nndman
Freshmen Member
Posts: 27 
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Post by nndman on Jul 26, 2024 20:51:12 GMT -6
Here in Virginia there are 6 classifications with 4 regions. The regions determine the amount of teams that qualify for postseason competition with a Virginia High School League rating scale used to determine seedings. Beginning next year, the VHSL will scrap its rating scale and let each region determine how it will select its playoff fields.
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Post by carookie on Jul 26, 2024 21:14:04 GMT -6
California Southern Section (most of Southern California) utilizes a mix of rating system and taking the top half of teams from each league (leagues being a group of 5-8 teams roughly the same size from the same geographic region). About 5 years ago, they started doing equitable playoff brackets. Essentially the top 8 teams to make the playoffs are D1, the next 16 are D2, next 16 D3, etc.
What we used to be, was you would get 5 leagues of roughly similar sized teams (each league with about 6 teams). Each would send their top three teams to the playoffs and there'd be one wildcard. 16 teams, 4 playoff rounds, in the end winner was declared champ. Simple enough.
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 27, 2024 4:35:50 GMT -6
In Minnesota there are eight sections per class. Everyone makes the section playoffs regardless of record. If there are not eight teams then the top teams start earning byes. There are sections with as few as five teams. Sections are geographic and often you can end up with three teams in the top 10 in the same section. One year we were a 5-seed with a 6-2 record. Another year a buddy was a 3-seed in his section with three wins. Most sections use a computer formula to determine seeding. There are a a few who vote.
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Post by realdawg on Jul 27, 2024 5:35:22 GMT -6
In NC each conference has a certain number of automatic bids. Most conferences get 2. Conferences with less that 6 teams get 1, conferences with more than 8 teams get 3. After automatic bids are awarded RPI formula is used to fill out the wild card spots. RPI is your winning percentage x30% plus your opponents winning percentage X40% plus your opponents opponents winning percentage x30%.
This will last for at least 1 more year. After this year we are expanding from 4 to 8 classifications and I am not sure that anyone knows what will happen.
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Post by blb on Jul 27, 2024 6:32:13 GMT -6
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Post by CS on Jul 27, 2024 7:00:41 GMT -6
Top 4 in each conference except the highest classification because there aren’t enough teams so they all make it
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Post by fantom on Jul 27, 2024 10:25:12 GMT -6
Here in Virginia there are 6 classifications with 4 regions. The regions determine the amount of teams that qualify for postseason competition with a Virginia High School League rating scale used to determine seedings. Beginning next year, the VHSL will scrap its rating scale and let each region determine how it will select its playoff fields. Since I don't live in VA or coach anymore I wasn't aware of this change. Do you know why they changed? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 27, 2024 10:30:18 GMT -6
I would be interested in also hearing how things have changed over time.
Louisiana used to be pretty straightforward and solid from what I have read on here. That was probably due to both geographic size and population. Going back 50 years or so up until maybe 10 years ago the format was pretty simple:
Classifications - based on enrollment. In each classifications you had districts based on geography with an emphasis on trying to have roughly the same number of teams in each district.
Originally district champ and runner up made playoffs. After a few consecutive years of some of the "top districts" (particularly the influential "Catholic League" which was a district of primarily New Orleans Catholic schools) having 3 way ties and a team being left out-the brackets were expanded and a wild card system was implemented based on power points.
All teams in a classification were listed in order based on powerpoints. District Champs and District Runner ups would automatically go into playoffs, and then go down the list in order with remaining teams on the list being the wild cards until a 5 round 32 team bracket was filled out. Meaning 10 districts would create 20 champs and runner ups, so 12 wild cards were needed. 9 districts would create 18 auto bids, so 14 wild cards were needed etc.
After some years, the runner ups lost auto bids, and it was just DCs and then power points. Then people fell in love with bracketology and power points started determining seeding.
THEN the private schools and public schools with select enrollment were separated out- the playoff system shifted from a classification system to a "division " system (essentially condensing some of the schools into 4 different classifications for playoff purposes-they call these new things divisions) And there are 2 different playoff brackets - select and non select- each with 4 divisions, with lots of byes involved because there are not enough teams to fill out various rounds of the bracket.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jul 27, 2024 11:53:52 GMT -6
I am glad this was asked because I looked it up and thought ours was different... so this forced me to be educated on our system.
North Dakota's is pretty simple for the most part.
The biggest confusion is that we keep changing the classification names.
AAA (largest)
2 regions. Top 4 in each region qualify by region standings (* CanyonCoach - fix this if I am wrong).
AA (2nd largest)
2 regions. Top 4 in each region qualify by region standings
For the past few years, AAA and AA (or whatever they were called at the time) based this off of QR points- an unexplained system that nobody understands (because no info has been given). I thought we were still doing this (and while the QRF might be a bit to our advantage, I like the "old" way we've re-adopted).
Both AAA and A play east vs west (1 vs 4, 2 vs 3) in the first round.
A (smallest 11 man)
4 regions. Top 4 qualify
Similar to AAA and AA (except northeast vs southeast and northwest vs southwest) 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3.
9 Man
Top 3 in each region qualify... similar structure to the other classes of cross bracketing, but with more regions.
in Class A and 9 man, while the cross brackets are set, the winners are determined by seeding (of the bracket's #1 seed) based on coaches vote.
When we were in class A, one year we were the #1 bracket seed, but 4th/4 of the four #1 seeds. The #1 overall seed was beaten in the quarterfinals, so despite being the "lowest" #1 seed, we hosted all the way through the playoffs.
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Post by fantom on Jul 27, 2024 12:11:57 GMT -6
I would be interested in also hearing how things have changed over time. Things have changed a lot over the years in Virginia. When I first got there in the '70's it was very straightforward: 3 classifications by enrollment, 4 regions with 4 districts each. District winners made the playoffs with seeding done by power points. In the '80's, they decided to split, for football only, each classification in half, creating, in effect, 6 divisions. There had been complaints about disparities. Smaller schools felt that, with only 3 classifications, the smaller schools in each were at a huge disadvantage. Other schools felt that the differences in districts were unfair. Our district had ten teams and quality 9-1 teams might be left out while a .500 team from a neighboring 5-team district got in. Geographically, this caused a problem because the biggest schools were concentrated in Northern VA which would have upset the regional model. To address that they allowed each region to split itself based on enrollment. That meant that a Division 6 school in one region might be a lot smaller than one in a different region. Now, playoffs included district winners plus teams with higher power points. Districts remained the same and smaller schools were allowed to "play up" in a higher division that their enrollment would have allowed. District winners got higher seeds than those with more points but over the years they started seeding solely on power points. Then, around 2010 I think, things got really confusing, at least on paper. They formalized the division model, creating 6 classifications for all sports. Schools were placed strictly by enrollment and were no longer allowed to "play up". Originally, the plan had been to re-make districts, setting them up according to the new classifications. This was unpopular since it meant breaking up long-standing rivalries so they also set up conferences. Existing districts would remain and a district would still have a champion but, for the playoffs, each school would also be in a conference based on enrollment. Playoff participants would be chosen within conferences, strictly by points, with district standings having no bearing. Regions were also re-drawn based on enrollment. Since all regions weren't uniform in size they allowed regions to decide for themselves how many teams they would have in the regional playoffs. That's where they stand now but it seems that it's changing. |
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Post by carookie on Jul 27, 2024 13:42:06 GMT -6
I would be interested in also hearing how things have changed over time.Louisiana used to be pretty straightforward and solid from what I have read on here. That was probably due to both geographic size and population. Going back 50 years or so up until maybe 10 years ago the format was pretty simple: Classifications - based on enrollment. In each classifications you had districts based on geography with an emphasis on trying to have roughly the same number of teams in each district. Originally district champ and runner up made playoffs. After a few consecutive years of some of the "top districts" (particularly the influential "Catholic League" which was a district of primarily New Orleans Catholic schools) having 3 way ties and a team being left out-the brackets were expanded and a wild card system was implemented based on power points. All teams in a classification were listed in order based on powerpoints. District Champs and District Runner ups would automatically go into playoffs, and then go down the list in order with remaining teams on the list being the wild cards until a 5 round 32 team bracket was filled out. Meaning 10 districts would create 20 champs and runner ups, so 12 wild cards were needed. 9 districts would create 18 auto bids, so 14 wild cards were needed etc. After some years, the runner ups lost auto bids, and it was just DCs and then power points. Then people fell in love with bracketology and power points started determining seeding. THEN the private schools and public schools with select enrollment were separated out- the playoff system shifted from a classification system to a "division " system (essentially condensing some of the schools into 4 different classifications for playoff purposes-they call these new things divisions) And there are 2 different playoff brackets - select and non select- each with 4 divisions, with lots of byes involved because there are not enough teams to fill out various rounds of the bracket. Southern California has changed from a straight forward: top few teams in each league make the playoffs, playoff classifications were based on relative size and location. 16 teams per classification, after 4 weeks winner is the champ. To a "equitable" power points model. The initial reason was there were these big schools who had mediocre programs that never stood a chance to compete in division 1 or division 2 playoffs. Now, they can be dropped down to division 13 and go against schools a lot smaller than they and possibly win. About 7 years ago I was at a small private school, we had 108 kids in the school all told, got matched up in the playoffs against a team that had more kids in their football program than we had on campus....equitable. Now, they take all the teams who are playoff eligible, and rank them base on power points; 1-8 are D1, 9-25 D2, etc etc problem is, you can get somewhat rewarded by sandbagging it. A few years back, we were in a game at the end of the season with league title already decided but playoff seeding still up for grabs. Opponent pulled its studs down 10 midway through the 3rd and we blew them out. We get bumped up to be the lowest seed in D4, get beat in the first rd. They drop down to be a top seed in D6 and make a deep run...equitable. |
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Post by cqmiller on Jul 27, 2024 16:43:54 GMT -6
UT... all but like 6. 0-11 isn't uncommon
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Post by coachlit on Jul 28, 2024 2:40:48 GMT -6
Here in Virginia there are 6 classifications with 4 regions. The regions determine the amount of teams that qualify for postseason competition with a Virginia High School League rating scale used to determine seedings. Beginning next year, the VHSL will scrap its rating scale and let each region determine how it will select its playoff fields.I was very curious about this so I had to look it up. According to the VHSL website, each region seedings will be determined by power points unless the region has chosen another format. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jul 28, 2024 8:53:38 GMT -6
To be honest, right now it seems like the coaches that have the pull draw up the qualifications to make sure their resumes look good.
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nndman
Freshmen Member
Posts: 27
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Post by nndman on Jul 28, 2024 11:45:58 GMT -6
Re: Virginia. I don't think this is true but I read on a website (can't recall if VaPreps or SWVA) that the reason the VHSL is scraping handling of its rating system because the person who was in charge of doing the calculations has retire. I'm certain that has been a daunting task because certain private schools and certain out-of-state schools had to be tracked during the season. You can download the upcoming master schedule and see just how many there are. It's a lot!
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 220
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Post by mc140 on Jul 28, 2024 17:03:48 GMT -6
Illinois:
Top 256 teams qualify for playoffs. The 32 biggest teams are put in 8a, next 32 in 7a etc.
- Ties/Seeding are broken by opponents wins first and then the wins by the teams you beat.
- All conference champs make it, but it is rare one is not already in top 256.
- There is a 1.65 multiplier for Private schools who have had certain amounts of success over previous couple of seasons.
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Post by carookie on Jul 28, 2024 19:33:17 GMT -6
Re: Virginia. I don't think this is true but I read on a website (can't recall if VaPreps or SWVA) that the reason the VHSL is scraping handling of its rating system because the person who was in charge of doing the calculations has retire. I'm certain that has been a daunting task because certain private schools and certain out-of-state schools had to be tracked during the season. You can download the upcoming master schedule and see just how many there are. It's a lot! Why not just use Calpreps. They rank every team nationally using a standard margin of victory model, and do so for free (everyone can see). No need for some random person sitting around running a secret calculation. |
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Post by hlb2 on Jul 29, 2024 10:38:56 GMT -6
<<sarcasm engaged>>Here in FL they simply recruit the crap out of the best kids around them to create a super team and win all the games. Thanks to school of choice, and open enrollment, it's all legal. <<sarcasm disengaged>>
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Post by CanyonCoach on Jul 29, 2024 11:35:45 GMT -6
I am glad this was asked because I looked it up and thought ours was different... so this forced me to be educated on our system.
North Dakota's is pretty simple for the most part.
The biggest confusion is that we keep changing the classification names.
AAA (largest)
2 regions. Top 4 in each region qualify by region standings (* CanyonCoach - fix this if I am wrong).
AA (2nd largest)
2 regions. Top 4 in each region qualify by region standings
For the past few years, AAA and AA (or whatever they were called at the time) based this off of QR points- an unexplained system that nobody understands (because no info has been given). I thought we were still doing this (and while the QRF might be a bit to our advantage, I like the "old" way we've re-adopted).
Both AAA and A play east vs west (1 vs 4, 2 vs 3) in the first round.
A (smallest 11 man)
4 regions. Top 4 qualify
Similar to AAA and AA (except northeast vs southeast and northwest vs southwest) 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3.
9 Man
Top 3 in each region qualify... similar structure to the other classes of cross bracketing, but with more regions.
in Class A and 9 man, while the cross brackets are set, the winners are determined by seeding (of the bracket's #1 seed) based on coaches vote.
When we were in class A, one year we were the #1 bracket seed, but 4th/4 of the four #1 seeds. The #1 overall seed was beaten in the quarterfinals, so despite being the "lowest" #1 seed, we hosted all the way through the playoffs.
AAA moved to top 8 according to a secret formula regardless of region affiliation. |
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Post by freezeoption on Jul 31, 2024 11:51:07 GMT -6
Missouri has 6 classes and 8 man. Each school is put into a district of 8. They may be teams on your schedule or not. Within 24 hours after the game the score must be sent to the state. We have a 10 game schedule plus pre season jamboree. Your scores get points. Game 10 first seeded team plays 8th and so on. You win you go on, you lose your done.
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Post by coachwoodall on Jul 31, 2024 16:05:18 GMT -6
Okay, got some clarification on the 'system' we've implemented for our division.
SC has 5 classifications, with '220' schools....... not all schools participate in all sports.... about 210ish for football.
If you do the math, that should be that each classification has about 44 schools with about each classification having 8 regions of 6-7 schools... but no we have 'super' regions and school that cross region for different sports, and others things....
We're 5A, been in the biggest classification since the forward pass was invented.
Last year 5A was 36 schools, 1 play offs. This cycle is 54 schools that will be split into 2 play off divisions. 24 teams qualify in the largest group/size, 24 in the smallest group/size. YEP 48 teams will make the playoffs from the largest classification, AND since since we ALL decided to make everyone happy, we will do the following to determine this asinine playoff format.
We will use region finish, AND us the MaxPreps power ranking..... YEAH!!!!!!!!
AND I can't even tell you what the other classifications are doing.... so, sorry for the rant, but back to my original premise....
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Post by irishdog on Jul 31, 2024 21:40:05 GMT -6
Texas: UIL (Public Schools)
Class 6A Division 1 and 2; Class 5A Division 1 and 2; Class 4A Division 1 and 2; Class 3A Division 1 and 2; Class 2A Division 1 and 2; Class 1A (6 man) Division 1 and 2
Each Division in each classification is divided into districts. District champs and runners up go to first round bi-district playoff games. Winners move to Area. Area winners move to Regionals. Regional winners move to state quarters. State quarters winners move to state semifinals. State semifinal winners move to state championship games.
TAPPS (Private Schools)
Division 1, Division 2, Division 3, Division 4. Six Man - Division 1, Division 2, Division 3
Each Division is split into districts. Top 4 schools in each district are seeded for first round playoff games. Winners advance to state quarterfinal games. Quarterfinals winners advance to State semi-finals. Semi-finals advance to State championship games.
There are a few other state associations TCAL, TCAF, and TAIAO for very small private/home school teams (mostly 6 man) that hold their own playoffs.
Public and Privates can play one another in early season non-district games but playoffs are separate. Friday Night Lights in Texas is mostly about public schools football, but there are a few good private school programs.
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Post by mrcoachklein on Aug 1, 2024 7:27:14 GMT -6
Ohio has 7 divisions, with around 700 schools total. D1 (big school division) has ~70 teams while the others all have between 105-110. Each division is split into 4 pre-determined regions, and 16 teams per region make the playoffs (was 8 per region until 2021 - not a very popular topic among coaches and fans). Teams gain points to rank within their region based on wins, and there's 2 levels of points.
Level 1 points: awarded for the teams that you beat. D6 school beats a D6 school, it's x amount of points. D6 school beats a D4 school, it's x+1, D6 school beats a D7 school, and it's x-1. Basically level 1 points incentivize schools to play bigger schools that they can still beat, and discourages big schools playing smaller ones.
Level 2 points: awarded based on the wins by teams that you beat. You beat a team to give them their only loss, you get loaded up with level 2 points. Beat a team with no wins, no level 2 points.
There's a lot of push for a "strength of schedule" factor to be considered in Ohio, but I'm against it. The 2 levels of points already encourage teams to play bigger schools that will win games. I'm vehemently against awarding anything for losing a game, no matter how good the other team was.
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creid
Sophomore Member
Posts: 150
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Post by creid on Aug 2, 2024 10:24:33 GMT -6
Texas does have one quirk. The 6A schools do not divide to Division 1 and 2 until the season is over. All 250 or so 6A schools are lumped into one classification and divided into 32 districts. The top 4 schools from each district at the end of the season make the playoffs. Then the 2 schools with the higher enrollments are division 1 and the 2 smaller schools are division 2. It is possible to have under 3000 students and be placed into the division 1 playoff bracket and over 5000 students and be in the division 2 bracket. It is like this because of geography. Travel would be absurd for schools in places like Midland and Odessa if 6A was divided into two divisions for their district alignments. Texas: UIL (Public Schools) Class 6A Division 1 and 2; Class 5A Division 1 and 2; Class 4A Division 1 and 2; Class 3A Division 1 and 2; Class 2A Division 1 and 2; Class 1A (6 man) Division 1 and 2 Each Division in each classification is divided into districts. District champs and runners up go to first round bi-district playoff games. Winners move to Area. Area winners move to Regionals. Regional winners move to state quarters. State quarters winners move to state semifinals. State semifinal winners move to state championship games. TAPPS (Private Schools) Division 1, Division 2, Division 3, Division 4. Six Man - Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 Each Division is split into districts. Top 4 schools in each district are seeded for first round playoff games. Winners advance to state quarterfinal games. Quarterfinals winners advance to State semi-finals. Semi-finals advance to State championship games. There are a few other state associations TCAL, TCAF, and TAIAO for very small private/home school teams (mostly 6 man) that hold their own playoffs. Public and Privates can play one another in early season non-district games but playoffs are separate. Friday Night Lights in Texas is mostly about public schools football, but there are a few good private school programs. |
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Post by freezeoption on Aug 2, 2024 17:03:24 GMT -6
I forgot to add Missouri has a success factor. So if you win a lot you can be moved to the next class and so on. Privates play publics. No distinction, which isn't really fair when you get Missouri schools getting kids from Illinois or Kansas. We actually have a couple military academies but they usually are not very good.
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Post by irishdog on Aug 2, 2024 19:49:57 GMT -6
Texas does have one quirk. The 6A schools do not divide to Division 1 and 2 until the season is over. All 250 or so 6A schools are lumped into one classification and divided into 32 districts. The top 4 schools from each district at the end of the season make the playoffs. Then the 2 schools with the higher enrollments are division 1 and the 2 smaller schools are division 2. It is possible to have under 3000 students and be placed into the division 1 playoff bracket and over 5000 students and be in the division 2 bracket. It is like this because of geography. Travel would be absurd for schools in places like Midland and Odessa if 6A was divided into two divisions for their district alignments. Texas: UIL (Public Schools) Class 6A Division 1 and 2; Class 5A Division 1 and 2; Class 4A Division 1 and 2; Class 3A Division 1 and 2; Class 2A Division 1 and 2; Class 1A (6 man) Division 1 and 2 Each Division in each classification is divided into districts. District champs and runners up go to first round bi-district playoff games. Winners move to Area. Area winners move to Regionals. Regional winners move to state quarters. State quarters winners move to state semifinals. State semifinal winners move to state championship games. TAPPS (Private Schools) Division 1, Division 2, Division 3, Division 4. Six Man - Division 1, Division 2, Division 3 Each Division is split into districts. Top 4 schools in each district are seeded for first round playoff games. Winners advance to state quarterfinal games. Quarterfinals winners advance to State semi-finals. Semi-finals advance to State championship games. There are a few other state associations TCAL, TCAF, and TAIAO for very small private/home school teams (mostly 6 man) that hold their own playoffs. Public and Privates can play one another in early season non-district games but playoffs are separate. Friday Night Lights in Texas is mostly about public schools football, but there are a few good private school programs. Good catch! I completely whiffed on that one. You are absolutely right. Anyone familiar with the literal size of Texas can understand that places like Midland, Odessa, and El Paso in the west are two digit hours away from Houston in the SE and Dallas in the NE. |
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