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Post by hlb2 on Sept 20, 2024 7:23:03 GMT -6
I'd like to run everyone through a scenario here and see your responses. Currently we have a QB battle that was just won by an upperclassman transfer (transferred to us over the summer) over an incumbent sophomore (soph played backup QB last year on varsity). We are halfway through the season and the competition and split reps came to an end two weeks ago and it has been the junior's job since. Well you know how this goes, soph dad now is claiming all sorts of mistreatment b/c his son is riding the bench and thinks he "deserves" to play because he's worked hard (both kids have). He corners our AD last night at a freshman game and gives her the business. Well, she now wants a meeting despite KNOWING there's no mistreatment going on. I love the other sex, and maybe I'm chauvenist, but female leaders always want to "meet and discuss" when their isn't anything to meet and discuss about. How would your AD handle this? I'm curious. Now, I've never been, want to be, or will be an AD, but I'm just wondering what the best approach is to this situation for an athletic director.
Thanks,
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Post by veerwego on Sept 20, 2024 7:35:45 GMT -6
We now live in a world where almost everyone is afraid to say no. I worked my tail off on proposing a new course for our school, district, and state. District lady handled it quite poorly, in my opinion. Had me revamp it twice, which I did to the specifications I was given. They rejected it this week.
My principal, a lady, came to check on me and empathize I guess. I told her that was nice and I appreciate it. I think it could have been handled better and I don't know why the lady would not call me or meet with me to help me do whatever it was she wanted. However, we are adults and sometimes you get told no. That is ok and we move on. It happens and it is not a big deal.
I don't know why everyone wants to meet all the time and let people have their say. How about NO! I have been in a meeting with parents where when they started talking poorly to me, I said I am not gonna be talked to like this and got up and walked out. It seems to me the AD should say, the coach makes all decisions on playing time and I the AD nor anyone is going to questions that, the END. No need for a meeting, great to see you.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Sept 20, 2024 7:40:27 GMT -6
The culture of our program would never allow a situation like that. The parent would be sent to the HBC. Well--The parent would be asked if the kid went to the HBC first. Then Parent to HBC.
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Post by mrcoachklein on Sept 20, 2024 7:47:03 GMT -6
Just have the meeting with the AD - confirm that you're all on the same side, and discuss how to handle the specific dad and what to do if something similar happens in the future. Nothing wrong with meeting to make sure you're all on the same page and presenting the same opinion to the public
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Post by coachcb on Sept 20, 2024 8:02:56 GMT -6
IMO, this is fairly straight forward administrative CYA. And, it's simply because the parent claimed that there's "mistreatment" involved. They're going to have to show they've dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's in order to prevent nastier problems down the road. I don't imagine the AD would've done much of anything if the parent hadn't used that verbiage.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 20, 2024 8:18:35 GMT -6
Meetings are their way of saying they handled it and not get sued.
Lawsuits, or the idea or threat of it, runs education.
Male administrators a just as big of {censored}. Don't blame females. You just come off as whiny {censored} yourself.
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Post by irishdog on Sept 20, 2024 9:08:35 GMT -6
Parent-Coach communication plan. If your school doesn't have one you should develop one. Eliminates most of this BS. Yes, it involves FORMAL meetings (not sideline, or sub-varsity practices, games, or local watering hole), but it was a process and a procedure. We had parents and athletes sign the PCP prior to the school year acknowledging their support. No signed PCP-No play. As a former AD/HBC IF a parent had an issue they would have to follow the PCP. My first question would be, "did you and your student meet with your student's immediate coach yet?" They were met with the same question by the HC, AD, Principal, and Sup (IF it ever got that far, which it didn't), because the school administration was on the same page with the PCP as they were a part of its approval.
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Post by hlb2 on Sept 22, 2024 6:22:26 GMT -6
Called the meeting and dad didn't show, 1st class guy IMO. As far as the male/female thing, I'm sorry, I've been in this business over 20 years and never had much luck with the opposite sex being in a leadership role. I calls them as I sees them.
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Post by CS on Sept 22, 2024 7:18:58 GMT -6
Called the meeting and dad didn't show, 1st class guy IMO. As far as the male/female thing, I'm sorry, I've been in this business over 20 years and never had much luck with the opposite sex being in a leadership role. I calls them as I sees them. 😂 for the most part I agree with you but I don’t think it’s necessarily a female/male thing. The nature of how promotions happen in education is the dumbest business model on the planet. I work with several people male and female that would make great admin IMO but they either don’t want to deal with going back to get the degree or can’t afford it. My last 2 principals were both male and former band directors and were terrible. Zero discipline, blanket emails because they were afraid of conflict etc. I think more females are willing to jump through the hoops to be admin than males due to the fact most males in education are there because of sports. I’m seeing fewer ex coaches getting into admin than when I started and someone has to fill that void. |
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Post by 44special on Sept 22, 2024 7:31:26 GMT -6
jmo-
95% of admins turn in their balls and spine when they take the job.
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Post by MICoach on Sept 23, 2024 7:42:25 GMT -6
You can call them as you sees them but this has nothing to do with your AD being a woman.
I've worked for male and female AD's that have cowered to a parent, and others that have stood their ground and supported the coach. My own current AD is usually a pretty firm supporter of coaches and he bent over backwards for a noteworthy player's dad not too long ago...I was put off by that.
Regardless, I'd take the meeting and come prepared. Maybe I'm a psycho but I enjoy the opportunity to prove a parent wrong.
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Post by hlb2 on Sept 23, 2024 8:09:16 GMT -6
You can call them as you sees them but this has nothing to do with your AD being a woman. I've worked for male and female AD's that have cowered to a parent, and others that have stood their ground and supported the coach. My own current AD is usually a pretty firm supporter of coaches and he bent over backwards for a noteworthy player's dad not too long ago...I was put off by that. Regardless, I'd take the meeting and come prepared. Maybe I'm a psycho but I enjoy the opportunity to prove a parent wrong. I'll agree to disagree on the male/female thing. I will die on that hill. |
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Post by 44special on Sept 23, 2024 8:10:28 GMT -6
i've never worked for a female ad.
the ad where i worked was ALWAYS the head fb coach.
i'm guessing this happens in places where there's more than one hs in the district?
jmo (i have a lot of them)-
having an ad who is not or hasn't been a coach and who is just an administrator would be a huge mistake.
i don't know if this happens, but it sounds as if that might be the case.
most normal people have no clue what goes on and what is required in hs athletics.
i have had male and female principals, good and bad of both, but mostly bad.
turn into bowls of jelly with parents, but plenty willing to assert their authority over employees under them when they disagree.
mostly behind their back, of course. not face to face.
i didn't have many meetings, which is good, because i'm not a diplomat. i have a tendency to say what i think.
i've discovered this is not always popular.
who knew?
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Post by 44special on Sept 23, 2024 8:13:10 GMT -6
ps -
i've had 2 good principals.
in 34 years. (plus one good vice principal).
one male, one female.
they both got fired.
had one good superintendent. male.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 24, 2024 8:40:44 GMT -6
Parent-Coach communication plan. If your school doesn't have one you should develop one. Eliminates most of this BS. Yes, it involves FORMAL meetings (not sideline, or sub-varsity practices, games, or local watering hole), but it was a process and a procedure. We had parents and athletes sign the PCP prior to the school year acknowledging their support. No signed PCP-No play. As a former AD/HBC IF a parent had an issue they would have to follow the PCP. My first question would be, "did you and your student meet with your student's immediate coach yet?" They were met with the same question by the HC, AD, Principal, and Sup (IF it ever got that far, which it didn't), because the school administration was on the same page with the PCP as they were a part of its approval.
I'm a former AD and we had something similar, we just called it the Communication Protocol. However, any claims of abuse, mistreatment (etc) negated it and we had to go into CYA mode, for everyone's sake. But, I handled it in a way that protected the coach and the best way to do that was to hit the DEFCON 1 button. We'd have a meeting with the parents, coach and building administration. The parent either needed to back off or file a formal complaint, which would force them to provide evidence of misconduct by the coach. I ran the meeting and the gist of it was "Alright, you've made a pretty substantial accusation here and now you have to back it up." Those meetings were rare and none of them went badly for the coaches.
Unfortunately, this was a necessary evil for everyone involved. And, these meetings also prevented a lot of other b.s. from popping up. The parents realized that they couldn't just toss out random accusations and expect things to go their way.
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Post by CS on Sept 24, 2024 9:02:32 GMT -6
Parent-Coach communication plan. If your school doesn't have one you should develop one. Eliminates most of this BS. Yes, it involves FORMAL meetings (not sideline, or sub-varsity practices, games, or local watering hole), but it was a process and a procedure. We had parents and athletes sign the PCP prior to the school year acknowledging their support. No signed PCP-No play. As a former AD/HBC IF a parent had an issue they would have to follow the PCP. My first question would be, "did you and your student meet with your student's immediate coach yet?" They were met with the same question by the HC, AD, Principal, and Sup (IF it ever got that far, which it didn't), because the school administration was on the same page with the PCP as they were a part of its approval.
I'm a former AD and we had something similar, we just called it the Communication Protocol. However, any claims of abuse, mistreatment (etc) negated it and we had to go into CYA mode, for everyone's sake. But, I handled it in a way that protected the coach and the best way to do that was to hit the DEFCON 1 button. We'd have a meeting with the parents, coach and building administration. The parent either needed to back off or file a formal complaint, which would force them to provide evidence of misconduct by the coach. I ran the meeting and the gist of it was "Alright, you've made a pretty substantial accusation here and now you have to back it up." Those meetings were rare and none of them went badly for the coaches.
Unfortunately, this was a necessary evil for everyone involved. And, these meetings also prevented a lot of other b.s. from popping up. The parents realized that they couldn't just toss out random accusations and expect things to go their way.
Yeah this right here is the way to handle it. What annoys me is that the parents can make these claims with no evidence and nothing happens to them. I've had a parent meeting like this and it all boiled down to I had to cut their kid. I had a good AD though and he wanted them to provide evidence so they backed off. What people don't realize is that some of these things could realistically get a teachers license revoked and thus their means to provide for their families. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 24, 2024 9:46:10 GMT -6
I'm a former AD and we had something similar, we just called it the Communication Protocol. However, any claims of abuse, mistreatment (etc) negated it and we had to go into CYA mode, for everyone's sake. But, I handled it in a way that protected the coach and the best way to do that was to hit the DEFCON 1 button. We'd have a meeting with the parents, coach and building administration. The parent either needed to back off or file a formal complaint, which would force them to provide evidence of misconduct by the coach. I ran the meeting and the gist of it was "Alright, you've made a pretty substantial accusation here and now you have to back it up." Those meetings were rare and none of them went badly for the coaches.
Unfortunately, this was a necessary evil for everyone involved. And, these meetings also prevented a lot of other b.s. from popping up. The parents realized that they couldn't just toss out random accusations and expect things to go their way.
Yeah this right here is the way to handle it. What annoys me is that the parents can make these claims with no evidence and nothing happens to them. I've had a parent meeting like this and it all boiled down to I had to cut there kid. I had a good AD though and he wanted them to provide evidence so they backed off. What people don't realize is that some of these things could realistically get a teachers license revoked and thus their means to provide for their families.
Yeah, I agree, folks don't get it.
We had some parents come after a junior high volleyball, pretty hard. The coach kicked a kid off of the team because she wasn't showing up to practice. It was cut and dry; the kid was ditching practice to run around town with her buddies. The coach communicated well with the parents, she got her due process and was removed from the team. The family was Native and mom and dad claimed the coach and I were bigots and discriminating against their kid. They got loud about it at a game and also over social media.
We had a meeting with them, the administration and the district attorney. The parents were knocked down in a hurry and mom had to deal with a public defamation charges from myself and the coach. It was pretty ridiculous.
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moose18
Junior Member
"If it didn't matter who won or lost, they wouldn't keep score"
Posts: 286
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Post by moose18 on Sept 24, 2024 9:50:45 GMT -6
Sounds to me like your AD works for the parents and not for the coaches. Bad leadership in my opinion
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Post by coachmoore42 on Sept 24, 2024 10:47:39 GMT -6
I was forced to have a farce meeting over a parent who was clearly in the wrong, but I had to meet with the Principal and A.D. so they could say that "I was talked to about it". I had already had multiple issues with that year's parent group over similarly crazy things and this was the last straw. I basically told administration I refused to agree to the "talked to about it" thing and that they could find another coach to deal with these parents.
That was a male principal, by the way. The A.D. was a female, but the Principal was running the show. My bio has the timeline, but that year was the one that drove me to the time away from coaching football.
Side note: My return to HBC was under a female principal who just got moved up to a HS position. She was great. Didn't put up with that parent mess.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 24, 2024 11:54:02 GMT -6
Sounds to me like your AD works for the parents and not for the coaches. Bad leadership in my opinion I mean, ultimately the parents are their bosses. A hell of a lot more than the coaches at least. You're not paying their salary. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 24, 2024 12:55:21 GMT -6
I'd tell any coach to resign if the administration were forcing them to meet with parents over playing time, position, access to practice and any other random b.s. that some parents will throw out there. In my tenure as an AD, I shut down every parent that complained to me about those kinds of issues.
In fact, there were a few situations where the parents were right but I never openly acknowledged it. I stuck by the coach in public and then had a chat with them behind closed doors. A basketball coach started a girl who missed four and a half practices in week to do school work in the library. She couldn't be bothered to do anything during school (she was in my class...) and the coach let her use practice as an excuse to catch up. People were p-ssed but I toed the "It's their program and their call" line in public. Behind closed doors, it was a different story.
The calculus changes if an accusation is made. You can't just write it off as "that's bullchit, go away." That's opening the door for the people involved to cause more serious problems.
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Post by irishdog on Sept 25, 2024 20:14:12 GMT -6
I'd tell any coach to resign if the administration were forcing them to meet with parents over playing time, position, access to practice and any other random b.s. that some parents will throw out there. In my tenure as an AD, I shut down every parent that complained to me about those kinds of issues. In fact, there were a few situations where the parents were right but I never openly acknowledged it. I stuck by the coach in public and then had a chat with them behind closed doors. A basketball coach started a girl who missed four and a half practices in week to do school work in the library. She couldn't be bothered to do anything during school (she was in my class...) and the coach let her use practice as an excuse to catch up. People were p-ssed but I toed the "It's their program and their call" line in public. Behind closed doors, it was a different story. The calculus changes if an accusation is made. You can't just write it off as "that's bullchit, go away." That's opening the door for the people involved to cause more serious problems. Part of of our PCP included the following: Issues not to be discussed with the coach: Other athletes on the team. Other athletes' playing time. Play calling. Issues that should be discussed with the coach: Your athlete's well being. Football Code of Conduct. What can my athlete do to improve his role on the team? Most parents followed this, but...there is always an exception. The exception typically didn't get very far. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 26, 2024 7:52:46 GMT -6
I'd tell any coach to resign if the administration were forcing them to meet with parents over playing time, position, access to practice and any other random b.s. that some parents will throw out there. In my tenure as an AD, I shut down every parent that complained to me about those kinds of issues. In fact, there were a few situations where the parents were right but I never openly acknowledged it. I stuck by the coach in public and then had a chat with them behind closed doors. A basketball coach started a girl who missed four and a half practices in week to do school work in the library. She couldn't be bothered to do anything during school (she was in my class...) and the coach let her use practice as an excuse to catch up. People were p-ssed but I toed the "It's their program and their call" line in public. Behind closed doors, it was a different story. The calculus changes if an accusation is made. You can't just write it off as "that's bullchit, go away." That's opening the door for the people involved to cause more serious problems. Part of of our PCP included the following: Issues not to be discussed with the coach: Other athletes on the team. Other athletes' playing time. Play calling. Issues that should be discussed with the coach: Your athlete's well being. Football Code of Conduct. What can my athlete do to improve his role on the team? Most parents followed this, but...there is always an exception. The exception typically didn't get very far.
That is what ours had laid out. And, most of our parents were good about following it and the hierarchy of communication. The exceptions that caused a problem knew what verbiage to use.
We had an assistant girls basketball coach who raised his voice consistently. Not the most effective coaching tool (IMO) but he was never out of line. Some parents complained to me about it, I told them they needed to address it with the coach and it ended there. However, one mother didn't like that and called a school board member (small community and school). She claimed he was "abusive" and now myself and the administration had to deal with it. Again, a little change in phrasing and now it's a PITA.
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