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Post by hlb2 on Jan 15, 2024 6:04:36 GMT -6
How many of you have been put in a similar situation that we are seeing at Alabama? I was, and failed miserably, however it was my first head coaching gig and I had 0 clue what to do (which had a larger part of my failure than following a legend). If you were successful, what did you do that led to that? Did you continue what your predecessor did, or did you strike out on your own path? I know ever situation is different, but I'm sure there are similarities as well. Just curious, as all week you've been hearing that real coaches aren't afraid to follow legends, and then the next talking head states he wouldn't want to be the guy that follows the guy. Just curious what most thought about that situation and if anyone has done it with any success?
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Post by CS on Jan 15, 2024 7:35:35 GMT -6
How many of you have been put in a similar situation that we are seeing at Alabama? I was, and failed miserably, however it was my first head coaching gig and I had 0 clue what to do (which had a larger part of my failure than following a legend). If you were successful, what did you do that led to that? Did you continue what your predecessor did, or did you strike out on your own path? I know ever situation is different, but I'm sure there are similarities as well. Just curious, as all week you've been hearing that real coaches aren't afraid to follow legends, and then the next talking head states he wouldn't want to be the guy that follows the guy. Just curious what most thought about that situation and if anyone has done it with any success? I followed a guy who was at the place for 18 years, lots of success but had been in decline, and he had never coached anywhere else. I’m not one to shy away from following a great football coach but I was fuking stupid for this one. In high school you really have to do your research and in my arrogance and impatience to be the guy I jumped at the job. So when I got there I found all the reasons why that dude left. In college at least you get to bring your own staff and recruit. Following Saban would be a tough one |
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 15, 2024 7:40:45 GMT -6
Basically describing the last week of my life. I was recently made the HC of my alma mater, following a man with 314 wins, 9 section championships, and a legacy as one of the best Wing-T minds in the country.
We're going to keep some parts of what's made us successful, but I am also going to be making plenty of changes over time. You have to know yourself and be authentic, anything else is suicide. Recognize what's helped make the place successful, find a way to make those systems work for you, and then move things in the direction you want as well as you can.
I've also had some experience doing this in a T&F setting and I'm basically describing the same blue print that I used there. If you try to be 100% the same as your predecessor, it's not going to work, you're not the same person. You have to be able to adapt what's been established to your personality and your overall vision for the program.
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Post by realdawg on Jan 15, 2024 7:47:53 GMT -6
Old saying in you never want to be the guy to follow a legend. Be the guy who follows the guy who replaced the legend. 😂
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Post by CS on Jan 15, 2024 7:50:13 GMT -6
Basically describing the last week of my life. I was recently made the HC of my alma mater, following a man with 314 wins, 9 section championships, and a legacy as one of the best Wing-T minds in the country. We're going to keep some parts of what's made us successful, but I am also going to be making plenty of changes over time. You have to know yourself and be authentic, anything else is suicide. Recognize what's helped make the place successful, find a way to make those systems work for you, and then move things in the direction you want as well as you can. I've also had some experience doing this in a T&F setting and I'm basically describing the same blue print that I used there. If you try to be 100% the same as your predecessor, it's not going to work, you're not the same person. You have to be able to adapt what's been established to your personality and your overall vision for the program. Congrats! |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 15, 2024 8:45:28 GMT -6
Basically describing the last week of my life. I was recently made the HC of my alma mater, following a man with 314 wins, 9 section championships, and a legacy as one of the best Wing-T minds in the country. We're going to keep some parts of what's made us successful, but I am also going to be making plenty of changes over time. You have to know yourself and be authentic, anything else is suicide. Recognize what's helped make the place successful, find a way to make those systems work for you, and then move things in the direction you want as well as you can. I've also had some experience doing this in a T&F setting and I'm basically describing the same blue print that I used there. If you try to be 100% the same as your predecessor, it's not going to work, you're not the same person. You have to be able to adapt what's been established to your personality and your overall vision for the program. What things have you identified as "key success factors" and what things are you planning to evolve to be authentic? |
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Post by mrjvi on Jan 15, 2024 13:02:27 GMT -6
I have been VERY lucky (  ?) to have taken over at places that were lousy before I got there. The only advice that I think might help is to sell whatever you do to the players. If you have the players usually you have the rest. But change things as slowly as you can and use what made the previous coach successful, specifically to that unique community. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 15, 2024 13:30:42 GMT -6
I have been VERY lucky ( ?) to have taken over at places that were lousy before I got there. The only advice that I think might help is to sell whatever you do to the players. If you have the players usually you have the rest. But change things as slowly as you can and use what made the previous coach successful, specifically to that unique community. I've never done it as a HC, but been around a couple as an AC. 1st was when I was just starting out, school that was a loser, HC brought in (pretty late) known as a guy who can turn things around, etc... One of his big selling points to the (rising) senior class was that 'when' the school won a state championship, they would get a ring along with everyone else. Interesting point to use, but the circumstances for ever happening were not in the cards, HC never unpacked and was gone before Christmas. He didn't do his research (OOS HC) and part of the move for him was to be near his daughter..... then again as he said about a week before he hit the road said, "There are some schools that are career killers" The other was at an established school that had won big before, but the HC before we came in -- was the guy that replaced THE GUY. Bunch of circumstances that would take too long to delve into.... mainly lax rules enforcement, and things like if it looked like rain the previous HC cancelled practice. It took a couple years of basically preaching, "A Monday is going to be a Monday, not matter what; and a Tuesday is going to be a Tuesday no matter what, ....... " every single day, we were able to get back to the mountain. But then we hit a typical dry spell like many schools..... I've heard on here and around my circles that when you take over you have to figure the senior class quickly. Those are the dudes that are either looking for a change on their last go 'round and are ready to run with it, or they are the boat anchor you have to cut loose as quick as possible. |
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Post by bluboy on Jan 15, 2024 13:50:59 GMT -6
"I've heard on here and around my circles that when you take over you have to figure the senior class quickly. Those are the dudes that are either looking for a change on their last go 'round and are ready to run with it, or they are the boat anchor you have to cut loose as quick as possible." I totally agree!!!
At my one HC job, the seniors were the anchor I should have cut lose early. I tried to work with them, but it was pushing wet spaghetti up a hill....
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 15, 2024 14:29:47 GMT -6
I took over for a “legend” at a program who still has the longest playoff streak in the state (which is still going).
I was going in to my 4th year- had 3 failed seasons as a head coach right out of college and was hired as a “head coach in waiting”… so I worked as an assistant for a year before taking over.
Basically, the HC wanted to step down to watch his son play in college, but the school wanted him to go one more year to usher in the new guy.
I was very fortunate to be that “new guy”. I learned more from him in a week than I did tripping over myself for 3 years.
When I became the HC, we kept a lot of things in place. I liked his defense- so we kept that. Offensively we made a formation change (from I to wishbone), but a lot of names/calls/philosophies were about the same. Much of the off-season program was the same.
We got along so well that he stayed on as an assistant. He just didn’t want to put in the time to be the head coach, but still enjoyed coaching. He did a great job assisting/supporting.
I left (long story… the bad superintendent I mentioned in another thread) and he took over again (his son had finished his career by then).
I ended up coming back several years later, taking over for him again when he had health issues that forced him to step down.
Taking that job (especially the first time) was the best decision I made in coaching.
(side note: his health eventually improved, and he later helped out again as an assistant… we remain good friends to this day, though I am now in another school in another state).
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 15, 2024 17:36:11 GMT -6
I took over for a guy who had been HC for 25 years, went to the playoffs 18 of those years, multiple quarterfinals and one semifinal. They had waned his last few years and numbers were down. He had wanted to continue coaching after he retired as principal but the school board said no. He was very helpful when I took over, but it was clear a change was needed. I changed just about everything just to fit my personality. Changed the weight room, the practice schedule, the offense, the defense, special teams, uniforms, helmets, literally everything I could. He and I are VERY different people and it showed in my 3rd year when he came back to help out. We went 4-5 my first year, 6-4 my second and 10-1 and 11-1 my 3rd and 4th year. Went 11-17 my last 3 years and it was time to move on. They've went 19-34 in the 7 years since I left. This was my 2nd go around as HC. The 1st one I took over for a guy who was a town legend, but had only been HC 4 years. However, in those 4 years we went from 0-9 and only scoring 26pts the whole season to 10-3 and state semifinalists. I'll went 5-5 and was gone after 1 year, but that's because I told the super to get bent. My 3rd job as a HC I took over for a HOF coach who was only at the school 3 years, but went to the playoffs at a place who hadn't made them in a while 2 of the 3. I'm fairly familiar with the concept...  |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 15, 2024 17:52:12 GMT -6
I think the situation at Bama is probably pretty rare. In this particular situation, DeBoer is taking over after a guy (Saban) who has not only had a legendary career, but managed to supplant a guy who previously might have been considered the most accomplished or beloved coach in history. That is like taking over after a guy came into Curtis or Summerville and won more games than Mckissick or JT Curtis.
Not only that- but it wasn't as if Bama was waning. They were just a few plays from playing in yet another (would have been 7th I believe) championship game.
The pressure will be immense. The Bama fans will be complaining when he loses his first cointoss.
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Post by freezeoption on Jan 15, 2024 17:59:49 GMT -6
Took over after the guy that was the man before. I thought I did a good job of researching but the man I took over lied to my face about why he gave up hfc. The man was the superintendent and wanted to be the coach again.
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Post by tripsclosed on Jan 15, 2024 19:26:54 GMT -6
I took over for a “legend” at a program who still has the longest playoff streak in the state (which is still going). I was going in to my 4th year- had 3 failed seasons as a head coach right out of college and was hired as a “head coach in waiting”… so I worked as an assistant for a year before taking over. Basically, the HC wanted to step down to watch his son play in college, but the school wanted him to go one more year to usher in the new guy. I was very fortunate to be that “new guy”. I learned more from him in a week than I did tripping over myself for 3 years. When I became the HC, we kept a lot of things in place. I liked his defense- so we kept that. Offensively we made a formation change (from I to wishbone), but a lot of names/calls/philosophies were about the same. Much of the off-season program was the same. We got along so well that he stayed on as an assistant. He just didn’t want to put in the time to be the head coach, but still enjoyed coaching. He did a great job assisting/supporting. I left (long story… the bad superintendent I mentioned in another thread) and he took over again (his son had finished his career by then). I ended up coming back several years later, taking over for him again when he had health issues that forced him to step down. Taking that job (especially the first time) was the best decision I made in coaching. (side note: his health eventually improved, and he later helped out again as an assistant… we remain good friends to this day, though I am now in another school in another state). Dang man that's about as good of a career as you can ask for |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 16, 2024 8:54:20 GMT -6
Dang man that's about as good of a career as you can ask for I can't argue with that. I've been pretty lucky/fortunate/blessed... however you want to look at it. |
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Post by jg78 on Jan 16, 2024 12:29:59 GMT -6
Maybe but when these guys get fired they get eight figure (even high eight figure) buyouts. We have to find another job to pay the mortgage and put the kids through college. I would rather get grilled by Finebaum and the whole state of Alabama while I'm sitting on a beach with zero financial worries than sit at my kitchen table trying to figure out how to pay the bills with a city or county ripping me.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 16, 2024 13:15:08 GMT -6
Maybe but when these guys get fired they get eight figure (even high eight figure) buyouts. We have to find another job to pay the mortgage and put the kids through college. I would rather get grilled by Finebaum and the whole state of Alabama while I'm sitting on a beach with zero financial worries than sit at my kitchen table trying to figure out how to pay the bills with a city or county ripping me. I don't think many would disagree with those specific sentiments. I was suggesting however, that the pressure DeBoer will have is immense, and personally I don't think the compensation is going to be commensurate compared to what he was going to be making at UW. |
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Post by irishdog on Jan 16, 2024 13:25:27 GMT -6
It's extremely difficult to follow a coaching legend. Even "legends" who did will tell you that.
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 16, 2024 20:26:22 GMT -6
Basically describing the last week of my life. I was recently made the HC of my alma mater, following a man with 314 wins, 9 section championships, and a legacy as one of the best Wing-T minds in the country. We're going to keep some parts of what's made us successful, but I am also going to be making plenty of changes over time. You have to know yourself and be authentic, anything else is suicide. Recognize what's helped make the place successful, find a way to make those systems work for you, and then move things in the direction you want as well as you can. I've also had some experience doing this in a T&F setting and I'm basically describing the same blue print that I used there. If you try to be 100% the same as your predecessor, it's not going to work, you're not the same person. You have to be able to adapt what's been established to your personality and your overall vision for the program. What things have you identified as "key success factors" and what things are you planning to evolve to be authentic? Re: Success #1 - Weight Room makes the whole thing go #2 - More is not better, make them excited for football when it's coming, don't do too much in your summer preparation #3 - What you do isn't as important as HOW you do it (scheme is overrrated) #4 - Run the Wing-T Re: Authenticity I haven't really thought of it as evolving things as much as just understanding that he and I are very different people and it would be wrong to try to be him. I'm going to have his voice in the back of my head for the rest of my career, but there's no way that I would be able to coach like him. It's kinda like the Patricia/McDaniels/Belichick thing, I can't just roll into the job and start doing things the way that I was mentored, recipe for failure. |
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 16, 2024 20:28:52 GMT -6
Basically describing the last week of my life. I was recently made the HC of my alma mater, following a man with 314 wins, 9 section championships, and a legacy as one of the best Wing-T minds in the country. We're going to keep some parts of what's made us successful, but I am also going to be making plenty of changes over time. You have to know yourself and be authentic, anything else is suicide. Recognize what's helped make the place successful, find a way to make those systems work for you, and then move things in the direction you want as well as you can. I've also had some experience doing this in a T&F setting and I'm basically describing the same blue print that I used there. If you try to be 100% the same as your predecessor, it's not going to work, you're not the same person. You have to be able to adapt what's been established to your personality and your overall vision for the program. Congrats! Thanks brother, it's been a hell of a week... |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 16, 2024 22:59:02 GMT -6
Thanks brother, it's been a hell of a week... I've enjoyed your posts and career arcs. You've been a blessing to the board. You need to write an article on these things. |
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Post by CS on Jan 17, 2024 5:55:43 GMT -6
What things have you identified as "key success factors" and what things are you planning to evolve to be authentic? Re: Success #1 - Weight Room makes the whole thing go #2 - More is not better, make them excited for football when it's coming, don't do too much in your summer preparation #3 - What you do isn't as important as HOW you do it (scheme is overrrated) #4 - Run the Wing-T Re: Authenticity I haven't really thought of it as evolving things as much as just understanding that he and I are very different people and it would be wrong to try to be him. I'm going to have his voice in the back of my head for the rest of my career, but there's no way that I would be able to coach like him. It's kinda like the Patricia/McDaniels/Belichick thing, I can't just roll into the job and start doing things the way that I was mentored, recipe for failure. He may start a thread on your #4 reason for success |
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 17, 2024 8:02:55 GMT -6
I got hired at my alma mater last January and I followed up a few successful coaches. I've been coaching here pretty much my whole career (since 2005). Before I became the HC I was the DC for 3 years under the previous coach, 3 years as the OC for the coach before him, special teams coordinator for a couple of those, then before that was a positional coach for my HC who won 3 state titles here before the program fell into mediocrity (reason he was let go/"retired" in 2015).
I felt I was very prepared to become the HC, especially scheme wise. I've been the baseball HC here since 2015 also so I have experience with dealing with parents, fundraising, etc. SO overall I feel I was in a position to succeed. In my first season this past Fall we finished 9-2. After the first week of practice we looked pretty bad, but we stayed the course, got better everyday and ended up having a very successful 1st season (with a freshman QB by the way). I live in a town that loves their football. One of my biggest motivators is not letting the town down.
For advice, be yourself, win in the weight room, always be prepared.
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Post by fantom on Jan 17, 2024 13:34:19 GMT -6
I think that you have to look at the reason the legend is leaving. The situation at Alabama is very different from those in New England.
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Post by Defcord on Jan 17, 2024 13:48:26 GMT -6
If the job is still a good job, I would much rather follow the legend at the good job than some turd a shittty job.
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 414
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Post by SconnieOC on Jan 17, 2024 15:20:16 GMT -6
I'm just starting my 2nd full year as HC. I took over for a guy that was here 32 years, winningest coach in conference history. I played here, and was an assistant/OC for a few years before taking over.
Him and I butted heads, disagreed a lot, and have very different philosophies. By the end of his time it was a very tenuous situation which led to me trying to move things as far in the opposite direction of him as fast as possible. Wrong move. We had a weak senior class and most of them got beat out by younger kids which is great, but they didn't like the changes and became a problem all year long. Not always enough to remove them, but enough to undermine our efforts. Followed up a conference championship with a .500 season. I think there's a balancing act of figuring out the non-negotiables, and then trying to slow roll some of the other changes. At least in hindsight, that should of been our approach this year. It didn't help that the ex-HC told our senior QB (who got beat out by a sophomore week 2) that he should be the starter and I wasn't playing the senior because he "wasn't my guy" (I was his position coach and OC the 2 years prior).. you can only imagine the $hitstorm that caused.
Fortunately we have awesome buy-in from our soph/junior class so we'll be in good shape moving forward.
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?) to have taken over at places that were lousy before I got there. The only advice that I think might help is to sell whatever you do to the players. If you have the players usually you have the rest. But change things as slowly as you can and use what made the previous coach successful, specifically to that unique community.
