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Post by cqmiller on May 26, 2006 7:48:56 GMT -6
I have seen that almost everyone HATES the new rule in CT. Made me think back to all the football I've played in my life. I can only remember the other team "Running up the score" on me 1 time in my life.
Other than that 1 time, I've been in a lot of blowout wins AND losses, but I've never "run it up" or thought that the other team "ran it up" on us.
What is your guys' experience?
It sounds to me, that this rule was made because of 1 "***hole" in CT.
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nannother
Sophomore Member
GREATEST RB EVER
Posts: 122
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Post by nannother on May 26, 2006 8:48:57 GMT -6
There was a guy in Mississippi, class 3A, whose son was the QB. He threw every down, so his would look good. I can’t remember the exact score but they beat a team (a really bad team) by 80 or 90 points. They threw homerun balls until the final whistle. The sad part was they weren’t that good either. We just happened to have them on our schedule that year, so we decided to do the same to them. We beat them somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 points. I was disappointed that we couldn’t show him just how it felt to get punished like that. There’s no need.
I hate the thought of butt holes like that teaching my kids how to be a butt hole. People like that should not be allowed to coach our youth. Guys, we mentor those kids. I coach because my life was changed, for the better, by a coach. Had he been a butt hole, what kind of person would I be? To some of these kids we’re teaching more than just football; we’re teaching character, morals, and life skills. I want to win just as much or more than the next guy, but most of all I want to teach my players how to be men.
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Post by phantom on May 26, 2006 9:14:40 GMT -6
I can think of two games where the other guy ran it up and the funny part was that neither game would qualify as a blowout under the Connecticut rule. In both games our opponent had a 3-4 TD lead and called a time out with seconds remaining to tack on another one.
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Post by bulldog on May 26, 2006 9:51:37 GMT -6
Can someone explain the CT rule? I don't think you can legislate sportmanship or class.
We've had the score run-up on us by an immature, class-less coach. He was up by 3-4 TD's late in Q4 and left his starters in the game. With a minute left, he threw a double pass against our second string defense (non-league game), then went for the 2 point conversion.
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Post by cqmiller on May 26, 2006 9:53:51 GMT -6
If team A wins by 50 points or more. Then team A's coach gets suspended for the next game.
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nannother
Sophomore Member
GREATEST RB EVER
Posts: 122
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Post by nannother on May 26, 2006 10:03:51 GMT -6
If team A wins by 50 points or more. Then team A's coach gets suspended for the next game. What about those games where everything falls into place for you. I coached a game not long ago where Defensively we killed them. It was 56-0 at the half but the ball never crossed the 50 the whole half. It crossed once the entire game. In situations like that, it's almost impossible not to score. Defensively we scored twice that half. I sure all of you agree that kneel downs are not an option that early in the game, so what do you do?
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Post by coachjd on May 26, 2006 10:05:40 GMT -6
I had one team run the score up on us in a section quarterfinal game. They scored late in the game to make it 38-21 with 5 seconds left in the game and then ran a fake extra point for 2 points. The TD was legit, but the fake extra point was BS.
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Post by cqmiller on May 26, 2006 10:22:39 GMT -6
If team A wins by 50 points or more. Then team A's coach gets suspended for the next game. What about those games where everything falls into place for you. I coached a game not long ago where Defensively we killed them. It was 56-0 at the half but the ball never crossed the 50 the whole half. It crossed once the entire game. In situations like that, it's almost impossible not to score. Defensively we scored twice that half. I sure all of you agree that kneel downs are not an option that early in the game, so what do you do? That is what the big problem is. There is a big difference between a team being up 35-0 or 42-0 at half, or early in the 3rd quarter, who puts in the sophomores & freshman, and a coach who is up 42-0 in the 4th, and is dropping back with his varsity starters and running trick plays, and onside kicking the ball to try and score more. If a 14/15 year old freshman breaks through the middle against the varsity guys from the other team, is this young kid supposed to "stop running" so his coach doesn't get suspended? Other ? I have. Say I'm up 35-0 on a team, and I put in my JV/Frosh players...If I run a few curl routes, or basic pass plays with my younger kids, would you guys consider this "running up the score?" A few years ago we were getting beat pretty bad, and the other team had their JV team in with a Soph @ QB. Our DC was putting 9 in the box EVERY PLAY. So the other coach ran a couple hitches, curls, slants, on 1st/2nd down, so his OL & RB's wouldn't get slammed, (and possibly hurt) by trying to run into a 9 man front. A few of our coaches were mad about that, but I had no problem with it. I would probably do the same thing, if I had my Sophmore QB in... What do you guys think?
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nannother
Sophomore Member
GREATEST RB EVER
Posts: 122
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Post by nannother on May 26, 2006 10:38:16 GMT -6
That's a different situation and in my opinion you're supposed to throw. If you're up 35-0 beginning the 4th quarter and your routine is run, run, throw on third down, I have no problem, because you're trying to eat up the clock. But on-sides, hail Marys, and timeouts are intentional and should be penalized. As far as you Sophomore QB, they have JV games for experience. Throw only when necessary. I think a suspension is only needed when it's intentional, but not when your kid play hard and do what they're supposed to. They should be allowed to play.
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Post by blb on May 26, 2006 10:39:08 GMT -6
Never done it, can't remember having it done to me (although I have been on both ends of lopsided scores).
Trick plays, two-pointers (unless you never kick), time-outs to score again, and onside kicks are no-nos.
Your only responsibility is to substitute. You should keep running your offense. The other guy needs to surrender, too - I don't want to put my backups in to get beat up by his starters or so they can pad their stats in a meaningless way.
Last fall our second offense ran the kneel-down play inside the two at the end of games we were ahead 28-10 and 35-7.
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Post by Yash on May 26, 2006 10:52:17 GMT -6
I coach in Alaska and the quality of teams from the top to the bottom is a huge gap. Last year we won 71-0 against a team and only had 300 yards of offense. They always turned it over on their end of the field so it was hard not to score. We couldn't punt because we were inside the 20 usually. We made the JV go get dressed at halftime to make sure we didn't break 100 on them. It was 54-0 at halftime. you can only pull off so much without taking a knee every play.
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Post by mudslinger on May 26, 2006 10:57:10 GMT -6
One thing that happens in blowout games is: Your 2nd and 3rd string guys are bustin their a$$ cuz they have got some PT now........Your beaten opponents starters are already beat down and might be "playin it out".......If subs are playing I cant see them being told to lay down after theyve been bustin it all week/year for some PT...........Alter play calling and what happens, happens...........Just my thought
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Post by coachcalande on May 26, 2006 11:02:51 GMT -6
Ill tell ya what, its not big scoring bothers me as much as blitzing and trying to score more when a) i have subbed in my real young guys and b) you have not. that could be the case where we are killing you or you are killing us, when the game is "over" both coaches should consider using good judgement. Nothing frustrates me more than when its clear that the game is out of hand and one coach just refuses to put the backups on the field. eh, ask no quarter and give no quarter....I tell my kids to just play the game, i guess the coaches should just coach it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2006 11:14:05 GMT -6
I think Coach Calande mentioned something that involves where I want to head next with this topic. I'm not sure what my answer to this question is, but does preserving a shutout constitute running up the score? Here are two situations that I have been in, unfortunately on the losing end both times.
My junior year in high school, we were terrible and my school for whatever reason scheduled a perennial small school IL powerhouse for Homecoming. We are down 30something to 0 in the fourth quarter and their JV guys are playing. We only had 31 guys FRESHMEN to senior so we really don't have a second string to put in. We start driving the ball and get to the opponents 20. Other school subs in the varsity defense and we don't score.
Second situation was college, down 40something to nothing in the 4th quarter. BOTH teams have their second string in (I was second string tackle) and we drive the ball on their subs. We get first and goal from the 5 yard line and in comes the first team D. We scored two plays later, but I thought their move was a little bush league.
Thoughts?
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Post by cqmiller on May 26, 2006 11:29:02 GMT -6
If it's past the halfway-point of the season, and the other team hasn't allowed a TD all season (I played a team that had not allowed a TD in the first 7 games of the season). I can see doing that, just for a pride standpoint, but that's the only way I would have my starters back in the game.
If the opponent's OC KNOWS that they haven't given up a TD in 7 games or whatever, then I think he could probably just kick a field goal once you get in range, to not Spoil it for the other team by scoring on their backups.
It takes BOTH COACHES to show some MATURITY and COMMON SENSE to do whats best for BOTH TEAMS, I think.
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Post by blb on May 26, 2006 11:29:52 GMT -6
I agree, wolverine55 - that's uncalled for.
I hope there is nothing in any state's high school playoff qualifying process that includes margin of victory.
Still, the Connecticut rule goes too far. There are too many variables as always in the human equation. If there is one guy who is the problem, sanction him!
Here's an extreme what if: You're beating my team by 50+ (you couldn't help it). My team is driving on your backups late. For whatever rerason - jealousy, spite, stupidity - I don't like you and would love to see you suspended the next week. So I make sure my team doesn't score or at least get the margin under 50. Now what?
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Post by phantom on May 26, 2006 11:31:59 GMT -6
I think Coach Calande mentioned something that involves where I want to head next with this topic. I'm not sure what my answer to this question is, but does preserving a shutout constitute running up the score? Here are two situations that I have been in, unfortunately on the losing end both times. My junior year in high school, we were terrible and my school for whatever reason scheduled a perennial small school IL powerhouse for Homecoming. We are down 30something to 0 in the fourth quarter and their JV guys are playing. We only had 31 guys FRESHMEN to senior so we really don't have a second string to put in. We start driving the ball and get to the opponents 20. Other school subs in the varsity defense and we don't score. Second situation was college, down 40something to nothing in the 4th quarter. BOTH teams have their second string in (I was second string tackle) and we drive the ball on their subs. We get first and goal from the 5 yard line and in comes the first team D. We scored two plays later, but I thought their move was a little bush league. Thoughts? In the first case, I have no problem with the coach putting the first D back in since you still had your 1st O playing. If it had been seconds on seconds I might feel differently. In the second case, well it's college and you're grown men. Personally, I wouldn't do it because of what you described. Now you've just had your 1st D scored on by the 2nd O.
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Post by wingtol on May 26, 2006 11:33:04 GMT -6
I have been involved in many games that were cnsidered "blowouts" and we kind of always had the same theory or routine when we got into games like that. We basically look at it like this: The first half any thing goes, you try and win the game and put it away if you can, we have been up like 30 before the half and have thrown the ball at end of the half to score, after half time first time we get the ball we call basic plays with the first team till we get past the 50 yd line or so, call a timeout and mass subistute the second string so A. so the first team can get some recognition from the fans and B. so everyone in the stadium knows that our second team is in. I like the way we do it then there are no questions as to when the starters came out. We do that anytime we are bringing in the second team. Don't know if that is right or not but thats the way we do it. We also arent out for blood with the second string/jv and call basic plays but dont ask the kids to not play hard. we did take a knee 3 times on thr 5 this year at the end of a game to keep from scoring.
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nannother
Sophomore Member
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Post by nannother on May 26, 2006 11:49:01 GMT -6
I think it's all situational. If you're using your starters to drive I'll put my starters in to stop you. If your backup's are driving against my backups, well my backups better tighten up. I like preserving the shout outs, but it's more rewarding if my 2nd string to do it. If the game is out of reach I don't care, but if you're taking advantage of my subs, I'll have to make all things fair.
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Post by phantom on May 26, 2006 12:18:32 GMT -6
I think it's all situational. If you're using your starters to drive I'll put my starters in to stop you. If your backup's are driving against my backups, well my backups better tighten up. I like preserving the shout outs, but it's more rewarding if my 2nd string to do it. If the game is out of reach I don't care, but if you're taking advantage of my subs, I'll have to make all things fair. That's exactly how I feel. We had a game once where we were a lot better and were up by a lot. We were playing with a running clock and had seconds and thirds in. Very late the other guys still had their firsts in and were chucking the ball and calling time outs. Although we never considered putting the firsts in it kind of pi$$ed me off because we had guys in who should have been managers. Well, on the last play of the game they're on our one and they fumble. Our 3rd team Rover- a sophomore JV- picks it up and takes it back for a TD. The clock ran out when he was at the 50 and I never laughed so hard during a football game.
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Post by lochness on May 26, 2006 12:19:38 GMT -6
We had a team 6 or 7 years ago that was up 64-0 on us at halftime and was throwing on us to try to score one more before halftime(with their starters). They went for 2 with fake PAT's and everything.
They scored again in the third and went for two, and ended up beating us 72-6. Never understood it. Never in our history had we ever blown them out or done anything that would have warrented such an embarassment. They just completely outclassed us that year (and everyone else) and wanted to demonstrate it.
During a non-league game (exhibition-doesn't count in the standings) a couple of years ago, we had a team come out and do pretty much the same thing. They were up 38-7 at halftime. They were going for 2 and kicking onside kicks on us. We pulled our starters to try to get the backups some quality reps, and these guys kept their varsity in because they wanted their star back to break their school rushing record. They ran 2 trick plays on us for TD's in the second half with their varsity after we had completely cleared the benches. Even the officials were coming to our sideline saying "We've already talked to them about it not being necessary to go for 2 and kick an onside kick against your JV after every TD..." but we never complained. It's weird too, because 2 years before that, we were up 27-6 on them and were driving with our JV's and we took a knee on the goal line because we felt absolutely no need to embarass them with an unnecessary score at the end of the 4th quarter. I guess they didn't feel that same way about us.
Other than that, we have never run it up on anybody. That's the God's honest truth. The highest margin of victory in school history was 48-7, and the last 3 TD's were all scored by back-ups (and we're not going to tell them not to score, especially if they're breaking 30-yard TD runs on straight ahead dives against their varsity). BUT we don't go for 2 and then kick onside kicks afterward...and we don't leave our varsity in after the other coach has started to sub. It's like an unwritten code of honor. If he pulls his dudes because he feels like his starters aren't playing anymore, we put our JV's in the next play! Happened just this past season and we were only up 28-0.
There's a difference between scoring alot and keeping your varsity in so that your tailback can achieve an individual record during an embarassing blow-out.
I don't know, that's just my thoughts...
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Post by groundchuck on May 26, 2006 12:45:52 GMT -6
We had a coach beating us 48 nothing in the 4th quarter with 3 minutes left (and his 1st teamers still in) throw a fade for a TD vs what amounted to our 10th grade team. Then they tried to go for 2 which we stopped. After the game his AD came over and apologized for his coach's action. It would have been one thing to break a trap or toss for a TD. I am not saying don't score. It is our job to stop you. But when I have basically thrown in the towel with substitutions and he still had his #1s out there throwing deep no less I have a real issue with that. The funny thing is the following season his team was not that good, and other teams took turns running the score up on him. What goes around comes around.
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Post by phantom on May 26, 2006 13:28:59 GMT -6
Running it up is like obscenity- you know it when you see it. You win 72-0 but backups score the last 4 TDs, well that's just a good day. If you're up 28-0 and onside kicking and calling time outs, that's different.
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ci
Freshmen Member
Posts: 48
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Post by ci on May 26, 2006 14:48:27 GMT -6
This prime time for an officiating crew to take control of the ball game. A good crew will keep the clock running, with "good" spots for the underdog and "poorer" spots for the team on top. It's always good to see some positives a big loss;likewise, some negatives in a win. It's a tough situation on both sides. You have to give your kids work, but no need to embarrass someone. Also, if you're around long enough, pay-back's a bitch.
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Post by poweriguy on May 26, 2006 15:08:56 GMT -6
In regards to that Conneticut rule, years ago in a local Pop Warner league, there was such a rule where the coach got suspended for running it up.
That year one team was just head and shoulders above the rest of the league. That's the way it goes sometimes.
Well when he played the team my buddy coached, they got up by 35 points at half. And the second half, they got the opening kickoff, and on first down sent his punt team out and kicked the ball away.
Then my buddys team ran a few plays, stalled and punted. The other team had no one back to recieve. Then on offence, same thing, sent the punt team out on first down and punted.
After the game the coach apologized to the coaches and team for punting so much.
Then I asked my bud what that was all about. And he answered "we have a f*cked up rule in our league that needs to go!"
So I think at the end of the year the rule was ditched thankfully.
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Post by paydirt18 on May 26, 2006 22:51:48 GMT -6
I think this rule has "liberal" written all over it. Its on the same lines as "why keep score?", or in little league-no matter where you place, you still get a trophy. I think that is garbage. It is not good for the kids-to not teach winners and losers. That is life. So when this same kid is taught that scoring is not important then later in life loses out on a job interview what do you say to him? Screw that. As far as running the score up, I am not a fan. However, if your #2s and #3s are doing the damage-what are you to do?
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Post by optionguy on May 27, 2006 12:24:36 GMT -6
Its my responsibility to make sure my team is prepared, and that means, it is my responsibility to win, and if my team can't win, it is my responsibility not to get blown out!
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Post by airman on May 27, 2006 18:54:31 GMT -6
i think anything goes in the first half, regardless of the score.
I had the score run up on me once. how did I know, well they were a wishbone option team, they were leading 49-0 and their qb threw 3 tds in the 4th quarter, wiht his starters against our subs.
the guys who get me are the ones who feel you are running up the score when you are a throwing team and you are throwing in the second half. I would never tell another coach to work on his throwing during practice, but I have heard many of times, hey, airman, why don't you get a run game.
seems to me there is a big double standard based on your philosophy of offensive football. it is okay to run up the score if you run the ball. if you throw it, your are running up the score.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 27, 2006 19:30:35 GMT -6
airman, I was waiting for someone to bring that point up. Something else that people aren't mentioning though, is that if you are a RUNNING TEAM...and you are throwing late in the game, aren't you really trying to take it easy on a team? You have already shown a physical dominance by running the ball down their throats to the tune of a blowout score, perhaps it is BEST if you do throw the ball.
As for passing teams, I think they SHOULD run the ball when they are up big passing, for the same reasons above.
That said, I think that the DC of the losing team has a lot to do with it. If he wants the other team to pull off the horses, I think he needs to follow similar procedures...pull some starters...and play a base defense.
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Post by airman on May 27, 2006 19:41:30 GMT -6
airman, I was waiting for someone to bring that point up. Something else that people aren't mentioning though, is that if you are a RUNNING TEAM...and you are throwing late in the game, aren't you really trying to take it easy on a team? You have already shown a physical dominance by running the ball down their throats to the tune of a blowout score, perhaps it is BEST if you do throw the ball. As for passing teams, I think they SHOULD run the ball when they are up big passing, for the same reasons above. That said, I think that the DC of the losing team has a lot to do with it. If he wants the other team to pull off the horses, I think he needs to follow similar procedures...pull some starters...and play a base defense. okay I need a beer(and i do not drink). some has some splaining to do. it is okay for a running team to work on their passing game when up 60 to 0. however a passing team should wast valuable practice time on developign a running game. as whitney houston would say, crack is wacked. that is the most illogical line of thought I have ever heard. if run teams want to work on their passing game, why not do it in the first quarter, you know, when the game means some thing. not when you are up 60 to 0 and a interception will not hurt you. see, most run teams fear the forward pass and that is why it is easy to throw it when you are up by a few tds.
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