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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 6, 2009 9:33:28 GMT -6
Anyone else find it ridiculously unprofessional how he yells at his assistant coaches on the sidelines? I understand ripping players, but ripping your coaches in front of everyone helps nothing.
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Post by phantom on Dec 6, 2009 9:38:46 GMT -6
I'm a longtime assistant and we have a standing joke on our staff- if you haven't been fired on the sideline twice you're still a rookie. Things happen fast. There's a lot of immediacy and sometimes not time for "Please" and "Thank you". This is no business for the thin-skinned.
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Post by cc on Dec 6, 2009 9:57:13 GMT -6
Have you seen Pulp Fiction? It's like the WOLF. We don't have time for pretty please...
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 6, 2009 10:11:04 GMT -6
Anyone else find it ridiculously unprofessional how he yells at his assistant coaches on the sidelines? I understand ripping players, but ripping your coaches in front of everyone helps nothing. Keep in mind that they are playing in front of 80,000+ people. The noise levels are high, which tends to cause the voices to be up and the adrenaline up for an extended time frame...leading to more heated exchanges than those held in front of a few thousand |
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Post by phantom on Dec 6, 2009 10:15:28 GMT -6
Anyone else find it ridiculously unprofessional how he yells at his assistant coaches on the sidelines? I understand ripping players, but ripping your coaches in front of everyone helps nothing. Keep in mind that they are playing in front of 80,000+ people. The noise levels are high, which tends to cause the voices to be up and the adrenaline up for an extended time frame...leading to more heated exchanges than those held in front of a few thousand Great point. |
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Post by brophy on Dec 6, 2009 10:23:21 GMT -6
Never mind that....I want to find out what kind of gum he's chewing
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Post by cqmiller on Dec 6, 2009 11:31:11 GMT -6
How do you get your team to play with a little fire, intensity, and a sense of "We will kill anybody that gets in our way!"?
Have a Head Coach that will do the same.
Anyone else notice that the "nice" coaches are hardly ever the ones playing in the BCS games and the Super Bowl? Even Pete Carroll at USC, even though he has a lot of moments where you think he is the "nice coach", look at him on the sideline in a close and heated game... he's not so nice when the $h!t hits the fan. All of the nice NFL coaches are the ones that have the "can't win in the playoffs" stigma, and all of the "He's a mean SOB" coaches are the ones who go to the superbowl each year.
Football is about the only sport left where it still comes down to the team with the meanest mentality will prevail. Noticing it at the high school level as well. If kids play for a coach who they aren't at least a little bit afraid of... then they never go very far. There is no accountability for playing poorly, softly, or not giving your best. "Try harder Jimmy..." just isn't gonna cut it if you want to be an elite team.
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hawke
Sophomore Member
Posts: 209
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Post by hawke on Dec 6, 2009 11:39:04 GMT -6
There are a number of sports where it takes a particular athletic skill to do well but no sport engages all the skills of those sports as does football. The key to being competitve in football therefore comes down to everyone having a "werewolf mentality" in practice, on game, on the sidelines, where and when ever. And if you "moon the werewolf" look out. It's the nature of the game.
Hawke
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Post by coachm on Dec 6, 2009 11:46:33 GMT -6
saw Kelly give it to his QB and kicker yesterday at the Cincy - Pitt game.
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Post by doublewing on Dec 6, 2009 11:52:00 GMT -6
the assistants coach the players and the HC coaches the coaches!
we always want the HC to be a stand up guy and take the blame...."the buck stops w/ me"
in our businees you have to delegate
so expectations are for the assistants to get the job done
emptybackfield your perception will change when you become a HC
the expectations and pressure mounts
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Post by coachtut on Dec 6, 2009 12:17:20 GMT -6
Never mind that....I want to find out what kind of gum he's chewing hahahaha No kidding. |
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Post by brophy on Dec 6, 2009 12:40:36 GMT -6
 The key to being competitve in football therefore comes down to everyone having a "werewolf mentality" in practice, on game, on the sidelines, where and when ever. And if you "moon the werewolf" look out. It's the nature of the game. Hawke c'mon, coach! This is a COACHING message board...we don't need a bunch of Twilight references! Lol |
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Post by khalfie on Dec 6, 2009 12:45:33 GMT -6
I always thought...
The HC tearing the Asst. a new a-hole, was beneficial to the Asst. because he can now immediately turn to that player and rip him one... with that player fully knowing, it was a message sent down from the head man himself...
But again... relationships have to be such, that HC and Assistants are brothers in arms, in which each knows... what said is business, and not reflective of how we feel about each other personally.
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Post by mariner42 on Dec 6, 2009 12:49:50 GMT -6
I think there's a balance. Our JV HC had a terrible habit of ripping his DC in front of EVERYONE, which really did affect the sideline atmosphere for the kids. It's one thing to yell for them to quit running a particular stunt or holler at them for not removing Billy from the KOR squad, but it's another to stand there shouting that you have "the worst f***ing DC in the country".
Generally I do my mean ol' cuss act during the week, come gametime I do my best to keep an even keel.
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Post by brophy on Dec 6, 2009 13:01:43 GMT -6
Before this gets out of hand with carte blanche justifications for behaving like an a** and having no professional tact whatsoever, I'm pretty sure Pelini doesn't rip/tear up people just because he's frustrated. The earful he gave to Lee was after the failed speed option down conversion early in the 2nd half. I could be wrong but it looked as though he was explaining the important elements of the drive, not telling him he was a worthless POS
If you 'need' to humiliate a coworker in public like that, you shouldn't have that person on staff.
Secondly, none of that demonstrative BS is necessary if coaches have done their actual job during the week. I don't put a lot of stock into the whooping and hollering nonsense that others find necessary 'to show that they care'.
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Post by davecisar on Dec 6, 2009 13:07:19 GMT -6
From what I understand living in Lincoln and reading what is available, Bo has a HUGE "emotional bank account balance" with each of these guys, to use a Steven Covey term. He defends them to no end and takes all the blame for anything that goes wrong, they love the guy. Cotton had been fired from NU and ISU and was out of football for a year, Ron Brown was out of football for 4 years, Mike Ekler and Papuchis were GAs for 3 years at various spots with him, Watkins and Gilmore were with the callahan group and were thought to be on the way out, Carl is his brother who was a HS coach until Solich picked him up at Ohio etc From what I understand they are all very close and have a lot of fun with each other at practice. Tom Osborne rarely got flustered, but everyone is different. Big game, huge underdog, very few weapons and zero margin for error- they came pretty close. Sure it has to be frustrating to have such a great defense paired with an equally abysmal offense. He may have been telling ZAch to attack the DE on the option instead of pitching so early into a no-gain, who knows. Maybe he was reminding him we were in max slowdown, instead he snapped the ball with 11 tics left on the 25 second clock- 11 seconds less texas would have had in a game that was won with 1 second left etc Yep sure he has some mighty strong jaw muscles from all the gum chewing.  |
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 6, 2009 13:08:17 GMT -6
Exactly
Exactly
I have never been around a HC that has done that to me or anybody else on the staff's I have been a part of....I don't even know what I would do if I was confronted on the sideline like that..I suppose it would depend on my relationship w/ the coach
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Post by davecisar on Dec 6, 2009 13:22:24 GMT -6
Secondly, none of that demonstrative BS is necessary if coaches have done their actual job during the week. I don't put a lot of stock into the whooping and hollering nonsense that others find necessary 'to show that they care'. Agreed But somehow fans and parents love it- somehow those guys care more is often what they think. I dont think it is helpful in many circumstances and not my style at all. I dont want my kids too far up or too far down, so I try and do the same. |
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Post by spreadattack on Dec 6, 2009 13:38:30 GMT -6
I don't have a problem with Pellini doing it, but I also don't know what he's saying necessarily. A few points:
1) If you yell just to vent and to feel like a bigger man and don't say anything constructive about football, then you're wasting your time and just being arrogant
2) If you need to raise your voice to get a particular football message across to a coach or player, then fine
3) The 80,000+ thing is a good point. It's also something to keep in mind for HS, etc. If you ball someone out at a JV game you should just know that every parent and official and opposing guy will hear. Maybe that's what you want -- can really get the message across -- but if you don't want them hearing you or taking it the wrong way. I.e. Pellini no doubt has a big emotional bank and his players would probably give it all for him, but if he was a JV guy his mom or the principal might not know that. Again, not saying that should affect things, but you should just know it. Pellini can scream and no one else would hear.
4) And yelling at assistants is tricky. There are doubtless ways to do it that fires everyone up and doesn't leave your assistant with no credibility. I was around a HC who could rip an assistant because, and he made this clear, he wasn't getting his guys to do their job. If done correctly the players will try to "stand up" for their assistants. If you just rip your assistant and call him a dumbass, how effective do you think he'll be with the players?
It's also just depends who you are. That looks like Pellini's style. You shouldn't do it if it's not yours. Tom Osborne was a pretty good coach and he was pretty mellow. I'm not a big screamer but I know people who are and it's effective. I'm also of the belief that if you don't do it much it's more effective when you do do it.
And, the ultimate rule for yelling: Know what you're talking about. If you have a good point then yelling can be effective. But nothing is worse than someone who yells who doesn't know what they are talking about.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 6, 2009 13:46:57 GMT -6
Bottom line; the sh-t rolls down hill, there's no way around it.
Pelini is the one who had to talk to the media after the game, he's the one who has to answer to the boosters, admin., and the fans. The assistants don't.
So, if he gets into his assistants face during a heated game with 80,000+ people screaming, it's completely understandable. If you have a thin-skin, coaching isn't for you. It doesn't matter what sport you're involved in; you're going to take flak from somewhere and you'd better be prepared to deal with it.
I don't agree with the statement that the kids need to be afraid of you in order to win. They'd better understand that there's consequences from the coaching staff for whatever reason. You blow an assignment, drop the football, etc..etc.. then you're not going to play and that's what they should be afraid of. Sitting on the bench is what they should be afraid of, not a coach's reaction or temperament. Losing a football game because of poor execution of laziness is something to be afraid of. If they're not afraid of the prospect of sitting their butts on the bench or losing a ball game, then they shouldn't (and won't) be playing for you.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 6, 2009 13:49:09 GMT -6
I have messed up on the past on the sidelines and gotten ripped for it and I have had players I coached mess up in the game and gotten ripped for it on the sidelines. It's part of it. Get use to it. I have no problem with a HC getting on your a$$ if you screw up during a game, it is your job to have your players prepared and know your role as well. If something happens during a game and you are responsible for it then guess what, you didn't do your job and someone should let you know. We're talking about football here, it's not exactly a very calm and relaxed environment to work in. Can't take your boss letting you know your not doing your job well then you have bigger issues than we could sort out on a coaching message board.
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Post by emptybackfield on Dec 6, 2009 15:35:05 GMT -6
I wasn't talking about ripping players, you see that from almost every coach. I'm talking about the actions towards his staff. When the reciever was called out of bounds on that 3rd down play after the big punt return in the 4th quarter, he looked at Shawn Watson like "what the F are you doing, my defense is playing it's ass off and you can't move the ball 10 yards to score a TD"
Like you guys said, every coach has their own ways of motivating both players and coaches, I guess this just happens to be his.
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Post by redfish on Dec 6, 2009 20:15:01 GMT -6
My HC will definitely let you know if you are screwing up and he holds me and the rest of the staff to a very high standard. I wouldn't have it any other way. If it needs to be said during the game, then he's going to let it rip. It's not personal, its all about winning and we understand that because of the coach that he is.
We all respect him and I don't think there are very many staffs that are as loyal as we are.
What I really like is how he rips us in practice to motivate the players. Occasionally, when the players screw something up, he will rip me or one of the other assistants about something that he KNOWS we have been coaching. IE - "Holy crap, coach do you mean to tell me that you can't make these guys understand that they have to check their inside gap first before........!" I usually say,"I'll work harder on that, coach." Well, the kids know they are supposed to do that and thankfully they respond to it. Some of the others will get on the kid in question to get him to tighten up. They do laugh about it with me later,though.
Now, if coach calls me aside during a water break to rip me, he'll say, "Coach Redfish, let me ask you a question." Then I know I'm about to get blistered.
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Post by cqmiller on Dec 6, 2009 20:34:40 GMT -6
If there is no accountability for not doing your job well... you won't do your job well.
Kinda like all this stuff going on in schools nowadays! No accountability on kids for doing well on NCLB tests... they don't do them well. Amazing how a little bit of personal responsibility motivates.
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Post by davecisar on Dec 6, 2009 20:47:24 GMT -6
If there is no accountability for not doing your job well... you won't do your job well. Kinda like all this stuff going on in schools nowadays! No accountability on kids for doing well on NCLB tests... they don't do them well. Amazing how a little bit of personal responsibility motivates. What has been the difference in LSUs defense since Pelini left? |
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rlhair
Sophomore Member
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Post by rlhair on Dec 6, 2009 21:06:48 GMT -6
Everybody has different personalities and different styles. There have been some pretty successful coaches who didn't need to use yelling at players or assistants to get them motivated at any time. I believe there is an approriate time and place to handle mistakes made by players and coaches. Ripping them on the sideline is not ususally my way of doing, but it doesn't mean I am any less intense.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 6, 2009 21:56:15 GMT -6
If there is no accountability for not doing your job well... you won't do your job well. Kinda like all this stuff going on in schools nowadays! No accountability on kids for doing well on NCLB tests... they don't do them well. Amazing how a little bit of personal responsibility motivates. What has been the difference in LSUs defense since Pelini left? This year they were satisfactory...last year was an abysmal failed attempt at co-coordinators. |
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Post by cqmiller on Dec 6, 2009 22:46:45 GMT -6
If there is no accountability for not doing your job well... you won't do your job well. Kinda like all this stuff going on in schools nowadays! No accountability on kids for doing well on NCLB tests... they don't do them well. Amazing how a little bit of personal responsibility motivates. What has been the difference in LSUs defense since Pelini left? Last year they were awful!!!! They were not good enough on defense to help out they young QB they had and as a result, they were forced to throw in bad situations which led to Lee throwing more TD's to the wrong team than his own. This year they got better, but since Pelini left, they haven't been anywhere near the same. Chavis has a different mentality and style, and hopefully he can get them back on track, but Pelini is a heck of a defensive coach. He knows how to teach the kids how to play football. They haven't been as physical, aggressive, or smart since he left. Mistakes, out of position, passive at times. All things that the Nebraska defense is not! |
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Post by davecisar on Dec 7, 2009 5:35:01 GMT -6
Ok so he gets to NU in 2003 takes an awful defense and turns them into a top 12 unit in just 1 season, he leaves, the defense goes back down in the dumpster. Did a great job at OU, defense was pretty good before he got there, good after he left. At LSU the defense wasnt great before he got there, was great while he was there (Nat Championship) and now isnt as good again. The NU defense was one of the absolute worst in the nation (#115) before he got there in 2008 and now is #2, one of the best. If you had to suffer through going to the games like I did, the transformation is nothing short of amazing, the level of play. There seems to be a pattern here. Just trying to figure out what hes got that no one else has? He has a track record that is pretty compelling BUT:
The OC has a bit of a different track record:
Since 2000, Watson has been an offensive coordinator nine seasons in the Big 12. At Colorado (2000 to ’05), and at Nebraska (2007 to ’09). His standing in the Big 12 offensive rankings:
• ’00: 8th in total offense, 10th in scoring offense
• ’01: 2nd, 4th
• ’02: 9th, 9th
• ’03: 9th, 8th
• ’04: 9th, 9th
• ’05: 8th, 9th
• ’07: 5th, 8th
• ’08: 6th, 6th
• ’09: 11th, 8th
We saw you cant win at the highest levels with just defense and special teams alone. Watson is a very nice and great hardworking guy, but his track record is fairly consistent as well. Hopefully they can at least be past the middle of the pack in a 12 team conference.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 7, 2009 9:36:47 GMT -6
I will say there have been times on the sideline where I have taken an a-- chewing from an HC/OC that I didn't take well. I was coaching OL and they were doing a good job in pass pro, especially with the 3 step game. We were slide protecting and really getting after the DL, but really relying on the QB getting the ball of on the 3rd step. But, the QBs were holding the ball too long and they weren't setting their feet.
The HC /OC was getting on me about it, I kept my mouth shut and coached the OL on the sidelines.
After the game, in the office, we had a heated conversation about it, but in the end, he saw my view point and we went from there.
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