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Post by shields on Mar 18, 2009 6:26:47 GMT -6
It seems every year that kids are softer and softer. Maybe it's because their parents are working all the time and baby the heck out of them due to guilt. Maybe it's because kids get everything they want these days and don't have to work for stuff. Whatever the reason, each year, the newest batch of kids are weaker-minded than the last. Mental toughness is such a big part of what we do. I wanted to know what some of you guys do (i.e. pre-season camps with four practices a day, tough weightlifting workouts, etc.) to build that much needed mental toughness. I have gone as far as contacting military friends of mine to visit with them on this topic. (It's the military's job to condition for mental toughness so go to the source, right?). I am interested in your thoughts? Thanks!
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Post by coachcathey on Mar 18, 2009 8:24:21 GMT -6
This isn't exactly what you are looking for but....
I just got an article done about Mental, behavioral and emotional toughness, from Northern Iowa. There is a adolescent version being developed (Guy inhouse) so I have access to that. He is trying to prove that the adolescent verion holds true to the adult version.
I know China (Olympics) Colorado Rockies use the adult version and has proven its worth by predicting gold medal winners.
Very interesting stuff.
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Post by kylem56 on Mar 18, 2009 9:17:14 GMT -6
beyond the workouts, practices etc, Ive found its something you and your staff just have to preach constantly almost brainwash them and into believing it...and model it
like Woody Hayes, no matter how cold it was, the stubborn S.O.B. always wore his short sleeves and tie
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Post by tango on Mar 18, 2009 10:47:54 GMT -6
I agree with everything said, but my three year old little girl is tougher than any of my players. I have been thinking some of it is just genetics again.
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Post by atalbert on Mar 18, 2009 11:51:59 GMT -6
I think there are too many mommys and daddys who will not let their kids fail at anything. They intercede and save them before they can learn any type of lessons from whatever got them there in the first place.
IMO, mental toughness comes from being down but not out and working your way back to success. Most kids don't get that because their parents don't let them get to that point.
Also, another factor that is overlooked is when kids play. I used to play actual football in the park or the street and come home scraped, bruised, broken, whatever. Any arguments, fights, etc were settled right there and forgotten about by the next day.
Today, most of my players play Playstation or XBox sports more than actual sports. I think that develops what I call the "RESET BUTTON" mentality. When the $hit gets deep, you can always hit the reset button and start over before you actually lose.
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Post by superpower on Mar 18, 2009 12:08:45 GMT -6
No offense intended to anyone, but what good does it do to continue to complain about a perceived lack of mental toughness? Instead, what do we need to do to develop it? I think too often we get what we expect. If you expect kids to lack mental toughness, that is often what you will see.
If your kids lack physical toughness, you get them in the weightroom and design practice drills to teach it. If they lack football smarts, you do film study with them. Instead of complaining, let's share ideas to improve the situation.
Most kids will meet the expectations that are placed on them.
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Post by dubber on Mar 18, 2009 12:11:17 GMT -6
This is where it starts. You want mentally tough players? Expect that from them, and hold them accountable. Kids are DYING for discipline, for the type of blue collar equality that only football can bring..........after the inital shock, they will soak it up.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 18, 2009 12:38:31 GMT -6
beyond the workouts, practices etc, Ive found its something you and your staff just have to preach constantly almost brainwash them and into believing it...and model it like Woody Hayes, no matter how cold it was, the stubborn S.O.B. always wore his short sleeves and tie Is that like the guy who refuses to wear anything but shorts during a playoff run where the weather is like 20 deg at kick off? They always crack me up. I look like I am going to the North Pole for those games and I sit in the box LOL
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Post by dubber on Mar 18, 2009 12:43:40 GMT -6
No offense intended to anyone, but what good does it do to continue to complain about a perceived lack of mental toughness? Instead, what do we need to do to develop it? I think too often we get what we expect. If you expect kids to lack mental toughness, that is often what you will see. If your kids lack physical toughness, you get them in the weightroom and design practice drills to teach it. If they lack football smarts, you do film study with them. Instead of complaining, let's share ideas to improve the situation. Most kids will meet the expectations that are placed on them. We posted at the same time, and said the same thing! Coach is a DW guy, I'm a spread guy......anyone seeing a commonality in football regardless of scheme?
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Mar 18, 2009 12:47:30 GMT -6
I think some of it inherited (genetic) but mostly enviornmental. Us as coaches can't control how they act/are treated at home, but if we provide a stable, competitve enviornment that relys on accountability and consequences athletes will "walk the line" even when they don't want to - this is step 1 to being mentally tough...
Then comes the wt room, not allowing excuses, recognition of those who sacrifice for the good of the program etc...
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Post by coachwarner on Mar 18, 2009 15:24:16 GMT -6
Coach Dubber hit the nail on the head in my opinion.
"Physical toughness makes the opponent weak, Mental toughness make the opponent crack" Cant remember which great coach made that statement.
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Post by phantom on Mar 18, 2009 16:28:41 GMT -6
beyond the workouts, practices etc, Ive found its something you and your staff just have to preach constantly almost brainwash them and into believing it...and model it like Woody Hayes, no matter how cold it was, the stubborn S.O.B. always wore his short sleeves and tie I've been a coach for 30 years. I've been involved in organized football since 1967. I like to think that I'm a tough guy. I coach tough guys. When it's cold, though, I'm wearing long pants and a coat.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 19, 2009 5:13:37 GMT -6
Failing to dress properly is just a failure to prepare or a failure to learn from past experience. My kids are freezing on the sideline and I am stripping in layers because I am prepared. I am still much tougher than any of them ha ha.
Toughness is really nothing more then loving all that goes into the game and loving all that it takes to win the game. Toughness is playing your heart out no matter what the score is. Toughness is throwing your body into the fray even when you are the smallest and slowest kid out there. Thats toughness.
What toughness is not, its not cursing or bullying players, its not how you dress or how you talk. Toughness is mental and physical discipline and desire packaged nicely despite natural athletic gifts.
a very long time ago I learned that every team will have a mix of tough guys and wussy kids. Knowing how to create matchups and ease the wussy ones into the game is good coaching. You can teach a wuss but it takes time. You need to challenge the tough guys without having them kill each other, keep them healthy and hungry while you find a way to have the wussy kids gain confidence.
I like to send my tissues off to the side with my C or D coach and let them bang while the rest of us are doing team defense or walk throughs for example.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 19, 2009 5:17:21 GMT -6
No offense intended to anyone, but what good does it do to continue to complain about a perceived lack of mental toughness? Instead, what do we need to do to develop it? I think too often we get what we expect. If you expect kids to lack mental toughness, that is often what you will see. If your kids lack physical toughness, you get them in the weightroom and design practice drills to teach it. If they lack football smarts, you do film study with them. Instead of complaining, let's share ideas to improve the situation. Most kids will meet the expectations that are placed on them. Greg, I do think coach was asking for that kind of discussion and not really complaining. Your kids are tough and your whole style of play helps dictate the need to be tough. Sometimes I wonder if the whole basketball on grass thing does create a softer kind of kid coming into the game. I have more and more kids asking to play "receiver" and honestly, I hate that. I remember when kids wanted to play fullback and linebacker.
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Post by endersgame on Mar 19, 2009 5:34:13 GMT -6
It seems every year that kids are softer and softer. Maybe it's because their parents are working all the time and baby the heck out of them due to guilt. Maybe it's because kids get everything they want these days and don't have to work for stuff. Whatever the reason, each year, the newest batch of kids are weaker-minded than the last. This is a common myth that is believed by every generation of parents since the beginning of civilization. Kids are the same no matter what generation they were born in. It's just human behavior, kids don't change. They do mature eventually though (they always do and this generation will be saying the same thing about kids when they have their own), and the best way to speed up this process is to lead by example and use things like the weightroom for team-building exercises (kids have to learn that adults work in teams).
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Post by John Knight on Mar 19, 2009 6:35:51 GMT -6
I disagree about kids not changing. Being raised in a home with air conditioning and 75 degree heat year round (climate controlled environment) does weaken one a bit. I really think kids are more likely to get heat illness than kids that are raised with no A/C and spend more time outside. Plus these kids never work outside in heat.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 19, 2009 6:44:34 GMT -6
take your kids cell phone away, turn off the tv, computer and video games. heck shut off the power for two days and see how tough your kids are.
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Post by John Knight on Mar 19, 2009 6:48:39 GMT -6
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Post by Rooster on Mar 19, 2009 7:04:50 GMT -6
Another theory of mine?
At least from my location. We are becoming more of an urbanized society. Less Agrarian. when I was in high school during the early 90's my dad would not let me lift weights during the summer. I lived 45 minutes away and we ran a big farm. We had too much work to do. And usually I had a bunch of my buddies working with me. And when practice came in August we had been outside in the heat all summer and it was easy. No one had heat strokes or any of that stuff that seems to be going on now. The kids were tougher and were in better condition.
Now, instead of having most of our kids being from the farm, only a few are from the farm.
Not only being from the farm, but just haveing kids being outside. Those kids that are always hunting and fishing you can see a big difference. Those kids that are big in video games and what not are not as tough.
Society in general is just not as tough. My grandfather was a WWII vet and never complained about the war. Or any other vets that I know from WWII.
But think of some just in recent wars and if they could handle it.
Don't mean to step on toes here, just my OPINION.
People have gone crazy about things that they have no clue. There are so many people out there now that are more worried about Vick's dogs than people getting murdered and starving everyday. They have no perspective on life anymore.
These PETA and humane society's are pissing me off to no end.
Sorry for rambling....
If JW was here to run for Prez........
Rooster
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cwood
Junior Member
Posts: 262
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Post by cwood on Mar 19, 2009 7:23:51 GMT -6
The weight room is huge for mental toughness.
I also think that kids will adapt their toughness from there coach as well. If there coach is always joking around and being lazy then they will. If they see their coach working his butt off all the time then they see that as they level at which they are supposed to be at. They're kids and they can be easily influenced. For the most part kids don't want to disappoint so they'll work to the expectation that you are working.
Example: When they are doing those questionnaire's for homecoming or anything. They always have the question of which teacher or coach had the biggest influence on you? The kids that are accountable always say the coach that usually is the hardest working coach on staff or they pick one of the best teachers in the school. I guess my point is that kids need someone to lead by example not just someone always preaching to them.
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Post by shields on Mar 19, 2009 8:03:23 GMT -6
I agree with Rooster. Farm kids will always be tougher than city kids--IMO. When you spend summers toppin' and suckerin' tobacco or working in the cotton fields, it makes you tough. Then when it comes time for football practice, it's a breeze. It's the best part of the day--at least it was for me growing up. We are dealing with kids who don't go outside to play. They sit in front of the TV and play video games all day.
Good stuff guys. Keep it coming! When many of you say it starts in the weightroom, what are some of the things you do? For instance, we have this workout we use every now and then that we got from Ethan Reeve at Wake Forest. When he was training the USA Women's Olympic Rowing Team he had them do the following workout: 3 RDL's, 3 Cleans, 3 Front Squats, 3 Push Press, 3 Box Jumps, and 3 Overhand Pullups. Perform 10 sets of this every 2 minutes. If our guys do this right, and put a challenging amount of weight on the bar, the workout is guaranteed to cause several guys to puke. It's awesome! It's great because the kids think that if a bunch of girls can do this workout it will be a "light day" in the weightroom. What they don't realize it those "girls" are OLYMPIC ATHLETES! A good test of mental fortitude IMO!
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Post by dubber on Mar 19, 2009 8:29:52 GMT -6
When every need is taken care of, moral laxity and laziness sets in.
Those trust fund billionaires, if put in a survival situation, however, would find a way to make it work. They would complain and despair at first, but eventually, the human drive to exist would take over.
That's what we need to create with our players. It is TOUGH, it does HURT, now what are you going to do about it?
Most people, when pressed into a corner, will FIGHT.......football is one of the last places in our society where we can do that.
Which is why it is VITAL in helping mold the young men of tomorrow.
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Post by ccscoach on Mar 19, 2009 8:35:26 GMT -6
Combative Mat Drills will develop mental toughness and a mean streak. They can be as intense as you make them.
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Post by phantom on Mar 19, 2009 8:47:15 GMT -6
I agree with Rooster. Farm kids will always be tougher than city kids--IMO. When you spend summers toppin' and suckerin' tobacco or working in the cotton fields, it makes you tough. Then when it comes time for football practice, it's a breeze. It's the best part of the day--at least it was for me growing up. We are dealing with kids who don't go outside to play. They sit in front of the TV and play video games all day. Good stuff guys. Keep it coming! When many of you say it starts in the weightroom, what are some of the things you do? For instance, we have this workout we use every now and then that we got from Ethan Reeve at Wake Forest. When he was training the USA Women's Olympic Rowing Team he had them do the following workout: 3 RDL's, 3 Cleans, 3 Front Squats, 3 Push Press, 3 Box Jumps, and 3 Overhand Pullups. Perform 10 sets of this every 2 minutes. If our guys do this right, and put a challenging amount of weight on the bar, the workout is guaranteed to cause several guys to puke. It's awesome! It's great because the kids think that if a bunch of girls can do this workout it will be a "light day" in the weightroom. What they don't realize it those "girls" are OLYMPIC ATHLETES! A good test of mental fortitude IMO! I have to throw the BS card on this stuff about farm kids being tougher than city kids. In our state the state champions at the top levels come from city schools (not downgrading the other levels. We don't play them so I don't pay attention to them because I have enough problems as it is. ).
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Post by coachcb on Mar 19, 2009 8:53:01 GMT -6
IMO, mental toughness in athletics is developed right a long with physical toughness. This is obviously where the weight room and off season workouts pay off; when you push a player physically, they can't help but respond mentally.
However, in some ways, I do think that there are several generations (mine included, I'm 28) that are at a disadvantage in this area. Over the last 50 years, we have evolved from a rural, labor based society into an technologies based, urban one. As such, there are fewer demands on kids physically; both in terms of part time employment and entertainment. When it comes to part time employment; the kids have a lot more non-labor related postions open to them. They can easily find work standing behind the counter at a mall or another non-labor intensive position. My father's generation typically spent summers working a rough construction or farm/ranch job. There were more of those jobs and fewer jobs at the Gap.
Obviously, we have more sedentary means of entertaining ourselves these days. Heck, growing up, I always had a Nintendo or a Sega and cable to keep me entertained. I was still an active kid (mainly because I become bored easily), but I still spent my fair share of time playing Super Mario 3 and Madden Football. Time that I could've spent outside, doing something physical and playing hard.
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Post by kylem56 on Mar 19, 2009 8:53:29 GMT -6
I think there are too many mommys and daddys who will not let their kids fail at anything. They intercede and save them before they can learn any type of lessons from whatever got them there in the first place. IMO, mental toughness comes from being down but not out and working your way back to success. Most kids don't get that because their parents don't let them get to that point. Also, another factor that is overlooked is when kids play. I used to play actual football in the park or the street and come home scraped, bruised, broken, whatever. Any arguments, fights, etc were settled right there and forgotten about by the next day. Today, most of my players play Playstation or XBox sports more than actual sports. I think that develops what I call the "RESET BUTTON" mentality. When the $hit gets deep, you can always hit the reset button and start over before you actually lose. I currently have the Reset Button Mentality, I am on my 4th attempt trying to beat Ohio State with Notre Dame on xbox, them b@$tards
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 19, 2009 9:14:45 GMT -6
I have been around some pretty bad "farm kid" programs and yes sometimes getting a kid to practice is a challenge.
I think toughness is more than working on a farm. I also think real toughness has little to do with being a city slicker or country bumkin. I have seen some tough kids from both sides. I have also seen some real wussy ones on both ends of that deal.
Toughness has to do with tolerance. What can your kids tolerate? If you expose your kids to grueling practices and workouts and they stick around you will be in good shape. I think that if you have a bunch of softies you are going to have to tighten the screws on a few things. Try getting the lower level feeder teams to tighten the screws as well.
I used to get a bunch of whining about our practice times and structure, workout requirements, study hall requirements, discipline requirements, behavior requirements, accountability etc. Now that the kids are living to tell about it they are tougher for it.
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Post by PSS on Mar 19, 2009 9:24:44 GMT -6
Let me propose a question.
If you teach an athlete to overcome adversity on a daily basis, in the classroom and in athletics, are you not developing mental toughness?
Furthermore, does this this not come from following team rules and school rules. Then by cranking up the pressure in the weight room, mat room, practice field, the intensity and competetion level rises.
The key to developing mental toughness is to develop a "I'm / we are not going to lose" attitude. Do whaterver it takes to get the job done because failure is not an option!
That's just part of my take on it.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Mar 19, 2009 9:25:51 GMT -6
Another theory of mine? At least from my location. We are becoming more of an urbanized society. Less Agrarian. when I was in high school during the early 90's my dad would not let me lift weights during the summer. I lived 45 minutes away and we ran a big farm. We had too much work to do. And usually I had a bunch of my buddies working with me. And when practice came in August we had been outside in the heat all summer and it was easy. No one had heat strokes or any of that stuff that seems to be going on now. The kids were tougher and were in better condition. Now, instead of having most of our kids being from the farm, only a few are from the farm. Not only being from the farm, but just haveing kids being outside. Those kids that are always hunting and fishing you can see a big difference. Those kids that are big in video games and what not are not as tough. Society in general is just not as tough. My grandfather was a WWII vet and never complained about the war. Or any other vets that I know from WWII. But think of some just in recent wars and if they could handle it. Don't mean to step on toes here, just my OPINION. People have gone crazy about things that they have no clue. There are so many people out there now that are more worried about Vick's dogs than people getting murdered and starving everyday. They have no perspective on life anymore. These PETA and humane society's are pissing me off to no end. Sorry for rambling.... If JW was here to run for Prez........ Rooster So our guys carrying 80 lb packs through the deserts of Afghanistan and Iraq while dodging sniper fire and IEDs aren't tough? Give me a break. Since we're all making gross generalizations, I have coached in both an urban area and now in an area with lots of farms. The farm kids may be naturally stonger, but the urban kids are better athletes.
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Post by John Knight on Mar 19, 2009 9:38:41 GMT -6
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