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Post by tothehouse on Jan 21, 2008 23:32:06 GMT -6
Were most coaches successful when they played sports in high school? I asked a question on my board, reelsportreplay.proboards51.com/index.cgi, regarding past championships won and it got me thinking. I am guessing that a majority of high school coaches were successful when they played in high school (any sport). And I would think this goes for their teams. I bet the teams they played on were good as well. Thoughts on that highly researched (not) analysis?
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 22, 2008 0:17:45 GMT -6
my school was pretty bad in football and baseball (the two sports i played)
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Post by briangilbert on Jan 22, 2008 4:38:53 GMT -6
Football Team was 8-2 Baseball team lost in the District Title game 12-2 to our Rival who we beat the game before... OUCH
Maybe their is a connection, but I'm sure people that have had no success in football would be less likely to get involved in it. The mouse seems to find the cheese on that notion.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 22, 2008 8:36:50 GMT -6
not sure how that relates.
if it does ... then maybe it is true that college/nfl football players make the best coaches ...
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Post by coachmoore42 on Jan 22, 2008 8:44:49 GMT -6
My high school football regular season records were 5-5, 5-5, 8-2, 4-6. We made the playoffs those first three years, with the 8-2 mark the best in the school's history (still is, but should be matched or broken this year).
That 8-2 mark is the only winning season I experienced as a player. We were never terrible, usually .500 or just below, but still not that good. I think my "coming close to success" has driven me as a coach.
The only other sport I participated in during HS was Track. I wasn't an athletic specimen by any means, but I was technically sound. I didn't win any events, but I never finished in last either.
I think my drive to win a championship comes from the fact that I have never won one in anything. So in my case, my lack of the ultimate success actually makes me a better coach than I otherwise would have been.
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Post by tothehouse on Jan 22, 2008 9:22:33 GMT -6
Remember.....I said, "Good" Huey...not great.
I think John Madden said something like, "the best coaches are guys who got "C's" in high school or college".
A player might have been great, but his team might have been average.
I considered the teams I played on in high school to be great where I was probably above average for where I was. I (we) was fortunate to win 2 league titles in football, 3 league titles and a section title in baseball.
Looking back I know it was a team effort and that really helped in the way I coached.....seeing how a bunch of average guys made a team great.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 22, 2008 9:31:04 GMT -6
are you a better coach now than you were in your first year?
was that because you played on good teams when you were 17 or because you worked with good coaches the past few years and learned from them?
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Post by tothehouse on Jan 22, 2008 9:59:21 GMT -6
All I am trying to say, or ask, is......were coaches out there successful at athletics when they played?
I'm not saying it has anything to do with their current standing as a coach. But it might have been the reason they got into coaching....because they had success while playing.
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Post by cmow5 on Jan 22, 2008 10:06:22 GMT -6
I know I am rare one, but I never played football past the 7th grade and then I was bad. I played Basketball up to 9th grade and I was one of the best in the school until it came to game time and then I had no confidence for some reason and I come off the bench. Actually, I was one of the better athletes in school until game time and I was intimidated for some reason.
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Post by brophy on Jan 22, 2008 10:11:26 GMT -6
what is the commonality in guys entering into coaching?
Is there a percentage of coaches that played and won, played and lost, never played that are now coaching?
In my career, made the post-season 3 times and won 2 championships (in college). None of those (at least for me) had any influence on me coaching. What influenced me to get into coaching was the experiences (win or lose) in practice and games throughout the season with guys from all over the country that became my brothers. That, and experiencing some enthusiastic coaches who were able to teach technique.
Are players more likely to enter the coaching profession after experiencing significant wins?
Are players LESS likely to enter the coaching profession after experiencing significant losses?
What makes people who have never played the game decided to enter the profession?
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Post by phantom on Jan 22, 2008 10:26:18 GMT -6
Were most coaches successful when they played sports in high school? I asked a question on my board, reelsportreplay.proboards51.com/index.cgi, regarding past championships won and it got me thinking. I am guessing that a majority of high school coaches were successful when they played in high school (any sport). And I would think this goes for their teams. I bet the teams they played on were good as well. Thoughts on that highly researched (not) analysis? Depends on how you define success. Personally, I was mediocre at best and was not a starter in HS. The teams that I were on were good, winning three championships in my four years.
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Post by tothehouse on Jan 22, 2008 10:38:06 GMT -6
Phantom...that is the John Madden theory
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Post by lsrood on Jan 22, 2008 11:28:16 GMT -6
I was an All Conference Center in football my senior year in HS on a 7-1-1 team that made the playoffs but was one & done. Prior to that we had won 2 and 5 games my Jr. & Soph. years.
Conversely, as an assistant football coach I was a part of 11 conference championships, 1 district championship, 2 district runner-ups, 1 state semi-finalist and 13 trips to the playoffs in 23 years. I wasn't a great player in HS, but once I became a coach, I had the opportunity to work under some very good head coaches and with some outstanding assistants.
As a head coach, our team has made the playoffs my first two years finishing 2nd in our conference each year.
I can draw on my experiences as a player, but I find I am more inclined to draw on my coaching experiences as anything.
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Post by tothehouse on Jan 22, 2008 11:39:22 GMT -6
All of you are saying what I originally suggested (for the most part). I am not saying one became a good/great coach because they were successful as a player in high school.
All I'm saying is that ONE BECAME A COACH because they were good/great in HS or the team they played on was good/great.
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Post by thunder17 on Jan 22, 2008 11:58:48 GMT -6
I can draw on my experiences as a player, but I find I am more inclined to draw on my coaching experiences as anything. Link
Isrood, I agree with you. I draw on my coaching experiences tons more than my playing experiences, and that may just be because my playing experience was more than a few years ago. Someone just coming out of college would lean on their playing experience until they have few years coaching under their belts. As far as what the kids think about what kind of player you were in high school I think they could give a rats !@#. Seems like when our kids ask us about our playing days we tell them and no matter what the answer is they usually say "Cool" and walk away. As long as they think you know what your talking about they could care less about the past. Not sure about the great individual or great team theory. I do know that coaches are driven by competition, so I would say it is more of a personality trait than anything else. If you grew up playing sports and competing that is hard to give up and if your not good enough to earn a living doing it you turn to the next best thing. That's what we do.
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Post by k on Jan 22, 2008 14:30:35 GMT -6
My team senior year was as good as any team my HS ever had. We were dominant on both sides of the ball and made the state championship game before losing. Of the 15 or so starters from that year about half of them are coaching including myself. I think there is a direct link between doing well (as both as a player and as a team) and someone deciding they want to dedicate the amount of time that we dedicate to doing it all over again. If I wasn't a good player on a good team I'm not sure I'd be coaching now.
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Post by fbdoc on Jan 22, 2008 16:05:54 GMT -6
If you just want raw numbers, my HS football teams were 2-27-1 my 3 years. As a high school head coach my record is 90-54. I don't know if that supports your hypothesis. The only thing I can draw from my playing experience is what a great job our coaches did of motivating us from week to week. We always felt we were going to be in the game - that we had a chance for success.
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Post by justwingit on Jan 22, 2008 16:29:24 GMT -6
grew up in an environment where football was king - Old Coach there had a record of something like 112-19. Both brothers played for this legend - middle brother was undefeated-unscored upon.. My senior year we finished 6-3 which was just OK for the school.
Basketball only won four games - track team was OK but in Illinois there was only a one class system so little chance to advance.
OK as an athlete, started - though not the team's superstar
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Post by dubber on Jan 22, 2008 16:34:07 GMT -6
I would say that successful players have an easier time getting into coaching (for better or worse),
1. The connections they made while they were the "star"
2. Those in hiring positions usually think "he won as a player, he'll win as a coach" (again, faulty logic)
I would say any coach that gets into coaching after playing because he was a good player is in for some major ego adjustments. Everyone's got a little ego (some more than others), but if you thinking calling the passing plays to score 30 TD's is the same as throwing 30 TD's, you are in for a rude awakening and you are selling your players short.....treating them as means instead of ends.
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Post by carookie on Jan 22, 2008 17:30:51 GMT -6
Personally I was at best a mediocre athlete when I last played (which was HS), although I was generally regarded as the hardest worker, and most knowledgeable about the sport on my team. But my physcial ability (too slow to be a skill player, too small to be a lineman) led to me being only a part time starter (hell I'm probably a better athlete now, other than a few knee surgeries).
That being said the program I played for was a very good one. My freshman year was the school's first in existence, by my senior year we took league. In the 10 years since they've won league 7x been to 4 CIF finals and won 2 of them.
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Post by tothehouse on Jan 22, 2008 18:03:26 GMT -6
This is NOT a coach quality issue. It is a COACH issue. Just a simple, did you become a coach because you were successful as a player in HS. Not, are you a good coach because you played. Two different questions. Were most coaches successful when they played sports in high school? I asked a question on my board, reelsportreplay.proboards51.com/index.cgi, regarding past championships won and it got me thinking. I am guessing that a majority of high school coaches were successful when they played in high school (any sport). And I would think this goes for their teams. I bet the teams they played on were good as well. Thoughts on that highly researched (not) analysis?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2008 18:03:40 GMT -6
My high school never had football until my junior year--went 0-9 that year and 3-6 as a senior. I didn't receive any individual awards, but I did start all 18 of those games at center. I did play all four years of college ball, but never cracked the starting lineup. We went 0-10, 2-8, 6-4, and 6-4 those four years. So, I don't really know what drove me to coaching, but it wasn't success as a player
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Post by phantom on Jan 22, 2008 18:52:14 GMT -6
This is NOT a coach quality issue. It is a COACH issue. Just a simple, did you become a coach because you were successful as a player in HS. Not, are you a good coach because you played. Two different questions. Were most coaches successful when they played sports in high school? I asked a question on my board, reelsportreplay.proboards51.com/index.cgi, regarding past championships won and it got me thinking. I am guessing that a majority of high school coaches were successful when they played in high school (any sport). And I would think this goes for their teams. I bet the teams they played on were good as well. Thoughts on that highly researched (not) analysis? I probably became a coach because of my personal lack of success as a player. I love the game but couldn't play it worth a damn because of a lack of athletic ability.
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Post by fbdoc on Jan 23, 2008 8:02:24 GMT -6
I was an average player in HS and then grew into being a pretty good player in college. I beleive I became a coach because of my desire to play the game as much as the positive experiences I had with my coaches. Besides, teaching and coaching beats working for a living!
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Post by biggroff on Jan 27, 2008 11:50:30 GMT -6
Remember.....I said, "Good" Huey...not great. I think John Madden said something like, "the best coaches are guys who got "C's" in high school or college". A player might have been great, but his team might have been average. I considered the teams I played on in high school to be great where I was probably above average for where I was. I (we) was fortunate to win 2 league titles in football, 3 league titles and a section title in baseball. Looking back I know it was a team effort and that really helped in the way I coached.....seeing how a bunch of average guys made a team great. I agree wih the spirit of this statment. I was an above average football player in high school and an average division III athlete in college. I started in college my last two years because of hard work since I was not very gifted. In high school we were 9-4 and 11-2 (State semi finalistis wach year) and won 7 or more games each year in college. I was around winning a lot and was blessed to have great coaches. The combination of being a very average athlete and being a part of really good football programs has allowed me to develop a very deep sense of competition while also knowing the humility of hard work. Both of these are what drives me to coach. I feel I know what the average kid has to go through to be a good football player in terms of technique and off season work but also had the benefit of great team success. I have seen very coaches who were very gifted at the game have a hard time relating to the average kids who have to become better to have a successful program. This is not to say all coaches who were great players can't be coaches but I have seen this trend more often than not. You win by making average players good, good payers great, and great players tremendous players. I think it is a great help to have had to experience what it is like to be one of the average players who had to work just to be a decent player.
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