didn't have the start (even though he was good enough to), and could be on the sideline with me for the first part of the game after the offense came off of the field.
This year though, I don't think I'll have any. I happen to be fortunate enough to coach in a league that splits the teams between competitive (D-1) and instructional (D-2). I'll probably only carry 18 kids and they all will play a vital role in what we're trying to accomplish.
But I am curious as to how many MMP's are you coaches seeing on average per season?
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 14, 2010 7:42:47 GMT -6
Doug
MMP strategies are something I think we all struggle with. Last season we used our general plan, which is to spot substitute in MMP's after the first or second series. Most of these players get in on offense, perhaps 1 or 2 on defense. We mostly overpowered the competition here in Charlotte so it really never was an issue. Towards the end of the season I began to worry what would happen in Florida. So we designed a specific offense to get all our MMP's in as a unit. We still had 4 starters in key positions. We ran a no huddle empty set with jet motion. We ran jet & a PAP calling things on the line. We would practice this as a unit usually in the middle of practice while the starters had a water break. First game in Florida this unit scored 3 td's in 4 plays. Now I had the problem of getting my starting Offense plays in a runaway game. The second game was against Parkridge(eventual National Champs) our MMP unit got a first down on the first series. This was exactly what we needed so the MMP's didn't really factor into the game. The third game once again they scored 3 td's on 4 plays. I was really pleased with how this worked and have plans to do it again. I think just the fact that you have several strategies to think about is good planning. Once you see your team and get a feel for it's make up then you can decide which one fits best.
Joe
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Post by davecisar on Apr 14, 2010 7:51:23 GMT -6
Coach, Since I've been on this site, I've seen plenty of people discuss MMP's like they are getting 15 a season. How many do you coaches get in a season? Maybe I have been blessed. Last season, I ended up with 2. I took turns during the season starting each one at FS. I also put them both on kickoff. That didn't hurt much because we mostly kicked onside. But at FS, I would play one all the way through to 8 plays and then I'd sub the other one for his 8. 16 Plays Per Game- In 10 game season usually 220+ or so plays We are a no-huddle team 100% of the time. When I coached the "A" team- chose from 150 kids of course ZERO mmp kids and no need to carry a big squad at all What level you coach at and how your teams are divided determines the number of mmp kids you will have every season. MMP kids are players who lack basic athleticism and/or aggressiveness and do not have even reasonable/fair success in one on one matchups with average players. Of course there are abberations etc but some good rules of thumb: Age 5-6- Does it matter? Play em all a bunch Age 7-9: "B" teams - "A" or traveling team selected and you get the remainder. Really depends on how big a group to choose from. In our league some teams had an in house league of 250 kids, the best 25 went to the "A" team. Means a lot of pretty good players left. When we had 150 kids, best 20 on the "A" my 25 kid squads- probably 5-8 mmp kids. OTOH is you only have 45 kids and the best 20 are left for "B" you are going to have a very high % of MMP kids, maybe 11-12 Where Im at now, we only have 1 team, we take first 25 that sign up, first come first served- lots of FIRST YEAR players- out of 25, usually 6-8 legit MMP kids in this format. Age 10-11. Fewer first year players. Format Im in now, 25 kids, 5-7 MMP kids. While you have fewer first year kids, the talent levels and maturity differences are pretty wide and the few beginners you get are behind. Age 12-13- Again fewer first year players just 2-3, BUT huge size differentials and kids that have gone into puberty. The good thing is most of your remainder has played and knows what to expect- but HUGE differences in athleticism. With 23- kids, 4-6 mmps |
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 14, 2010 9:46:53 GMT -6
Dave
Once again great post! I do have some questions. You must have 16 plays a game per player? How long are your quarters? Most games we need 6-8 plays per player. We are fortunate that usually we are winning early in games so we can get our players lots of PT. Our squads the last few years have been 24-27 players, & about 5-6 of those are MMP's. Coaching 14 U, usually it's the agressiveness and athletitism the kids lack. Through hard work in practice we seem to be able to bring these kids along as the season progresses. Last year we had 2 interesting MMP's. Both were 6th graders on an 8th grade team. They were there because of their size. One was absolutely horrible, at a preseason scrimage playing Dline he would literally run backwards. Good kid, worked hard but jeeeeeeeesh he was terrible. We continued to work hard with him, acepting nothing less then our standards. In our state playoff game he actually got a sack. The team was thrilled and showed him their pride. The other boy was a monster. 6'2" 245lbs, he was greener then new grass. He also is a little challenged. By mid season he really began to get a grasp of the game. We are expecting big things from him next season.
Joe
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Post by davecisar on Apr 14, 2010 10:14:06 GMT -6
10 Minute Quarters
We are No Huddle 100% of the time, so in non mercy rule games we are getting 51-55 offensive snaps. Have got as many as 71 in a game.
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 14, 2010 10:17:34 GMT -6
Dave
Wow, that's impressive. Here we have mercy rules, so quite often it restricts us.
Joe
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Post by coachdoug on Apr 14, 2010 10:50:25 GMT -6
Coach, Since I've been on this site, I've seen plenty of people discuss MMP's like they are getting 15 a season. How many do you coaches get in a season? Maybe I have been blessed. Last season, I ended up with 2. I took turns during the season starting each one at FS. I also put them both on kickoff. That didn't hurt much because we mostly kicked onside. But at FS, I would play one all the way through to 8 plays and then I'd sub the other one for his 8. Once you added in the all of the kickoffs (we averaged almost 40 points a game), then they were well above the league minimum of 8. The best part was that we had them off of defense before the other team could really make any adjustments to try to hurt us back there. I had 2 great corners, and we were strong up the middle. Once we got the plays out of the way, then I'd put my QB at FS and it was a win-win. He didn't have the start (even though he was good enough to), and could be on the sideline with me for the first part of the game after the offense came off of the field. This year though, I don't think I'll have any. I happen to be fortunate enough to coach in a league that splits the teams between competitive (D-1) and instructional (D-2). I'll probably only carry 18 kids and they all will play a vital role in what we're trying to accomplish. But I am curious as to how many MMP's are you coaches seeing on average per season? I have typically had rosters of anywhere from 24-34 kids. I try to rotate 15 or 16 "starters" on each side of the ball with about half of them playing on only one side of the ball. So, I end up with about 22-24 kids getting significant playing time with the first unit. That leaves about 5-10 kids most years that have to get worked into the game for their plays. The play requirement is on a sliding scale, but usually ends up being about 10 plays (sometimes its 12 for smaller rosters or 8 for larger rosters). Last year, for instance, we had a roster of 26 with 9 MPP kids (one of which was injured all season), and each had to get 10 plays most games, with a couple games where they needed 12 plays when we were missing some kids with injuries. Of the 8 that needed plays, we worked in 6 in our MPP offense and the other 2 at WR throughout the game. I know some coaches that only start 11 or 12 main guys and pretty much all of them play both ways, so even with a roster in the mid-20s, they have 12-14 kids that have to get plays, so it can be pretty burdensome. Also, in our league we can't count special teams plays (KO, KOR, and PAT, but punt/punt return do count) against the MPP requirement. |
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 14, 2010 12:54:41 GMT -6
Doug
First, I try to start as many guys one way as I can. The better players always go on Defense. Next, Goal line for me is a special team, so is our cover package. 6-5 Goal line is our 11 best players period.
Using these idea's cuts down on our 2 way guys. Most years there is really only 3-4 players that must go 2 ways. It helps us develope better depth. It also improves practice, we force our better players to work against each other. Typically in practice our kids are calling for us to go live when we thud. The compition makes everyone better.
Joe
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Post by ojowens411 on Apr 14, 2010 13:05:26 GMT -6
wow...I am seriously impressed. I used to coach in a league that didn't have a minimum amount of plays...in fact the kids weren't required to play at all...but on my largest team 26 kids, I made sure everyone played at least 4 plays a game. That was my rule.
From reading these posts over the past few months, I believe that all of the coaches that responded have been sucessful in staying competitive with that many MMP's it is truly impressive and what you are doing for the kids (by playing them) is immeasurable
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Post by coachdoug on Apr 14, 2010 13:09:06 GMT -6
10 Minute Quarters We are No Huddle 100% of the time, so in non mercy rule games we are getting 51-55 offensive snaps. Have got as many as 71 in a game. Yean, that's one of the big reasons I'm moving to 100% no huddle this coming season. That, and the increased reps and conditioning benefits from practicing at a higher pace as well. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 14, 2010 17:42:51 GMT -6
This is one of the many Qs I can answer only from intention, not observation or experience. Rotate MPPs at WR and have them sprint down the field in an attempt to wear out the opposition's CBs. If they start ignoring your sprinting MPP WRs, be prepared to make them pay by throwing it deep (although you may have to sneak a starter back in at the streaking WR position unnoticed for this to work. This strategy has been advocated by John Reed. What I want is similar to, but not the same as, the above. It would not be a way to get in all, maybe not even most, of MPPs, but some. In a fly offense, where one flanker is in fast motion on, say, 80% of snaps, the flies are going to get winded and need to be spelled. Combine that with the fact that the fly end run would be a constraint play that a competent defense could always stop cold if they tried to -- that it would operate more as a threat to get them to weaken elsewhere -- and that the fly would only rarely get the ball -- and it seems like an ideal place to rotate MPPs in. Of course the flanker could also be a receiver, and what is the defense going to do -- see who's lined up there on this down and take a chance that Jimmy or Joe has no hands? No, if they have a "corn dog" on they'll decide it tactically in their huddle rather than contingent on who's playing opposite them. Plus, the fly (flanker) is a real position where they'll get a chance to crack back and do other stuff, which a MPP would get a chance to either do well or stuff up usually without risking a loss on the play, at worst sacrificing a possible gain. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Apr 15, 2010 7:41:37 GMT -6
At this point this year, I am wishing I had more MMPs and just players in general, because we only have 17 players (9-man football) and by the time you subtract the sthmatics, the 6 kids forced to play on the line, I have2 MMPs and not a lot of flexibility.
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Post by pantherfb10 on Apr 16, 2010 20:07:02 GMT -6
I substitute mine in at slot WR, and sometimes X or Z depending on if it is a run play or a very simple pass play I usually call at least one to them a game which they usually catch for a 5-6 yrd gain. I substitute the 2nd team line and QB on the first drive of the second half, with 12 minute quarters with a script so they can usually get 7-9 plays at a minumum in a game, most of the time ther are around 15-18. Once we get up by 17+ they all play. I do put mine in at line and safety on Defense, that way they are contributing and feel part of the team, but at the same time dont hurt us
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Post by davecisar on Apr 17, 2010 7:30:18 GMT -6
A "true"mmp kid even with GREAT coaching has zero chance of ever catching a ball. What you are describing is a weaker player, not what most of us here call a mmp.
We have a coach that all he does is track mmps, we are no huddle
]The first time we see that kid come in at safety, we isolate him and throw, even at age 7-9
In our league there is no way you can play your mmp kids at safety without paying for it big.
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Post by daveinsarasota on Apr 19, 2010 15:46:30 GMT -6
I agree with the no huddle or at least quick huddle offense...our offense is now trimmed to the following:
inside veer
outside veer
cutback
power
speed option
veer pass
bootleg
speed pass
slip pass
....and automatics when receiver signals a mismatch...
I can hand signal the play to the qb, and he can call it at the line...and 80% of the time, we are running inside veer (red), outside veer (black), cutback (white), and veer pass (90 red)...
Few plays also allow for more success to put in a second line, or even get guys plays a WR (we will actually throw to them)...
I disagree, however, with MPPs on defense, and also FIRMLY disagree with Bear Crawling. I know some guys have been successful with this, but this technique, to me, is insulting. A parent should consider having the kid play another sport if he is required to bear crawl, so as to not inflict damage to the teams success...
Just an opinion....
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 19, 2010 20:56:53 GMT -6
I disagree, however, with MPPs on defense, and also FIRMLY disagree with Bear Crawling. I know some guys have been successful with this, but this technique, to me, is insulting. A parent should consider having the kid play another sport if he is required to bear crawl, so as to not inflict damage to the teams success... "Submarining" used to be considered a standard defensive tactic at high levels of play. If it's not football, what were they playing then? |
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Post by davecisar on Apr 20, 2010 6:12:05 GMT -6
I think it is a travesty to split a kid out with zero intentions of throwing to him. Several teams I know do that, the mmps rotate at wide out. We have film, we watch warm ups, we know which kids have zero chance of catching the ball and who wont see the ball- so we wont bother covering him- we play 11 on 10. It's embarassing for that player, he's just a decoration IMO. A true mmp kid- not just a weaker player does not catch the ball- he has 2 left feet, has little body control etc. Everyone has them unless you are a cut or select team or run them off.
At worst case, we call split- we split the difference- he's split out 20 yards we split the difference at 10.
Our BCs have an offensive and defensive position and rarely play just one side of the ball in a game. We stunt off of them and we have had them make tackles, cause turnovers and even recover fumbles due to the proximity they are to the ball and the fact under center teams are going to put the ball on the ground right at their feet.
With the constant encouragement we offer and letting them and the entire team understannd how important a role they play in the success of our scheme, they take great pride in their role. We do view it as an "entry level" position, most dont stay there for their entire "careers". Great training and life lessons, you learn to pay your dues, not start at the top. With over 95% retention over the last 14 seasons using this, it has been very effective in engaging kids and getting them interested and on the field. We start 2 of them and 4 others rotate in groups of 2, every 2 plays. So they get involved in the game from the opening snap, not waiting until the game is out of reach or when nothing counts etc
If my kid was split out as a decoration to not do anything, I would move him to another team and good luck getting all the mmps in rotating in at one position. Our leagues rule is 16 plays, do the math if you have 6 or 8 mmp kids.
Here if you have a no huddle system where a color is one play- red is inside veer you would get mauled, everyone scouts and a play you call over and over again with just a color, everyone is going to have that down in the first quarter.
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Post by daveinsarasota on Apr 20, 2010 7:46:48 GMT -6
I think it is a travesty to split a kid out with zero intentions of throwing to him. Several teams I know do that, the mmps rotate at wide out. We have film, we watch warm ups, we know which kids have zero chance of catching the ball and who wont see the ball- so we wont bother covering him- we play 11 on 10. It's embarassing for that player, he's just a decoration IMO. A true mmp kid- not just a weaker player does not catch the ball- he has 2 left feet, has little body control etc. Everyone has them unless you are a cut or select team or run them off. At worst case, we call split- we split the difference- he's split out 20 yards we split the difference at 10. Our BCs have an offensive and defensive position and rarely play just one side of the ball in a game. We stunt off of them and we have had them make tackles, cause turnovers and even recover fumbles due to the proximity they are to the ball and the fact under center teams are going to put the ball on the ground right at their feet. With the constant encouragement we offer and letting them and the entire team understannd how important a role they play in the success of our scheme, they take great pride in their role. We do view it as an "entry level" position, most dont stay there for their entire "careers". Great training and life lessons, you learn to pay your dues, not start at the top. With over 95% retention over the last 14 seasons using this, it has been very effective in engaging kids and getting them interested and on the field. We start 2 of them and 4 others rotate in groups of 2, every 2 plays. So they get involved in the game from the opening snap, not waiting until the game is out of reach or when nothing counts etc If my kid was split out as a decoration to not do anything, I would move him to another team and good luck getting all the mmps in rotating in at one position. Our leagues rule is 16 plays, do the math if you have 6 or 8 mmp kids. Here if you have a no huddle system where a color is one play- red is inside veer you would get mauled, everyone scouts and a play you call over and over again with just a color, everyone is going to have that down in the first quarter. We disguise it with the call at the line, but if they do pick up on it, they still have to play control defense. For Pete's sake, you don't just walk to the line and call Red r, or Red L...please.... You incorporate red and black into the call, but have a pre set hot work which indicates the next call is the play...and you change it every quarter. Inside Veer EVEN IF THEY KNOW IT IS COMING, requires someone to take FULL responsiblity of the dive...the QB...the pitch...and the deep third. This to both sides of the ball...so you are controlling the behavior of 8 players on defense before the ball is snapped. I like those odds... We rep this play over, and over and over again. We know for a fact, from many years of experience...that the DT will eventually get tired of taking the dive...the LBs will start to flow aggressively to inside veer which allows for the cutback...the DE will invariably think he needs to get upfield, and the LB will overplay the pitch...oh...and the CB will eventually ignore his deep third. The veer is a boring offense with a lot of repetition. The excitement, and the big plays happen when the opponent shirks his repsonsiblilty, and invariably that is the case. We audible at the line, 60 to 70% of the time, depending on what front they give. We would not get mauled. We do not get mauled. Teams know EXACLTY what we are going to run, yet we continuously turn out winning teams. Game film does not key them in on what we do as a pre-snap read. Oh, and by the way...I don't know where in my post I said I split guys out with zero intentions of throwing to them. |
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Post by davecisar on Apr 20, 2010 8:11:13 GMT -6
True MMP kids are NOT catching the ball. If they are- they arent true MMP kids
Everyone has them when you DONT cut, dont run kids off, dont select
When you split those kids out, they arent catching the ball and almost no one really tries to throw to the true MMP kid. We film, we watch the pre game, we know who is getting the ball and who can and cant catch it. We dont bother covering the non threats so we can play 11 vs 10. Per Doug and others- true MMPs on no cut, no select teams, you arent going to get them all in at wide out to get 6-8 kids their plays. If you did that vs us, we like the 11 vs 10 numbers we have on defense. Im not covering the deep 1/3, no problem putting the game in the hands of a true mmp player.
Why dont you explain your no huddle system for all of us.
If I know what you are going to run and to which side, HUGE advantage.
I was an option coach and player for MANY years being from Nebraska before I moved to what Im doing now.
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Post by daveinsarasota on Apr 20, 2010 8:28:59 GMT -6
True MMP kids are NOT catching the ball. If they are- they arent true MMP kids Everyone has them when you DONT cut, dont run kids off, dont select When you split those kids out, they arent catching the ball and almost no one really tries to throw to the true MMP kid. We film, we watch the pre game, we know who is getting the ball and who can and cant catch it. We dont bother covering the non threats so we can play 11 vs 10. Why dont you explain your no huddle system for all of us. If I know what you are going to run and to which side, HUGE advantage. I was an option coach and player for MANY years being from Nebraska before I moved to what Im doing now. Perhaps the guys we split out aren't MPP kids, although they lack the size, or some other intangibles to do other things...all of the guys I split out can catch. So perhaps that needs clarification. Some players are too small to play line, can't play in the backifield...can't tackle... but they can catch the ball. Now...if they absolutley can't catch the ball or do other things, I strongly recommend to the parents that their kid should not play football... As for my no huddle system...I clarified it (some) in my previous post... It varies from game to game, but we have hot words that we use. We change them every quarter, and they rarley get picked up on... Example: Blue - 14 red, fire black 13, Blue - 14 red, fire black 13 - hut...hut...(you get the point) In this example, the hot word was fire, so the call is outside veer to the left (the 13, or odd number, is the indicator to take it to the left).... Next quarter, we change the hot word to blue. So in the second quarter the play with the same call at the line, would be inside veer to the right (the even number indicating the right). Also, that is not how it would be done all the time...I test thigns at practice to see what works, what hot words are effective, and what is easier to understand. The example provided is VERY general... Our QB knows to change the play at the line, so if I signal to him that we want inside veer right, and as we approach, the B gap is stacked, he knows to call outside veer... If they stack the strongside, he take the original called play to the other side. |
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 20, 2010 8:36:35 GMT -6
Dave
I agree with you 100%. Nothing is more humiliating to a player then busting his butt all week in practice, only to be put in as a wideout and out of any plays. If a player works hard for us he should play regardless of ability.
Last season we made an offensive unit out of our MMP's. This was great for those players. They took great pride in executing well. We would give them a 4 play series with no huddle. We could use our regular no huddle calls to change plays. In 5 of 6 games we used this unit they scored on the first series. They knew they were going to start each half, so their play was never an after thought. It really made things easy for us. Granted it was a little gimmicky(empty jet motion & jet sweep or PAP), but our players loved it. We even threw one of those slow wideouts a TD!
Joe
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Post by daveinsarasota on Apr 20, 2010 8:43:40 GMT -6
Dave I agree with you 100%. Nothing is more humiliating to a player then busting his butt all week in practice, only to be put in as a wideout and out of any plays. If a player works hard for us he should play regardless of ability. Last season we made an offensive unit out of our MMP's. This was great for those players. They took great pride in executing well. We would give them a 4 play series with no huddle. We could use our regular no huddle calls to change plays. In 5 of 6 games we used this unit they scored on the first series. They knew they were going to start each half, so their play was never an after thought. It really made things easy for us. Granted it was a little gimmicky(empty jet motion & jet sweep or PAP), but our players loved it. We even threw one of those slow wideouts a TD! Joe I will tell you what is just as humiliating as using a wideout as window dressing...having a guy crawl around like a mud dobber.... |
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Post by davecisar on Apr 20, 2010 9:19:24 GMT -6
True MMP kids are NOT catching the ball. If they are- they arent true MMP kids Everyone has them when you DONT cut, dont run kids off, dont select When you split those kids out, they arent catching the ball and almost no one really tries to throw to the true MMP kid. We film, we watch the pre game, we know who is getting the ball and who can and cant catch it. We dont bother covering th e non threats so we can play 11 vs 10. Why dont you explain your no huddle system for all of us. If I know what you are going to run and to which side, HUGE advantage. I was an option coach and player for MANY years being from Nebraska before I moved to what Im doing now. Perhaps the guys we split out aren't MPP kids, although they lack the size, or some other intangibles to do other things...all of the guys I split out can catch. So perhaps that needs clarification. Some players are too small to play line, can't play in the backifield...can't tackle... but they can catch the ball. Now...if they absolutley can't catch the ball or do other things, I strongly recommend to the parents that their kid should not play football... As for my no huddle system...I clarified it (some) in my previous post... It varies from game to game, but we have hot words that we use. We change them every quarter, and they rarley get picked up on... Example: Blue - 14 red, fire black 13, Blue - 14 red, fire black 13 - hut...hut...(you get the point) In this example, the hot word was fire, so the call is outside veer to the left (the 13, or odd number, is the indicator to take it to the left).... Next quarter, we change the hot word to blue. So in the second quarter the play with the same call at the line, would be inside veer to the right (the even number indicating the right). Also, that is not how it would be done all the time...I test thigns at practice to see what works, what hot words are effective, and what is easier to understand. The example provided is VERY general... Our QB knows to change the play at the line, so if I signal to him that we want inside veer right, and as we approach, the B gap is stacked, he knows to call outside veer... If they stack the strongside, he take the original called play to the other side. I thought the TOPIC was : Minimum Play Strategies- How to get true MMP kids onto the field. Sounds like you dont have any true MMP kids or are changing your tune. I dont CARE if a kid has zero athletic ability or cant catch, I think he can gain a lot by playing youth football. Some of the very worst players on my teams probably benefited the most from their experience. They learn about commitment, overcoming obstacles, trust, hard work and quite often end up making more progress than them or anyone else thought they would. Would our team be better off from a competitive standpoint if these kids werent on our team? SURE, but that's not what I'm in it for. Im not going to tell a kid or parent that a kid cant play football if he wants to be there and shows up for practice just so I can win more games or not have to worry about how Im going to get him on the field. I think that is just awful, that is a conversation I'm not going to have and flys in the face of why Im coaching youth football. Coaching those kids is hard and frustrating, but many of them love it and get a ton out of the experience. An experience they wont get anywhere else, something that can be life changing for them and bearcrawling ( and playing an offensive position as well) is better than not playing at all. ALL of my bearcrawlers carried the ball at least 1 time in 13 of the 14 seasons Ive been doing it this way. I doubt any of them would tell you it would have been better had they not played. We get them their plays on defense and a when we are ahead we put them in on offense as well. Since weve won over 80% of our games by mercy rule over the last 14 seasons, that means most of them play both sides of the ball in nearly every game. In the 17 games we lost in that span, they may have played just defense and maybe a special teams or offensive snap or 2, BUT they practice both sides of the ball and we dont lose them or kick them off the team- ask them to leave. |
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Post by davecisar on Apr 20, 2010 9:24:23 GMT -6
OK so if he calls Black 13 and you run to the 3 hole/left, Im not going to know after one sequence that Black is the Hot key?
If that works where you live, keep running it.
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Post by mhcoach on Apr 20, 2010 9:40:56 GMT -6
D I S
Lol.... a mud dobber...... I guess that goes along with being a Praire Dog Dlineman or a Fire Drill Boy(stop drop & roll)
We tend to play very few of those type players on Defense. I don't beleive in coaching those techniques either. We just coach'em all up the same. Usually as the season progresses those players will get reps in games on D. They are closely watched, reviewed on film and coached up.
Last season we had 6 MMP's, 3 of those would have been starters on any other team in our league. We take great pride in coaching all our kids up. The slow wide receiver who caught the TD, was simply physically outclassed at our age group. Even so, we made sure he got reps and was an intergral part of the team.
Personally I look at it like this:
Every team needs to be a team, every player part of that team. This is what we work to acheive.
BTW I am still laughing at MUD DOBBER
Joe
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Post by daveinsarasota on Apr 20, 2010 9:50:29 GMT -6
OK so if he calls Black 13 and you run to the 3 hole/left, Im not going to know after one sequence that Black is the Hot key? If that works where you live, keep running it. Black was not the hot word in that example...fire was...and it is not 3 hole...it is odd (right) or even (left) numbers... BLACK is the hole...the number is the side...and there is a hot word... The example that I gave used FIRE as the hot word. As I said before, it was a GENERAL EXAMPLE... I am sure how it is actually going to be called this year...but the general philosophy is to incorporate a hot word, have two plays get called, have at least one nonsense word, as we call it... The QB can say anything he wants, as long as two plays are called at the line, and one will follow the hot word...WHICH CHANGES every quarter. Good luck trying to decipher it... Dave - I understand that you are a successful coach...but you are not the only one out there who knows what they are doing. My no-huddle/audible system is a hybrid of George Thole's and our local high school coach, who has been at our school since 1981... And by the way...regarding MPPs....I am not changing my tune. The players I described will get the minimum number of plays...they are not as effestive as the ones, but at least they can stalk block, and possibly catch if need be. If a coach decides not to cover the guy out wide...so be it. We WILL throw to that kid...and at some point, he WILL catch it...even if we only get a few yards. |
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Post by davecisar on Apr 20, 2010 10:00:15 GMT -6
Dave,
A difference in philosophies, I dont tell kids they shouldnt play just because they cant provide team value in the scheme I want to run or make it tough for me to get them in the game. I dont "cut" non football players.
I adapt the scheme so they can get on the field and add team value. I dont run what I want to run or ran in HS or College, I have to run something that will get them all on the field.
We each have our own mission and goals as to why we coach, ours differ by a very wide margin. Everyone has their own motivations and methods.
Those kids you discard from your team because you dont have a scheme that can accomodate them- for me every one of them will eventually carry the ball and play offense, in the meanwhile they are getting trained and coached up on both sides of the ball and in TIGHT games, will be playing most of their reps on defense as BCs. My guess is they like that a lot more than not being on the team, like how you do it per your post.
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