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Post by spartan on Dec 14, 2023 8:38:41 GMT -6
Had the opportunity to watch the whole system on youtube this week. Some take aways.
1. Scam
2. He doesn't even know his system, "When we talked to this guy we did this," We talked to this guy we changed it"
3. Results don't match the cost. You got athletes you can run that generic system
4. The Weekly meetings for the group was neat and a great way to expand your knowledge base.
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Post by coachscdub on Dec 14, 2023 8:55:53 GMT -6
Are you talking about the one thats online that's from like 2009?
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Post by Coach JR on Dec 17, 2023 13:23:37 GMT -6
Are you talking about the one thats online that's from like 2009? I’d be curious to see “the whole system” on YouTube |
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Post by Coach.A on Dec 17, 2023 14:32:02 GMT -6
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Post by CanyonCoach on Dec 18, 2023 12:48:07 GMT -6
When we first got our staff together I bought the NZone system with Noel Manzone. I think he was at UCLA at the time.
The verbiage alone was daunting. No spring ball and really not much of a summer to install.
The weekly meetings were at bad times and watching the replay didn’t allow any interaction to get questions asked.
Expensive!
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Post by olcoach53 on Dec 19, 2023 9:00:38 GMT -6
Tony Franklin system is just the Air Raid with his own terminology
Also he refers to it as "The System" which is as egotistical as it gets
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Dec 19, 2023 18:05:25 GMT -6
For what it is, I don’t think anyone does the “system in a box” better than Tony. Years worth of information, practice formats, cut ups, etc.
In the end it isn’t a “run these plays and you’ll win”- the best part of it is the practice structure and a common terminology that you can mold into what fits your talent.
Was part of a staff that were members. 2 years later we had evolved it and were using the terminology and what not and were a more 20/21 personnel pro style spread- but the practice structure and the common language set us up for success.
If you expect to watch a series of videos on just the plays and win then it’s not that.
By the end of it he wasn’t even Air Raid- but it was so deep in terms of what he had done in the past you could mold it to whatever you wanted.
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Post by 60zgo on Jan 4, 2024 12:17:15 GMT -6
Been a client since the beginning and I think there is some real amnesia happening here. Twenty years ago you were hard pressed to get any legit Air Raid info. Much less video and coaching points. You couldn't go onto YouTube and get all 22 with breakdowns on every play. You couldn't get in game breakdowns from twitter gurus.
TFS gives you the HC/OC the ability to quickly and easily get EVERYONE in your program on the exact same page using the exact same language. It's a tool that you can use to coach your coaches. You can walk into a program and take coaches from various backgrounds and say this is how we run this offense and get them up to speed. It's an amazing teaching tool because you can load everything up for the kids as well.
Used it in five different schools in two states with positive results.
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Post by morris on Jan 4, 2024 21:18:14 GMT -6
Tony Franklin system is just the Air Raid with his own terminology Also he refers to it as "The System" which is as egotistical as it gets He had to change the name due to NCAA rules I believe. |
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Post by vicvinegar on Jan 6, 2024 10:48:37 GMT -6
If anyone has used both, I'd be curious to know how it compares to Joe Daniel's Pistol Power Offense.
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Post by morris on Jan 6, 2024 13:15:35 GMT -6
If anyone has used both, I'd be curious to know how it compares to Joe Daniel's Pistol Power Offense. They don’t compare really. The amount of resources and details in the TFS is much more than Joe Daniel’s. |
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Jan 6, 2024 13:35:08 GMT -6
If anyone has used both, I'd be curious to know how it compares to Joe Daniel's Pistol Power Offense. No comparison. Like I and others have said before- you could give the resources in the TFS to any schmuck and give them the tools to learn how to coach things how you want. The pass pro and screen technique is worth the price alone I would say |
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osceola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
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Post by osceola on Jan 25, 2024 9:00:47 GMT -6
Anyone have powerpoints/documents of this stuff to share?
coachjj76@gmail.com
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Post by brophy on Jan 25, 2024 9:47:15 GMT -6
The "Tony Franklin System" is probably a misnomer at this point. It was applicable in 2004, maybe, but since then its more of "Tao of Tony", which is to say in the most flattering of ways a complete and total enlightenment to football. I say this, because its always been about finding what works for the team you have this season. There is a foundation of concepts, but where you end up when the season starts all depends on what your team gravitates toward. It could be 5 wide, it could be 3 back.....clients have spawned a different types of flavor variations but it all seamlessly connected. The TFS is a way of operating (tao) more than it is a playbook.
The "plays" comprise 5% of what the TFS purchase is.
If you're not taking part in the weekly calls, have your entire staff speaking the same language and on the same page Day 1 of camp, be fully indoctrinated in how to conduct practice segments, break down opponents, game day communication, etc.... i'm not sure WHAT you're reviewing as "TFS".
Its more than "here's how to run Stick". Its the coaching minutiae involved, the development off it, the complimentary RPO, screens and runs from it, the mountains of game film available to you on it.....
The one thing Tony can be credited for is seeing the pitfalls of a 'system' (no different than your iPhone, or Whirlpool Refridgerator) is consolidating the product with operationalized language. Everyone's iPhone experience is exactly the same because it makes troubleshooting them (customer support) extremely simple. You don't diverge much from "the path" it makes it so much easier for any other client to help you out because you speak the same language.
I recall after 2013, he had branched off into teaching special teams and defense, too.
Now that he's fully retired from coaching, his CURRENT campaign is to develop career coaches, promising interviews with DI or NFL teams (for the cost of the total system).
If you spend whatever TFS goes for today just for a playbook, you only have to blame yourself for being 'duped'.
If you don't need a comprehensive system of HOW TO BE A FOOTBALL COACH, then I'd say you're pretty lucky and have a great staff.
If you are running a program and don't have the time,energy,resources to drag the donkeys your district hired as "assistant coaches" to become actual COACHES, then this is a pretty sound investment. It gets your staff of 30 year vets, first year volunteers, on-staff basketball coaches in it for the stipend all up to speed, on the same page, in one weekend. Whats THAT worth to you?
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 21, 2024 11:41:45 GMT -6
If anyone has used both, I'd be curious to know how it compares to Joe Daniel's Pistol Power Offense. Do you use JD Pistol Power offense? |
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 21, 2024 11:49:14 GMT -6
The "Tony Franklin System" is probably a misnomer at this point. It was applicable in 2004, maybe, but since then its more of "Tao of Tony", which is to say in the most flattering of ways a complete and total enlightenment to football. I say this, because its always been about finding what works for the team you have this season. There is a foundation of concepts, but where you end up when the season starts all depends on what your team gravitates toward. It could be 5 wide, it could be 3 back.....clients have spawned a different types of flavor variations but it all seamlessly connected. The TFS is a way of operating (tao) more than it is a playbook. The "plays" comprise 5% of what the TFS purchase is. If you're not taking part in the weekly calls, have your entire staff speaking the same language and on the same page Day 1 of camp, be fully indoctrinated in how to conduct practice segments, break down opponents, game day communication, etc.... i'm not sure WHAT you're reviewing as "TFS". Its more than "here's how to run Stick". Its the coaching minutiae involved, the development off it, the complimentary RPO, screens and runs from it, the mountains of game film available to you on it..... The one thing Tony can be credited for is seeing the pitfalls of a 'system' (no different than your iPhone, or Whirlpool Refridgerator) is consolidating the product with operationalized language. Everyone's iPhone experience is exactly the same because it makes troubleshooting them (customer support) extremely simple. You don't diverge much from "the path" it makes it so much easier for any other client to help you out because you speak the same language. I recall after 2013, he had branched off into teaching special teams and defense, too. Now that he's fully retired from coaching, his CURRENT campaign is to develop career coaches, promising interviews with DI or NFL teams (for the cost of the total system). If you spend whatever TFS goes for today just for a playbook, you only have to blame yourself for being 'duped'. If you don't need a comprehensive system of HOW TO BE A FOOTBALL COACH, then I'd say you're pretty lucky and have a great staff. If you are running a program and don't have the time,energy,resources to drag the donkeys your district hired as "assistant coaches" to become actual COACHES, then this is a pretty sound investment. It gets your staff of 30 year vets, first year volunteers, on-staff basketball coaches in it for the stipend all up to speed, on the same page, in one weekend. Whats THAT worth to you? This ^^^ Every stinking word of it! In fact, this goes for virtually any system you purchase. Playbooks are cheap/free and easy to find. A system that helps you undertand how to practice, impliment, and evolve the system is far different than a playbook Hell, Air Raid plays are all over the net. Hoover's TF/Air Raid playbook is free online. The coaches I know that poo poo TFS are guys that have coached a long time, and have acquired a base of knowledge from other coaches that they are comfortable with and married to. No coach I ever met "just played football, then was able to coach". Everybody learns from another coach. Not all coaches are fortunate enough to work under good football coaches to acquire a good base of knowledge, and some coaches are looking for something to revamp or hit the rest button on for new found motivation or way of doing things. I'm sure TFS isn't for everyone, but it's pretty far from being a scam. |
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 21, 2024 13:33:46 GMT -6
If anyone has used both, I'd be curious to know how it compares to Joe Daniel's Pistol Power Offense. I Was a TF system client for several years, 2008-2012. I'm currently a client of at JDFB because my DC referred me to his youtube vids to understand how he does things when I first came on last summer. (My DC is really a basketball coach...we are a small school in AL). His Defense is sort of cobbled together from clinics and stuff he thinks is cool. He calls it a 33 stack, but we are almost never in that.) Anyway, I'm a volunteer, and I coach DL. So, I bought JDFB to look at it all. I think his philosophy is solid probably because it matches mine, which is another reason I bought it. Coach Simple/Play Fast/Win. I'm a coach that thinks you can win without having to "surprise" the other team with stuff they haven't seen on film. I like to get good at something, have a couple of answers for things we might see, and have the kids playing/reacting, not thinking. I want to take away what you do best, and force you to score in ways you don't normally score. If you beat us running your plan B and C stuff, or stuff you draw up at half time, you win. If you got a stud that can take over a game, my experience is that you can beat that will sound defense. JDFB is that, at least on the Defensive side of the ball. His 3-4, 4-2, and 3-3 are all essentially the same defense. I haven't looked at the 4-3, but suspect it's similar. It's all the same 6 responsible for a-c gaps, with overhangs playing force if you're not using split field coverages. It's very simple stuff. Cover 3, Cover 1, Cover 0 for blitzing. He has some split field stuff that I've listened to a little, but we don't need that nor have the time to coach it. I suspect it's sound enough. I'm sure JDFB does some stuff that some seasoned D coaches would poo poo. But it's gap sound, and the coverage seems sound enough, especially for run heavy leagues like I coach in. His offense is nothing you've not seen anywhere. It gives you a terminology system to create any formation, motion, or shift you want. The run plays are Power, Counter, IZ, OZ, and Truck Toss (Essentially Rocket). The terminology gives you the ability to add others such as Buck, Trap, or Belly for instance, but he doesn't teach those. His passes are simple every day concepts, of which I think he says he carries, at any time, about 5, and he talks about and coaches you on different protections for you to choose from: half slide, full slide, BOB and Vertical Set. He explains execution and techniques that he says have worked for him. It seems solid enough from what I've seen so far. IMHO, it's great stuff for someone who wants a complete resources for offense and defense along with how to coach each position to make it work. If, like others explained here about the TFS, you wanted a resource to get your entire staff on the same page, speaking the same language, with videos to show how to run the base drills, it's spot on for that. The Weakness, if there is one, is it's probably a little too base/simple for top level HS ball at least on the D side. I mean against teams that can and do sling it around the park, and have coaches that can see and take advantage of anything you're giving them. That said, if you had competitive athletes, and coached it up, you'd probably be successful. At our level of ball, 1A Alabama HS ball, it's perfect, and I intend to try and ease our staff towards using it all. I've coached 1A private school, and public school 1A, 4A, 6A and 7A ball in AL. JDFB systems would be very solid up to at least 4A ball in our state. At the very least, I'm pressing my HC and DC to use the Defensive resources of JDFB in total. Our OC runs about as coherent and balanced an offense as I've seen at any HS level and I don't think he needs to change it, but do believe our OL coach could use the OL coaching system. |
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Post by brophy on Feb 22, 2024 7:53:19 GMT -6
I'm a volunteer, I coach DL. I bought JDFB your program isn't running JDFB, thought right? No one else on staff has seen the JDFB stuff you've purchased? Another aside for "the system" is if I were a basketball assistant (and I know NOTHING about basketball) and my head coach got the staff together to digest "Lebron James Basketball System 2019" to take me from soup to nuts about how to coach basketball, I could see being a little inspired to mature and be a better coach if the teaching has Meadowlark Lemon breaking down the importance of inside leverage in the post when setting a triangle pick on fast break going into half. The pace / expectation has been illustrated for me as a coach and I would be compelled to match it (" Oh THAT's what a coach does....I guess me eating nachos during the game with a whistle around my neck wont cut it anymore"). THAT is what a system should offer (make the staff better all the way around). |
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Post by brophy on Feb 22, 2024 8:16:36 GMT -6
One other thing, that I'm sure is lost in this age of technology, but I remember when you actually went to visit program's or invite other staffs to come to your program for a weekend and CLINIC your entire staff on how to run XYZ. Is that not exactly what "the system" is?
Is it a sham to have Bob Reade or Vic Boblett come to your staff and go over all the successful nuances of running a wing-t program?
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Post by vicvinegar on Feb 22, 2024 8:25:11 GMT -6
If anyone has used both, I'd be curious to know how it compares to Joe Daniel's Pistol Power Offense. Do you use JD Pistol Power offense? No. I interviewed for a HC position and made it down to the final two. I have been a DC for multiple years now. I felt comfortable going in and teaching my defense to the entire staff. I've never coached offense. I've either been the DC or at a two platoon program. I was needing something I could install that would help guide me and to teach to my staff. I like JD's philosophy, but was unsure if it was detailed enough for what I was wanting to do. It's a moot point, I didn't get the job. The AD said while everyone on the panel was very impressed with me (not to brag, but I killed the interview), they decided it was best if they went with someone local (I'm was a outsider). I do plan on using one of these systems if/when I take a HC position. |
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Post by Coach JR on Feb 22, 2024 9:12:19 GMT -6
I'm a volunteer, I coach DL. I bought JDFB your program isn't running JDFB, thought right? No one else on staff has seen the JDFB stuff you've purchased? Another aside for "the system" is if I were a basketball assistant (and I know NOTHING about basketball) and my head coach got the staff together to digest "Lebron James Basketball System 2019" to take me from soup to nuts about how to coach basketball, I could see being a little inspired to mature and be a better coach if the teaching has Meadowlark Lemon breaking down the importance of inside leverage in the post when setting a triangle pick on fast break going into half. The pace / expectation has been illustrated for me as a coach and I would be compelled to match it (" Oh THAT's what a coach does....I guess me eating nachos during the game with a whistle around my neck wont cut it anymore"). THAT is what a system should offer (make the staff better all the way around). When I came on board the DC referred me to JDFB YouTube vids. I watched them. I purchased JDFB after the season. I intend to try and sell the defense as a whole to the HC. At the very least, I can use the DL and LB drills. The HC coaches LBs during part of Indy time but I get them for a run fits period. I’ve had some discussions with the HC about our coverage package. He agreed we need to simplify it. If you’re wondering? Yes, I step out of my lane. I’m respectful and I run what I’m told and coach hard but I can’t sit by and watch our DC try and coach pattern reading coverage and all manner of confusing calls to our D because he heard them at a clinic or because Saban runs it. Early on I asked him about our calls to get on the same page. I sled him what does a certain call mean. He replied “it’s like Saban’s Rip/Liz cover 3.” He thinks that sh1t is cool but our kids get confused at times and we simply don’t need it nor do we have time to coach it. My attitude is I want to be a great defense and win. The worst that can happen is the HC fires me from my volunteer job. |
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Post by planck on Feb 23, 2024 11:45:05 GMT -6
I guess tangentially related, but I can vouch for the Big O system. We've run it for 2 years and averaged over 40 ppg and lead the state in passing both years. After year 1, we graduated our top 4 receivers. Year 2, our top 2 lead the state.
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