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Post by 19delta on Oct 17, 2009 20:18:01 GMT -6
Really don't need any affirmation or anything...just wanted to rant a little.
Last night, we are playing one of the top teams in our league. Big, suburban school with over 2,000 kids and 75 varsity football players (we have 28). Anyway, we gave them all they could handle in the first half. Score was 14-7 with 1 minute left before halftime and they score on a long TD pass when we busted the coverage. So, we go into halftime down 21-7 but we had played a pretty solid first half.
Now...we weren't going to beat these guys. They were huge up front and they completely out-athleted us. It was obvious to anyone who was at the game. So, the second half, the game started to get out of hand. They were able to platoon and we had a bunch of guys going both ways so our guys were simply worn down.
They score on the opening drive of the half to go up 28-7, we go 3-and-out on our next possession, and they go down and score again to go up 35-7.
At that point, we started putting in the subs we had. Again, with only 28 varsity kids (two of whom are sophomores who start at QB and at RG), we are only 1-deep at some positions, so we don't have a lot of backups.
We turn the ball over on our next possession and they have the ball at midfield. At this point, they still have their starters in and they throw a 30-yard TD pass to go up 42-7.
Next possession, we get a few first downs, but throw an INT. Now, this other team, with their 75 varsity football players, leaves their starters in and runs a hook-and-ladder play that gets the ball to the 10. They score a few plays later to make the score 49-6. Finally, with about 9 minutes left in the game, they took their starters out. We managed to force a fumble and return it for a TD and the game ends with the score 49-13.
Now...I'm not usually one to complain and bitch and moan about the score getting run up. But this really rubbed me the wrong way. I lost a ton of respect for their coaching staff and I'm hoping like h e l l that the big Catholic powerhouse in the conference smokes these guy's a$$ next week and then they do there usually one-and-done dance in the playoffs (like they do every year).
Also, I can't WAIT for the all-Conference meeting...I ain't voting for a SINGLE kid from that school. F those guys.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 17, 2009 20:24:16 GMT -6
Really don't need any affirmation or anything...just wanted to rant a little. Last night, we are playing one of the top teams in our league. Big, suburban school with over 2,000 kids and 75 varsity football players (we have 28). Anyway, we gave them all they could handle in the first half. Score was 14-7 with 1 minute left before halftime and they score on a long TD pass when we busted the coverage. So, we go into halftime down 21-7 but we had played a pretty solid first half. Now...we weren't going to beat these guys. They were huge up front and they completely out-athleted us. It was obvious to anyone who was at the game. So, the second half, the game started to get out of hand. They were able to platoon and we had a bunch of guys going both ways so our guys were simply worn down. They score on the opening drive of the half to go up 28-7, we go 3-and-out on our next possession, and they go down and score again to go up 35-7. At that point, we started putting in the subs we had. Again, with only 28 varsity kids (two of whom are sophomores who start at QB and at RG), we are only 1-deep at some positions, so we don't have a lot of backups. We turn the ball over on our next possession and they have the ball at midfield. At this point, they still have their starters in and they throw a 30-yard TD pass to go up 42-7. Next possession, we get a few first downs, but throw an INT. Now, this other team, with their 75 varsity football players, leaves their starters in and runs a hook-and-ladder play that gets the ball to the 10. They score a few plays later to make the score 49-6. Finally, with about 9 minutes left in the game, they took their starters out. We managed to force a fumble and return it for a TD and the game ends with the score 49-13. Now...I'm not usually one to complain and {censored} and moan about the score getting run up. But this really rubbed me the wrong way. I lost a ton of respect for their coaching staff and I'm hoping like h e l l that the big Catholic powerhouse in the conference smokes these guy's a$$ next week and then they do there usually one-and-done dance in the playoffs (like they do every year). Also, I can't WAIT for the all-Conference meeting...I ain't voting for a SINGLE kid from that school. F those guys. Sorry coach..in reading your story here, I don't think they did a {censored} thing wrong...14-7 at 1 min to go in the half is not an buttwhippin. That said, obviously in YOUR eyes the game was over...and they could have probably started subbing a bit more liberally..but a full 9 minutes with subs is a lot. I am not saying I would have done the same, but I can totally understand the other coach's actions and I don't feel they did anything wrong. I understand the frustration...because for a bit you felt you were "there" and then they quickly took that feeling away from you in the second half. But be thankful you got that quality first half to build from. Sounds like if they would have had their act together the first half, it could have been 42-7 at the half. |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 17, 2009 20:25:14 GMT -6
That is pathetic.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 17, 2009 20:34:41 GMT -6
Sorry coach..in reading your story here, I don't think they did a {censored} thing wrong...14-7 at 1 min to go in the half is not an buttwhippin. Like I said...I'm not looking for affirmation or anything...just venting so I really don't care what your opinion on the matter is. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 17, 2009 20:41:54 GMT -6
Sorry coach..in reading your story here, I don't think they did a {censored} thing wrong...14-7 at 1 min to go in the half is not an buttwhippin. Like I said...I'm not looking for affirmation or anything...just venting so I really don't care what your opinion on the matter is. Well I, like all other coaches, are caretakers of the game. While your venting doesn't really matter to me (or others), I think your "I aint votin for their kids, f those guys" comment has NO PLACE in our profession. Of course, I realize that chances are, that was just part of the vent, and not going to actually materialize.... |
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Post by coachks on Oct 17, 2009 21:42:39 GMT -6
Agreed with CoachD. Those kids had no part of the decision to leave starters in or run certain plays. Why ruin that opportunity for them?
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Post by k on Oct 17, 2009 22:15:52 GMT -6
Agreed with CoachD. Those kids had no part of the decision to leave starters in or run certain plays. Why ruin that opportunity for them? I think his point is that this coach proved that he inflated their stats so they can't be used as a trustworthy guide to how talented they were. At least I hope so. =) |
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Post by phantom on Oct 17, 2009 22:20:04 GMT -6
Agreed with CoachD. Those kids had no part of the decision to leave starters in or run certain plays. Why ruin that opportunity for them? I think his point is that this coach proved that he inflated their stats so they can't be used as a trustworthy guide to how talented they were. At least I hope so. =) Why not? The yards and points were earned in varsity games weren't they? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 17, 2009 22:24:47 GMT -6
Agreed with CoachD. Those kids had no part of the decision to leave starters in or run certain plays. Why ruin that opportunity for them? I think his point is that this coach proved that he inflated their stats so they can't be used as a trustworthy guide to how talented they were. At least I hope so. =) The team PLAYED against 19delta's team, so stats are not really that important in his decision. Delta got a few weeks of film, plus he got to see the players up close and personal, as well as film of that. What the heck does he need stats for? |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 17, 2009 23:59:31 GMT -6
Agreed with CoachD. Those kids had no part of the decision to leave starters in or run certain plays. Why ruin that opportunity for them? because as you are rubbing it in the face of the losing team, you are A) risking injury to a starter and B) you are not reloading kids for next year and C) you are rubbing it in Delta's Face. |
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Post by phantom on Oct 18, 2009 0:14:05 GMT -6
Agreed with CoachD. Those kids had no part of the decision to leave starters in or run certain plays. Why ruin that opportunity for them? because as you are rubbing it in the face of the losing team, you are A) risking injury to a starter and B) you are not reloading kids for next year and C) you are rubbing it in Delta's Face. The coach might be, not the player. |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 18, 2009 0:17:53 GMT -6
because as you are rubbing it in the face of the losing team, you are A) risking injury to a starter and B) you are not reloading kids for next year and C) you are rubbing it in Delta's Face. The coach might be, not the player. No sir, but the coach is responsible for the player. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 18, 2009 0:35:08 GMT -6
The coach might be, not the player. No sir, but the coach is responsible for the player. His point was that the PLAYER most likely didn't decide to stay in, nor decide on playcalls. The PLAYER simply did what he was coached to do, which is execute. Why should 19delta hold this against the PLAYER when it comes to all-conference honors? Not only that, but keep in mind the score was 14-7 with 1 min to go before HALF....AND the subs played almost the entire 4th quarter. It is VERY reasonable to think that the opposing coach was completely unsatisfied with his players 1st half performance, so in his mind, his guys played ONE good quarter of football.... He has to coach his guys first you know...and it sounds like delta wanted those started pulled after two drives in the 2nd half...which might have been the only two drives they played to their potential up to that point. |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 18, 2009 0:43:52 GMT -6
I agree, and I would not hold it against the player for conference nominations, however, I will say this, that coach just screwed a lot of people over in his actions. Not just Delta and his players, but his own players.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 18, 2009 0:45:16 GMT -6
Coach D5085,
I respect your comments and I look to you to educate myslef as a young coach. I just don't believe this coach did anything to help anyone on this deal.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 18, 2009 4:27:12 GMT -6
Let me ask you guys, and I have no dog in this at all...devils advocate stuff here...rambling thoughts on this after four cups of joe
...just when does a coach say 'enough is enough" when it comes to points and trying to score to secure a win? There dont seem to be any real guidelines, nor does there seem to be a set of "raise the white flag" guidelines.
What bothers me is when a team has BETTER ATHLETES but is losing and wont pull those studs and play their duds so it forces us to keep scoring because if we dont, they will catch us. we cant play defense ....so we have to keep scoring.
whos responsibility is it to STOP scoring? if the losing team says "ok we give up, uncle uncle" then it seems to me that the team on top has some responsibility to sub in guys when they hit their own "enough is enough" mark...ie, for us its probably 36 point lead. We are not comfortable in the 20s with any lead until we hit the 4 minute mark...seriously.
the other thing is playing time, the score is just the score...but dont your hard working kids deserve some playing time? I never bought the "play into shape" argument but I do think they need to get a chance to play in games that they control. why should the backups get all that playing time when they have jv?
there really doesnt seem to be any guidelines that coaches follow. around here thers a couple of teams that pour it on until they hit the high 50s and 60s...their starters stay in even when its 48-6 at the half etc.
why a team needs to to have a 60 point lead before subbing seems to be a mystery, must be about playing time i guess.
the bottom line for me has become a philosophy of ask no quarter and play the game with a "first one to one hundred wins" mentality. I also lose respect for coaches who call time outs, throw the ball deep etc when the game is over.
for us, when we are winning big or losing big we are gonig to clear our bench. if the games NOT DECIDED then we are not. simple as that.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 18, 2009 8:58:20 GMT -6
Brophy, I'm young and I thought I was just an anal retentive jerk about the little things, but the helmets get you too huh? My motto on that is "If we were in the war, you'd get your head blown off" I worship Navy/Army in their mentality on discipline so I'm really tough on sideline demeanor. Helmets never come off in practice unless it's a water break or talk-in at the end (and both times only once I say "helmets off") and during games, they come off only at halftime. Never had a guy search for his helmet bc it's never OFF! Nothing drives me crazier than seeing guys search for stuff during games!
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Post by justryn2 on Oct 18, 2009 9:00:26 GMT -6
I won't question another coaches motives for why he calls certain plays or how he uses his subs. Its his team. If we're not able to compete because the other team clearly has the better athletes, well, that's the way this game is sometimes. You play your own game, play it to the best of your ability and just don't worry about the score, the timeouts, the play calling, the subs or anything else that you cannot control.
Sure, there are some coaches that earn more of my respect because of the way they handle these situations. But, I can only coach my team. And, if we're that far behind, maybe instead of offering my advice to the opposing coach, I should be asking him for his advice.
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 18, 2009 11:05:29 GMT -6
In an effort to put forth some positive change, perhaps you can make an organized mass-sub (as best you can w/ 28) that their staff can clearly see as a sign that they can call off the dogs. I know when I'm running the defense, I'm watching personnel substitutions like a hawk and 4-5 people subbing at one time is way obvious for me.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 18, 2009 11:08:59 GMT -6
In an effort to put forth some positive change, perhaps you can make an organized mass-sub (as best you can w/ 28) that their staff can clearly see as a sign that they can call off the dogs. I know when I'm running the defense, I'm watching personnel substitutions like a hawk and 4-5 people subbing at one time is way obvious for me. You can also tell your sideline official to pass word to the other sideline official that you are interested in making mass subs. |
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Post by coachorr on Oct 18, 2009 11:34:50 GMT -6
In an effort to put forth some positive change, perhaps you can make an organized mass-sub (as best you can w/ 28) that their staff can clearly see as a sign that they can call off the dogs. I know when I'm running the defense, I'm watching personnel substitutions like a hawk and 4-5 people subbing at one time is way obvious for me. You can also tell your sideline official to pass word to the other sideline official that you are interested in making mass subs. Good point. |
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Post by coachbw on Oct 18, 2009 12:11:44 GMT -6
I am very uncomfortable judging another coaches motives in not subbing. Who knows, maybe his 2nd and 3rd stringers have been jacking around all week and he doesn't want to reward them. Maybe he knows they are psyched up for a Saturday JV game and doesn't want to have any of them dinged up for that. It is just to hard to say.
I have gained respected for coaches based off of how they handle a big lead. I have never lost respect for a coach based off of how they handled a big lead . . . plus, if they are whooping us, who I am to argue with their methods!!!
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Oct 18, 2009 15:19:49 GMT -6
I have been on both sides of the coin throughout the years and had many times where I felt like it was rubbed into our face.
First, everything that goes around comes around. Eventually, one year the shoe will be on the other foot and how you react will determine a lot. Do you pour it on because you want revenge, or do you do your thing and walk away with dignity?
Second thing, and I try to remember this each time I get thumped. Bobby Bowden told Lou Holtz, "It's your job to keep the score down, not mine. If you don't like the score, either coach better or recruit better. I've got to coach my team and you've got to coach yours. You can coach only (1) team.
I use that because it is so very true. If I think a guy is pouring it on, I need to either coach my kids better, or get better kids. I can't coach both teams in the game.
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Post by fbdoc on Oct 18, 2009 15:47:38 GMT -6
"It's your job to keep the score down.." So true. In our most recent game, which ended in another loss (final score was 0-15) we marched up and down the field - 17 first downs - and turned the ball over 7 times! Was the other coach running up the score because his players fell on the ball? It's our job to hang onto the stinkin ball! If we had, we would have scored, multiple times! I've been on my share of lopsided scores (usually the wrong end  ) but I can honestly say I have never run the score up on any coach ... although given the chance, there is one that I might consider doing it to. 19delta - I realize you are venting. That's a great thing about this board! But the other coach is not supposed to be thinking about your team or your starters getting some stat yardage or your subs getting some garbage playing time. He's coaching his team and you need to do the same. Keep on venting, but keep on coaching your team. |
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Post by 19delta on Oct 18, 2009 16:32:39 GMT -6
"It's your job to keep the score down.." So true. In our most recent game, which ended in another loss (final score was 0-15) we marched up and down the field - 17 first downs - and turned the ball over 7 times! Was the other coach running up the score because his players fell on the ball? It's our job to hang onto the stinkin ball! If we had, we would have scored, multiple times! Did you even read the initial post? What you described was clearly NOT the case here. |
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Post by davecisar on Oct 18, 2009 17:43:15 GMT -6
Simple
In youth football when we are calling off the dogs:
We call timeout and with everyone standing in their positions, we sub for almost every kid so the other team and their parents/coaches/refs CLEARLY SEE we are done, putting all our weak kids in. We are OVERT
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Post by fbdoc on Oct 18, 2009 19:19:24 GMT -6
Yes I read your post - I guess you're still venting... You were playing a bigger school with better athletes. Your guys played tough the first half and then the talent of your opponent took over. You started subbing your kids before they did. Not trying to be a jerk but it's not your job to sub for your opponent. Coach your own kids. If you don't like their coach, don't play them again. The example I gave was simply another example of the same thing - it doesn't matter what the other guy does - Coach your own team.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 18, 2009 19:46:11 GMT -6
At this point, they still have their starters in and they throw a 30-yard TD pass to go up 42-7. Now, this other team, with their 75 varsity football players, leaves their starters in and runs a hook-and-ladder play that gets the ball to the 10. TD Pass to go up 42-7 is questionable, but not awful if they then sub to finish game. Hook & freaking ladder up 42-7. Are you serious? 99% of coaches would have a real issue with that. But, I do think I would cool off just a little (a little) since they didn't score anymore and you did. (I know it was off a turnover). I know you are venting, but don't screw their kids unless they were jerks also. I am not saying vote for them either. If it is clear they should make the team, vote for them. If not, vote who you think should make it. |
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Post by brophy on Oct 19, 2009 8:18:08 GMT -6
I understand the "f those guys" comment, and I don't know if you were serious as to not voting for those kids ( maybe you're still venting ), so I don't see a point in grilling you about those comments made out of frustration. I understand. I just want to say, this isn't directed at 19delta, who's posts i really love, just throwing this out there because this same thing is posted many other places on this board. What I don't understand (because it ALWAYS gets presented on the board) is how we whine and complain that kids are so soft or pussified or whatever.........and then some of those same folks are getting upset and outraged when people ARE being competitive. I've been in some blowouts, yeah, it sucks.  But every week we all have 48 minutes - GO! I really don't have a problem if you are blasting away 100-0, does that make me unsportsmanlike? Are we only going to show up for 20 minutes of that time? I don't get the uncompetitive mentality of hoping someone else does "our" job. That if we do our job too well, we need to stop.....F that. It isn't personal, it is just doing what you do. If the other team sucks (or its you that sucks), too bad, so sad.....you'd better do more to compete. You want the OTHER team to stop? Well, the option to forfeit is always available....otherwise, STFU and just play the GD game! |
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2009 9:51:53 GMT -6
Hook 'n Lateral to get to 49-6 in 4th Quarter is over the top.
Fact is some guys don't get it, don't understand sportsmanship and won't unless called on the carpet by a superior. Wouldn't do you any good to complain to other coach because he'd just think you were a poor loser.
That said, some nights you're the windshield, some nights you're the bug. It's all part of the gig and we have to man up and deal with both ends of it.
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) but I can honestly say I have never run the score up on any coach ... although given the chance, there is one that I might consider doing it to.
