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Post by silkyice on Nov 1, 2023 11:08:55 GMT -6
In general, 90% of all players will be perform, compete, and be “tough enough”, if they 1) get as strong and fast as they can 2) get in shape 3) know what to do 4) and know how to do it Take any of those 4 away and you start to run into major problems. This also. Graduate level "this" I have literally never made my team do anything for "toughness". Playing football is tough enough. In fact, I try and streamline things to make them more efficient. Now while that sounds like it has nothing to do with toughness, that means we workout twice a week for 30 minutes. That means that I am looking for results instead of arbitrary things like toughness. I want to get kids strong, faster, and in shape. I want them to know what the heck we are doing on the field and how to do it. Gut checks, toughness drills, etc, just aren't what I am interested in. I think our teams have been pretty damn tough and physical over the years. I will stand by my four things up top. Think about what you would want out of coach. Would you want to do these "toughness" drills OR get strong and fast, in shape, and execute? I realize those things aren't mutually exclusive, but if toughness is running 5 400m sprints, count me the F out. Why not 10 800m sprints? or a marathon or a 100 miler? Why not insane crossfit workouts? Those all take a huge amount of mental toughness. So much, that I AM NOT GOING TO DO THOSE THINGS. Because I don't want to. But if I had another football season left in me, get me strong, fast, in shape (for football), and make sure I know what to do and when to do it, and I promise, I will compete my ass off. |
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Post by blb on Nov 1, 2023 11:23:47 GMT -6
Some of it you can have fun with. Do some kind of competition where they do something hard. They really get into that. Fat boy fades You'd be surprised how hard you can get a big ol' line man to sprint 60 yards if catching a football is at the end of it. I did "Arch Drill" with entire team every so often at the end of practice. OL weren't exactly sprinting 60 yards but they had to run as fast as they could for say 30-40 and try to be an athlete at the end. Once to the right, once to the left. Meanwhile QBs are getting work on throwing deep balls. Another thing I did was "One-Man" Pursuit Drill. BC lines up just inside SL on +40. Tackler lines up on hash mark on +35. On coach's command BC takes off straight (no cuts) for EZ. Tackler has to run just behind BC (NO contact) before he crosses GL. Obviously you pair up Linemen vs. Linemen. Each kid got to be BC-tackler once to right side of the field, once to the left. Not only a little conditioning, teaching Pursuit Angle, but second effort as well. In Arch Drill Linemen got to be receivers, in One-Man Pursuit Drill they got to carry the rock. "Concealed running" - football-related and hopefully a little fun. |
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Post by carookie on Nov 1, 2023 13:34:31 GMT -6
I'm still confused by what is being meant here by "tough".
Does tough mean strong and physically imposing? Or does tough mean continuing to do something required of you even though it is difficult- in this case some sort of physical collision?
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Post by cwaltsmith on Nov 1, 2023 13:46:39 GMT -6
I'm still confused by what is being meant here by "tough". Does tough mean strong and physically imposing? Or does tough mean continuing to do something required of you even though it is difficult- in this case some sort of physical collision? I agree... "toughness" needs to be defined. I consider a kid to be tough based on things like willingness to battle when he knows hes gonna lose some... or willingness to endure pain if it leads to gratification in future. Just because a kid is strong does not mean he's tough in my opinion. I think strength helps because your body is built to not be given as much pain, but I have had some really tough dudes not be able to bench or squat. Vice versa, I have had some muscle dudes be soft on the field. |
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Post by blb on Nov 1, 2023 14:27:22 GMT -6
I'm still confused by what is being meant here by "tough". Does tough mean strong and physically imposing? Or does tough mean continuing to do something required of you even though it is difficult- in this case some sort of physical collision? I agree... "toughness" needs to be defined. I consider a kid to be tough based on things like willingness to battle when he knows hes gonna lose some... or willingness to endure pain if it leads to gratification in future. Just because a kid is strong does not mean he's tough in my opinion. I think strength helps because your body is built to not be given as much pain, but I have had some really tough dudes not be able to bench or squat. Vice versa, I have had some muscle dudes be soft on the field. I would say being "tough" is doing what you need to do, when you need to do it, to the best of your abilities, every time. Especially in the face of adversity. In the example of HS football strength training, conditioning, drill work, demanding practices can obviously help them learn how to be able to do that. Including Commitment, Self-Discipline, team work. Which when faced with real adversity in real life could help them deal with it successfully. Otherwise we're just teaching them how to block and tackle. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Nov 1, 2023 16:52:03 GMT -6
we were not as mentally or physically tough Every aspect of who we are is: 50% DNA 10% Parenting/Experience ages 0-2 weighing heavier than 2-6, but 0-6 being the target window 40% Choice Mental Toughness is a task-specific response to duress. You weren't physically tough? Give us some details You weren't mentally tough? Give us some details If you do Marines training with HS FB players and they still false start on 4th and 2 with the game on the line, are they mentally tough? What about forgetting your assignment? What about doing someone else's job when you are then ignoring your own? What about getting ISS for vaping the week of a big game? So what do you believe impacts player Choice on an external level? Only thing I've ever seen is playing time. What do you believe impacts player Choice on an internal level? Probably something out of a coach's control. Our job as coaches (S&C or sport) is to create opportunities for success. What makes a great tackler? Technique and confidence. What makes a great blocker? Technique and confidence. What makes a great HSFB team? Talent (born) + Skill (learned). |
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Post by carookie on Nov 1, 2023 18:37:09 GMT -6
we were not as mentally or physically tough Every aspect of who we are is: 50% DNA
10% Parenting/Experience ages 0-2 weighing heavier than 2-6, but 0-6 being the target window
40% Choice Mental Toughness is a task-specific response to duress. You weren't physically tough? Give us some details You weren't mentally tough? Give us some details If you do Marines training with HS FB players and they still false start on 4th and 2 with the game on the line, are they mentally tough? What about forgetting your assignment? What about doing someone else's job when you are then ignoring your own? What about getting ISS for vaping the week of a big game? So what do you believe impacts player Choice on an external level? Only thing I've ever seen is playing time. What do you believe impacts player Choice on an internal level? Probably something out of a coach's control. Our job as coaches (S&C or sport) is to create opportunities for success. What makes a great tackler? Technique and confidence. What makes a great blocker? Technique and confidence. What makes a great HSFB team? Talent (born) + Skill (learned). I don't mean to pirate the thread at all, but I always enjoy discussing the bolded part. That 40% you label as "choice" I would argue is often determined by the other two. In other words the choices you make are often determined by how you were raised and your DNA. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Nov 2, 2023 5:04:49 GMT -6
Every aspect of who we are is: 50% DNA
10% Parenting/Experience ages 0-2 weighing heavier than 2-6, but 0-6 being the target window
40% Choice I don't mean to pirate the thread at all, but I always enjoy discussing the bolded part. That 40% you label as "choice" I would argue is often determined by the other two. In other words the choices you make are often determined by how you were raised and your DNA. I've gone back and forth on that same idea a lot. I've taught two kids where their dad got their mom deported, then he ran off with his girlfriend and left the kids behind. They still made A's and B's coming in with no food or water and sneaking into the PE locker room to shower (until we found out and got them into a foster care system). I've taught a young lady who was raped by her real father and found her sister who died by suicide, and after rehab made A's and B's and placed at districts in track- after he was some how released from prison after only serving ~36 months. Some people make excuses, others overcome reasons. Is that Grit in their DNA at 50%? Yes. Is that Grit shown in some modeling? Yeah at 10%. But 40% is a Choice. |
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 2, 2023 6:55:49 GMT -6
Weight Room.
Then also working with them to develop a culture and a "why". When you love something you are tough for it. When you are invested and care about something and somebody tries to take that from you, you fight for it.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Nov 2, 2023 8:07:43 GMT -6
I don't mean to pirate the thread at all, but I always enjoy discussing the bolded part. That 40% you label as "choice" I would argue is often determined by the other two. In other words the choices you make are often determined by how you were raised and your DNA. I've gone back and forth on that same idea a lot. I've taught two kids where their dad got their mom deported, then he ran off with his girlfriend and left the kids behind. They still made A's and B's coming in with no food or water and sneaking into the PE locker room to shower (until we found out and got them into a foster care system). I've taught a young lady who was raped by her real father and found her sister who died by suicide, and after rehab made A's and B's and placed at districts in track- after he was some how released from prison after only serving ~36 months. Some people make excuses, others overcome reasons. Is that Grit in their DNA at 50%? Yes. Is that Grit shown in some modeling? Yeah at 10%. But 40% is a Choice. agree.. but I believe their raising helped them do those things by motivating them to change their family tree. We should not let them make excuses bc too many kids have overcame those situations. However, it does explain why some don't... from my experience, a kid in a bad situation... either becomes that situation or they become a complete 180 of it. |
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Post by veerman on Nov 2, 2023 9:29:47 GMT -6
As far as a football aspect of toughness I break it down into mental and physical. Physical IMO can be associated with coming off the ball hard and making hard contact with the opponent, or going in for a tackle hard. Mental can be associated with what gets you no longer focused on the task at hand. They combine when it comes to pain tolerance, physically everyone is playing in pain after week 3, so to what extent does it effect you mentally where you can no longer focus on the task at hand.
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 2, 2023 10:08:02 GMT -6
Pain tolerance. For sure.
What are you willing to endure?
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Post by blb on Nov 2, 2023 10:12:39 GMT -6
I told kids that from first day of practice until after last game they were going to be sore and tired.
Being in great physical condition and having done what it takes to get there would help them deal with it and be able to be successful individually and as a team.
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Post by carookie on Nov 2, 2023 13:32:15 GMT -6
I don't mean to pirate the thread at all, but I always enjoy discussing the bolded part. That 40% you label as "choice" I would argue is often determined by the other two. In other words the choices you make are often determined by how you were raised and your DNA. I've gone back and forth on that same idea a lot. I've taught two kids where their dad got their mom deported, then he ran off with his girlfriend and left the kids behind. They still made A's and B's coming in with no food or water and sneaking into the PE locker room to shower (until we found out and got them into a foster care system). I've taught a young lady who was raped by her real father and found her sister who died by suicide, and after rehab made A's and B's and placed at districts in track- after he was some how released from prison after only serving ~36 months. Some people make excuses, others overcome reasons. Is that Grit in their DNA at 50%? Yes. Is that Grit shown in some modeling? Yeah at 10%. But 40% is a Choice. Malcolm Gladwell's "David and Goliath" does a good job of addressing this in some of its chapters. If you haven't already read it I'd recommend. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Nov 2, 2023 13:32:52 GMT -6
I've gone back and forth on that same idea a lot. I've taught two kids where their dad got their mom deported, then he ran off with his girlfriend and left the kids behind. They still made A's and B's coming in with no food or water and sneaking into the PE locker room to shower (until we found out and got them into a foster care system). I've taught a young lady who was raped by her real father and found her sister who died by suicide, and after rehab made A's and B's and placed at districts in track- after he was some how released from prison after only serving ~36 months. Some people make excuses, others overcome reasons. Is that Grit in their DNA at 50%? Yes. Is that Grit shown in some modeling? Yeah at 10%. But 40% is a Choice. Malcolm Gladwell's "David and Goliath" does a good job of addressing this in some of its chapters. If you haven't already read it I'd recommend. Thanks! |
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Post by hornetfan63 on Nov 12, 2023 0:11:57 GMT -6
As an OL player and coach, I always thought the lines along with the backs and the LBs set a tone for this. When I started coaching and realized that every team didn't have their lineman get in the chutes and get after it Mon-Wed, I realized why my high school (best program in the state in the 90s, 4 titles and a runner up) won so many games in the 3rd and early 4th quarter, just beating people into submission. We got after it in team too a couple times per week. Too many teams back off now and don't hit and tackle at practice. That being said, I coached a team that won it all and was loaded, and we had to back off or they would kill each other, so it is possible to be physical without getting after it everyday at practice. However, most schools don't have this problem. I thought we got after it and were about to kill each other in practice each week and we lost in the first round. That was one of the few years we were two platooned at a small school. Defiantly thought we got our best look that year. We threw the ball 70% of the time that year so it was good on good pass rush everyday during team. |
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Post by CoachF on Nov 12, 2023 16:12:31 GMT -6
I'll answer this question the same way I always answer it- Weight. Room. This has been my biggest headache at new place…to compete and be mentally/physically tough, you have to lift and get that opportunity daily and weekly at doing tough things. |
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Post by brophy on Nov 12, 2023 17:13:12 GMT -6
"Toughness" isn't be calloused enough that you can take physical punishment.
"Toughness" that we're after is MENTAL TOUGHNESS to be committed to a lofty objective, bigger than your immediate personal achievement. This is only evidenced in the milieu of tremendous adversity when everything around you is telling you to give up. Its more than not giving up, its more than having a strong desire to 'win'.
*its about knowingly sacrificing yourself to obtain the rare knowledge of success.
Success is a habit. That habit is the WEIGHT ROOM.
* whether its Jacob wrestling with God or Odin gouging out his own eye, there is a PRICE to be paid for what you desire. Get +11 kids to do that and you have a TEAM, regardless of atheleticism (though it really helps)
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Post by dwbish67 on Nov 19, 2023 18:35:45 GMT -6
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Post by mariner42 on Nov 20, 2023 6:50:03 GMT -6
We had 2 really really good back to back seasons. This past season was not very good. We were inexperienced at spots but overall we felt we were not as mentally or physically tough as years past. Just trying to generate ideas to develop toughness this off-season (goal is always to have kids in other sports) for those not in sports. I know Twitter gurus blow up about the word “toughness” but I believe football will always require it. Define it with a concrete example where you felt your team was lacking. My point with this is pretty simple: when football coaches talk about toughness, it's often vague, non-specific, and/or poorly defined, so there's no real objective to work backwards from. For some it's about getting the sh!t beat out of you, for others it's about mentally persevering, others it's something else entirely. You can talk about it all you want, but until you define it in a way that actually identifies what it is you're looking for, it's all just hot air. As with many topics, I'm with silkyice, btw. |
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Post by mariner42 on Nov 20, 2023 6:51:16 GMT -6
"Toughness" isn't be calloused enough that you can take physical punishment. "Toughness" that we're after is MENTAL TOUGHNESS to be committed to a lofty objective, bigger than your immediate personal achievement. This is only evidenced in the milieu of tremendous adversity when everything around you is telling you to give up. Its more than not giving up, its more than having a strong desire to 'win'. *its about knowingly sacrificing yourself to obtain the rare knowledge of success. Success is a habit. That habit is the WEIGHT ROOM. * whether its Jacob wrestling with God or Odin gouging out his own eye, there is a PRICE to be paid for what you desire. Get +11 kids to do that and you have a TEAM, regardless of atheleticism (though it really helps) THE MAN! Now we just need to get DCOhio and Vass back and we can have a ~2007 reunion. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 20, 2023 7:15:55 GMT -6
after he was some how released from prison after only serving ~36 months. I don't know what state you're in, but after my time as a Correctional Counselor I, I can tell you those sorts of cases are usually 50% cases which means he's only going to serve 50% of his sentence off the top. Throw in good time received for completing programs, school, drug treatment, jobs, etc and 3 years is actually a pretty lengthy time for that sort of crime. |
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Post by chadavan on Nov 20, 2023 8:56:40 GMT -6
I am watching a show on Hulu about the Navy Seals. One of the things a drill sergeant mentioned: you can build physical toughness, but mental toughness can't be taught.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Nov 20, 2023 14:46:29 GMT -6
after he was some how released from prison after only serving ~36 months. I don't know what state you're in, but after my time as a Correctional Counselor I, I can tell you those sorts of cases are usually 50% cases which means he's only going to serve 50% of his sentence off the top. Throw in good time received for completing programs, school, drug treatment, jobs, etc and 3 years is actually a pretty lengthy time for that sort of crime. Disheartening that you can abuse both of your own daughters for a decade, one dies by suicide, and you get 3 years as a "long" sentence. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 20, 2023 16:40:03 GMT -6
I don't know what state you're in, but after my time as a Correctional Counselor I, I can tell you those sorts of cases are usually 50% cases which means he's only going to serve 50% of his sentence off the top. Throw in good time received for completing programs, school, drug treatment, jobs, etc and 3 years is actually a pretty lengthy time for that sort of crime. Disheartening that you can abuse both of your own daughters for a decade, one dies by suicide, and you get 3 years as a "long" sentence. Don't disagree, but it's the "new world" we live in. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 20, 2023 16:40:52 GMT -6
I am watching a show on Hulu about the Navy Seals. One of the things a drill sergeant mentioned: you can build physical toughness, but mental toughness can't be taught. You can't teach it, but I think you can give kids opportunities to learn it through actions. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Nov 20, 2023 18:13:25 GMT -6
I am watching a show on Hulu about the Navy Seals. One of the things a drill sergeant mentioned: you can build physical toughness, but mental toughness can't be taught. You can't teach it, but I think you can give kids opportunities to learn it through actions. 'teach it', 'learn it' 2 sides of the same coin |
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Post by fantom on Nov 20, 2023 18:32:22 GMT -6
I am watching a show on Hulu about the Navy Seals. One of the things a drill sergeant mentioned: you can build physical toughness, but mental toughness can't be taught. You can't teach it, but I think you can give kids opportunities to learn it through actions. I think it can be developed through peer pressure and experience. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 20, 2023 18:34:49 GMT -6
You can't teach it, but I think you can give kids opportunities to learn it through actions. 'teach it', 'learn it' 2 sides of the same coin Agreed. I mean teaching as in telling. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Nov 23, 2023 19:56:04 GMT -6
Mental Toughness is confidence. How do you create that? Whatever is your best way do it.
Do you have a system for forgetting mistakes.
Do you reward Effort? Finish?
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