|
Post by coachdmyers on Jun 3, 2024 11:43:18 GMT -6
How do you all handle it? When a kid comes out that is just so athletically and physically underdeveloped that you're concerned for their well-being, what do you guys do? I'm thinking about kids that are no longer freshmen in particular.
|
|
|
Post by CS on Jun 3, 2024 11:58:18 GMT -6
How do you all handle it? When a kid comes out that is just so athletically and physically underdeveloped that you're concerned for their well-being, what do you guys do? I'm thinking about kids that are no longer freshmen in particular. Sit them down and talk with them man to man. If he wants to just be a part of the team get him some gear and make him the manager
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jun 3, 2024 12:10:40 GMT -6
Meet with the kid and be honest. Tell him he can't do any live until he can meet certain standards. Those standards can be whatever you determine (Weight room, speed, size, properly tackle a dummy, etc).
But then give him a road map on how to attain the standards. Also tell him there are other ways to help the team until he meets those standards. Dummy holder, manager, water boy, clip board holder, scout team organizer, technology, etc.
We had a similar kid that would hold cards for a position group. He was almost like a mini-coach. Had another kid cut-up film. Had another help make sure the dummies and cones were in the right place.
All were members of the team and treated as such. None ended up helping on the field. Ha. But it was a positive experience for the kid and the team.
|
|
|
Post by bignose on Jun 3, 2024 12:20:37 GMT -6
If I had a kid that was that unable to protect themselves, who wanted to play, I would also get the parents involved with the participation discussion.
I would make it very clear that your decisions are based on your concern for the kid's well being (as well as to cover your ass).
Locally, we had a head coach get sued by a parent because he wouldn't let their son try out due to his lack of ability, athleticism, etc. He was 105 pounds.
The bottom line was the County wide school system (12 high schools) administration mandated that we keep up to date records of any physical testing data on the kid to support the coach's decision.
|
|
|
Post by coachdubyah on Jun 3, 2024 15:08:47 GMT -6
This thread alone makes me rage on kids getting physicals…how does a kid like this pass a physical?
What’s been said is a good approach. Most of the time the kids know. If it got too much, involve the parents and get their doctor to do a thorough physical…most of the time if you take this approach it takes care of itself.
I once had a kid bring me a bottle of pills and say “Coach my doctor told me that if pass out to just put one of these under my tongue and I’ll come back”…
Me: ‘Billy’ it’s time for you and I to have a talk.
^That happened to me in 2018.
|
|
|
Post by chi5hi on Jun 3, 2024 16:01:56 GMT -6
How do you all handle it? When a kid comes out that is just so athletically and physically underdeveloped that you're concerned for their well-being, what do you guys do? I'm thinking about kids that are no longer freshmen in particular. We have allowed underdeveloped Sophomores to play a second year of Freshman football.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Jun 3, 2024 17:00:29 GMT -6
This thread alone makes me rage on kids getting physicals…how does a kid like this pass a physical? What’s been said is a good approach. Most of the time the kids know. If it got too much, involve the parents and get their doctor to do a thorough physical…most of the time if you take this approach it takes care of itself. I once had a kid bring me a bottle of pills and say “Coach my doctor told me that if pass out to just put one of these under my tongue and I’ll come back”… Me: ‘Billy’ it’s time for you and I to have a talk. ^That happened to me in 2018. One's blood pressure, heart rate and not having a hernia have nothing whatsoever to do with protecting themselves on a football field.
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Jun 3, 2024 18:04:03 GMT -6
This thread alone makes me rage on kids getting physicals…how does a kid like this pass a physical? What’s been said is a good approach. Most of the time the kids know. If it got too much, involve the parents and get their doctor to do a thorough physical…most of the time if you take this approach it takes care of itself. I once had a kid bring me a bottle of pills and say “Coach my doctor told me that if pass out to just put one of these under my tongue and I’ll come back”… Me: ‘Billy’ it’s time for you and I to have a talk. ^That happened to me in 2018. I am guessing its more on the lines of the kid is undersized, not physical at all, unathletic as ever, etc... not based on a medical condition. We've had kids cry in our dynamic warm up lines before, I'm guessing the OP is talking about kids like that. In my experience they usually travel in pairs so you should have at a partner for them in drills and they can pillow fight when it's their turn to go. Let them be, using a great term I pulled off of here years ago, RWEs (Ride, Watch, Eat).
|
|
|
Post by realdawg on Jun 4, 2024 4:27:06 GMT -6
They can do non contact individual drills, try to keep them out of contact drills and live periods.
|
|
|
Post by coachdmyers on Jun 4, 2024 8:24:46 GMT -6
There is some great advice in here, thanks. And to clarify, I'm not talking about medically fragile kids, just the ones that are super underdeveloped.
|
|
|
Post by freezeoption on Jun 4, 2024 8:46:30 GMT -6
Make sure to bring in parents for the talk. Some parents don't get it. I've said this before. I had a 300 pound kid that had down syndrome and seizures. He would have seizures right on sideline. Parents would always get pissed at me for not playing him much.If we had more kids he wouldn't have played at all but we only had 11 kids.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jun 4, 2024 9:07:46 GMT -6
Agree on making sure ALL the coaches, the kid, the parents, and ADMIN all know the situation.
The last thing you want is one volunteer coach making the kid go live against your all-state LB. Or an AD or principal getting a call from a parent and have no clue about the situation.
|
|
|
Post by IronmanFootball on Jun 4, 2024 9:16:40 GMT -6
I've done the man to man, and said when your folks get here, tell them I'd like to chat.
Just explain I don't feel it's safe for X to participate at this time. But I would offer the manager role while still being allowed to do our S&C program.
Had a little slappy under 5'4 grow to be a HUGE slappy over 6'3 in a year. You never know who hits puberty and when.
|
|
|
Post by 3rdandlong on Jun 4, 2024 14:03:08 GMT -6
Make sure to bring in parents for the talk. Some parents don't get it. I've said this before. I had a 300 pound kid that had down syndrome and seizures. He would have seizures right on sideline. Parents would always get pissed at me for not playing him much.If we had more kids he wouldn't have played at all but we only had 11 kids. Agreed! For ever cool video you see of a special needs kid scoring a TD vs. a willing defense during a blowout game, there are countless other unintended consequences. Unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished.
|
|
|
Post by blackknight on Jun 6, 2024 19:56:04 GMT -6
If I go way back to when I was as OL coach I hated lines so instead I always had them work in pairs or four man blocks. I used the following language: "Stud on Stud, Pud on Pud". Somehow no one ever asked where they belonged or had to be told to move.
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Jun 8, 2024 19:24:32 GMT -6
HC has a rule for anyone new joining; you must meet a minimum workout requirement to get equipment.
Also must meet a minimum number of practices with equipment commitment to participate in a inter-squad competitions.
Basically you have to lift/run for 4 weeks before you could get a helmet/pads for spring ball/summer work.
If you show up at the beginning of school/fall ball you have to work out/commit for the 1st month of the season before you could even suit up for a game.
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Jun 8, 2024 19:31:05 GMT -6
Not exactly what the OP is addressing, but the idea is that you can't play until you can prove you can play.
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Jun 11, 2024 5:37:04 GMT -6
HC has a rule for anyone new joining; you must meet a minimum workout requirement to get equipment. Also must meet a minimum number of practices with equipment commitment to participate in a inter-squad competitions. Basically you have to lift/run for 4 weeks before you could get a helmet/pads for spring ball/summer work. If you show up at the beginning of school/fall ball you have to work out/commit for the 1st month of the season before you could even suit up for a game. I get the idea behind it all but some places you literally need every swinging d**k that shows up to be on the team. We have had kids show up sometime in summer or right before pads and end up contributing. Also the exact opposite too and they end up as RWEs... I said in an earlier response, you can guarantee that if you have one RWE you have two, so they can just hang out at practice and titty bump in drill and feel good about being football players. I see some of these teams with 100 kids on them and you know not all of those kids do anything game wise during the season, most are just the RWEs of the first world. It's all how you manage it in practice and of course games. Some kids just want the experience, let em enjoy it.
|
|
|
Post by bignose on Jun 11, 2024 8:12:52 GMT -6
We had a female try out for our team several years ago. She was a well knit, solid 140 pounds, with some athleticism. She was a junior, had never played, and lacked any sort of aggressiveness.
After getting her fitted with an appropriate pair of shoulder pads (I had our female trainer present when I fitted her), I explained to her that she would have to develop her football skills. She was agreeable to this. The other coaches essentially ignored her, hoping she would quit.
Towards the end of the early fall inter team scrimmage, we got her in as a defensive back, and as expected she got hammered (basically, just run over).
As the season progressed, she participated in drills (we were careful about mismatches) and we would use her in practice as a scout team defensive back, figuring that she could stand out in coverage and fill a position.
I would occasionally have to remind her to: "Earn her scholarship" when she hung back as a scout team player. This always got a smile from her.
She also got to carry the ball in scout team vs. the defense. She took some hits, but started to catch on.
At the end of the season, we were blowing out another team, we put her in as a running back in a goal line situation. Her first two attempts saw her miss the POA, but on the third try, the second team offense blocked well enough that she was able to score a TD.
The kids carried her off of the field!
She wisely decided not to play her senior year, but I was glad that she was able to have a positive experience.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jun 11, 2024 8:19:54 GMT -6
We had a female try out for our team several years ago. She was a well knit, solid 140 pounds, with some athleticism. She was a junior, had never played, and lacked any sort of aggressiveness. After getting her fitted with an appropriate pair of shoulder pads (I had our female trainer present when I fitted her), I explained to her that she would have to develop her football skills. She was agreeable to this. The other coaches essentially ignored her, hoping she would quit. Towards the end of the early fall inter team scrimmage, we got her in as a defensive back, and as expected she got hammered (basically, just run over). As the season progressed, she participated in drills (we were careful about mismatches) and we would use her in practice as a scout team defensive back, figuring that she could stand out in coverage and fill a position. I would occasionally have to remind her to: "Earn her scholarship" when she hung back as a scout team player. This always got a smile from her. She also got to carry the ball in scout team vs. the defense. She took some hits, but started to catch on. At the end of the season, we were blowing out another team, we put her in as a running back in a goal line situation. Her first two attempts saw her miss the POA, but on the third try, the second team offense blocked well enough that she was able to score a TD. The kids carried her off of the field! She wisely decided not to play her senior year, but I was glad that she was able to have a positive experience. That is awesome!
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Jun 11, 2024 8:52:23 GMT -6
If I had a kid that was that unable to protect themselves, who wanted to play, I would also get the parents involved with the participation discussion. I would make it very clear that your decisions are based on your concern for the kid's well being (as well as to cover your ass). Locally, we had a head coach get sued by a parent because he wouldn't let their son try out due to his lack of ability, athleticism, etc. He was 105 pounds. The bottom line was the County wide school system (12 high schools) administration mandated that we keep up to date records of any physical testing data on the kid to support the coach's decision. Agreed. I think involving the parents is the best recourse. IME, most parents would be understanding in this situation, given that you're looking at it from a safety standpoint. And, it's best if you can come up with a solution that everyone agrees on.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jun 11, 2024 11:38:41 GMT -6
We had a female try out for our team several years ago. She was a well knit, solid 140 pounds, with some athleticism. She was a junior, had never played, and lacked any sort of aggressiveness. After getting her fitted with an appropriate pair of shoulder pads (I had our female trainer present when I fitted her), I explained to her that she would have to develop her football skills. She was agreeable to this. The other coaches essentially ignored her, hoping she would quit. Towards the end of the early fall inter team scrimmage, we got her in as a defensive back, and as expected she got hammered (basically, just run over). As the season progressed, she participated in drills (we were careful about mismatches) and we would use her in practice as a scout team defensive back, figuring that she could stand out in coverage and fill a position. I would occasionally have to remind her to: "Earn her scholarship" when she hung back as a scout team player. This always got a smile from her. She also got to carry the ball in scout team vs. the defense. She took some hits, but started to catch on. At the end of the season, we were blowing out another team, we put her in as a running back in a goal line situation. Her first two attempts saw her miss the POA, but on the third try, the second team offense blocked well enough that she was able to score a TD. The kids carried her off of the field! She wisely decided not to play her senior year, but I was glad that she was able to have a positive experience. Back in late '80s I had some girls ask me if they could come out for Football. I told them of course they could, but they would have to meet all the team requirements, and prove they could protect themselves. Pretty sure they were just testing to see if I was a chauvinist because none of them ever did. Ironic thing is one of them had been QB on Rocket League team, and our Volleyball team that won several state championships during that time had some girls that were better athletes than we did.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jun 11, 2024 11:55:51 GMT -6
If I had a kid that was that unable to protect themselves, who wanted to play, I would also get the parents involved with the participation discussion. I would make it very clear that your decisions are based on your concern for the kid's well being (as well as to cover your ass). Locally, we had a head coach get sued by a parent because he wouldn't let their son try out due to his lack of ability, athleticism, etc. He was 105 pounds. The bottom line was the County wide school system (12 high schools) administration mandated that we keep up to date records of any physical testing data on the kid to support the coach's decision. Agreed. I think involving the parents is the best recourse. IME, most parents would be understanding in this situation, given that you're looking at it from a safety standpoint. And, it's best if you can come up with a solution that everyone agrees on. Most, but not all. One school I was HC at in my first year had parents that threatened to sue if their Special Needs son was not allowed to be on the team (previous coach made him a manager). The kid (who was borderline morbidly obese) could not make it through a Warm-Up or Drill of any kind much less protect himself. But we had to put him on the team, let him practice (after a fashion) and dress for first game. After the latter his parents came in and confronted me about why we had not gotten him into the contest. I told them he was fourth string at his position and we had three other kids to get PT before we could consider putting him in. I don't know if that placated them but never heard from them again.
|
|
|
Post by blb on Jun 11, 2024 12:29:40 GMT -6
I get the idea behind it all but some places you literally need every swinging d**k that shows up to be on the team. At my last HC job - small (~400 enrollment) school numbers were a problem. Had one kid who was 5-7, 120 as freshman come out. He had nothing to offer as a football player and had some other "issues" as well (Resource Room kid). He was part of the Marching Band too. We let him stay in the program anyway which was probably a mistake. When he got to varsity as a junior occasionally he would come to me after school and tell me he couldn't practice that day because of - whatever. As a senior he didn't miss practice but he wasn't any better than he was a freshman. Was a danger to himself on defense and QBs wouldn't throw him the ball as WR because he was so slow into routes and couldn't catch anyway (may not have wanted to?). The kind of player I normally would have (should have) counselled off the team. Earlier, probably. But when he didn't get into games his father started raising hell in the stands, to the point after his last game Dad had to be escorted out of stadium-banned from campus. No good deed goes unpunished. Three years later after volunteer-helping with band he was sent to prison for sexually assaulting female members.
|
|
|
Post by irishdog on Jun 11, 2024 14:05:14 GMT -6
All of the above. Most importantly include the parent(s) in the discussion. Bottom line is how important it is to set standards for ALL prospects. Too often I see and hear coaches talk their "dudes" up. When I was coaching I made it clear to my staff that EVERY kid intending to play was considered a "prospect" first. Every kid had to meet the expectations and standards regardless if they were returning varsity starters, or sub-varsity kids. Of course we KNEW who the "dudes" were or even would be, but we made sure that our message getting out was that EVERY kid was a prospect first, and required to meet varsity expectations and standards in order to become members of the varsity team. I believed that a varsity prospect had to prove they possessed the physical, mental, and emotional maturity to make the team. If not they were placed on a sub-varsity team. In small schools with small numbers we did the same but had to limit varsity playing time for those who didn't meet all the criteria. Yes, there were times we played seniors who were lacking experience, size, speed, etc. in a sub-varsity game in agreement with the opposing coaches. Parents loved us because those boys got the chance to play. Toward the end of the season some actually saw more varsity playing time when we could get them in because they gradually improved enough to warrant it.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoachklein on Jun 14, 2024 9:13:19 GMT -6
Some parents are more out of touch with reality than they will ever realize. We had a kid show up to pre-season meetings this year that is maybe 100 pounds soaking wet, and severely mentally handicapped - so much so that his tutor/teacher (who is hired by the county because our school doesn't have the resources) had to walk him to the meetings and sign his name for him. He's not non-verbal, but he's pretty close. HC and principal had a meeting with the dad - dad said he wanted him to play because it was HIS dream (not the son's) to see his son catch a football in a game. We played along for the first practice, principal came and had to walk him around the field and tell him exactly what to do and where to be. We told the dad that after the first week of summer ball we wouldn't be able to do that, and that if he wanted to play he had to be able to attend and complete our summer conditioning with the rest of the team. After coming to the first practice and watching everyone else in the weight room on day 1, kid and dad both decided playing football wasn't for him. Sometimes you need to just entertain the idea long enough for the issue to figure itself out.
|
|