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Post by brophy on Oct 19, 2009 10:15:08 GMT -6
Fact is some guys don't get it, don't understand sportsmanship. Wouldn't do you any good to complain to other coach because he'd just think you were a poor loser. But that is the thing.... I'd say the guy wanting to just lay down isn't being very "sporting". That is kind of the point to playing the games, to not just show up and hope the OTHER GUY makes up for our incompetencies. Hook and Ladder....who says they weren't trying to run that later in the season (maybe a wrinkle for the playoffs)? If it is a play they want to eventually run / get better at, why can't they run it? What is the likelihood that H-n-L doesn't work!? Wouldn't that be a bonus to the team getting waxed? Why do THEY have to shut it down, simply because your guys (and staff) have given up? Why do THEY have to stop playing? If you are getting pummelled by a DW team, and they have nothing left to get out of the game besides a glorified practice, why shouldn't start throwing the ball to get better (STAY COMPETITIVE)? If this were boxing / MMA, and a guy is getting his {censored} kicked, does the guy doing the {censored} kicking supposed to just throw his hands up and stop pummelling the guy, or should someone else call the dogs off (the trainer of the guy getting his tail whipped)?
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2009 10:27:18 GMT -6
I don't disagree brophy. I don't really worry about what the other guy does. He has to do what is best for his team, me likewise.
However - I think the rationalization they want to "work on" a play like Hook 'n Lateral is weak. If they really want to polish it - run it when the game is competitive! Running it at 42-6 with starters against other teams' backups isn't realistic and smacks of an attempt to "fool" (and thus embarrass) them.
Our philosophy is play the game deciders until the game is decided, and that is running clock (35-point mercy rule) or three scores in the 4th Quarter.
Also I think your only obligation is to substitute at that point. I didn't say the winning team has to "shut it down" or "stop playing"- to the contrary I think they should keep running their offense for the experience of their backups and even their opponents.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 19, 2009 10:28:17 GMT -6
19delta-
that sucks man...being on the short-end like that and the way that they scored (passes/hook & laterals)...but look at it on the bright side
at least they took their dudes out with 9mins left! It could have been way worse...
I'm not knocking your vent-session- we're all entitled to our opinions...
I just can't look at it like that though- I can't blame the refs/criticize the other team/blame the AD for scheduling this game etc- to me, it's a cop-out and EVEN IF I FEEL THAT WAY IN MY GUT, I would never let the team feel that. The minute they sense that there's a scapegoat then they focus on that rather than what they control- their execution/preparation/effort. When something goes wrong, my kids look for something to blame it on- I'm trying to train them to be accountable- it's no one's fault but our own...no matter what
You have every right to be angry- but let it be the driving force to make yourselves better! Don't point out the way you lost- just point to the loss...don't accept it and go get after it again today at practice! Maybe flip the script on them - "how can we let that team pull that freaking-goat-rodeo-move (hook and lateral) on us...we're better than that! We should be ashamed! That's not <insert school mascot> football!"
Put it past you and let it fuel the fire for the next time you meet those d!ckheads...Good luck my man
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Post by thunder17 on Oct 19, 2009 10:36:37 GMT -6
Hook and ladder when you're up 40? Stupid. Just showed a future opponent something that you must be pretty good at. I don't believe a team has to call off the dogs. If you put in your subs they should try and score. Whether it's running the ball or throwing, doesn't matter. But, leaving your starters in so the score looks impressive in the saturday paper is a bunch of BS.
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2009 10:52:12 GMT -6
What's the Lou Holtz comment? "I can only coach one team." or something to that affect. Hey, get better. True. But personally I try to remember when we're in the driver's seat that those are just high school kids on the other side, playing a game they love and doing the best they can. They have to have a reason to go to practice the next day too. I'm not going to do anything to embarass them or destroy their enthusiasm for the sport. I feel that's also part of my responsibility as a professional educator and scholastic football coach. Sometimes us high school coaches are our own worst enemies. But that's just me - head wuss.
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Post by brophy on Oct 19, 2009 11:16:59 GMT -6
If you are ahead by 20....it would benefit you more to play other kids, and just get better doing what you do. That would be a value-benefit decision. However, it isn't the "right" or only thing to do. Now, I have had my share of being on the sideline while being 'blowd' out, so I know how it feels. Though, I remember the feelings of helplessness and realizing that we should've prepared better (not biotching about how big of {censored} those other guys were), though sometimes (like 19delta said) you just are completely outmatched physically. I recognize that I may not have gone to the same school as most folks....but I just find, what I interpret, as self-righteous finger pointing at folks that continue to go balls-to-the-wall even when they are up big. Coach the hell out of the team you coach (and let the rest fall where it may)
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Post by gacoach on Oct 19, 2009 11:21:10 GMT -6
We seem to forget as coaches that we are both role models for the players on BOTH sidelines, not just our own.
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Post by brophy on Oct 19, 2009 11:24:11 GMT -6
We seem to forget as coaches that we are both role models for the players on BOTH sidelines, not just our own. become a preacher, then, not a competitve coach lmao j/k......
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Post by gacoach on Oct 19, 2009 11:28:02 GMT -6
We seem to forget as coaches that we are both role models for the players on BOTH sidelines, not just our own. become a preacher, then, not a competitve coach lmao j/k...... Umm...yeah. I was saying that in reponse to the coach on the OTHER sideline who was running up the score for the benefit of HIS players.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 19, 2009 11:37:25 GMT -6
What's the Lou Holtz comment? "I can only coach one team." or something to that affect. Hey, get better. True. But personally I try to remember when we're in the driver's seat that those are just high school kids on the other side, playing a game they love and doing the best they can. They have to have a reason to go to practice the next day too. I'm not going to do anything to embarass them or destroy their enthusiasm for the sport. I feel that's also part of my responsibility as a professional educator and scholastic football coach. Sometimes us high school coaches are our own worst enemies. But that's just me - head wuss. I understand your reasoning man- you're not a wuss I personally (as a player) would not have my love for the game destroyed from being on the business end of an a$$whoopin, but that's me (probably you too)...not to say these kids won't be shook... I think you could turn it into a learning experience- a chance to face and overcome adversity rather than a feel-bad session or a self-esteem-crushing event... Perfect time to teach them to man-up
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2009 11:44:34 GMT -6
Guess what I'm saying is we're not going to run up the score on anybody (although we're going to keep doing what we do) and not going to complain if somebody does it to us.
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kahok
Sophomore Member
Posts: 106
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Post by kahok on Oct 19, 2009 13:41:02 GMT -6
What's the Lou Holtz comment? "I can only coach one team." or something to that affect. Hey, get better. True. But personally I try to remember when we're in the driver's seat that those are just high school kids on the other side, playing a game they love and doing the best they can. They have to have a reason to go to practice the next day too. I'm not going to do anything to embarass them or destroy their enthusiasm for the sport. I feel that's also part of my responsibility as a professional educator and scholastic football coach. Sometimes us high school coaches are our own worst enemies. But that's just me - head wuss. Best answer in the entire thread. If you are coaching collegiate or pro ball, then obviously that is different. I do have to say, running a Hook and Ladder up 42 - 6 is not "working on it for the future". Why show that play in a blowout? If I'm the coach on the end of the ass whooping then I'm sending that tape to any future opponent. Saying, "here, look out for the HnL from 'this' formation". Why not? They showed you up and tried to embarass you. Butt-Kickings happen. It's part of the game, but at some point, and we have all been there, the game is OVER, out of reach. Time to empty the bench and run our offense, no matter what it is, with our second and third team guys. Time to get some bad seniors some PT and younger guys ready for next year. With the score that out of hand, I'm not worried about the other teams starters roughing up my back-ups, since clearly they aren't that good to begin with. Another thought, what happens when you leave your starters in and are bringing the rain against someone, and they have a kid get ticked off and cheap shot one of your guys and knock them out for the year? Don't tell me it can't happen, we are dealing with HIGH SCHOOL kids, not College players on scholly or paid pros. KIDS DO DUMB SH!T!!!!!
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 19, 2009 20:47:18 GMT -6
My point in MY post to Delta was to bring up the fact that the score was 14-7 with 1 min left in the half. They scored on a busted coverage, not execution to make it 21-7.
So apparently this team that completely out manned their opponents on this night failed to execute anywhere near their capabilities the first 24 minutes. The starters got pulled with 9min left to go in the 4th...meaning that they executed to their capabilities for a bit more than a quarter. Thats it. Just a quarter of playing to their potential.
I don't see how you can not vote for a kid for conference honors because the coach wanted them to execute for longer than just a quarter.
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Post by lsrood on Oct 20, 2009 7:04:44 GMT -6
Have been coaching a lot of years and have found this cliche to be true "What goes around comes around". Eventually those that run the hook and lateral late or try to embarass you will have the same done to them. Like dcohio, I have a long memory and can be patient. I have called off the dogs on opponents and have had them called off on my team.
To me that seems to be the best way to handle things because we are coaching HS/MS/Youth players and sportsmanship should be taught. We always preach "Win with class, Lose with class", so that their is respect for the opponent and the game either way.
Had a coach this year run reverses on us when up by 30 late in the 4th quarter. I shook his hand after the game and didn't say a thing, but I did file it in the memory book and one day things will even out.
Count me under the classification of "If you don't want to get beat that bad get better". It's my responsibility to make sure my players are prepared to play, if I am getting beat that bad then it is my fault, not the other coach's and I have to do a better job preparing my players.
Yes you appreciate it when someone calls off the dogs on you and shows mercy, but at the same time it ticks me off royally that we were that bad that we had to be shown mercy, so the same axiom applies "Don't want to get beat that bad...Get Better!" Only this time I am applying it to myself, not having someone else say it to me.
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Post by blb on Oct 20, 2009 7:17:34 GMT -6
Another perspective: I don't like the universally mandated 35-point "Mercy Rule."
I think running clock robs you of opportunity to get down-the-line kids more reps-playing time whether winning or losing.
But I suspect one of the reasons it's in existence is because of guys running Hook 'n Laterals, Reverses, not subbing starters, etc. up by five TDs or more late.
That's what I meant by us being our own worst enemies sometimes.
And I have been on both sides in about equal doses.
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