|
|
Post by hsrose on Sept 14, 2024 20:14:51 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by 44special on Sept 14, 2024 20:30:16 GMT -6
to my knowledge, people get paid in 2 ways.
either they're paid hourly, or they're on a salary.
not sure how minimum wage would factor into a salaried situation?
i suspect it's just a way to reduce coaching pay.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Sept 15, 2024 10:56:25 GMT -6
i suspect it's just a way to reduce coaching pay. I think it is more a protection from more lawsuits like were described in the article. I think many here would agree that if you divide the coaching stipend by the hours put in, the resulting compensation may very well fall below federal minimum wage. |
|
|
|
Post by 44special on Sept 15, 2024 19:12:28 GMT -6
sure. to my knowledge, it always has. at least where i've been.
but i didn't think salaried positions were subject to federal hourly minimum wage.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Sept 15, 2024 20:15:45 GMT -6
sure. to my knowledge, it always has. at least where i've been. but i didn't think salaried positions were subject to federal hourly minimum wage. That is probably the origin of the lawsuit. Coaching Stipend vs "Salaried" teaching position. As an aside, simply being a "salaried" worker (meaning you don't punch a time clock) is not sufficient to render a worker exempt from receiving overtime. There are several other factors. Teachers however, are deemed "exempt" - which is why I said the lawsuit (or potential lawsuits) is/are likely a stipend and job description issue that the district doesn't want to deal with. |
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Sept 15, 2024 21:02:18 GMT -6
Lets be honest, with coaching, along with teaching and a number of other jobs, much of the work takes place outside of work. You know hos many hours I logged of HUDL this weekend, probably the same with most of you.
Here's the other part, I do that as a choice. Same with spending hours trying to craft the perfect lesson plan, or the businessman who spends hours reviewing his work at home, etc. We could all easily do a mediocre job and have lots of extra time, but sometimes to do the best we can takes extra time off the clock.
If there is a job to do, then it needs to get done- regardless of how much time it takes. And this isn't the same as some Gilded Era industrialist forcing factory workers into 16 hour days, so regulation shouldnt come into play. This is us choosing to work extra off the clock because we take pride in our work and want to succeed.
|
|
|
|
Post by CS on Sept 16, 2024 3:59:16 GMT -6
Lets be honest, with coaching, along with teaching and a number of other jobs, much of the work takes place outside of work. You know hos many hours I logged of HUDL this weekend, probably the same with most of you. Here's the other part, I do that as a choice. Same with spending hours trying to craft the perfect lesson plan, or the businessman who spends hours reviewing his work at home, etc. We could all easily do a mediocre job and have lots of extra time, but sometimes to do the best we can takes extra time off the clock. If there is a job to do, then it needs to get done- regardless of how much time it takes. And this isn't the same as some Gilded Era industrialist forcing factory workers into 16 hour days, so regulation shouldnt come into play. This is us choosing to work extra off the clock because we take pride in our work and want to succeed. Not necessarily. I just ran our numbers not counting any time when school is in session and if 200 is the cutoff then I wouldn’t be able to finish the season. Schools take advantage of everyone though. They just have to drop the “it’s for the kids” line and guilt people into doing stuff. The lady who does our yearbook gets a $500 stipend. That’s terrible I also forgot to mention I didn’t include any time that I worked on my own. It was simply hours I’m required to be at the school past contracted time |
|
|
|
Post by 44special on Sept 16, 2024 8:15:42 GMT -6
Lets be honest, with coaching, along with teaching and a number of other jobs, much of the work takes place outside of work. You know hos many hours I logged of HUDL this weekend, probably the same with most of you. Here's the other part, I do that as a choice. Same with spending hours trying to craft the perfect lesson plan, or the businessman who spends hours reviewing his work at home, etc. We could all easily do a mediocre job and have lots of extra time, but sometimes to do the best we can takes extra time off the clock. If there is a job to do, then it needs to get done- regardless of how much time it takes. And this isn't the same as some Gilded Era industrialist forcing factory workers into 16 hour days, so regulation shouldnt come into play. This is us choosing to work extra off the clock because we take pride in our work and want to succeed. Not necessarily. I just ran our numbers not counting any time when school is in session and if 200 is the cutoff then I wouldn’t be able to finish the season. Schools take advantage of everyone though. They just have to drop the “it’s for the kids” line and guilt people into doing stuff. The lady who does our yearbook gets a $500 stipend. That’s terrible I also forgot to mention I didn’t include any time that I worked on my own. It was simply hours I’m required to be at the school past contracted time true. i've never been at a school that wasn't more than happy to work everyone into an early grave. one of the reasons i finally got out. the oilfield isn't a whole lot different, but the compensation/benefits, etc....... make it much more worth it. what i have today is mostly due to the 10 years i spent in the oil field, not the 34 years in coaching. |
|
|
|
Post by CS on Sept 16, 2024 8:29:15 GMT -6
Not necessarily. I just ran our numbers not counting any time when school is in session and if 200 is the cutoff then I wouldn’t be able to finish the season. Schools take advantage of everyone though. They just have to drop the “it’s for the kids” line and guilt people into doing stuff. The lady who does our yearbook gets a $500 stipend. That’s terrible I also forgot to mention I didn’t include any time that I worked on my own. It was simply hours I’m required to be at the school past contracted time true. i've never been at a school that wasn't more than happy to work everyone into an early grave. one of the reasons i finally got out. the oilfield isn't a whole lot different, but the compensation/benefits, etc....... make it much more worth it. what i have today is mostly due to the 10 years i spent in the oil field, not the 34 years in coaching. It's that little line in the contract that states, "any and all other duties assigned." That right there is the motherfuker |
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 18, 2024 21:38:21 GMT -6
Submit your first 200 hours... work for free after that... no different than anyone else. So you are basically a stipend position that is capped at a certain amount.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsrose on Sept 18, 2024 21:50:15 GMT -6
Submit your first 200 hours... work for free after that... no different than anyone else. So you are basically a stipend position that is capped at a certain amount. Their deal is that if/when you hit 200 you are removed. Middle of the season, before playoffs, last game/senior night, you hit 200 and you are gone. |
|
|
|
Post by blb on Sept 19, 2024 11:01:16 GMT -6
Submit your first 200 hours... work for free after that... no different than anyone else. So you are basically a stipend position that is capped at a certain amount. Their deal is that if/when you hit 200 you are removed. Middle of the season, before playoffs, last game/senior night, you hit 200 and you are gone. I wonder how they will deal with number of hours coaches spend in the Off-Season (summer). My gut reaction is I would go until I hit 200 hours, then say, "Okay, Mr. Superintendent - YOU coach them from now on or cancel-forfeit the season!" See how THAT goes over. |
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Sept 19, 2024 14:12:00 GMT -6
Submit your first 200 hours... work for free after that... no different than anyone else. So you are basically a stipend position that is capped at a certain amount. Their deal is that if/when you hit 200 you are removed. Middle of the season, before playoffs, last game/senior night, you hit 200 and you are gone. Then submit 0s... until the last one. Submit 200. Sounds like they are incentivizing you to just lie. Somebody must have sued and the district to comply has to word everything so that 200 hours x hourly rate = stipend, but it looks like an hourly instead of salary, even though there is a cap. We all know they don't pay us enough and we spend more time with student-athletes than all their other teachers (and unfortunately their parents too) and it isn't even close. I've done the math, and if every student I had just brought me $2 per time they came to my class, my salary would almost triple. We pretend like education matters in this country, but we don't actually think it's important, so that is why we have the situation we have. Teachers either quit trying to do it right and just do the minimum to get parents/admin off their back or they quit. Should have seen my line at PTC last night... "why do you make my child take a test on how to not die in the chemistry lab? That's unfair. He shouldn't have to memorize how to not die" .....Me = Sorry, your kid not dying is important to me so he has to learn it, or he gets an F on the lab-safety test "30 minutes of homework during the week is too much. It's not fair" .....Me = Your kid is on drill team... they practice 5 hours a day 5 days a week year-round to participate in 3 competitions in the spring. I bet they are a hell of a dancer, but they are gonna suck at chemistry. The list goes on and on... and even though it is presented as the opposite of what I'm talking about, I always think of the scene from The Program where Coach Winters is getting Bobby reinstated... "when was the last time 80,000 showed up watch a kid do a damn chemistry experiment?" www.dropbox.com/s/0df34gne61tj1qi/The%20Program%20-%20Chemistry%20Experiment.mp4?dl=0 |
|
|
|
Post by NC1974 on Oct 10, 2024 7:24:21 GMT -6
Lets be honest, with coaching, along with teaching and a number of other jobs, much of the work takes place outside of work. You know hos many hours I logged of HUDL this weekend, probably the same with most of you. Here's the other part, I do that as a choice. Same with spending hours trying to craft the perfect lesson plan, or the businessman who spends hours reviewing his work at home, etc. We could all easily do a mediocre job and have lots of extra time, but sometimes to do the best we can takes extra time off the clock. If there is a job to do, then it needs to get done- regardless of how much time it takes. And this isn't the same as some Gilded Era industrialist forcing factory workers into 16 hour days, so regulation shouldnt come into play. This is us choosing to work extra off the clock because we take pride in our work and want to succeed. I generally agree with this but I do think there are some situations where employees (coaches) can be taken advantage of. For instance, in my area, it takes teachers 4 years to get tenure. During that period, a teacher can be released for any or no reason at all. What that generally means is that there is an unsaid pressure for non tenured teachers to do anything and everything to make sure that are demonstrating their value. Often that includes coaching multiple sports. HC's understand this dynamic and can (not saying all HCs do) demand quite a bit more from these nontenured teachers knowing that the teachers are going to do anything and everything to remain valued. Now once a lot of these teachers get tenure, they stop coaching. Some view this as manipulative by the teachers--using coaching as a means to get tenure, and then quitting coaching once they have it. But I think some of these coaches quit coaching because they've been (or at least perceive) that they've been taken advantage of for four years and don't feel like continuing. This is clearly not a gilded age situation, but there are definitely situations where HCs, Admin, can abuse their power. There was a post on here a few years ago where an HC demanded that all his ACs spend the entire night at school after a loss (with no prior notice). LOL. One other thought on this: Who decides what needs to get done and how much time that demands? It my experience, the HC makes that decision. Are there HCs that demand unreasonable time commitments? I would say yes. So what if any options do AC's have? They can resign of course, but is that it? Should there be accountability on the HC to make sure he is not demanding unreasonable things from his staff? Once again, I generally agree with your post, I'm just pointing out some areas where there MIGHT be opportunities for abuse of power |
|
|
|
Post by 44special on Oct 10, 2024 8:13:10 GMT -6
?
no tenure in texas. unless you're talking about college, and maybe you are.
but no such thing in hs.
is there tenure in hs?
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Oct 10, 2024 8:18:56 GMT -6
In SC most call it tenure, but isn't really the same as in college.
1st year contingency contract, contingent on jumping through all the hoops of Induction training.
2nd year, annual contract, year to year.
3rd year (if you complete all the dog and pony show stuff) you get a continuing contract.
With the continuing contract, if a district wants to NOT keep you it must show cause and/or provide an action plan for improvement of the defined deficiencies before not offering a contract.
Of course there are other ways to push a teacher out the door....
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Oct 10, 2024 8:20:00 GMT -6
Also I am on an annual contract b/c I retired and got rehired so that I can draw my pension.... double dip
|
|
|
|
Post by NC1974 on Oct 10, 2024 8:28:01 GMT -6
In SC most call it tenure, but isn't really the same as in college. 1st year contingency contract, contingent on jumping through all the hoops of Induction training. 2nd year, annual contract, year to year. 3rd year (if you complete all the dog and pony show stuff) you get a continuing contract. With the continuing contract, if a district wants to NOT keep you it must show cause and/or provide an action plan for improvement of the defined deficiencies before not offering a contract. Of course there are other ways to push a teacher out the door.... This description is similar to what I'm referring to as tenure. In Illinois, it's a 4 year process. |
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2024 9:15:43 GMT -6
I'd like to know how the volleyball coach from Redwood won the lawsuit that set all of this in motion. I don't know anybody who is compensated "fairly" through an extracurricular stipend. But, that's kind of the rub; it's extracurricular. You accept the chitty pay because it's outside of the scope of the teaching contract.
And, 200 hours wouldn't come close to covering the time I spent. We had three away games that totaled nearly 30 hours of travel time the last season I coached.
|
|
|
|
Post by CS on Oct 10, 2024 10:52:28 GMT -6
Lets be honest, with coaching, along with teaching and a number of other jobs, much of the work takes place outside of work. You know hos many hours I logged of HUDL this weekend, probably the same with most of you. Here's the other part, I do that as a choice. Same with spending hours trying to craft the perfect lesson plan, or the businessman who spends hours reviewing his work at home, etc. We could all easily do a mediocre job and have lots of extra time, but sometimes to do the best we can takes extra time off the clock. If there is a job to do, then it needs to get done- regardless of how much time it takes. And this isn't the same as some Gilded Era industrialist forcing factory workers into 16 hour days, so regulation shouldnt come into play. This is us choosing to work extra off the clock because we take pride in our work and want to succeed. I generally agree with this but I do think there are some situations where employees (coaches) can be taken advantage of. For instance, in my area, it takes teachers 4 years to get tenure. During that period, a teacher can be released for any or no reason at all. What that generally means is that there is an unsaid pressure for non tenured teachers to do anything and everything to make sure that are demonstrating their value. Often that includes coaching multiple sports. HC's understand this dynamic and can (not saying all HCs do) demand quite a bit more from these nontenured teachers knowing that the teachers are going to do anything and everything to remain valued. Now once a lot of these teachers get tenure, they stop coaching. Some view this as manipulative by the teachers--using coaching as a means to get tenure, and then quitting coaching once they have it. But I think some of these coaches quit coaching because they've been (or at least perceive) that they've been taken advantage of for four years and don't feel like continuing. This is clearly not a gilded age situation, but there are definitely situations where HCs, Admin, can abuse their power. There was a post on here a few years ago where an HC demanded that all his ACs spend the entire night at school after a loss (with no prior notice). LOL. One other thought on this: Who decides what needs to get done and how much time that demands? It my experience, the HC makes that decision. Are there HCs that demand unreasonable time commitments? I would say yes. So what if any options do AC's have? They can resign of course, but is that it? Should there be accountability on the HC to make sure he is not demanding unreasonable things from his staff? Once again, I generally agree with your post, I'm just pointing out some areas where there MIGHT be opportunities for abuse of power I've gotten to point in my career that if a HC required me to spend the night after a loss I would go home anyway. I have a family and this isn't the most important thing to me anymore. I will see my family and if he doesn't like that then he can A) fire me after the season or B) not be such a doucher |
|
