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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 27, 2024 11:35:01 GMT -6
We lost in a close game. Turned the ball over a few too many times.
However, our D coaches made a cut up of all of the holdings that didn't get called. Like jersey coming off the player, tackled in open field, jumped on the back of sort of holdings...not the petty little ones that slow a player down a half step.
25 clips!!!! 25!!!
Anyone seen any course of action that has had an impact?
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 27, 2024 12:41:10 GMT -6
We lost in a close game. Turned the ball over a few too many times. However, our D coaches made a cut up of all of the holdings that didn't get called. Like jersey coming off the player, tackled in open field, jumped on the back of sort of holdings...not the petty little ones that slow a player down a half step. 25 clips!!!! 25!!! Anyone seen any course of action that has had an impact? Quite frankly, high school sports might not exist in 15 years because of the lack of officials. Not quality officials, just officials. I have never met any official actively trying to be terrible at their job. When you have a massive shortage of officials, this is what it will come to. EDIT-- Wanted to clarify, not saying that your frustrations are not warranted. Maybe turning in the clips to the assignment office etc. will allow those guys to improve. Just saying that the constant beratement of officials in all sports by all parties (fans, coaches, players) very well may have a serious cost.
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Post by blb on Oct 27, 2024 12:59:32 GMT -6
We lost in a close game. Turned the ball over a few too many times. However, our D coaches made a cut up of all of the holdings that didn't get called. Like jersey coming off the player, tackled in open field, jumped on the back of sort of holdings...not the petty little ones that slow a player down a half step. 25 clips!!!! 25!!! Anyone seen any course of action that has had an impact? If you have a local officials' association send the video to them. Or a league supervisor/assignor of officials. Otherwise you probably have no recourse.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Oct 27, 2024 14:06:37 GMT -6
We lost in a close game. Turned the ball over a few too many times. However, our D coaches made a cut up of all of the holdings that didn't get called. Like jersey coming off the player, tackled in open field, jumped on the back of sort of holdings...not the petty little ones that slow a player down a half step. 25 clips!!!! 25!!! Anyone seen any course of action that has had an impact? It's happening all over the state (and probably nation).
Last week we had the same situation- after their second TD where there were 3 blatant holds, I told our guys coming off "Figure it out, if they aren't calling it, then we'd better start holding the s*** out of them too".
Unfortunately, we aren't strong enough right now to hold very well...
By the way, good luck in the playoffs.
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Post by blb on Oct 27, 2024 14:27:56 GMT -6
Teach your DL the "Real Estate move."
If they get held, the first time tell the offender "Don't hold me!"
The second time it happens, punch them in the testicles (two achers) - out of the sight of an official of course.
Then say, "I TOLD you not to hold me!"
Don't leave it up to the officials. If you complain about something they're sure to not call it - except on your team.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Oct 27, 2024 15:00:14 GMT -6
Teach your DL the "Real Estate move." If they get held, the first time tell the offender "Don't hold me!" The second time it happens, punch them in the testicles (two achers) - out of the sight of an official of course. Then say, "I TOLD you not to hold me!" Don't leave it up to the officials. If you complain about something they're sure to not call it - except on your team.
or... if you just want to read the article here (I remember watching this live as a kid):
Broncos Provoked Swinging Steeler Greene, He Says By Dave Brady December 25, 1977 at 7:00 p.m. EST
LOS ANGELES, Dec. 25, 1977 -- Joe Greene's problem today was his high profile as an All-Pro with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
The television cameras just keep showing that right uppercut that might have felled Muhammad Ali. Look for an enterprising boxing promoter to make him an offer, if only for the publicity of the thing.
Greene is insisting that the camera tells the truth, but not the whole truth. He agrees it was a cheap shot he took at Paul Howard, which knocked the Denver guard flat for several minutes in Saturday's 34-21 Bronco playoff victory.
Greene's only hope now is that films of the game will show what provoked him in Mile High Stadium. He even protests he is "a gentleman."
But the present climate in reaction to fisticuffs in pro basketball and Greene's own previous run-ins with the courts, the National Football League commissioner and game officials, not to mention opposing players, weaken his chances of avoiding action by Pete Rozelle.
In Denver, he was subjectively described as giving cheap-shot artistry a bad name. And it was recalled that in a 35-35 tie with the Broncos in 1975, Howard charged Greene with kicking him in the groin so hard that it ripped open his scrotum. There was no penalty because then Denver coach John Ralston withdrew that charge after saying the game films did not show Greene doing such kicking.
Greene suggested on Saturday that he had to take the law into his own hands. "My job is to get to the man with the ball," Greene explained.
"If the man in front of me is impeding me illegally and the officials are not calling it a foul . . . then I have to do something about it.
"Believe me - those punches I threw at Howard and then at center Mike Montler were retaliatory reactions. You can put them in the category of defending one's self. And - believe me - I take more . . . than I dish out. I'm a gentleman."
Howard said that Greene accused him of holding before the Saturday punch. Montler admitted that his fingers inadvertently slipped inside Greene's face guard before Greene punched him and Montler missed with a counterpunch.
It is on the record in the unsuccessful suit by George Atkinson of the Oakland Raiders against Pittsburgh coach Chuck Noll that Noll testified Greene and other Steelers were "part of the criminal element in football" as well as Atkinson and other Raiders.
Greene was named defensive captain of the Steelers after that. But since then, he threatened that he might take physical action against game officials and publicly criticized commissioner Rozelle for his remarks about unnecessary violence.
Cincinnati and Oakland players previously have accused Greene, among others, of bending the rules, and a national magazine made his type of play the subject of an illustrated article.
Greene did sound like a rational gentleman after he analyzed the loss to the Broncos. "They have to be good," he said, "because they beat us twice.
"That's why I think they can beat Oakland. They're young, vibrant and hungry."
Quarterback Terry Bradshaw said, "four years from now this fan reaction and enthusiasm in Denver will die down. We use to have crazy football fans in Pittsburgh, too. They used to call Franco (Harris) the Italian stallion; there was 'Franco's Army' and 'Gerela's Gorillas.' It will settle down here. The fans will get conservative and wear suits."
Bradshaw has not quite turned all philosopher.
Asked to rate the Broncos, he said, "Same old Denver team; no offense. I'm not impressed with their offense. But their defense is super. We had five turnovers (a blocked punt, a fumble and three interceptions, which were turned into 24 points). You just can't do that and win."
The Broncos had the best record in the American Football Conference, 12-2, but they ranked 12th in total offense and last in passing.
The Raiders, whom they will play at home on Sunday for the right to go to the Super Bowl, ranked first in offense, first in rushing and eighth in passing.
The Raiders played defense, too, ranking sixth overall, fifth against the rush and ninth against the pass, but that may be convenient with Denver's lack of emphasis on throwing.
The Raiders led the league in scoring, with 351 points. The Broncos scored 274. The Broncos allowed only 148 points and the Raiders 230.
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Post by planck on Oct 27, 2024 16:01:16 GMT -6
I coach DL. We literally practice tackling while being held, etc. Just assume it's going to happen and not get called, because that's probably the case.
Sorry though, sucks when refs suck.
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Post by coachcp on Oct 27, 2024 20:28:27 GMT -6
I have noticed fewer interior holding calls in the past 2 seasons and I wonder if it is because the umpire is now in the backfield instead of being behind the LB's (at least in our state). I hate watching film and seeing o-lineman with their arms basically wrapped around the d-lineman and get no call.
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Post by echoofthewhistle on Oct 28, 2024 5:29:24 GMT -6
It seems like less are called where I'm at as well. It does seem like they only get called on the edge now.
I'm concerned my perception of it is heightened because it seems like everyone is quick to complain or point it out nowadays, which honestly is my least favorite aspect of this.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 28, 2024 10:27:00 GMT -6
The head of officials in our association is a booster club member for the team we played, he goes golfing in AZ with their staff over the winter.
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Post by mrcoachklein on Oct 29, 2024 6:41:25 GMT -6
As a former offensive line coach and a current linebackers coach - I would MUCH rather have no holding calls than every BS soft holding call.
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choprip
Sophomore Member
Posts: 138
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Post by choprip on Oct 29, 2024 8:33:15 GMT -6
I had to have seen less than 5 holding penalties called all season. Similar to what CoachD mentioned...ref shortage leads to less experienced officials, who then would rather let things go than make questionable calls.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 29, 2024 10:37:02 GMT -6
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Post by echoofthewhistle on Oct 29, 2024 11:03:01 GMT -6
While I personally separate them from conventional holds. I have noticed a lack of care to enforce throws, laying on someone, getting an extra shove, etc.. that happen later in the down and away from the play.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 29, 2024 11:06:40 GMT -6
As a former offensive line coach and a current linebackers coach - I would MUCH rather have no holding calls than every BS soft holding call.
Agreed. I'm not going to get upset if the hands are inside the frame. Because... Our OL will be holding like that all night long. Lol
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Post by coachmonkey on Oct 29, 2024 11:14:46 GMT -6
We tell our kids, come playoffs, they don't call holding. I tell them I don't want to hear you are being held. I film every single play on an iPad throughout the game. One thing this has taught me, is that over 90% of calls officials make are actually good calls and the correct call. It might even be over 95%. Thats pretty darned good IMO. Good officials let the players sort it out on the field, and good officials end up officiating playoff games.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 29, 2024 12:14:39 GMT -6
A majority of the holds I am upset about resemble the one pictured, hands on the back and firm grasp of the jersey around the collar.
The kid in this picture tore his ACL.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 29, 2024 12:20:28 GMT -6
I have a pretty relationship with many of the officials that work out games, and basically they've told me - it has to directly impact the play - the defender has to demonstrate he is trying to escape
We my guys whine about being held I just say, "He better be trying to hold b/c if he isn't he isn't coached well"
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Post by brettdj on Oct 29, 2024 12:34:40 GMT -6
From my post in NFHS Rules
Holding requirements- Grab, restriction, and at the point of attack(near ball/effect the play)
Typically high school officials call way too much holding and other fouls. I have had 4 NCAA games, 10 high school games(JV and V). I have had 1 holding call and no missed calls from the film. In high school film review, we have called more holds that can't be found on video than the other way.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 29, 2024 12:37:42 GMT -6
That part about directly impacts the play leaves way to much to the officials judgement. There has to be some level of safety of the players.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 29, 2024 17:06:44 GMT -6
That part about directly impacts the play leaves way to much to the officials judgement. There has to be some level of safety of the players. They aren't going to call holding 10 yards behind the play, defender isn't attempting to be part of the play, it doesn't impede the defender, etc.... We're fortunate we have pretty good crews and again I/we have fostered relationships with officials. Of course we play in the biggest/toughest region so we tend to get pretty good crews. On gripe I have with SC is that we don't have officiating 'crews''. Sometimes you have random officials working together; that doesn't make for good teamwork. Safety should be first and foremost.
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Post by realdawg on Oct 30, 2024 3:22:31 GMT -6
They are too busy worrying about knee pads, eye black, undershirts tucked in, and the get back line to ever have time to look for holding.
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Post by planck on Oct 30, 2024 6:08:46 GMT -6
They are too busy worrying about knee pads, eye black, undershirts tucked in, and the get back line to ever have time to look for holding. I chuckled. We've had more official action on knee pads than holding for several years now. Maybe we need a "point of emphasis" on meaningful penalties instead...
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