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Post by tog on Dec 7, 2005 11:50:27 GMT -6
A great coach once told me this as we were looking at some things on the board.
He had drawn up a play that we normally ran, but put someone out wide for personell/angle reasons.
I told him "we can't run that play out there like that, they will know it is coming, that is the only time we will line up like that"
He said "they are high school kids, they won't figure it out"
It WAS a simple and slight adjustment, but I was thinking about this the other day, how much deception do you try and use? And how much do you think it actually works?
By deception I mean, influence blocks, false flow reads, wasting a guy on false flow reads, pump fakes, things like that on offense.
For you defensive guys, how much do you try and disguise your coverages and stunts?
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Post by brophy on Dec 7, 2005 11:57:36 GMT -6
On defense, we TRY to change up looks (not so much assignments) (ie - playing a 2 shell and rolling to 3, prowling Corners, showing blitz, send players where they typically don't go)....
I can't remember who said it, but it makes the most sense.
"We never give up execution for the sake of deception"
I'd say, defensively, 'deception' makes up about 25% of our 'game'.
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 7, 2005 12:23:45 GMT -6
I would say deception is a big part of what I do. I do not do anything with false pulls or influence traps but false backfield action, counter steps, ball fakes, etc. Play action is deception. Formations?? Line up in a "run formation" and throw it, and vice versa. I guess that is deception in a sense. What about changing the cadence? DO you guys consider that deception? I mean the option looks like deception to a defense.
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Post by wildcat on Dec 7, 2005 20:28:29 GMT -6
Our OC and DC excelled at creating confusion and deception this past season... ...anyone who saw us play would tell you that our kids were DEFINATELY confused and deceived!  |
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Post by airman on Dec 7, 2005 20:38:51 GMT -6
OH I am so into deception. Deception is what I am all about. That is why I lineup in 5 wr adn shotgun.
we are all about deception.
just kidding. I actually believe the best deception at the h.s. level is the bootleg. seeing how I do not run a boot of any kid, just my observation.
as for myself, I believe in lining up and say, this is what we do and we are going to come right at you.
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 7, 2005 22:02:52 GMT -6
well...i'm not a big proponent of having 1 thing you do out of a particular formation and that is basically all you do out of it. i try to have 5 things for each formation as a minimum. these 5 be all runs, 3 runs - 2 pass, or any combination.
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Post by los on Dec 7, 2005 22:32:51 GMT -6
Tog, I think influence stuff by the O-line causes a great deal of conflict at the high school level because I think we all try to teach( read o-line 1st/backfield 2nd)and could be designed into a play easily, pump fakes are ok, after you've set up a DB. Like huey said, different formations are deceptive as long as you have a series of plays out of each. In other words simple/subtle deception is good at our level but the mass shifting and motions out of dozens of different formations, like the pro's do is a bit much for high school kids, IMO.
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Post by Coach Huey on Dec 7, 2005 22:40:11 GMT -6
i like shifting & motioning. it has great benefits. however, it is often a double-edge sword. if not careful, you end up "tricking yourself" by shifting INTO a disadvantage and possible confusion for the skill players (what is the coverage now?....where did my primary go?...etc.) all of this can be taught, but it does become a time consideration.
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Post by jackedup on Dec 8, 2005 7:56:39 GMT -6
I would say my deception is not staying in the same front more than 2 plays in a row. I'll give my kids a scouting report of what fronts we will play versus each formation and/or adjustment to each formation. I think this is a type of deception because the offensive lines have to remember how to block the same play for many different fronts.
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Post by brophy on Dec 8, 2005 8:45:47 GMT -6
I forgot to add.....
The REASON why we do what WE do.....is because
1) Our only assest is SPEED. We are the smallest and weakest team in the conference. We rely on capitalizing on the offense's mistakes.
2) To create as much uncertainty about our tendency as possible. Blitzing corners or safeties once or twice a game - dropping linemen in coverage - elaborate front 7 stunts.....not run every down, but run once to keep you honest. WHY? Because the WORST thing as a DC is an offense that can do a multitude of things..."How much can I actually prepare for in a week and still distill it down to 17 year old kids?".
3) Because of #1, we are unable to line up in a base defense and try to beat you mano-a-mano.....we need to find a competitive edge....and again, it's all about numbers - putting more hats executing at the ball than you've got. If I can get one of YOUR hats misfiring, I gain a numbers advantage.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 8, 2005 11:00:06 GMT -6
Offensively we run a lot of misdirection. Occasionally we false pull- but only if I know they are reading guards hard and we usually only do it to get them to stop following guards so hard. A few years ago, we faked a Counter Trap, pulled the Guard across the formation, and had the QB keep. We ran this play 9 times in a game (before and since 2 times was the most we ever did this in a game)- and the LB always followed the guard. We lost 24-25… but played that same team in the first round playoff game the next week (I hate playing the same team again... unless we lost the first one). By this time the LBs were skittish and did not follow the Guard’s pull at all (we won 44-20). It is part of our package, though we rarely use it (did not do it once this year). We work on it a little bit, just in case we need it… it is a good thing to have if you need it. We call it “Bass” (as in bassackwards)… and just add that to the end of the play called. (ex: Boot Right Bass).
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Post by phantom on Dec 8, 2005 15:14:20 GMT -6
Defensively, disguise is important to us. We'll stem fronts, bail the secondary, mug LBs, show blitz then walk out. Anything to keep the offense out of their zone. I do agree, though, that execution is a lot more important so some years we'll do it more than others. Also, we'll do a lot more disguise stuff as the season goes on and we're comfortable that the kids know their jobs and can handle their assignments while disguising.
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Post by tog on Dec 8, 2005 15:46:15 GMT -6
How much more do you try and screw things up when you are undertalented phantom?
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Post by phantom on Dec 8, 2005 18:42:14 GMT -6
Talent's not the issue. We always want to use deception to disrupt the offense. The issue is whether we're confident that the players can handle it mentally.
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Post by tog on Dec 8, 2005 20:24:01 GMT -6
i agree totally about what the players can handle, but after that, do you look at HAVING to do more than usual just to keep undertalented kids close?
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Post by coachcalande on Dec 9, 2005 17:31:47 GMT -6
since im a dw coach...we use motion for all power plays, power off tackle, power sweep and toss blast...so, we also use that motion for all counters, reverses, boots, traps, wedge, qb blast, fb gut, counter trap, counter trey etc.... we also know some teams want to cross key the wings, sooooo, we have a bunch of plays where both our wings cross but the qb or fb run the rock. we dont false pull because lbers really cant get to us anyhow since our wings seal them off pretty well most of the time...we also doint influence trap because readers get double teamed so much that they end up diving into the dirt most of the time...not necessary to influence really. i find that our motion has kids like "kittens chasing string" ...we do jab our fb to the backside of every counter and counter trap as well...if anyone can even see him to key him they take that one false step and get walled off as the fb plants and cutsback to lead the counters...pretty sweet really. we do an aweful lot of faking...alot, every play the qb and both wings must fake if they dont carry the rock...
btw, markham used to put white tape on his black and hispanic players forearms to make it look like the stripes on the ball...pretty sneaky...(illegal id guess)..we do get lots of complaints about our uniforms being so dark that teams cant find the ball.
_
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Post by phantom on Dec 10, 2005 11:43:51 GMT -6
i agree totally about what the players can handle, but after that, do you look at HAVING to do more than usual just to keep undertalented kids close? Well, it's just a part of our system now. There have been games when we felt that we were outmanned and had to try some things to keep the other guys off-balance. Frankly, we've been waxed most times when we've added stuff for a game. Now we put in everything very early. That way it's there if we need it. |
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