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Post by airraider on Nov 10, 2009 9:21:52 GMT -6
What possible implications could arise from a meeting behind closed doors, where either the Principal or AD went and told the parties involved what was said in the meeting?
Some of you may know about this, but for those of you who do not...
Had a meeting in Principal's office with him and AD on the subject of some of my assistant coaches.
I made the comment that I did not trust them to show up for their duties.
The next day.. after practice those coaches call a meeting.. a meeting in which I get cussed at pretty hard for saying I don't trust them...
The ones cussing where not even the ones I meant..
But.. the point is.. either my AD or Principal took information that I said behind closed doors and leaked it to those involved..
May not be criminal.. but dang sure is not ethical.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Nov 10, 2009 9:29:49 GMT -6
Air- are you having any fun at all?
man, you really should think about resigning from that deal and calling it a day. It just sounds like theres a grey cloud over that whole job. shame as I know you were excited bout it originally.
I would imagine that your view of being a HC is that "its overrated" right about now. I had a boss that used to tell me that all of the time.
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Post by coach31 on Nov 10, 2009 9:30:27 GMT -6
Raider,
GET OUT. If either of those people want you to fail you are in over your head. Find a place where your efforts will be apprciated
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Post by phantom on Nov 10, 2009 9:37:09 GMT -6
What possible implications could arise from a meeting behind closed doors, where either the Principal or AD went and told the parties involved what was said in the meeting? Some of you may know about this, but for those of you who do not... Had a meeting in Principal's office with him and AD on the subject of some of my assistant coaches. I made the comment that I did not trust them to show up for their duties. The next day.. after practice those coaches call a meeting.. a meeting in which I get cussed at pretty hard for saying I don't trust them... The ones cussing where not even the ones I meant.. But.. the point is.. either my AD or Principal took information that I said behind closed doors and leaked it to those involved.. May not be criminal.. but dang sure is not ethical. Ethical? No. What can you do about it? Well, if memory serves me you're in your first year there so you lack tenure. You're in Louisiana so you don't have a union. What can you do? Get the he!! out of there at the end of the year. Now, about what your assistants were told- why did he have to tell them that? Why didn't they already know that? The HC who I worked for for 20 years retired after the 2008 season. He was a cantankerous individual (well, not was, is. He retired. He didn't die). We assistants used to joke that you were still a rookie until you've been fired on the sideline during a game twice. We always knew where we stood, though. No drama or guesswork. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 10, 2009 9:38:16 GMT -6
Air- are you having any fun at all? man, you really should think about resigning from that deal and calling it a day. It just sounds like theres a grey cloud over that whole job. shame as I know you were excited bout it originally. I would imagine that your view of being a HC is that "its overrated" right about now. I had a boss that used to tell me that all of the time. If I am going to make a move.. it will have to be before the end of Jan.. cannot afford prorated pay again this year.. But I dont want this thread to be a whoa is me thread.. I want it to be a yes.. his butt could get in trouble for that thread.. or yea it sucks.. but he is within his boundries thread.. The next time he comes down on me for petty crap.. I want to be able to back him off.. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 10, 2009 9:42:35 GMT -6
Raider, GET OUT. If either of those people want you to fail you are in over your head. Find a place where your efforts will be apprciated The AD.. I think he wants EVERYONE to fail other than him.. The principal.. I really believe it is nothing personal.. just him simply wanting to be the alpha male and wanting to make sure EVERYONE knows his role.. This is the same guy who hounds me for my practice plans each week.. Why on EARTH does the principal need to see my practice plans?? Just to let me know that he is in control and in the know about every aspect of my job. |
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Post by brophy on Nov 10, 2009 10:44:06 GMT -6
What does the AD coach there? the "AD"s aren't anything more than glorified administrative assistants to the sports department (just a $2k stipend for someone to check eligibility and review POs) down here - they aren't real "Athletic Directors" like they are up North. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 10, 2009 10:56:12 GMT -6
I'm not sure why it's an issue. If that's the way you felt towards certain assistants, isn't that really your fault for saying something behind their back that you didn't say to their face? (or did you?) I mean, if you were upfront with them, then the ones pulling their weight wouldn't be upset, and the ones who were F'in up the program would know they were the ones F'in up the program. Now it was not the principal's place to open his mouth or the AD's for that matter and I would address that with those 2. Well.. it was misconstrued.. I said that I didn't trust them to show up.. They had been running to him with their problems on other issues.. and the took it that I didn't trust them.. as in I thought as them as cut throats.. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 10, 2009 10:59:55 GMT -6
I'm not sure why it's an issue. If that's the way you felt towards certain assistants, isn't that really your fault for saying something behind their back that you didn't say to their face? (or did you?) I mean, if you were upfront with them, then the ones pulling their weight wouldn't be upset, and the ones who were F'in up the program would know they were the ones F'in up the program. Now it was not the principal's place to open his mouth or the AD's for that matter and I would address that with those 2. Well.. it was misconstrued.. I said that I didn't trust them to show up.. They had been running to him with their problems on other issues.. and the took it that I didn't trust them.. as in I thought as them as cut throats.. That's not misconstrued. You don't trust them because they're not trustworthy. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 10, 2009 11:03:55 GMT -6
What does the AD coach there? Head baseball coach by default.. they fired the baseball coach last year and couldnt find anyone to take it.. He is listed as assistant football on our coaching roster.. but he is not.. makes me wonder if he is picking up a stipend from it. |
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Post by airraider on Nov 10, 2009 11:08:24 GMT -6
Well.. it was misconstrued.. I said that I didn't trust them to show up.. They had been running to him with their problems on other issues.. and the took it that I didn't trust them.. as in I thought as them as cut throats.. That's not misconstrued. You don't trust them because they're not trustworthy. That was the true feeling.. but what came out was meant to not sound as bad.. Lets face it.. Im a push over.. I hate it.. need to grow a set.. but Im not the yelling to the point kind.. the previous meeting before that became a race issue meeting.. Because myself and my "white DC" ran the show.. I had to quickly point out that my "black" Oline coach had plenty of responsibility because he was ALWAYS at practice and on Saturdays.. not to mention he is a fulltime student at the local college.. So it had nothing to do with race.. That was the same meeting where I asked the DL coach.. (same one who missed our jamboree as well as 30% of our practices) to draw up our base defense to a Pro-I.. He could do neither.. By the way.. he was placed on my staff by AD.. |
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Post by RENO6 on Nov 10, 2009 11:27:22 GMT -6
Air,
You're stating all of these issues on a public forum. Everyone on your staff as well as administrators could look at that as betrayal.
I think you have great intentions and from the posts that I've read of yours, I think your have a very bright future.
You're in a bad situation that will only get worse. I've been in a similiar situation where I tried to stick it out even though it was obvious everyone around me was against me. You need to get out of there before they get you out.
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lyons
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by lyons on Nov 10, 2009 12:26:47 GMT -6
It is tough to tell someone else what to do especially if you consider them a friend and a coach on your staff. I had been ran over before and I told my new staff that it is my butt on the line and if there are things that need to be changed, I will let them know. It is tough. Lay the expectations out early and talk to them in coaches meetings and not on the field or to the AD, and principal. Let them know first and not find out from someone else (which finding out from them is BS in my thoughts, they need to keep stuff confindential)
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bama
Freshmen Member
Posts: 54
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Post by bama on Nov 10, 2009 12:36:03 GMT -6
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think your situation will get any better with time. From your previous posts about the situation, you seem to be the only one that cares about the on the field product. The principal will never relenquish control, the AD sounds like a he has a picked-on-in-elementary-school syndrome, and your asst. coaches obviously don't trust you. It is a no win situation for everyone.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 10, 2009 13:02:58 GMT -6
The one thing I have learned over the years; keep my mouth shut unless someone asks me a specific question.
I don't know if you were asked about your assistants or not, coach, but I do think that it's bogus for an administration to do what they did. The most they should involve themselves in that situation is to request that you meet with your staff to solve the issues presented.
Sounds like you'll have another fun one on your hands. Personally, if a principal or AD asked me for my practice plans, there would be a 'heated discussion.' Why hire a HC if you're going to spend your whole time babysitting them? They might as well just go do it themselves; and HC should never be a 'go between' guy in a program.
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Post by coachwoodall on Nov 10, 2009 13:11:57 GMT -6
'practice plans'
reminds me of a coach one time, old school guy been around the block as a HC. anyways.....
His principal asked for long range plans, and keep bugging him about it when they aren't turned in. Finally he hands in his 'LRP'. It is 2 pieces of paper. The cover is nice and neat is large font: name, date, title, etc......
On the second page is 1 sentence, "My long range plans are to find another f~cking job"
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Post by John Knight on Nov 10, 2009 13:19:13 GMT -6
LOL!!!!!!!
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Post by blueswarm on Nov 11, 2009 0:26:24 GMT -6
Get out if you can!
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hammer58
Freshmen Member
If you think what you lifted yesterday was heavy; you haven't done anything today.
Posts: 37
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Post by hammer58 on Nov 17, 2009 16:53:41 GMT -6
My AD is a scumbag...I paid for winter indoor camps out of my own pocket...set-up the only strength training program in any HS in our district...took the team from losers to winners in one year...Assured me that I would be back and then informed other HC's at rival schools that I would not...this was the final straw...now our union is involved...what a mess and very stresful for parents, players and my family.
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hammer58
Freshmen Member
If you think what you lifted yesterday was heavy; you haven't done anything today.
Posts: 37
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Post by hammer58 on Nov 17, 2009 16:57:24 GMT -6
Further to this is that I am being blamed for our Senior football team going winless. Up here we play junior football in the spring. It is being said I didn't teach fundamentals enough...they are on crack...we only had 3 coaches and 45 kids. We got ready to play football, not prepare for the Senior team in the fall. The whole thing makes me sick and really hurting my reputation in the football commnunity...players wondering, parents up in arms...terrible.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 17, 2009 18:44:57 GMT -6
The next day.. after practice those coaches call a meeting.. a meeting in which I get cussed at pretty hard for saying I don't trust them... That's the thing that really bothers me the most, they called a meeting and bitched at you....aren't you the boss?  Sounds like you need to move on and call it a day. I think you are starting to take the title of "It may be bad here but damn am I glad I am not that guy!" |
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Post by jpdaley25 on Nov 18, 2009 6:20:21 GMT -6
Another option - Fire the guys you don't trust, keep the bosses happy (keep your friends close and your enemies closer), build a successfull program, move on to greener pastures when the opportunity presents itself.
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Post by Sparkey on Nov 19, 2009 10:46:58 GMT -6
If you had a winning record and like the job.....stay with it! The other option would be to get rid of the cancer on your staff. I taught for 33 years and always had to hand in lesson plans. Not practice plans though. Although, I always had practice plan in hand. What is your AD's MO on the practice plans; To organize you or build a case vs. you? Find a new job isn't always easy to do.
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redbug
Sophomore Member
Posts: 188
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Post by redbug on Nov 20, 2009 11:50:15 GMT -6
Ok playing devil's advocate. I think the practice plans could be used to your advantage. The principal told me in my second year of coaching after a 42-18 loss that our team was out classed, out coached, and out played (we had a winning season both that year and the year before). He also made the comment that I didn't know how to teach the team to execute our offense. He requested a copy of our practice plan that he wanted to sit down and talk with me about.
It furiated me at first, until I realized how I could utilize what he was asking me to do. I too had(have) a coach that I don't trust on my staff, he leaves early always a different excuse, he wouldn't show up to coaches meetings, always grading papers...
Anyhow, I went a step farther than a true practice plan, I made a coaches plan each day. I sat down with the principal to "discuss" my plans for about 3 days before he was bored with it, because I went out of my way on the coaches plan. Even though he was bored with it, if there was something from the previous day that was left off due to time constraints, or if we added something I would change the previous days schedule in his office and explain to him why. I would also jot down on there if a coach had to leave as well as the reason, or if a coach did not fill his responsiblity. On my practice plan I would go to the coaches I trust tell them what periods we would have for the day and ask them for a list of drills they would be doing. If it were a coach I didn't trust, I would write in what drills I wanted them to do during that time period. I would jot down exactly which coach was in charge of each area of the locker room for monitoring when athletes were getting dressed, one at the door to locker room, myself outside of the coaches office, one in the bathroom and 1 at the practice field working with kickers. At the end of practice myself and 1 coach would stay on the practice field for makeups and disciplinary actions, while 2 went into the locker room to monitor them until all were gone.
This included game days who was responsible for grabbing busses what time they needed to have the bus there, what time we were leaving once we got to the game who was responsible for equipment warm-ups etc.
As a side note I would make it known to the assistant coaches what is being requested of you by the principal, and hint to them that he claimed he would be coming to monitor the situation. It may motivate those who are inconsistant to do a better job knowing that their "boss" is coming to check on them. I would play it off that he is curious about the staff, and put more blame on them for the request.
Some call it lemons, some make lemonade. I would try not to get mad about certain things asked of you, see how you can use it to your advantage.
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redbug
Sophomore Member
Posts: 188
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Post by redbug on Nov 20, 2009 12:00:41 GMT -6
OH and to the original question, I would be pissed, if I went to them in confidence and they let it spill. I also would have talked to my assistants that I trusted about the situation first, sometimes they have ideas, or may know what is holding the others back. Sometimes the other assistant isn't worth their salt, the one I have is a good talker and could talk a snake out of eating a mouse.
But in going to the AD and principal what were you expecting to happen? There are 2 possible situations that could arise from this and I have had both happen. One they take matters into their own hands, the alpha male type who want everything to be about them, and they will go to the coach to talk with them directly to find out what the problem is. The second is the passive type where they advise you on what you should do, but don't want to get their hands dirty.
I am not saying you were wrong by going to them or being upset that this has occured, because I have done the same thing. Just curious on what you expected to happen from the meeting.
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Post by phantom on Nov 20, 2009 12:30:32 GMT -6
I would jot down exactly which coach was in charge of each area of the locker room for monitoring when athletes were getting dressed, one at the door to locker room, myself outside of the coaches office, one in the bathroom . You have a coach monitor the bathroom? |
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Post by airraider on Nov 20, 2009 12:41:58 GMT -6
OH and to the original question, I would be pissed, if I went to them in confidence and they let it spill. I also would have talked to my assistants that I trusted about the situation first, sometimes they have ideas, or may know what is holding the others back. Sometimes the other assistant isn't worth their salt, the one I have is a good talker and could talk a snake out of eating a mouse. But in going to the AD and principal what were you expecting to happen? There are 2 possible situations that could arise from this and I have had both happen. One they take matters into their own hands, the alpha male type who want everything to be about them, and they will go to the coach to talk with them directly to find out what the problem is. The second is the passive type where they advise you on what you should do, but don't want to get their hands dirty. I am not saying you were wrong by going to them or being upset that this has occured, because I have done the same thing. Just curious on what you expected to happen from the meeting.[/quote] The meeting was actually not called by me.. when asked why certain things were not getting done.. I alluded to the not having enough time that week.. or whatever.. and he asked about my assistants.. and that is when I let it be none that I could not trust some of them to show up when needed. |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 20, 2009 13:20:28 GMT -6
So, let me get this straight, they asked your opinion with respect to your staff, IN A CLOSED MEETING THAT THEY CALLED, and then talked to your assistants about it?
Run, run as fast as you can, and don't look back....
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redbug
Sophomore Member
Posts: 188
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Post by redbug on Nov 20, 2009 13:23:53 GMT -6
Our bathroom area is an old basketball dressing room. It is about 50-60 foot long by 15 foot walled off and 2 doors. We also have lockers in that area as well as our shower area. Yes I stick someone in there so the kids don't start playing next to the ancient windows that you can yell and the vibrations would cause them to break(small exageration but none the less an area where kids could get to horse playing).
My principal sounds a lot like yours, he likes for everyone to know he is the alpha male. I still think had that happened I would have went to the guys I trust and told them all the juicy details. If I were an assistant in that situation its nice to hear from the head coach the battles he deals with, that I wouldn't have to be involved in, and if the story gets twisted from what he tells me to the story I hear from somewhere else, I will always trust the horses mouth over second third hand hearsay. I know some on here will disagree with telling the assistants everything, but I think it helps them develope trust in me. I have 2 on my staff I tell everything, I have 1 on my staff that wanted my job when I got it, and goes out of his way to tell the principal what I am doing "wrong". He is also the reason the previous coach had a nervous break down and was paranoid of the guy. The coach was going behind the previous coaches back to the principal and AD and the guy broke down, and was demoted from being head coach. The following year the coach continued to make his life miserable and he got demoted from being the assistant principal to just a classroom teacher.
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Post by airraider on Nov 21, 2009 15:40:54 GMT -6
So, let me get this straight, they asked your opinion with respect to your staff, IN A CLOSED MEETING THAT THEY CALLED, and then talked to your assistants about it? Run, run as fast as you can, and don't look back.... Yes.. and it might have been the AD.. but one of them went back and told them I said it.. It would have been one thing if they would have used it as a way to mediate the situation.. but it was done as a "watch out, coach doesnt trust you" type deal.. Then in a later meeting with the two.. I expressed my concern with them finding that out.. and they both denied telling them.. |
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