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Post by coachden on Feb 14, 2009 5:24:38 GMT -6
I don't want to make this a real long post, but has anyone ever been in a situation when 7 coaches on a staff disagree with the head coach's direction of the program?
The head coach is making huge decisions that affect a few of the veteran coaches positions on the staff. To make a long story short, he is giving a brand new coach the offensive coordinator job because he as a lot of experience. Our offense has been fine and we were 2nd in the whole state in passing last year. No coaches have done anything wrong. The head will even reiterate this when meeting with us. The whole offensive staff was demoted and are in limbo. Even some of the defensive coaches are pissed. Seven coaches stand to quit and move on. This isn't the ideal move, but we may not have a choice.
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Post by shortpunter on Feb 14, 2009 5:56:07 GMT -6
I can tell you from my situation. If you are unhappy move on, The feeling will go with you at home and at work making life miserable. I stepped down from a position I wanted and now am back doing what i love coaching the kids. make sure the misery is worth it for you and your family man.. my two cents Tom
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 14, 2009 6:21:53 GMT -6
You have a simple choice.
Support the HC or move on. Its that simple.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 7:01:18 GMT -6
Yeah the guy I replaced, everybody hated, not just the coaching staff
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 14, 2009 7:03:41 GMT -6
Maybe the reason the whole staff is getting demoted and the HC is brining in a new guy is because you all disagree with him and not just about this move!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 7:21:06 GMT -6
Honestly in which case I'd expect it, and expect to move on.
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Post by CoachDaniel on Feb 14, 2009 8:18:48 GMT -6
If you're not going to get behind him 100%, move on. It's his show, his time in the sun. He wants to bring someone else in and change the direction of the program, he should do it. If he gets fired because he makes terrible decisions, you can come back and apply for his job later.
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Post by lochness on Feb 14, 2009 9:35:39 GMT -6
I respect and admire your HC's decision to put the offense in the hands of someone he thinks will be an improvement based on that person's experience and knowledge base, rather than just play the good ol' boys network and keep all his buddies in place.
I coach with some of my best friends in the world, but if a guy came along who was just plain better and knew more, I'd hope they'd put him in charge where his skills would be maximized. And, if I'm a coordinator and someone comes in that knows more than me, I'd completely understand if they handed the responsibilities over...I may not be HAPPY, but I'd understand.
It's not show-friends, it's show-business. The HC's job is to put the best people in the positions to give the team the best chance of winning...that goes for players AND coaches.
If you don't like it, you know where the door is. That's life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 9:41:14 GMT -6
Well put Loch
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Post by bluecrazy on Feb 14, 2009 9:44:30 GMT -6
I respect and admire your HC's decision to put the offense in the hands of someone he thinks will be an improvement based on that person's experience and knowledge base, rather than just play the good ol' boys network and keep all his buddies in place. I coach with some of my best friends in the world, but if a guy came along who was just plain better and knew more, I'd hope they'd put him in charge where his skills would be maximized. And, if I'm a coordinator and someone comes in that knows more than me, I'd completely understand if they handed the responsibilities over...I may not be HAPPY, but I'd understand. It's not show-friends, it's show-business. The HC's job is to put the best people in the positions to give the team the best chance of winning...that goes for players AND coaches. If you don't like it, you know where the door is. That's life. Amen brother. Lead on!
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 14, 2009 9:56:51 GMT -6
I respect and admire your HC's decision to put the offense in the hands of someone he thinks will be an improvement based on that person's experience and knowledge base, rather than just play the good ol' boys network and keep all his buddies in place. I coach with some of my best friends in the world, but if a guy came along who was just plain better and knew more, I'd hope they'd put him in charge where his skills would be maximized. And, if I'm a coordinator and someone comes in that knows more than me, I'd completely understand if they handed the responsibilities over...I may not be HAPPY, but I'd understand. It's not show-friends, it's show-business. The HC's job is to put the best people in the positions to give the team the best chance of winning...that goes for players AND coaches. If you don't like it, you know where the door is. That's life. What he said!
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Post by touchdowng on Feb 14, 2009 10:35:06 GMT -6
As assistants your jobs are to support the HC. This isn't about a moral or ethical decision. If it was I think your post would get a lot more attention.
Because he has 51% of the say in your organization you must jump on with both feet or jump off. There's no in between.
It's times like the one you describe where the strength of your staff's commitment to the program and the players is being tested. If the kids sense (and they will) that the staff is not cohesive, they will never play to their potential.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 14, 2009 10:58:02 GMT -6
To make a long story short, he is giving a brand new coach the offensive coordinator job because he as a lot of experience. Our offense has been fine and we were 2nd in the whole state in passing last year. You say so yourself here that the new guy has a lot of experience, so isn't that a good thing? Is he coming in and making wholesale changes or just tweaking the current system? Have you seen what he wants to do yet? was your O 2nd in the state because of the system or the players running the system? I have been there where you have great players running your system and you think there is nothing wrong with it untill the next year when you don't have the studs running it. Maybe you have to change some things and tweak it. Just some questions that came to mind when reading the original post.
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 14, 2009 11:18:38 GMT -6
I respect and admire your HC's decision to put the offense in the hands of someone he thinks will be an improvement based on that person's experience and knowledge base, rather than just play the good ol' boys network and keep all his buddies in place. I coach with some of my best friends in the world, but if a guy came along who was just plain better and knew more, I'd hope they'd put him in charge where his skills would be maximized. And, if I'm a coordinator and someone comes in that knows more than me, I'd completely understand if they handed the responsibilities over...I may not be HAPPY, but I'd understand. It's not show-friends, it's show-business. The HC's job is to put the best people in the positions to give the team the best chance of winning...that goes for players AND coaches. If you don't like it, you know where the door is. That's life. So Loch, Let me get this straight. I work for you for say three years , bust my a$$ do a good job and someone comes by that you feel has more experience and a knowlegde base... you will demote me? Football is alot more than X's and O's as you know. It's about building teams and doing things together. now this person just might be a better coach than me, but now you are this new person and if someone comes along you'll preplace him too. not my best arguement for creating staff loyalty. Now if you had communicated your unhappiness clearly to me beforehand then I could understand a change.
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 14, 2009 12:18:22 GMT -6
I respect and admire your HC's decision to put the offense in the hands of someone he thinks will be an improvement based on that person's experience and knowledge base, rather than just play the good ol' boys network and keep all his buddies in place. I coach with some of my best friends in the world, but if a guy came along who was just plain better and knew more, I'd hope they'd put him in charge where his skills would be maximized. And, if I'm a coordinator and someone comes in that knows more than me, I'd completely understand if they handed the responsibilities over...I may not be HAPPY, but I'd understand. It's not show-friends, it's show-business. The HC's job is to put the best people in the positions to give the team the best chance of winning...that goes for players AND coaches. If you don't like it, you know where the door is. That's life. So Loch, Let me get this straight. I work for you for say three years , bust my a$$ do a good job and someone comes by that you feel has more experience and a knowlegde base... you will demote me? Football is alot more than X's and O's as you know. It's about building teams and doing things together. now this person just might be a better coach than me, but now you are this new person and if someone comes along you'll preplace him too. not my best arguement for creating staff loyalty. Now if you had communicated your unhappiness clearly to me beforehand then I could understand a change. Coach, if you have a QB that is a rising Sr, that waited 3 years, and worked his butt off to earn the starting job, and a new kid transfers in over the summer that is better...what do you do? There doesn't have to be any unhappiness to want to improve. Of course your loyalty argument is valid too, but if you're not going to be loyal, and do your job, due to being miffed, then it's best for all, kids included that you move on.
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Post by ajreaper on Feb 14, 2009 13:00:46 GMT -6
Bottom line is we only know part of the story and there is always another side to every situation. The HC has his name on the shingle so it's his right to do what he thinks is best- either support him 100% or coach elsewhere,
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Post by jgordon1 on Feb 14, 2009 14:04:24 GMT -6
So Loch, Let me get this straight. I work for you for say three years , bust my a$$ do a good job and someone comes by that you feel has more experience and a knowlegde base... you will demote me? Football is alot more than X's and O's as you know. It's about building teams and doing things together. now this person just might be a better coach than me, but now you are this new person and if someone comes along you'll preplace him too. not my best arguement for creating staff loyalty. Now if you had communicated your unhappiness clearly to me beforehand then I could understand a change. Coach, if you have a QB that is a rising Sr, that waited 3 years, and worked his butt off to earn the starting job, and a new kid transfers in over the summer that is better...what do you do? There doesn't have to be any unhappiness to want to improve. Of course your loyalty argument is valid too, but if you're not going to be loyal, and do your job, due to being miffed, then it's best for all, kids included that you move on. I think that dealing w/ an adult is a little different than dealing w/ a player That being said..... I agree with most of the posters on the board. stating if you do not like what the HC is doing I would get out of there. Three other coaches in my league have come up to me and told me they would hire me in a second if I ever want to leave. I don't know what made them say that to me but one guy has told me this multiple times
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Post by coacht7 on Feb 14, 2009 14:49:34 GMT -6
I'd look at it this way. When Bill Cowher left the Steelers, they had a couple of coaches who seemed in line for the head job -- Ken Whisenhunt and Russ Grimm. The Steelers really believed in Mike Tomlin. It was understandable that the other two were disappointed, so they left, landed in Arizona and everyone ended up doing a good job. The head coach is head coach for a reason. So either go with the head coach's decision 100 percent or go somewhere else and forge your own way.
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Post by airman on Feb 14, 2009 21:48:36 GMT -6
other then the oc I do not see how the whole offensive staff has been demoted. maybe i do not have all the facts here. I would think position coaches would still coach their position. they would just do it under the eyes of a new oc.
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Post by coachden on Feb 15, 2009 11:02:37 GMT -6
I've left a lot of facts out, but I think loch made some good points. The experienced coach brings a lot to the table, but I feel like we had something good going already. Why mess it up? Ya know? But at the same time I can see WHY he would do this.
SOME of the position coaches are being bumped. The new OC also wants to coach OL so the O-Line is being bumped. The old OC is now coaching TE's. Also the QBs coach situation is in question.
I saw some posts about making decisions on "buddies" and "friends." In a sense, it's more about the bond between coaches. I really feel we are a stronger staff because of it. And like I said, the head coach is a great leader. Not many teams (Ditka and Ryan) can afford to have problems within a staff.
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Post by saintrad on Feb 15, 2009 12:26:13 GMT -6
so if you are ok with everything why are we even discussing this anymore? I am with ajreaper on this one.
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Post by coach4life on Feb 15, 2009 13:00:12 GMT -6
The new OC also wants to coach OL so the O-Line is being bumped. That is a telling statement. If the new guy is in control of the offense, being certain of what is going on with the o-line is a strong indicator that he knows what he is doing. This isn't a slap at the previous guy, rather it indicates that the new guy takes his responsibilities very seriously and wants to make darn sure that the most important part of any offensive scheme is done the way he wants it done. As goes the offensive line, so goes the offense....
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Post by Coach N on Feb 15, 2009 18:31:00 GMT -6
One of the most important things in a successful program is not just team chemistry, but the staff must also have great chemistry. If you are a loyal assistant, be a team player, and work real hard for the HC to get the other staff members to do the same, be an advocate for the change. Your are there for the kids first and the gold ball second. If the staff has issues and a lack of chemistry you will achieve neither and the kids will suffer.
Give it a "real chance" to work, and after a season you don't feel it's right, move on. If you don't feel you can be loyal, work hard and work for the kids and success of the program, move on now. Either way, I as a HC would appreciate your decision.
As an assistant coach years ago, I had a negative situation occur with the HC, I sucked it up and coached the heck out my position kids the next year, didn't say much but stayed professional and when a better opportunity came around I jumped at it.
2 years after I left to take a HC job, my new team got to state and took home a silver ball. Sometimes things will work out for the better.
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Post by hchscoachtom on Feb 16, 2009 19:55:14 GMT -6
On the other hand in defense of the assistants how about a HC coming in to the program and doing all he can to help make his assistants the best they can be. How about getting them on board, valuing them, encouraging them. For a head coach to expect to be respected by his assistants and have his assistants loyal to him just because he's the HC is egotistical, arrogant and causes me to question this persons motives for coaching. Obviously then it's all about him.
I know this may not sit well with some here, but we've just gone through a similar situation this season, and it was a crappy experience, even though we won state in our division. Now the new HC after one season, not even been here 12 months, has moved on to a bigger salary, which just confirms what most of us suspected, it was all about the HC. He did nothing to get assistants on board, but expected complete loyalty. Now after two coaches have moved on because of this tension, he up and leaves. Makes the players and remaining coaches feel really valued (sarcasm), more like betrayed. He expects commitment from everyone, but he himself can't fulfill even his teaching commitment.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2009 20:14:21 GMT -6
The boss may not always be right, but he'll always be the boss.
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Post by lochness on Feb 16, 2009 22:14:50 GMT -6
I respect and admire your HC's decision to put the offense in the hands of someone he thinks will be an improvement based on that person's experience and knowledge base, rather than just play the good ol' boys network and keep all his buddies in place. I coach with some of my best friends in the world, but if a guy came along who was just plain better and knew more, I'd hope they'd put him in charge where his skills would be maximized. And, if I'm a coordinator and someone comes in that knows more than me, I'd completely understand if they handed the responsibilities over...I may not be HAPPY, but I'd understand. It's not show-friends, it's show-business. The HC's job is to put the best people in the positions to give the team the best chance of winning...that goes for players AND coaches. If you don't like it, you know where the door is. That's life. So Loch, Let me get this straight. I work for you for say three years , bust my a$$ do a good job and someone comes by that you feel has more experience and a knowlegde base... you will demote me? That's exactly right. If I'm a HC, my first obligation is to the team, not to any one individual. If I'm an HC I want my best people in positions to make the program better. I'm loyal to the program first. That's my job, and that's what makes being a HC tough. You have to make those tough calls. What you'd term a "demotion" I'd term a "reorganization..." but you can look at it whatever way you want. Now, make no mistake, there are a lot more vaiables than just saying the guy "has more experience" or "knows his x's and o's better"....but bottom line is that if someone comes in and is clearly a good fit and a superior coach, I'm putting him in a leadership position. Now, where you really make your money is communicating the reasons for the change to the guy who held the position before hand. You'd have to make sure he understands. "Staff Loyalty" is a LOT different than "good ole boys network" and I want guys on my staff that are there for the kids and the program, not because they "busted their a$$ for 3 years" and feel like they deserve a title. Also, as you should know, it's not about how much a$$ you have to bust, it's about who gets the job done the best. You appreciate the a$$ busting, but at the end of the day, you want the guy who can produce results. I can run around like a frigging mad man for 16 hours a day, but if I'm not effective (or less effective than someone else who can do the job in 8 hours) what good am I? I would say that if "staff loyalty" is dependant upon me "taking care of my guys" rather than making tough calls that may not be popular to better our program, then I'd rather those coaches leave the program. I'd expect "loyalty" to be built around the fact that I make sound, difficult decisions for the overall well-being and health of the program. "Loyalty" is built upon respect, and respect is earned through doing things like this coach had to do. The decision may not be popular, but it is the right call...and THAT is true courage and is worthy of respect and loyalty from those who understand these things. I can't even believe I'm justifying this to someone....
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Post by coachden on Feb 17, 2009 3:12:45 GMT -6
So Loch, Let me get this straight. I work for you for say three years , bust my a$$ do a good job and someone comes by that you feel has more experience and a knowlegde base... you will demote me? That's exactly right. If I'm a HC, my first obligation is to the team, not to any one individual. If I'm an HC I want my best people in positions to make the program better. I'm loyal to the program first. That's my job, and that's what makes being a HC tough. You have to make those tough calls. What you'd term a "demotion" I'd term a "reorganization..." but you can look at it whatever way you want. Now, make no mistake, there are a lot more vaiables than just saying the guy "has more experience" or "knows his x's and o's better"....but bottom line is that if someone comes in and is clearly a good fit and a superior coach, I'm putting him in a leadership position. Now, where you really make your money is communicating the reasons for the change to the guy who held the position before hand. You'd have to make sure he understands. "Staff Loyalty" is a LOT different than "good ole boys network" and I want guys on my staff that are there for the kids and the program, not because they "busted their a$$ for 3 years" and feel like they deserve a title. Also, as you should know, it's not about how much a$$ you have to bust, it's about who gets the job done the best. You appreciate the a$$ busting, but at the end of the day, you want the guy who can produce results. I can run around like a frigging mad man for 16 hours a day, but if I'm not effective (or less effective than someone else who can do the job in 8 hours) what good am I? I would say that if "staff loyalty" is dependant upon me "taking care of my guys" rather than making tough calls that may not be popular to better our program, then I'd rather those coaches leave the program. I'd expect "loyalty" to be built around the fact that I make sound, difficult decisions for the overall well-being and health of the program. "Loyalty" is built upon respect, and respect is earned through doing things like this coach had to do. The decision may not be popular, but it is the right call...and THAT is true courage and is worthy of respect and loyalty from those who understand these things. I can't even believe I'm justifying this to someone.... Loch, What if the new coach who is a good fit because of his credentials is there for the wrong reasons? This is the case in my situation. Part of the reason the staff disagrees with this choice is because he is not here for the program. He is here to win and make himself look good. Our mission was to do things right and win. Now this guy is suggesting questionable recruiting tactics and other stuff to win. Our head coach is being presuaded by this guy because of his credentials. The whole program that we built up is being swayed off its path because of one experienced guy. He came from a really prestigious school who wins a lot, but is always questioned on recruiting and other stuff.
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Post by lochness on Feb 17, 2009 6:43:07 GMT -6
Again, there are a million variables that go into a situation like this. I'd say that this is a circumstance where, if any assistants find this situation to be unacceptable, they should be moving on to other assignments.
I've been there, and I myself have left is a case like the one you are describing. Fortunately, that guy was fired in the off-season and I was able to withdraw my resignation before the next season began.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 17, 2009 8:46:37 GMT -6
When I worked on Terry Bowden's staff at Salem College he told the six assistants this. "Every one has a vote in our decisions, I have seven."
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coachgeorge51
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Post by coachgeorge51 on Feb 17, 2009 8:47:17 GMT -6
It's simple.................talk to him directly about your concerns, express your views very clearly and stay objective. If you can't support him 100% publicly with the kids, coaches, etc., then you have to leave and find a different position.
Loyalty is a must. Being a head coach myself, sometimes you make decisions that are for the betterment of the program long-term. This may be difficult for some assistants to understand and sometimes it is not about the person at all, its about the overall feeling the HC has about the direction of the program.
If you can't support him, leave - for your sake and his.
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