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Post by airman on Feb 2, 2008 14:09:57 GMT -6
I was watching firday night lights. qb1 shows up to practice. OC asks head coach if he smells the breath of the qb. the qb has been drinking.
what do you do? in the tv show, the head coach looks the other way. now I know in a tv show this can work out but in real life, I think if you give the qb a pass when you know he is drinking, he will continue to use it to his own benefit.
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Post by coachcalande on Feb 2, 2008 14:45:57 GMT -6
I SEND HIM HOME. I CALL HOME, I CALL THE PRINCIPAL AND AD. PERIOD.
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Post by coachnicholson on Feb 2, 2008 15:16:33 GMT -6
I agree with Coach Calande wholeheartedly! I would also dismiss him from the team. You don't need that kind of cancer infecting the rest of your squad.
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Post by Yash on Feb 2, 2008 15:22:45 GMT -6
Get rid of him. You have to sacrifice some wins for morals. Suck up your pride and show that you run a program that will produce good men as well as players and that they can be both.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2008 15:31:17 GMT -6
Yeah, this one is pretty cut and dry to me--cut him whether he's the first-string, all-american QB or the sixth string right guard.
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Post by coachcalande on Feb 2, 2008 16:07:38 GMT -6
I cant say "get rid of him" unless that is the school policy. ie, a few years ago, there was an incident of a kid smoking pot....kid got caught, coach cut him...principal and super put him back on the team figuring he needed the program more than the program needed him. I would say check with the chain of command. make him run either way.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 2, 2008 16:12:24 GMT -6
I wouldn't get rid of him. I'd make him run sprints til he pukes then have a nice talk with him ater practice.
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Post by ajreaper on Feb 2, 2008 17:21:12 GMT -6
While obviously a bad decision on his part how can you help a young man if he's no longer around? It's possible you and the program might be that kids last best chance to get his life on the course it needs to be. One job we have is to help boys become men- I'd have to say I'd not get rid of him but he'd be paying a price every day for a good while and there'd be some mentoring taking place as well.
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 2, 2008 17:29:49 GMT -6
guess you guys don't have due process in your school districts...
your school district should have a written policy in place for how a teacher, coach, or school employee should handle a situation in which a student or player is suspected of being under the influence. "he smelled drunk" ain't gonna cut it and we all know it won't. follow the plan established by the isd. if they don't have one you better think about how you are going to a) prove the player is under the influence b) get parents involved immediately c) notify those administrators higher up the chain than you.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 2, 2008 18:12:42 GMT -6
Just cause he smelt like booz doesnt mean he was drunk. If it was a saturday or sunday morning practice he could have just been hung over.
If a player smelt like alcohol at practice then it's a very low possibility he is drunk. First because if it was an after school practice, what was he doing drinking in school? And if it was a morning practice, what washe doing drinking at 8am? Highly doubt it. I'd say he was hungover. Therefore not needing to be kicked off the team.
Similiar situation happened at a practice my senior year. 4 of the players wreaked like alcohol but they weren't drunk. Just hungover from the night before. Coach was not happy at all. They ran alot extra and were spoken to privately.
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Post by tothehouse on Feb 2, 2008 18:30:56 GMT -6
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 2, 2008 18:59:32 GMT -6
I think those athletes getting suspended is wrong and I'll tell you why.... They were not arrested and it wasn't at school, at a school funtion, or at anything having to do with school. If they were arrested then yes they should be suspended. If it was at school or during any school even, then yes they should be suspended. But it wasn't and it seems like it wasn't specified in the contract. To get suspended by the school where I am you have to be either caught by the police, arrested, or at a school event/school.
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trojan
Junior Member
[F4:wingtcoach.com] [F4:wingtcoachdon]
Posts: 494
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Post by trojan on Feb 2, 2008 19:04:15 GMT -6
My first reaction would be to cut him, but then I thought it over. If he IS a drunk, repeatedly, then cutting him is best for the team, and an easy call. If he got drunk and it was out of character for him, and he did show up to practice, then there might be alternatives.
I'm a big believer in second chances, just not fifteen second chances. I'd like to follow spos21ram's advice (the sprints and the talk), and hope I wasn't making a mistake.
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 2, 2008 19:07:31 GMT -6
still waiting to hear how the "proof" will be laid out that this young man was drunk ....
otherwise, the steps mentioned (i'm going to cut him, I'm going to run him) are meaningless and could be cause for major problems with the school board, the parents, the legal system.
the FIRST thing you better do is figure out how you can prove this
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Post by tothehouse on Feb 2, 2008 19:18:44 GMT -6
Ram - the athletic code states that a player will be suspended for using any illegal substances. Now, you are correct about the location piece, but it specifically states that just using anything is a violation. And the code is for 30 days. The girls only have (had) 2 weeks left of the season. It wouldn't matter anyway.
The language needs to be changed. A past board president put that language in the code to get his daughter out of a drinking incident when the X country team travelled to Mexico. He said that since the group was out of the country it was okay that they were drinking. I love abuses of power.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 2, 2008 19:22:56 GMT -6
Ram - the athletic code states that a player will be suspended for using any illegal substances. Now, you are correct about the location piece, but it specifically states that just using anything is a violation. And the code is for 30 days. The girls only have (had) 2 weeks left of the season. It wouldn't matter anyway. The language needs to be changed. A past board president put that language in the code to get his daughter out of a drinking incident when the X country team travelled to Mexico. He said that since the group was out of the country it was okay that they were drinking. I love abuses of power. It seems like if any of these girls got a lawyer then theyd be off the hook since there really is no proof they were drinking. "Sorry but the people at the party must have been mistaken, I was drinking water, i guess they thought it was vodka. Or I was drinking soda. Where's the breathalizer saying I was drunk?" When things like this happen off school grounds and the police never got involved the school better be extremely careful. Hard to proove anything. Thats why I hate when schools do this becuase if it were a court of law the school would have no case.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 2, 2008 19:37:41 GMT -6
I agree with Huey. You have got to bring the other assistants in right now and have them check the situation out. Then ASAP you need to contact the AD, and admin to get whatever type of report filed that you need to. I assume this practice is on school grounds, and therefore district policy for a pupil showing up drunk at a school function will have to be followed. Assuming the district has a policy he might get an out of school suspension for "x" number of days. (I believe the max here is 5 consecutive days....but I could be a little off.)
Now about sending him home....that could cause more trouble. If he IS drunk, and assuming he has to drive home, that could lead to more trouble if you did not attempt to stop him. Does anyone see where I am going with this?
Mom/Dad need to come and get him. Discipline report needs to go on file with the school and some type of due process (like it or not) should be followed. That way you cover your ah...butt.
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Post by cmow5 on Feb 2, 2008 19:50:15 GMT -6
To clear up the Friday Night Lights incident, The practice was after school. And QB1 missed that day and the previous day of school and practice. He is a great kid, never been in trouble, lives and takes care of his grandma, dad is in Iraq, and use to date the HC daughter. 3 games left and need to win them to make the playoffs, already lost your star RB because of off the field incident and defending state champs. With all of that going on what would you do? In that situation I would think I would run him and switch from the HC mode to the father mode since this is unusual behavior for this kid and his dad has been in the army since he could remember and never has really been around.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 2, 2008 19:53:56 GMT -6
Suspicion is not proof to send him home or kick him off the team; however, suspicion is enough to ask the School's Resource Officer to look into the issue. At that point it is off your hands. Then you follow policy.
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Post by ajreaper on Feb 2, 2008 21:38:08 GMT -6
LOL, couldn't an employer, in fact any of our employers send us home if they SUSPECTED we were drunk or had been drinking? You think they are going to give you a breathalyzer or draw blood first? Why would an underage kid not be sent home, or at least set out if you suspect he's been drinking? Let him practice and get hurt and it's reported he smelled of alcohol your butt's in a ringer over that I'd think. A school operates under much different legal rules then other institutions in matters of the law as it's first responsibility is to protect students- sometimes from themselves. I don't think you'd run into any legal issues if you said he smelled like a brewery so I sent him home. I don't know how you could "prove" he was drunk- the eye witness account of 2 or more coaches should be plenty to stand on if you choose to remove him. What the heck you going to do require he be tested on the spot?
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Post by tothehouse on Feb 2, 2008 21:41:54 GMT -6
Ram - The parents admitted their daughters were drinking. In fact, it was a parent who supplied the alcohol to them and allowed them to stay the night at this particular residence.
The pictures of them drinking at the party on My Space is probably proof enough as well. You can search through more articles from our local newspaper to find out more about this.
The court of public opinion frys them. Your point about the language could be an issue, but by the time anything is figured out...the season will be over anyway.
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Post by Coach Huey on Feb 2, 2008 22:03:08 GMT -6
LOL, couldn't an employer, in fact any of our employers send us home if they SUSPECTED we were drunk or had been drinking? You think they are going to give you a breathalyzer or draw blood first? Why would an underage kid not be sent home, or at least set out if you suspect he's been drinking? Let him practice and get hurt and it's reported he smelled of alcohol your butt's in a ringer over that I'd think. A school operates under much different legal rules then other institutions in matters of the law as it's first responsibility is to protect students- sometimes from themselves. I don't think you'd run into any legal issues if you said he smelled like a brewery so I sent him home. I don't know how you could "prove" he was drunk- the eye witness account of 2 or more coaches should be plenty to stand on if you choose to remove him. What the heck you going to do require he be tested on the spot? What I am saying is that you don't act as if you know 100% sure the student is drunk ... and, take an action that may be held against you and cause more trouble. What you should do is follow your district's policy. If there isn't one, then I would approach it as there is something amiss with the player's normal routine that you have noticed. Other personnel and the family may need to be brought into this. It needs to be handled with care and as "privately" as possible ... i.e. out of the public/team view. It is not their business during the "investigation" or "inquiry" portion. Yes, take the stance with the administration and parents that you are concerned for the player's health NOT his breaking of rules or the law (although, that will come out once guilt/innocence has been viably established). Describe his condition specifically .. i.e. his movements are off balance, stumbles, slurs his speech, has an abnormal odor, bloodshot eyes. DO NOT say, "he appears drunk" ... that presumes your stance and may immediately cause you to be on the defensive. First and foremost, take player's health and well-being as the point of concern. Have him checked by the trainer, mention to the family, have them come up to school (training room, etc.) ASAP if other officials have same suspicion and the field tests confirm (as much as can legally without blood test, of course) your thoughts. By keeping it private and initially handled as an injury, illness, or "something not right" with his normal actions and not that he is "drunk" you may make the path to taking action more easily traveled.
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Post by coachnicholson on Feb 3, 2008 0:37:27 GMT -6
If it is blatantly obvious = slurred speech, stumbling, etc. then yes, I cut him. If the administration climbs up my back for it then I know that they are not behind me and I need to move on. This past season we dealt with a group of seniors who had no discipline and played for themselves instead of the team. They constantly back talked coaches, ditched practice and some were even caught doing drugs and/or drinking alcohol, yet they were never dismissed from the team and we payed dearly for keeping these kids around. After these experiences I told myself that when I become a head coach that I will not hesitate to get rid of a kid who behaves in a manner that is detrimental to the TEAM.
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Post by coachveer on Feb 3, 2008 8:10:27 GMT -6
Our policy goes like this: "for the safety and security of the staff and the student" any student suspected of being under the influence of alcohol can be ask to blow into a Breathalyzer. The test can be given by an administrator or we can call the police school liaison officer and let him come to the office and give it. The reasoning behind this is two fold. First, what would happened if the kid had been drinking and the school "guessed wrong" and didn't take issue and the kid got into an accident on the way home. Second, we can call the parent and give them some facts. 1-Hey your son smelled of booze, however we gave him a breathizer and he blew a .000. He is being sent to practice and no further steps will be taken. 2-Your son smelled of booze and the test confirmed the fact that he been drinking, could you come into school, the police are on the way.
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Post by kcbazooka on Feb 3, 2008 8:19:59 GMT -6
We are talking a tv show here ---- The only thing i would do different if i was in charge of Friday Night Lights is show the tall blond volleyball player more (the actress is in her 20's so its OK!)
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Post by coachnicholson on Feb 3, 2008 9:28:58 GMT -6
This past season we dealt with a group of seniors who had no discipline and played for themselves instead of the team. They constantly back talked coaches, ditched practice and some were even caught doing drugs and/or drinking alcohol, yet they were never dismissed from the team and we payed dearly for keeping these kids around. The behavior you witnessed was either modeled or allowed, I assume you guys didn't model it, so it was allowed. Regardless of whether you could kick them off or not, if you guys played the kids who acted like that, then you're going to need a mirror to lay blame. No one is NECESSARY. They will tell you who you can and can't kick off, but they don't tell you who you have to play. FYI for you - you aren't done paying for it. I did NOT allow anything and I do NOT need a mirror to lay blame because I did not have the power to make the necessary choices! What is your last statement implying?
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Post by toddniklaus on Feb 4, 2008 9:25:23 GMT -6
We have a policy. The young man would be giving a Breathalyzer by the school principal. If it read positive the police would be called first then his parents. Luckily it has never happened to any of my players but it has happened a few times at school.
We breath test every student who comes to a school dance when they enter and when they leave. The school has been doing it for the past 15 years or so and the parents love it. Some freshmen every year tries to test it and gets caught it seems, but now it is ingrained in the culture.
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Post by oguru on Feb 5, 2008 16:18:06 GMT -6
Well unles your school has a policy like toddniklaus you can't do that. With out evidence you have no proof. So your screwed either way on this.Also lets remember airman this was TV on a non realistic show. Hollywood is not reality.
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Post by coache67 on Feb 5, 2008 17:04:49 GMT -6
What dcohio is saying to you in that you aren't finished paying for it is the younger kids who saw it (even if it is just three players) will test you guys just like the players this year.
As far as the hypothetical situation - here is a real one:
Week 10, conference championship, state playoff berth on the line - star player from opponent is out drinking with his older brother at the local in town. Second hand evidence, school gets involved, suspends him on Monday. Our kids catch wind of it and think the game is in the bag (RB on a run heavy team) - of course we tell them all week prepare for him to play, you didn't get this far by taking any team lightly, etc . . . School in question has zero tolerance policy until the family's lawyer comes in to school and starts throwing weight around. Was he just in a bar with his older brother home on leave or actually drinking? Did you personally see him drinking? Did he get arrested? Was he administered a breathalyzer?
Of course school officials couldn't answer these questions - Friday night kid plays and runs all over our a$$e$.
Ever since then, I'm more with Coach Huey on these situations.
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Post by coache67 on Feb 5, 2008 17:06:08 GMT -6
Oh, by the way, don't mean to put words in your mouth dcohio - that is what we call an inference in English class!
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