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Post by coachmathis on Sept 13, 2007 7:48:15 GMT -6
Here's the situation:
I was the head coach and ad at this school last year before moving to another school this year where I don't coach so I am volunteering at the old school. This school because it only offers part time coaching positions often ends up hiring younger coaches or coaches who are just getting started. One person in particular was interested and I had coached the kid and knew him a little but I knew that he couldn't coach.( This tells you age, I have been coaching for 4 years and Im 25 so this guy is young) He doesn't know anything about football. Well he wanted to coach and I advised the AD against it(he asked me) for the reason above. A circumstance came up and he ended up bringing the guy on. Im not there everyday do to time commitments at my school, but I am there enough to see that the young guy thinks he knows everything and doesnt know squat. To get to the gist of he will basically just change something the the head coach puts in without asking the head coach or anything. Remind you, he doesn't study the game at all. 1st scrimmage, I couldnt attend but team deal well although I talked to both coaches and they complained about each other to me. 2nd scrimmage, I was there and we were slaughtered. Team scored on the 1st 2 plays untouched and the other coach just takes he starting RB out for the rest of the plays. Towards the end of the scrimmage the two coaches engage in an embarrassingly loud and public argument because the young guys thinks he knows everything and just changes things without asking and the head coach finally notices it and they have it out yelling, the young guy is cursing the older guy is throwing his hat etc. Eventually the younger guy apologizes but he still does the same things. During games Im not sure that either of them pay attention or know what's going on. When it comes to change things or what we did wrong during the game they just often repeat what I have told them went wrong IMO. Practices are dreadfull. We never line up against a defense (during the game the wonder why the kids block the wrong men and I tell them this) the kids are always joking and playing around and there is 0 physicallity to practice or really working on anything that we need to improve on. I get frustrated but I don't say anything because I am not there everyday. For example, the young guy complains that the corners can't cover anyone(if i wrote his contradictions we would be here all night) but during practice, they practice covering by him playing them one on one. He doesn't mention one thing about footwork or read steps or anything that would go along with covering someone. They were doing this drill the other day and he asked if I had anything to say to them and I was so {censored} I said no. Here is how he game planned on defense. The coach hands him a sheet a plays the team ran last year under a different coach and says they might run this (the new guy is known for passing like they did the year before) He doesn't study the plays or think which personnel works best against this etc he just stands there and lines up and offense and has the defense out there and just game plans right there without studying the plays at all. Im frustrated but I show up almost everyday and I work hard on game days trying to correct mistakes and get the coaches to see things. I don't feel like I have the right to change or suggest much change because I am not always there. The head coach asked me the other day what I thought we could do to turn things around but I never answered. He also asked me to help with the O but I never got a chance. I am frustrated as hell but I dont know if I should speak up because again, I am not always there. Did I mention the fact that there is no pre-game routine what so ever, the young coach just does what the other team is doing. Should I speak up or not? I was so frustrated after last weeks game that I didn't even wanna coach with them anymore but Im not a quitter. Ill do everything to fix it and lose all the games before I quit. By the way this is a 6 man team even though I am an 11 man coach. Advice is very much welcomed.
Thanks and sorry for the rant
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Post by brophy on Sept 13, 2007 8:24:17 GMT -6
here is some advice
LEAVE
your gripe sounds personal and it doesn't sound like it is a good fit for either of you.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Sept 13, 2007 8:35:57 GMT -6
I agree, get out and find a better fit.
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 13, 2007 10:34:29 GMT -6
I actually like both coaches off the field.We all just sit around and chat a lot. I tell the young guy all the time he doesnt know anything about football and he should study the game. The head coach freely admits the he isnt a football whiz. I get irritated the most because I want to win. I think the biggest problem that I am having with the younger guy is that I feel that his know it all without studying the game is disrespectful to our profession. Most of us coaches put in hours year around studying to become better at what we do and he simply takes it for granted.
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Post by brophy on Sept 13, 2007 10:53:01 GMT -6
this will be taken the wrong way, but ....whatever.
You are 24. WHAT are you an expert on that you can throw this guy under the bus?
MOST of your "rant" is directly personally at this particular coach and how you would do it better. Is there something else going on (jealous, think you should have the job)?
Clearly, you don't respect the guy - so you have to ask yourself, why are you still with the program?
You want to stay on for what? Clearly it isn't to follow the direction of this guy.
So, either you become part of the solution or you leave.
If you hold this guy in such contempt, you won't be a part of the solution.
Are you expecting him to come to some great revelation and say, "Wow....coach so-and-so, you were right, I'm an idiot".
Is this a High School program or a middle school issue?
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 13, 2007 11:32:18 GMT -6
A. I am not 24 I am 25.
B. I did not say that I was an expert at anything, I said that I work to be better and he hasn't at all yet he pretends to know everything. I do have skins on the wall. I have been a coach on a team that lost in overtime in the state semi's and I was the head coach of a varsity basketball team that won two playoff games and made it to th elite 8 with 6 players in private school so I have had success as a coach. My age doesn't matter, I study the game alot from watching to reading to listening I do it. Im not a hot shot young guy who thinks he knows it all. I want to learn from more experienced coaches and others who are better so that I can be in the position one day.
C. I never once stated that I would do anything better than he could so either you can't read or our computers show two different posts. I stated that the head coach has asked for my opinion about things. I stated that he doesn't study the game or anything. I am not jealous and I don't want the job. Again your last comment about him saying that to me would not happen because I don't proclaim to be a genius or anything of the sort. I don't say you shouldn't do that or anything of the sort.If my opinion is asked I give it, if not I play my part.
D. I don't think you seem to understand, I am frustrated because I know that he does not study the game. It would be the equivalent of you as a coach being offended if a parent made a suggestion or something of the sort. The first thing that you would think is probably would does he know about football I study the game etc etc. Put that parent in the locker room and on your practice field and you wouldn't like it either and in charge of certain things. I freely admit that I am not a football guru but I know that I am working to become a better football coach.
E. You are right I probably can't be part of the solution because I can't force him to study football all that I can do is suggest it.
Thanks for the comment though because I would never had looked at it from that angle and he may see it that way.
I am not a great coach but I am working towards being one.
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Post by wingman on Sept 13, 2007 12:04:40 GMT -6
Number 1, if their practices and game preparation is as bad as you say, it doesn't mattr what you do unless you are at a very low level of football. However, if I wasn't there to help all the time, I wouldn't be trying to change everything.
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 13, 2007 12:38:25 GMT -6
I agree with you 100 percent wingman that why I don't say anything when he asks me what I think. I only tell him what I see during the game because I am there. I just am not comfortable at all making suggestions for change for that exact reason.
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wccoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 159
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Post by wccoach on Sept 13, 2007 22:32:58 GMT -6
If someone asks you what you think would help and you don't say anything then you are just as fault as they are. You say you want them to learn to be better coaches, but when they come to you for help you do not offer any. I do not understand what your issue is. If you are a part time volunteer and you don't want to help when they ask then what are you doing there? I think you should get out because you are of no help to them. I find your posture of "I know better than you , but I am not going to give any help when asked" very strange for someone that says he is striving to become a better coach. If you want to be a better coach then COACH!
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Post by utchuckd on Sept 14, 2007 6:56:37 GMT -6
If someone asks you what you think would help and you don't say anything then you are just as fault as they are. You say you want them to learn to be better coaches, but when they come to you for help you do not offer any. I do not understand what your issue is. If you are a part time volunteer and you don't want to help when they ask then what are you doing there? I think you should get out because you are of no help to them. I find your posture of "I know better than you , but I am not going to give any help when asked" very strange for someone that says he is striving to become a better coach. If you want to be a better coach then COACH! What he said! Seriously, part time or not you're still a coach on the staff and it's your duty to give your opinion when asked about it. Not saying anything just adds to the problem. You've obviously got some observations and ideas and experience that can help, so if they ask you for help then help 'em! |
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 14, 2007 7:18:57 GMT -6
wccoach, I agree with one part, that I should have helped at that situation but I didn't and I was wrong.I was frustrated and it got the best of me. I am not sure if I know where you have the taking the message of "I know better than you" from because I didn't write that anywhere.I am not in the business of who is better than who. As far as helping when they ask, I do all the time except for this one occasion. He only wants me there on game day but I come almost everyday. I would hope that in other circumstances you don't simply take one small snippet and make a broad generalization as you are doing now when you say that I don't want to help when they ask me. I couldn't give instant feedback when asked what we could do differently because I needed to think about it. Like I said, I am not very comfortable making suggestions because I am not there everyday. I just have one question for you, how am I at fault because he doesn't study the game? My frustration could be completely misguided. I will say this, any coach that I have talked to that has been to our practices or our games immediately understands what I am talking about.
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Post by brophy on Sept 14, 2007 10:30:15 GMT -6
so.......whatta ya gonna do? Im not a hot shot young guy who thinks he knows it all. I want to learn from more experienced coaches and others who are better so that I can be in the position one day.
I never once stated that I would do anything better than he could so either you can't read or our computers show two different posts. The majority of your message is a judgmental
"This kid can't coach, he is doing this-this-and-this wrong"If someone is doing it "wrong", obviously there is a 'right' way to do it. By you pointing out all the "wrongs", you evidently have the 'right' way. The Words and Message are delivered in a sanctimonious / indignant manner, in which you are expecting things to be done "your way", even though you are a part-time guy. Now there are coaches here giving you some feedback, yet every post that gives you a contrary opinion, you get defensive about. So are you just looking for people to pat you on the back and agree with you because you feel a little impotent in the position you currently hold? Like I said, you can't save the world - move on to somewhere that 1) appreciates you like you feel you should be 2) somewhere where you respect the people you serve. If you work for an employer, but you hate his every-living-guts, don't you think that attitude will come out, even if you don't "say anything"? The bottom line, the HEAD COACH holds the keys. HE chose to hire and utilize this guy. This "kid" is appointed to serve a function for the head coach. It is the Head Coach's job to make sure each staff member is managed correctly. You, as you said, are not available because of time issues to fulfill any type of serious position on the staff, therefore.....play your role, offer your opinion behind closed doors, but ultimately, you have to SUBMIT to the authority of the HEAD COACH (and his assistants). Now in regard to this "kids" age......like you said, age doesn't matter. There are plenty of 45 year old coaches that have no rhyme or reason to their method, so I would recommend just focussing on the ISSUES, and not the prejudices (former player, younger than you, holding a position of authority over you). |
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wccoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 159
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Post by wccoach on Sept 14, 2007 10:55:39 GMT -6
It is very likely that I am misguided. I interpreted your post about all the things that are wrong with the program and your frustration with these issues as a statement that you had a better solution than the people in charge. If I am incorrect with this interpretation, then I apologize. But that is what I get out of your series of posts. You also did not give any examples of suggestions or ideas that you have instituted or suggested that have helped the team. As far as the coach not doing any game planning, what have you done to help him with this item. Sometimes young coaches don't know what they don't know. Bring him in a sample scouting report with some tendency reports and maybe some self-scouting forms and information. If they still don't prepare correctly, then there is not much you can do for them. I have been a volunteer coach before and understand how it can be frustrating when things are not going well, but I have always found a way to help within the system. Presenting the coaches with statistical information and well prepared scouting information may be what turns them around. I would give it a shot and see what happens.
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 14, 2007 11:03:27 GMT -6
Yeah utchuckd, I admit I drop the ball there. As I said like an idiot I let my frustration get the best of me. Brophy I plan to do what any standup guy would do. I am going to keep working and try to help out the team in anyway that I can. Both of the coaches there are great guys. I am in it to the finish!!! I love the school and the kids and the people who work there.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Sept 14, 2007 11:34:59 GMT -6
Let your frustrations be known. Talk to the HC about it, but don't let it interfere with your coaching performance or let it permeate to the kids (don't trash talk the coach).
You have a right to be frustrated. You seem to care for the outcome of the program. Some might say that you are just whining because things aren't being done to your tastes, but I think this situation is justified.
If things don't change then PART WAYS. Cite obvious philisophical differences, but don't bash the young coach- keep it impersonal.
Good luck
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Post by wildcat on Sept 15, 2007 17:55:32 GMT -6
I worked with a guy last year who would only show up on Friday nights. His step-dad was our O/C and he (our O/C) just thought this guy was the be-all, end-all. The thing was, the guy was a complete, 100% dousche. The guy swooped in on Friday night, grabbed a clipboard, and acted like SuperCoach on the sideline. The kids hated him because he would chew them out even though he didn't know them and had no relationship with them and the other coaches resented him because we had put the work in with the kids all week and this guy (who parrotted just about every bad "ESPN College Football Overdrive" cliche possible) acted like top dog on Friday night. The biggest problem was our HC didn't like confrontation and was too weak to tell this idiot to stop coming around, so the issue was never resolved and we had to deal with this asshat all year.
Now, I'm not sure about your particular situation, but I think you have to be very careful about being overly critical when you are a part-timer. Enjoy the time you get to spend with the kids, learn what you can (sometimes knowing how NOT to run a program is a valuable lesson), build your resume, and move on when the opportunity presents itself.
Keep your criticisms and perceptions about what is "wrong" with the program to yourself. IMO, you are really not in any position to be offering criticism of the program.
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Post by coachorr on Sept 15, 2007 23:04:44 GMT -6
Coach Mathis, I am frustrated that I had to read one long paragraph.
You obviously can't write.
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 17, 2007 7:27:52 GMT -6
Orr, thanks for the comment. I will be sure to grade you on how you write from now on when I read your posts.
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 17, 2007 7:32:59 GMT -6
Wildcat- I don't think that because I am a part-timer I work less than the other two coaches. The coach in question is actually part-time as well. I am not critical of the program nor am I stating what is wrong with it. I am simply stating that this coach does not work at all at becoming a better coach and he knows little to nothing about football but he professes to know it all.
The guy you described is similar to this guy, except this guy is there almost everyday.
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Post by coachorr on Sept 18, 2007 13:25:48 GMT -6
Coach Mathis,
I was simply making a point. Sorry to seem like a jerk, but when I come off as a noitall, then people usually are unwilling to listen to what I have to say. Yes, the paragraph was hard to read, but I just wanted to pick out something that was inconsequential.
How would you have responded if I would have said, "Great post Coach Mathis. I I can definitely see where you are coming from and I am not sure what I would do in that situation. Perhaps you try getting all of the coaches in the office and address your concerns and work on a way to fix the inconsitencies that you are seeing. I had a little bit of trouble reading your post because of the long paragraph"?
Then I wait for your response. If no response I leave it alone.
If you say, "What long paragraph, I don't know what you mean?" Then I might say. "Well, I have had a lot of success by trying to break up my ideas into shorter paragraphs, do want me to show you some examples?"
And then you can go from there. I think what you are seeing is definitely a problem, however, since you are not the head cat in charge, then you have to approach it in such a way that gains trust from your colleague.
If this person is ambivelent to what you are saying, then you might want to have a meeting with the HC. It sounds like you have some very valid points.
I could care less what age someone is, everyone has the ability to contribute. I have learned a lot from others who are younger than me. As long as their reading level is 25 years of age and not 24, then I believe what they are saying.
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Post by briangilbert on Sept 19, 2007 23:04:15 GMT -6
I coached for my HC after I was done playing in college and I couldn't stand him but it was a place to start coaching. My best advice to you...
LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Find a better job.
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Post by coachmathis on Sept 20, 2007 6:33:19 GMT -6
Coachorr,
I agree with you, you can learn from people of any age. I don't subscribe to the notion that you do that just because you are of a certain age and can read at the level I believe what you say. Thanks for the response. I will not respond to the other things. Here is a tiny bit of information, if you are going to start shooting your mouth off about proper English, make sure you follow the first rule of writing paragraphs, ALWAYS INDENT THE FIRST LINE!!!!!
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Post by coachjim on Sept 20, 2007 6:42:01 GMT -6
"I actually like both coaches off the field.We all just sit around and chat a lot. I tell the young guy all the time he doesnt know anything about football and he should study the game. The head coach freely admits the he isnt a football whiz. I get irritated the most because I want to win. I think the biggest problem that I am having with the younger guy is that I feel that his know it all without studying the game is disrespectful to our profession. Most of us coaches put in hours year around studying to become better at what we do and he simply takes it for granted."
"I actually like both coaches off the field." <------ That's what makes it 'personal' and why none of you listen to each other. Mark Twain said, "An expert, is someone who comes from out of town." Especially around friends. When you put on your game face, there are no friends. If you love the program and all around you is this:
"... the biggest problem that I am having with the younger guy is that I feel that his know it all without studying the game is disrespectful to our profession.."
...Learn what you can from them, this year, watch them fail and learn from that too.. next year go for HC... and only mix work and dreams with assistants from out of town, that listen with their ears and not with thir mouths; where nothing is 'personal'.
I've been through this... lack of HC prep is the worst, but fortunately, usually, sadly apparent. Shine in what You do, teach quiet funds... and you will shine the brightest to be a good HC candidate. Your goal, heart, and obligation to the team is in that direction. IMO.
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Post by coachorr on Sept 21, 2007 11:33:32 GMT -6
You got me!
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Post by coachorr on Sept 21, 2007 11:36:58 GMT -6
I was writing in "memo" format. Okay, I'll admit it, I don't know Jack about writing.
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